Date   

Re: Advice re visit to Warsaw #warsaw #poland

bpenny <bpenny@...>
 

Hadasah,

Thanks you very much for this advice. I am wondering what I say in the request
to the Polish State Archives.

Is is OK in English??


Regards

PEnny

===== Original Message >from "Warszawa Research Group"
<warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org> =====
I am wondering whether it is possible to locate any of these records
during my
visit to Warsaw. I only have time available in Warsaw pm Wed April 12th,
pm
Thurs April 13th and I am wondering what would be the best use of this
time to
find out about our family.

Officially in order to visit the Polish State Archives you must send a
request in advance. The real problem is that the Warsaw Jewish Vital
records are not quite well organized and sometimes indexes are lacking.
The other problem is that they are divided by districts (see the
following website: http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/warsaw/districts.htm
for district maps) so if you have limited time then it would helpful if you
knew where they lived.

The two places that I would recommend to go are the Jewish Cemetery. Send
the director a fax and say that you are coming. Give him the surnames you
are researching. (http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/warsaw/warsawcem.htm)
He will search his database and be able to give you a plot location. With
that information you can hike thru the cemetery and search.

I would also recommend visiting the Jewish Historical Institute and the
Ronald Lauder Foundation office. Though these people are extremely busy
and usually not easily able to help people via e-mail or snail mail it is
hard to refuse a smiling face at their door step. ( BTW, did I mention
that you should bring that along too)


and after all that, I assumed that you searched the JRI-Poland database for
your surnames.

Good Luck

Hadasah Lipsius
Kew Gardens Hills, NY



This Research Group (warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
---
You are currently subscribed to warszawa as: bpenny@telstra.com
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Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland RE: Advice re visit to Warsaw #poland #warsaw

bpenny <bpenny@...>
 

Hadasah,

Thanks you very much for this advice. I am wondering what I say in the request
to the Polish State Archives.

Is is OK in English??


Regards

PEnny

===== Original Message >from "Warszawa Research Group"
<warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org> =====
I am wondering whether it is possible to locate any of these records
during my
visit to Warsaw. I only have time available in Warsaw pm Wed April 12th,
pm
Thurs April 13th and I am wondering what would be the best use of this
time to
find out about our family.

Officially in order to visit the Polish State Archives you must send a
request in advance. The real problem is that the Warsaw Jewish Vital
records are not quite well organized and sometimes indexes are lacking.
The other problem is that they are divided by districts (see the
following website: http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/warsaw/districts.htm
for district maps) so if you have limited time then it would helpful if you
knew where they lived.

The two places that I would recommend to go are the Jewish Cemetery. Send
the director a fax and say that you are coming. Give him the surnames you
are researching. (http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/warsaw/warsawcem.htm)
He will search his database and be able to give you a plot location. With
that information you can hike thru the cemetery and search.

I would also recommend visiting the Jewish Historical Institute and the
Ronald Lauder Foundation office. Though these people are extremely busy
and usually not easily able to help people via e-mail or snail mail it is
hard to refuse a smiling face at their door step. ( BTW, did I mention
that you should bring that along too)


and after all that, I assumed that you searched the JRI-Poland database for
your surnames.

Good Luck

Hadasah Lipsius
Kew Gardens Hills, NY



This Research Group (warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
---
You are currently subscribed to warszawa as: bpenny@telstra.com
To unsubscribe send email to $subst('Email.Unsub')
---------------------------------
Powered by http://www.telstra.com


These are the names ed. Aaron Demsky #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

An excellent academic book on names studies is :

"These are the Names " Studies on Jewish Onomastics vol2. Ed by Aaron
Demsky . Bar Ilan Press: Ramat Gan, 1999 isbn 965-226-226-9

CONTENTS

Introduction

Samuel Cooper: Names as Cultural Documents

Aaron Demsky: Double Names in the Babylonian Exile and the Identity of
Sheshbazzar

Abaron Gaimani: The Names of Jewish Women in Yemen

Yossi Katz: Reclaiming the Land: Factors in Naming the Jewish
Settlements in Palestine during the Era of the British Mandate

