JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:Re: Feigele doesn't fly as high as Tzipporah #general

Ury Link

Dear Genner's,
It is a good discussion about the name Feigele and I read it wit pleaser.
But I am not agree with the assumption that the name Feigele is derived
from the the Latin name Viola , ( or the Frence names Violletta , Fiola or
Viola , the English name Viola or the German name Viola, Veilchen).
I am agree that the name Viola was originally the Latin word Viola
(Violet), and later came to be associated with the flower name and with

According S.Salfeld in his book Das Martyrologium des Nurnberger
Memorbuches, Quelen zur geschichte der Juden in Deutschland, Berlin ,Simion
verlag 1898, the best book about names in the period between 1096
and 1375 he mention the next names : Tsipora 30 time Pora 5
times Porlin 11 times Vegele 1 time Bogelin (Vogelin) 1 time . We don't
find in this list any name that like on Viola or Viollette.

Tsipora is a Hebrew name and it mean a bird. Pora is a derivation >from the
name Tsipora ,Vegele and Bogelin is according S,Salfeld on page 417 of his
book a translation of Tsipora . The name Vegele is first mention in the
year 1349 in the city of Worms in Germany and also in the same time the
name Bogelin (Vogelin) in Nurnberg,Germany. Another source Paul Lewi in
his book Les Nome des Israelites en France , Paris 1960 on page 202 give
the next explanation " Vogel, Vogelin, Voegele and Feyele : a name of a
women and it mean a bird" and he find the first name Vogelin in Strasbourg
in the year 1334. He also don't mention the name Viola.

In my opinion the explanation of the name Vegele or Vogele etc... as a
derivation of Viola is not correct (in my opinion !) . I know what great
researcher write about this name ,but I think that the are a little in a
mistake,( and I have a lot of respect to the work of this great people) and
why ?

First what I said above, that the name Viola in not mention in Jewish
sources that I know before the end of the 14 century and not as Viola but
as Fayala and Fyola
see also Alexander Beider , Dictonary of Ashkenazic Given Mames, Avotaynu,
Bergenfield N.J 2001 on page 502.

Second ,the best way to understand why Fegele or Vogele is a bird and not a
the flower Violet (Viola) is to look on this schema of the development of
the name Tsipora:

Tsipora - Pora - Porlin - Pouerlin - Feurlin - Feuerle - Feuele
- Fayle - Fyola - and after this Viola.

Viola or Violet as a flower, is a name that Jewish women have used special
after the end of the 17 century as a influence of German and France names
and in the 19 century also as the influence of Verdi Opera La Traviata
,remember Violetta Valery as the beautiful girl in the story.
I think that the name Feigele or Vogele and all the variations in Germany
and special in Eastern Europe Jewish name culture are directly connected
to the Hebrew name Tsipora.

Best regards
Ury Link

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