Thank you for input on Schepsel/Yosef VOGEL #general

Toby Bird

Thank you all who weighed in privately and publicly on the likelihood that
Schepsel and Yosef might be the same person and whether it's likely that
Solomon Vogel/Fogal is the brother of my husband's grandfather Samuel Bird
and Samuel's brothers Max and Marcus Bird.

There was no concensus on that point but there was a lively and interesting
discussion. Along with others who responded I agree that the next step is to
see birth/marriage/death certificates for the father and sons and what's
inscribed on their headstones in order to compare names.

Marcus, buried in Leeds, is the one whose father is named as Yosef on a
memorial document provided to me by his grandson. According to Jewishgen,
brother, Max Bird is buried in Riddrie Cemetery in Glasgow - no plot numbers

I do not have a burial plot for my husband's grandfather, Samuel Bird, who
died in 1912. But Ancestry lists his death in 1912 in Nottingham. I know
that is the right Samuel Bird. The dates are right and my father-in-law was
born in Nottingham. Does anyone out there reading this know of a likely
Jewish cemetery in that area where he might be buried?

In the 1901 census Solomon Vogel "the perhaps brother" (which becomes Fogal
by 1911) has a father named Schepsel living with him. There is no grave site
listed for Solomon Fogal,, although Jewishgen lists a headstone for his wife,
Fanny, who pre-deceased him ("mourned by Solomon" on the stone) and there's
a headstone for someone named Israel Fogal whose dates are compatible with
his oldest son listed as Isadore on secular documents like the census. Both
Fanny and Isadore are buried in Edmonton Cemetery in London.

Ancestry has a death listed for a Solomon Fogal whose dates are compatible.
The death index lists him as having died in 1941 and lists his death as
registered in Biggleswade in the county of Bedfordshire. Is there anyone out
there reading this who knows of a Jewish cemetery in that vicinity? And have
a plausible theory as to how he might have ended up there? He was 72. His
wife died in 1919. Was there a Jewish community out there? I'm thinking
maybe he was living with one of his six children. Or maybe a second wife.

I am writing this >from New York and know nothing about Jewish cemeteries in
England. You might be interested to know that this inquiry about my husband's
family all started about six months ago when I was contacted by Stan Kaye
(not a relative) in England who is volunteering to help pay tribute to
soldiers who died during World War I. Stan Kaye had come across a marker,
but not a headstone, on the grave of one of Samuel's sons, my father-in-law's
brother, Solomon Bird, who died in 1917 at the age of 19 and is buried in
Pleshet Jewish Cemetery in London. Stan Kaye arranged with the Commonwealth
Veterans group to erect a headstone and they are going to have a consecration
ceremony this coming June. They asked him to find descendants and they found
us because Solomon Bird is on my tree. Stan was excited to have found us and
I was really pleased that family history can "pay off" in the present in
unlikely ways.

Since then I have re-connected with some Birds who we know and found one we
never knew about. I found his name and an old address through research on the
internet and Stan said he'd call the synagogue in that area (St. Johns Wood)
to see if they knew him and they did. I was really skeptical that that
process would produce results. He had been very active in the synagogue, and
they forwarded an e-mail >from Stan to him in Florida where he now lives. We
plan to attend this consecration ceremony as does this new-found relative in
Florida and are trying to find as many other Bird relatives as possible to
alert them (and to meet them).

Thanks for your patience in reading this long e-mail and any insights,
information, or suggestions,


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