Yitzchak Kerem: On Sephardic and Romaniote Names

Edwin D. Lawson and Irina Glushkovskaya: Naming Patterns of Recent
Immigrants >from Former Soviet Georgia to Israel

Bezalel Porten: Materials for a Namebook of Aramaic Documents from
Ancient Egypt

Avraham Torpusman: Slavic Names in a Kiev Manuscript >from the First Half
of the 10th Century

Abstracts of Hebrew Articles

Index of Names

Hebrew Section

Introduction

Naomi G. Cohen: The Name "Shabtai" in the Hellenistic Roman Period

Yehiel Nehari: The Sages' Approach in Onomastic Midrashim - The
Linguistic Aspect


Shammai friedman; Nomen est Omen Dicta of the talmudic Sages which Echo
the Author's name
Admiel kosman : Adam gave names to the creatures and to Women in Light
of Aggadic and modern Interpretations.
Abstracts of English articles.



--
Dr Saul Issroff


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen These are the names ed. Aaron Demsky #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

An excellent academic book on names studies is :

"These are the Names " Studies on Jewish Onomastics vol2. Ed by Aaron
Demsky . Bar Ilan Press: Ramat Gan, 1999 isbn 965-226-226-9

CONTENTS

Introduction

Samuel Cooper: Names as Cultural Documents

Aaron Demsky: Double Names in the Babylonian Exile and the Identity of
Sheshbazzar

Abaron Gaimani: The Names of Jewish Women in Yemen

Yossi Katz: Reclaiming the Land: Factors in Naming the Jewish
Settlements in Palestine during the Era of the British Mandate

Yitzchak Kerem: On Sephardic and Romaniote Names

Edwin D. Lawson and Irina Glushkovskaya: Naming Patterns of Recent
Immigrants >from Former Soviet Georgia to Israel

Bezalel Porten: Materials for a Namebook of Aramaic Documents from
Ancient Egypt

Avraham Torpusman: Slavic Names in a Kiev Manuscript >from the First Half
of the 10th Century

Abstracts of Hebrew Articles

Index of Names

Hebrew Section

Introduction

Naomi G. Cohen: The Name "Shabtai" in the Hellenistic Roman Period

Yehiel Nehari: The Sages' Approach in Onomastic Midrashim - The
Linguistic Aspect


Shammai friedman; Nomen est Omen Dicta of the talmudic Sages which Echo
the Author's name
Admiel kosman : Adam gave names to the creatures and to Women in Light
of Aggadic and modern Interpretations.
Abstracts of English articles.



--
Dr Saul Issroff


Abraham NORDEN d. 1840 London #general

Hazel Dakers <hazel.dakers@...>
 

Colleagues

Can you help?

I am a novice member of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain.

I am directly descended >from Marcus Norden, 1820 English Settler in S.
Africa (brother of the better known Benjamin and Joshua Davis). I have
a good deal of information about the "line" between Marcus and me and
quite a lot concerning his brothers and sisters and their descendants.
Currently I am trying to find out more about their parents, Abraham and
Abigail Norden. They died in Hammersmith, West London in 1840 and 1841
aged 82 and 78 respectively. So far I have had no luck finding
information concerning their marriage or births - nor do I have
Abigail's family name. It has recently been suggested to me by an
experienced JGSGB member that they could well have emigrated from
Holland to England and that in fact these records might be Dutch.

I have pasted below my notes on them.


Best wishes,

Hazel Dakers

Died in King Street Hammersmith, West London and Abraham was a broker.
Present at Abraham's death was Julia Norden whose grave (Julia
Hamilton-Parker sister of Benjamin Norden) Paul Cheifitz identified in
Cape Town 1999. I have certificates on several other Nordens too of the
same epoch.

A list of insurance records provided to HD by George Rigal (JGSGB) lists
an Abraham Norden , slopseller (human urine or old clothes > sloppy) ,
24.4.1793 at 62 Upper East Smithfield and 1.3.1820 at 70 Upper East
Smithfield. Pigots Commerical Directory 1826-7 lists the following slop
sellers in Upper east Smithfield: Hartt & Cohen (20), Jas. Krik (97),
Harris Lazarus (112), Hy. Moses (100), Jacob Moses (35), Nathaniel
Nathan (87) and Wm Selby (53).

