JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WAGNER translated birth record Warszawa born 1819, is it ours? #general

Judi Wagner

I would love some opinions on this birth record of Izrael Jacob WAGNER born
1819, and it was recorded in 1824 in Warsaw, number 616, and another record
for a younger brother, Szlama born 1822 is also recorded in 1824, number 617.

Our ggf Gecel ( Getzel or George) WAGNER was born in 1859 in Warsaw. We had
his birth record translated some time ago. His father was Izrael WAGNER, and
at the time of the recording of the birth in 1866, it says Izrael was 41. So
I figured he was born about 1825 or so. It also says he was a trader in

Recently, the actual record, not just the index for Izrael WAGNER's birth
became available. I just put it up on Viewmate at #63192 and before I knew it
I had a translation >from Jonathan Michael Wien, and I thank you again for the
quick response, what a wonderful chanukah gift.

It says that Izrael Jacob was born in 1819 and it was recorded in 1824. The
father of Izrael Jacob is Izrael, and his father is Jacob, and grandfather is

Izrael's mother is Hinka and her father is Szlama. Both the parents of Izrael
are deceased. Possibly Izrael was a coachman. How cool is that? WAGNER came
from waggoner, or wheel, so a coachman makes perfect sense.
So, my question is, is Izrael Jacob the father of Gecel? Gecel had 10
children. There is no Izrael, but there was a Jacob and a Szlama. No Hinka,
or Rochla, the wife of Izrael, or Sora, the mother of Rochla, or Wulf, the
father of Rochla.

What evidence should I be looking for? What will help us to determine if this
could be our family?

We do know that Gecel's father is Izrael >from his birth record. It does not
say Izrael Jacob. His birth record says his mother is Yetta Kajla Hansfater
(Herszenfuter) age 30. The father signs his name Izral WAGNER.

I have been to the cemetery a few times, with boots, gloves and shears, Mt
Zion. The section, Judah-1 is so old there is NO map at the office. I have
been unable to find his grave, so I cannot see if his father's hebrew name
is Izrael Jacob.

Any suggestions for us on how to proceed?

Thanks as always for everyone's assistance, as Phyllis Kramer always says, "
Isn't JewishGen wonderful?"

Judi and Barry WAGNER
WAGNER, Warszawa

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