I could almost agree with your answer except that the two entries of the
divorced women have different formats, so I still have some doubt. In
Sandor Bacskai's response, he suggests that it is always the first surname
that is the maiden name. (See his posting for his reasoning.) I also
received an offline response >from another person saying that the maiden name
is in fact the second surname.
I am getting the idea that there may not be a general answer to this
In answer to your question, in the set of 250 or so records I am
transcribing, there were no cases I can recall where the woman's name ended
in -NE. There were, however, several easy-to-interpret entries, such as
"GALANDE szul VOGEL Katalin" where VOGEL is obviously the maiden name.
I hope someone else will weigh in on this subject.
Regards and thanks,
From: "tom" <tomk@...>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:55 AM
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...>
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Contextual understanding of ozvegy and elvalt
i don't think you can generalize >from those examples, but it may be
possible to find the record of their previous marriage, particularly for
i'm just guessing, but it seems that the women are listed with their full
maiden name (POLLAK Johanna, WERTHEIMER Roza, SEILER Netti, etc.), which
would be proper, plus their married name, as a notation.
just out of curiosity, did any other widows or divorcees have surnames
ending in "-NE"?
....... tom klein, toronto
"Larry Kohn" <larry@...> wrote:
I am transcribing Budapest marriage records for the All Hungarian
The records are for the year 1879 and in some cases I am uncertain about
to interpret the meaning of what is written for a bride who, prior to this
marriage, had either been widowed or divorced. Specifically, is her
name given first, followed by ozvegy/elvalt and then followed by her
previous husband's surname, or is the meaning just the reverse?
Here are some examples:
(For size considerations I only included the register headings in the
POLLAK Johanna elv EICHENBAUM (viewmate image VM11834, entry number 5)
MAHLER ozvegy WERTHEIMER Roza (viewmate image VM11835, entry number 10 )
RAUCH elv SEILER Netti (viewmate image VM11836, entry number 40)
WEISZ ozv LIPPE Terez (viewmate image VM11837, entry number 65)