Nash, The Settler's Handbook refers to Abraham's rejection by the
British Government when he gathered a party of prospective settlers. He
is referred to at that time as coming >from Smithfield ie the City of
London. Eldest son Marcus was born there death notice).

According to Pigot and Co's London Commercial Directory 1838 and 1839 ,
Abraham Norden was a furniture broker at 13 Angel Terrace, Hammersmith.
This was the section of King Street going westwards >from the Angel
public house on the South side. At some stage it was known as Angel Row,
and for a period part was called Angel Row and the other part Angel
Terrace. The name was abolished on 6th June 1862 after which King Street
was re-numbered, absorbing Angel terrace. An 1860 map shows Angel
Terrace clearly. A pre-1862 edition of Kelly's Post Office Directory
indicates that no 13 Angel Terrace was the penultimate house going West
between Bridge Avenue and Downe Place. A post-1862 edition of Kellys
numbers this building 119 King Street. There is a post-World War II
building on the site.

Abraham is not listed in the 1821 Heads of Houselhold Census and the
1822 rates book does not appear to list Abraham Norden in Angel Terrace.
He is listed >from 1823-8 in the rates books.The 1831 Heads of Household
Census lists Abraham and the 1841 lists Julia, 30 years born in this
country, as Head.

When he moved to Hammersmith he went up in the world, as a furniture
broker. Could this have been as a result of his sons' success in the
Cape? Was he the agent exporting goods for sales in their shops and
auctioneers businesses? Records in the Cape Archives, it has been
suggested, may be able to confirm this supposition.

Could Jacob and Esther Norden of London be related?
Pigots 1826-7 includes: Thomas Norden, painter (col.566) 15 New Compton
Street, Soho and Mark Nordon, bookseller (col. 92), 132, Long Acre.
Pigots 1839 lists: Jacob Norden, glass and china dealer S. Chelsea
Market; Joseph Norden, fancy glass cutter, 4 Whitelion Street, Chelsea;
Richard Norden, White Lion (PH), 6, Brick Lane, Old Street and Jacob
Nordon, bedstaead maker, 5 Little Charlotte Street.

HD has death certificate for various Nordens contemporary with Abraham
and Abigail. George Rigal's list (JGSGB) includes some of these, some
mentioned in Pigots and some others in London.

Hazel Dakers,
Middx , UK


Alexander #general

alexander & lisa rosenfeld <senderlisa@...>
 

It has everything to do with Alexander the Great- Jews use the name
Alexander based on what is told in the Talmud (Gittin)of Alexander the
Great asking the Jews to build a statue of him, he was told by Shimon
HaTzaddik(the Kohen Gadol )that would be like idol worship but what they
could do was name all their sons born that year Alexander, and thus he
would be immortalized for generations to come. (This is very abridged) (My
husband's name is Alexander, we call him Sender) Lisa Rosenfeld


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Abraham NORDEN d. 1840 London #general

Hazel Dakers <hazel.dakers@...>
 

Colleagues

Can you help?

I am a novice member of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain.

I am directly descended >from Marcus Norden, 1820 English Settler in S.
Africa (brother of the better known Benjamin and Joshua Davis). I have
a good deal of information about the "line" between Marcus and me and
quite a lot concerning his brothers and sisters and their descendants.
Currently I am trying to find out more about their parents, Abraham and
Abigail Norden. They died in Hammersmith, West London in 1840 and 1841
aged 82 and 78 respectively. So far I have had no luck finding
information concerning their marriage or births - nor do I have
Abigail's family name. It has recently been suggested to me by an
experienced JGSGB member that they could well have emigrated from
Holland to England and that in fact these records might be Dutch.

I have pasted below my notes on them.


Best wishes,

Hazel Dakers

Died in King Street Hammersmith, West London and Abraham was a broker.
Present at Abraham's death was Julia Norden whose grave (Julia
Hamilton-Parker sister of Benjamin Norden) Paul Cheifitz identified in
Cape Town 1999. I have certificates on several other Nordens too of the
same epoch.

