WAGNER birth record 1819 Warsaw recorded 1824 for Izrael WAGNER 616, viewmate translation 63192 #poland


Judi Wagner
 

I would love some opinions on this birth record of Izrael Jacob WAGNER
born 1819, and it was recorded in 1824 in Warsaw, number 616, and
another record for a younger brother, Szlama born 1822 is also recorded
in 1824, number 617.

Our ggf Gecel ( Getzel or George) WAGNER was born in 1859 in Warsaw. We
had his birth record translated some time ago. His father was Izrael
WAGNER, and at the time of the recording of the birth in 1866, it says
Izrael was 41. So I figured he was born about 1825 or so. It also says
he was a trader in ironware.

Recently, the actual record, not just the index for Izrael WAGNER's
birth became available. I just put it up on Viewmate at #63192 and
before I knew it I had a translation >from Jonathan Michael Wien, and I
thank you again for the quick response, what a wonderful chanukah gift.

It says that Izrael Jacob was born in 1819 and it was recorded in 1824.
The father of Izrael Jacob is Izrael, and his father is Jacob, and
grandfather is Izrael.

Izrael's mother is Hinka and her father is Szlama. Both the parents of
Izrael are deceased. Possibly Izrael was a coachman. How cool is that?
WAGNER came >from waggoner, or wheel, so a coachman makes perfect sense.

So, my question is, is Izrael Jacob the father of Gecel? Gecel had 10
children. There is no Izrael, but there was a Jacob and a Szlama. No
Hinka, or Rochla, the wife of Izrael, or Sora, the mother of Rochla, or
Wulf, the father of Rochla.

What evidence should I be looking for? What will help us to determine
if this could be our family?

We do know that Gecel's father is Izrael >from his birth record.
It does not say Izrael Jacob. His birth record says his mother is Yetta
Kajla Hansfater (Herszenfuter) age 30. The father signs his name Izral
WAGNER.

I have been to the cemetery a few times, with boots, gloves and shears,
Mt Zion. The section, Judah-1 is so old there is NO map at the office.
I have been unable to find his grave, so I cannot see if his father's
hebrew name is Izrael Jacob.

Any suggestions for us on how to proceed?
Thanks as always for everyone's assistance,

Judi and Barry WAGNER
Florida and NYC
WAGNER, Warszawa

MODERATOR'S NOTE: For anyone who wants to look at the record referenced
above, it can be found at
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63207

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