I am hoping that SKP might help me discover the names of my GGPs from this record.
I do not know if it is a record that Alex has copied, or is available anywhere.
(I am hopeless at translating, and dna interpreting.) Have taken a few JGen courses.
My father, Samuel BLACK, was born in London, England, in 1915 to a Russian couple who had been married by the Kiev, Section 2 City Rabbi, Ya M Aleshkovsky on 25 May 1908.
Entry number 149 in the Register of Births, Deaths and Marriages of the Jewish population of Kiev year 1908 - Part II - Marriages, according to a translated Certificate 1507 issued on 6 August 1909, for submission to the authorities in Belaya Tserkov.
Levi-Itzkhok Tsalevich Tcherny married Sosya Mordkovna Dyvinskaya, both of Kiev Gubernia. He was registered in Belaya Tserkov, she in Vasikov.
In 1906 he passed a beginners' book-keeping course in Kiev and in October was conscripted in Vasilkov, but was discharged as medically unfit from a Black Sea Regiment.
I used to think that they decided to get married and leave the area because of the Pogroms, as both their sons were born in Baku. Marcus on 24 February 1909, and Moisei on 16 October 1910.
I guessed Lionel was dealing in oil shares, and made enough money to bring his family to England, and not only avoid the poverty of the East End, but afford to leave his wife and three sons from 1916 to 1918 while he took a business trip to New York.
But, but, I have just, as I wrote this looked again closely at the dates.
Could they have stayed in Baku from 1908 until about 1911, when they started to make their way to England, arriving February 1912, if that Certificate was collected in Kiev on 6 August 1909, and taken to Belaya Tserkov?
Yes, I suppose that Lionel could have left his wife and baby in Baku, and made a solo trip.
Any ideas please? Would his wife have been required to appear with him?
Did they need the Civil marriage registration to obtain a passport?
There are no records of how they travelled to London.
My grandparents, who I knew as a child in London, had remained Stateless, my father told me just before he died in 1999.
I have dna-tested myself and all my living relatives, with no unknown close matches. I have a cluster of names, but no idea (and nor have they) how we are related.
Brick wall is the ignorance of the names of any gt grandparents. Impossible to create a tree. I really need your help please.
My father kept all his mother's Russian documents, which I inherited, but I have nothing about his father except for the book-keeping course, marriage registration details, and conscription discharge. And a studio photograph of the family of four taken in Baku before they left. (The ornate reverse of which I put in Viewmate some years ago, and was given a translation, thanks.)
When they reached London in 1912, they changed TCHERNY into BLACK. (Before Deed Poll existed.)
When my father was born in Stoke Newington in 1915, they just registered him as Samuel BLACK.
British by birth, luckily for me.
Pat Hamilton ID 519415. Grandparents' haplogroups: Mt H6a1a5. BigY E-A20849
TCHERNY, BLACK, DEVINSKY, Russian Empire, London,UK, USA, Canada; CHORNEY, USA