A list of insurance records provided to HD by George Rigal (JGSGB) lists
an Abraham Norden , slopseller (human urine or old clothes > sloppy) ,
24.4.1793 at 62 Upper East Smithfield and 1.3.1820 at 70 Upper East
Smithfield. Pigots Commerical Directory 1826-7 lists the following slop
sellers in Upper east Smithfield: Hartt & Cohen (20), Jas. Krik (97),
Harris Lazarus (112), Hy. Moses (100), Jacob Moses (35), Nathaniel
Nathan (87) and Wm Selby (53).

Nash, The Settler's Handbook refers to Abraham's rejection by the
British Government when he gathered a party of prospective settlers. He
is referred to at that time as coming >from Smithfield ie the City of
London. Eldest son Marcus was born there death notice).

According to Pigot and Co's London Commercial Directory 1838 and 1839 ,
Abraham Norden was a furniture broker at 13 Angel Terrace, Hammersmith.
This was the section of King Street going westwards >from the Angel
public house on the South side. At some stage it was known as Angel Row,
and for a period part was called Angel Row and the other part Angel
Terrace. The name was abolished on 6th June 1862 after which King Street
was re-numbered, absorbing Angel terrace. An 1860 map shows Angel
Terrace clearly. A pre-1862 edition of Kelly's Post Office Directory
indicates that no 13 Angel Terrace was the penultimate house going West
between Bridge Avenue and Downe Place. A post-1862 edition of Kellys
numbers this building 119 King Street. There is a post-World War II
building on the site.

Abraham is not listed in the 1821 Heads of Houselhold Census and the
1822 rates book does not appear to list Abraham Norden in Angel Terrace.
He is listed >from 1823-8 in the rates books.The 1831 Heads of Household
Census lists Abraham and the 1841 lists Julia, 30 years born in this
country, as Head.

When he moved to Hammersmith he went up in the world, as a furniture
broker. Could this have been as a result of his sons' success in the
Cape? Was he the agent exporting goods for sales in their shops and
auctioneers businesses? Records in the Cape Archives, it has been
suggested, may be able to confirm this supposition.

Could Jacob and Esther Norden of London be related?
Pigots 1826-7 includes: Thomas Norden, painter (col.566) 15 New Compton
Street, Soho and Mark Nordon, bookseller (col. 92), 132, Long Acre.
Pigots 1839 lists: Jacob Norden, glass and china dealer S. Chelsea
Market; Joseph Norden, fancy glass cutter, 4 Whitelion Street, Chelsea;
Richard Norden, White Lion (PH), 6, Brick Lane, Old Street and Jacob
Nordon, bedstaead maker, 5 Little Charlotte Street.

HD has death certificate for various Nordens contemporary with Abraham
and Abigail. George Rigal's list (JGSGB) includes some of these, some
mentioned in Pigots and some others in London.

Hazel Dakers,
Middx , UK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Alexander #general

alexander & lisa rosenfeld <senderlisa@...>
 

It has everything to do with Alexander the Great- Jews use the name
Alexander based on what is told in the Talmud (Gittin)of Alexander the
Great asking the Jews to build a statue of him, he was told by Shimon
HaTzaddik(the Kohen Gadol )that would be like idol worship but what they
could do was name all their sons born that year Alexander, and thus he
would be immortalized for generations to come. (This is very abridged) (My
husband's name is Alexander, we call him Sender) Lisa Rosenfeld


Re: Naturalization papers #general

Nemeth Family <snemeth@...>
 

<FOODPHILE@aol.com> wrote in message news:da.238a55d.2608ff2e@aol.com...
I am a bit confused as to the procedure for obtaining Naturalization
Papers. I found two good possibilities for my grandfather, Harry HIRSCH,
in the index for Declarations of Intent (1914-1927) at the FHC. On each
of the two cards, there is a volume number and page number. Am I correct
in thinking I have to write to the county courthouse, which in this case
was in the Bronx? If so, is there a listing anywhere that would point me
to the correct courthouse?
Thanks for any help on this.
I'm at the same stage as you in this process, but one step further along.
My family was in Manhattan at about the same time as yours was in the
Bronx. The LDS library had filmed both the index cards and the actual
documents. Using the volume number and what I think of as an "index
number" but what can be a page number just as easily, I located a film
that covered that volume and a range of "index numbers: that matched the
one I had gotten off the card. Go and check the online catalog and see if
you have the same luck I had. I used the same process to find the
document film that I had used to locate the index.

