Re: Researching migration from Belgium to NE Slovakia pre 1815 #hungary


svass@...
 

2062276 (1-8) is the FHL microfilm number for the Varin/Varna area =
Jewish births, marriages, and deaths >from 1843 onwards. 2086050 (2-10) =
is the one for Zsolna/Zilina/Solnensis. Neither is online. There are =
census records on line at JewishGen for Trencsen megye going back to =
1795 and Haas/Haasz is in them with both a Jacobus (1 son) and a =
Josephus (3 sons, 1 daughter) in Varin in 1809 as heads of household. =
The scribe at that time quite often used Latin given names. Jews lived =
near both of these large towns in many small shtetls identified in the =
above records. I once was told secondhand that three brothers came =
from "Germany" to the area in the eighteenth century, one of whom may =
have been my ancestor, which lends credence to your story. I have =
reasonably close yDNA matches to a few Jews with German ancestry and an =
exact (43 of 43) match with one >from Holland. I also note that they =
recently completed a canal about 100 miles in length between the two =
rivers. See http://tinyurl.com/yahbeom

As far as I know, there are no Jewish birth records prior to 1832. The =
names of his parents might show in his marriage record.

As suggested above and if this is a direct paternal (grandfather to =
father to son, etc) relationship, you might wish to consider going to=20
http://www.jewishgen.org/dna/genbygen.html
or
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?group=3DH-SIG
and getting a Y-DNA test. Perhaps we are kin as my ancestor came >from =
the same region of Europe to the same town/area near Varin about the =
same time.
You may find matches still in the Netherlands. Note that I am the =
administrator of that particular FTDNA group for JewishGen.

Sam Vass
Kent, WA, USA

On Mar 6, 2010, dan.haas wrote:

Subject: FW: Researching migration >from Belgium to NE Slovakia pre =
1815
From: dan.haas@...
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:03:20 +0000
X-Message-Number: 4
=20
Dear H-SIG Members
=20
I am just starting to research my early ancestors, who arrived in =
Upper Hungary about 1782-92 >from the Austrian Netherlands (now Belgium). =
What I would be most grateful for, is your suggestions as to how to =
proceed. The story is quite interesting and follows.
=20
My earliest HAAS ancestor was Herman Haas who died 23 Feb 1885 in =
Drascovce, Martin, Slovakia but we believe was born in Varin, Zilina, on =
the River Vah / Vag, probably 1802 -1812. It seems likely that it was =
the father and/or grandfather of Herman Haas who made the difficult and =
dangerous journey >from Belgium to Slovakia, perhaps with a large =
extended Haas family, or a couple of other Jewish families. Have you =
ever heard a similar story >from another family? =20
=20
The journey was comparable in hardship, if not in distance, to the =
trek of the American settlers' waggon trains. It seems likely that the =
ancestors who migrated >from the Austrian Netherlands would have =
travelled by boat and horse cart, across the Netherlands, up the entire =
navigable length of the Rhein, across Bavaria to somewhere between Donau =
Eschingen and Ulm, then down the River Donau to Komarno and up the River =
Vah to Varin. =20
=20
The dates that bracket this migration are 1782 when Emperor Josef II =
issued the Edict of Toleration and 1792, an arbitrary 3 years after =
Austria-Hungary lost control of the Austran Netherlands to a French, =
Catholic controlled mercenary army. The ancestors probably changed >from =
a patrimonial surname to the Flemish, de Haas in or after 1782 and this =
became just Haas in the German-speaking A-H empire.
=20
My enquiries about Zilina suggest that Jews were allowed only daytime =
access to Zilina and not residence there, so Varin, a few km up river, =
was close enough for occasional trips to market while residence for Jews =
and rented land to farm were available there.
=20
I am keen to research the ancestors back to Belgium, where I should be =
able to research back much further. A distant cousin of mine visited =
the registry at Bytca years ago and although he did establish that =
Herman (Armin in Hungarian) was born in Varin, was unable to find the =
names of Herman's parents in the birth register. I find this rather =
strange as well as very frustrating! Perhaps my cousin upset the staff =
and lost their cooperation, as he had the knack of upsetting me.
=20
My questions are:=20
[1] Are birth registers for Varin, Zilina and the rest of Trencin =
County, before 1815, covered by the JewishGen Hungary Database?
[2] Are all the Jewish records for Trencin, Turiec & Zvolen Counties =
also in the JewishGen Hungary Database?
[3] How would you proceed with this research?
=20
With thanks in anticipation, I look forward to your response.
=20
Sincerely
=20
Dan Haas
Winchester GB

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