Re: Turkey #general

Lalita Claff <lalita@...>

Leslie Reich questioned what a tradition about eating turkey has to do with
Part of my search in this area (as I'm sure it is for most of us) is to
build up a personal and emotional picture of my ancestors, not just the
statistics of name etc.
I'm trying to piece together a picture of who my family were - not just a
members list.

I had totally forgotten about Turkey being considered non-kosher in my
parent's home until Yehuda Horowitz asked the question. Leslie's response
gave me an "ahaa!" feeling.

In my family home in Manchester, turkey was considered non-kosher. However
when we came to Australia, I found people here were fine about eating
turkey and we were different in that respect.
My father always talked about how ultra-orthodox his grandparents
were. Thanks to both of you for bringing a little more consciousness to my

I would also like to know if there were certain areas where that was a
custom (it may help me trace where my g-grandfather came from.
Warm Regards
Liora (Lesley) Claff

I am not quite sure what this has to do with Genealogy but since it's almost
Purim, I trust the Moderator will let me briefy talk turkey.

There is an halachic problem regarding Turkey consumption. Since the Torah
only lists "unclean" birds, we need to be able to identify *all* of them in
order to exclude the unlisted when presented with a fowl of unknown
provenance. There are certain physical attributes listed in the Talmud to
distinguish between the Kosher and non-Kosher, but these are not easy to

Turkeys (a name once used for guinea-fowl) arrived in Europe >from the
Western Hemisphere (possibly by way of the Country) only a few centuries ago
(but after the times of the Shelah). Although they are clearly not birds of
prey (one of the listed requirements for Kashrus) they arrived without
tradition or provenance.

The rabbinic literature, which referes to them as Tarnegol Hodu - Indian
rooster, discusses the topic and not all authorities (see Darkay Tshuva on
Yoreh Deah) were prepared to add this creature to the approved ro(o)ster.
Some frum people manage without.

Leslie Reich Manchester

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