Stella Calderon Nemeth
California

Researching CALDERON, CATALAN, CAPUANO and CARASSO
In the Ottoman Empire 1800 to 1920
In New York City 1920 to Present


Re: Tombstone Inscription Questions #general

hennynow
 

Let me add that Russia in the 19th century and early 20th century was
still on the old Roman calendar, and consequently 13 days behind the
Western European and American calendar.
In my family, we never knew when to celebrate my father's birthday, Dec.
7 or Dec. 20. So, we played it safe and, because he was born on the 5th
day of Chanukah, that's when we partied in his honor!

Henny Roth


Zeeland manifest 2/21/06 #general

Foodphile@...
 

I have a page of the manifest for the SS Zeeland arriving New York
Feb. 21, 1906.
The names are: RUDNISKY, SCHNEIDER, PELL, FRIEDMANN, SILBERMAN,
ROSENBERG, ASOLENOWIZ, OKINOPH, KOLODICE, GOODECZKA.
The handwriting is not easy to read....I hope the above spellings are
correct. If anyone would like further information on any of these names,
please contact me directly and I will be happy to supply the rest of the
information.
Meryl Persky
DUNITZ (DONETZ), Kovel, Ukr.; SALZMAN, Ukr.
KETCHMAN, Ukr.; HIRSCH, Grebow, Pol.
LEDER, Ryglice, Galicia; TEPPER, Galicia
KELLNER, Ostropol, Russia; COHEN, Ostropol, Russia
SCHIER, Grybow, Pol.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Naturalization papers #general

Nemeth Family <snemeth@...>
 

<FOODPHILE@aol.com> wrote in message news:da.238a55d.2608ff2e@aol.com...
I am a bit confused as to the procedure for obtaining Naturalization
Papers. I found two good possibilities for my grandfather, Harry HIRSCH,
in the index for Declarations of Intent (1914-1927) at the FHC. On each
of the two cards, there is a volume number and page number. Am I correct
in thinking I have to write to the county courthouse, which in this case
was in the Bronx? If so, is there a listing anywhere that would point me
to the correct courthouse?
Thanks for any help on this.
I'm at the same stage as you in this process, but one step further along.
My family was in Manhattan at about the same time as yours was in the
Bronx. The LDS library had filmed both the index cards and the actual
documents. Using the volume number and what I think of as an "index
number" but what can be a page number just as easily, I located a film
that covered that volume and a range of "index numbers: that matched the
one I had gotten off the card. Go and check the online catalog and see if
you have the same luck I had. I used the same process to find the
document film that I had used to locate the index.

Stella Calderon Nemeth
California

Researching CALDERON, CATALAN, CAPUANO and CARASSO
In the Ottoman Empire 1800 to 1920
In New York City 1920 to Present


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Tombstone Inscription Questions #general

hennynow
 

Let me add that Russia in the 19th century and early 20th century was
still on the old Roman calendar, and consequently 13 days behind the
Western European and American calendar.
In my family, we never knew when to celebrate my father's birthday, Dec.
7 or Dec. 20. So, we played it safe and, because he was born on the 5th
day of Chanukah, that's when we partied in his honor!

Henny Roth


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Zeeland manifest 2/21/06 #general

Foodphile@...
 

