Re: Jewish or English? #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>

< hekenvin@... > wrote:

This message was posted on jewishgen:

"Tell me, would the Jews in England, whether they had been their for a couple of
centuries or not.....If they came to America, say in 1700's, would they have been
considered English or Jewish, as far as records were concerned or as far as their
descendents were concerned?"

The emigres would be considered English people of the Jewish faith.

Judaism is a religion. Some would say it is a culture or a way of life; but it
is not a nationality.
See this article on The
Middle Colonies as the Birthplace of American Religious Pluralism
by Prof Patricia U. Bonomi of New York State University.

It says that these colonies brought settlers >from the areas of Europe that
had been deeply disrupted by the Protestant Reformation.

Unlike England, the borders of these States would have been changed
continuously (I think) by these ructions.

I used to work on the ethnic minorities in London. There were successive
arrivals of Huegenots, Jews, Irish and now South Asians (of various
religions) (Indians, Pakistanis and Banglandeshis).

Some of these descriptions are religious (Jews and Huegenots - which only
came >from France).

Irish was prior to earlier in the last century a geographic location and not
a national location - of course, it was a euphemism for Catholic.

If we go back to the American situation, before 1871 Germany didn't exist
and probably most of the other European nation states didn't exist.

Given that the population of the American colonies were generally fleeing
religious persecution they were also likely to be thought of as belonging to
the religious community to which they belonged, much as the Jews would have

Anyway the number of Jews in North America in the Eighteenth Century was
miniscule. They had only arrived back in England in 1656 after all - they
weren't going to be getting on the plane a generation later, as happens

England was only united with Scotland under the British Crown in 1601.
Ireland was only included in 1801 (I think). So I suspect that the term
British was a political one which specifically referred to the Crown, the
Government or its agents, after all in those days many soldiers were
mercenaries anyway.

If we look at Wikipedia it says that it
refers to the Kingdom of Great Britain 1707 to 1801 and people >from there.

It also says that it refers to the people with allegiance to the British
(a school website) specifically refers to the Quakers and the
Pennsylvania-Dutch, and Scotch-Irish settlements.

William Penn is described as a Quaker.

The Pilgrim Fathers were, after all, a branch of the Puritans.

I gather there were people who were actually banned >from Puritan colonies
(presumably because of their beliefs!).

The school website refers to both the British and English army. The
Americans are either Americans or patriots.

In this article about the Middle Colonies
a list of the colonists includes Dutch Calvinists, Scandinavian Lutherans,
German Baptists, Swiss Pietists, Welsh Quakers, French Huguenots, Scots
Presbyterians - note the linkage of geographic area and religion.
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)

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