Marriage in Odessa during the Civil War #ukraine


I refer to a posting dated 26 May 2012 by Phillis Kramer to JewishgenSIG,
re Solving a mystery :

.to answer your question we must speculate...then once we
think the speculation is true, try to validate it. Unquote

Phyliss speculated that a JGenner's GM's first marriage might have been rabbinical, not civil - possibly in "Russia"?? prior to emigration to the USA ??

For many years I have tried to establish when/where my late maternal GPs were married. It could have been in Odessa, or, possibly when my late GF was fighting during the civil war (after spending 3 years as a PoW of Germany/Austria). My GF was born in Odessa in 1894, as possibly were his parents. My GM was born in Libau in 1898, Lativa, as was her Father, who died in 1901, and her Mother was born in Vilna and her second husband and their blended family moved to Odessa about 1904. My late Mother (an only child) was born in Odessa in 1921 - I have her birth record obtained >from the Odessa Archives (via the late much missed Galina), but Galina could not locate my GPs' marriage record. Actually I do not have any information about my GGM's second marriage either!

My GPs emigrated to Canada in 1925 and 1926 (separately) and most of my GF's family perished in 1941/2. I have my GM's "Russian/Ukrainian" passport, and have found various documents relating to her emigration with my Mother in 1926 - Odessa-Libau-London-Montreal on the "Aussonia". I have not been able to find out much about my GF's earlier arrival >from the Canadian Archives, but know he also travelled on the "Aussonia".

My GPs were divorced in 1936 in Montreal, and I have my GM's Get document. However, I have not been able to find any record of her civil divorce in the Canadian archives. My GF remarried in Montreal about 1940 so, presumably there must have been some sort of civil record of his divorce? My GM remarried in Melbourne in 1944 - her second husband was a refugee/stateless person >from Vienna, who was interned in London and transported here on the infamous HMT DUNERA. So, presumably, there must have been some sort of civil record (other than her Get document), as evidence that she was previously married and divorced?

>from things my late Mother and GM discussed over the years, I understand my GM accompanied my GF during his
travels/combat during the civil war - presumably they were married then?

I have wondered if my GPs were actually married civilly in Odessa or wherever, or, perhaps were married by a Rabbi, with no civil ceremony?

Taking into consideration that they were probably married in 1919-1920 and my Mother was born in August 1921 in Odessa, and this was at the time of great upheaval, and a terrible viscious civil war, albeit under the Bolshevik Government, perhaps civil marriages, especially of soldiers in combat, might not have occurred, or even been mandated?

I am writing to ask if anyone has any knowledge or could speculate about that happened in Odessa, or the Ukraine, during the tumultuous civil war years re legislation or enforcement of marriage guidelines, both civilly and for Jewish marriages. Were Rabbinical marriages accepted alone, or did people also have to have a civil ceremony under the Communist Government? Or were things just such a mess then that perhaps civil marriages didn't happen or noone knew what was happening??

Would a rabbinical marriage have been recognised in Odessa, without a
civil endorsement? Would subsequent marriages of my GPs in Montreal
and Melbourne respectively have been allowed based on my GM's Get only?
In fact would the Get have been issued by the Rabbi in Montreal without
some documentation testifying the legality of my GPs' original marriage?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

Many thanks.
Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho, Downunder

Join to automatically receive all group messages.