I have a page of the manifest for the SS Zeeland arriving New York
Feb. 21, 1906.
The names are: RUDNISKY, SCHNEIDER, PELL, FRIEDMANN, SILBERMAN,
ROSENBERG, ASOLENOWIZ, OKINOPH, KOLODICE, GOODECZKA.
The handwriting is not easy to read....I hope the above spellings are
correct. If anyone would like further information on any of these names,
please contact me directly and I will be happy to supply the rest of the
information.
Meryl Persky
DUNITZ (DONETZ), Kovel, Ukr.; SALZMAN, Ukr.
KETCHMAN, Ukr.; HIRSCH, Grebow, Pol.
LEDER, Ryglice, Galicia; TEPPER, Galicia
KELLNER, Ostropol, Russia; COHEN, Ostropol, Russia
SCHIER, Grybow, Pol.


Re: Finding Sherry TAYLOR/ Any Licensed Person in California #general

Vicky Ferraresi <vickyfer@...>
 

If you search for a licensed person in California you can go to the
Department of Consumer Affairs site at http://www.dca.ca.gov

For a physician, go to the Medical Board of California Web site at
http://www.medbd.ca.gov/

You can get information on every licensee in the state.

Good luck,

Vicky Furstenberg Ferraresi
Belmont, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Finding Sherry TAYLOR/ Any Licensed Person in California #general

Vicky Ferraresi <vickyfer@...>
 

If you search for a licensed person in California you can go to the
Department of Consumer Affairs site at http://www.dca.ca.gov

For a physician, go to the Medical Board of California Web site at
http://www.medbd.ca.gov/

You can get information on every licensee in the state.

Good luck,

Vicky Furstenberg Ferraresi
Belmont, CA


How Might "Abe" Become "Eliezer"? #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I've been on the trail of documents pertaining to my maternal great
great uncle who immigrated >from "somewhere near Vilna" and wound up
settling in Hamilton, ON, Canada. It's a long story that I won't go
into here. *But*, it is important to mention that I have to track down
Uncle Isadore (the full-blood brother of my maternal great
grandmother), because my mggm didn't leave behind any official (or
unofficial) documents that would help me track the family backward.
Since Uncle Isadore (1874-1935) and my mggm (Ida: 1868-1934)) had the
same parents and were >from the same place, I feel that find *his*
records would clarify *her* background too.

Ida died in December 1934 in Philadelphia, PA. Isadore died in July
1935 in Hamilton, ON. My mgm would have gone to her uncle to get the
needed information for her mother's burial and tombstone (since my mgm
didn't know much of anything about her mother's parents). Isadore was
of sound mind when his sister died, so he was able to tell my mgm what
was necessary.

So, on Ida's tombstone, it states that she was the "daughter of
Eliezer." And, when Isadore died a year later, his tombstone stated
that he was "son of Eliezer." This all seems quite simple up to now,
But things are never so simple when it comes to Jewish genealogy - are
they!

There was one official document that I knew existed for Isadore that
could be found in the USA. He got married in Port Huron, Michigan in
May 1903. With some helpful folks in St. Clair County, MI, I was
fortunate enough to get the information >from that marriage license.
Since getting official documents >from Canada (when one isn't a
Canadian) isn't all that fast or easy, finding Isadore's marriage
license was quite a "coup" for me.

On that license it states that the father of Isadore (and therefore
Ida) was "Abe Lavene." Well, that really knocked me for a loop. The
deviation of the spelling of the surname didn't matter all that much.
We know how that happens, and that that happens very often. *However*,
I'm "at sea" when it comes to seeing his father's given name as "Abe"
but that "Eliezer" is the father's name on the tombstones of Isadore
and Ida.

To make matters even more confusing is that I located a whole huge
clan (of the same family) who settled in and around Pittsburgh, PA.
Isadore was close to them, but not as close as he was to his sister
Ida in Philly. In fact, Ida never mentioned the Pittsburgh family to
her daughter (my mgm) or my mother. Finding the Pittsburgh family was
quite a shock to me. The oldest known common progenitor to the
Pittsburgh clan was Lazar. On the tombstones of all of the first
generation of that family to settle in Pittsburgh, it states that they
were all "sons/daughter of Eliezer."

OK, I'm not totally stupid, I know that there can be all sorts of
reasons for so much "coincidences" or confusion. It is most likely
that Lazar=Eliezer. But, Abe=Eliezer? It just doesn't make much
sense to me. The family in Pittsburgh is as confused as am I. They
can't help me out with this one, nor can/will the few cousins I've
located in Canada.

I haven't been able to find *any* official documents for my mggm Ida in
Philly. My mgm was the "informant" on her mother's death certificate,
but the name of Ida's parents are blanks on the d.c. My mother
doesn't know anything about Ida, as Mom was a youngster when Ida died.

I'm really in need of some useful guidance with this right now. Any
useful ideas? Please advise privately at <rickiz@mindspring.com> as
there is no need to tie up the group with something that would only be
useful to me.

Thanks,
(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Kendall, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen How Might "Abe" Become "Eliezer"? #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I've been on the trail of documents pertaining to my maternal great
great uncle who immigrated >from "somewhere near Vilna" and wound up
settling in Hamilton, ON, Canada. It's a long story that I won't go
into here. *But*, it is important to mention that I have to track down
Uncle Isadore (the full-blood brother of my maternal great
grandmother), because my mggm didn't leave behind any official (or
unofficial) documents that would help me track the family backward.
Since Uncle Isadore (1874-1935) and my mggm (Ida: 1868-1934)) had the
same parents and were >from the same place, I feel that find *his*
records would clarify *her* background too.

Ida died in December 1934 in Philadelphia, PA. Isadore died in July
1935 in Hamilton, ON. My mgm would have gone to her uncle to get the
needed information for her mother's burial and tombstone (since my mgm
didn't know much of anything about her mother's parents). Isadore was
of sound mind when his sister died, so he was able to tell my mgm what
was necessary.

So, on Ida's tombstone, it states that she was the "daughter of
Eliezer." And, when Isadore died a year later, his tombstone stated
that he was "son of Eliezer." This all seems quite simple up to now,
But things are never so simple when it comes to Jewish genealogy - are
they!

There was one official document that I knew existed for Isadore that
could be found in the USA. He got married in Port Huron, Michigan in
May 1903. With some helpful folks in St. Clair County, MI, I was
fortunate enough to get the information >from that marriage license.
Since getting official documents >from Canada (when one isn't a
Canadian) isn't all that fast or easy, finding Isadore's marriage
license was quite a "coup" for me.

On that license it states that the father of Isadore (and therefore
Ida) was "Abe Lavene." Well, that really knocked me for a loop. The
deviation of the spelling of the surname didn't matter all that much.
We know how that happens, and that that happens very often. *However*,
I'm "at sea" when it comes to seeing his father's given name as "Abe"
but that "Eliezer" is the father's name on the tombstones of Isadore
and Ida.

To make matters even more confusing is that I located a whole huge
clan (of the same family) who settled in and around Pittsburgh, PA.
Isadore was close to them, but not as close as he was to his sister
Ida in Philly. In fact, Ida never mentioned the Pittsburgh family to
her daughter (my mgm) or my mother. Finding the Pittsburgh family was
quite a shock to me. The oldest known common progenitor to the
Pittsburgh clan was Lazar. On the tombstones of all of the first
generation of that family to settle in Pittsburgh, it states that they
were all "sons/daughter of Eliezer."

OK, I'm not totally stupid, I know that there can be all sorts of
reasons for so much "coincidences" or confusion. It is most likely
that Lazar=Eliezer. But, Abe=Eliezer? It just doesn't make much
sense to me. The family in Pittsburgh is as confused as am I. They
can't help me out with this one, nor can/will the few cousins I've
located in Canada.

I haven't been able to find *any* official documents for my mggm Ida in
Philly. My mgm was the "informant" on her mother's death certificate,
but the name of Ida's parents are blanks on the d.c. My mother
doesn't know anything about Ida, as Mom was a youngster when Ida died.

I'm really in need of some useful guidance with this right now. Any
useful ideas? Please advise privately at <rickiz@mindspring.com> as
there is no need to tie up the group with something that would only be
useful to me.

Thanks,
(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Kendall, FL


Re: Los Angeles Jewish Cemeteries? #general

Hilary Henkin <propper@...>
 

Ok, Before the moderator tells us to check the JGen Cemetery
Project, I'll toss in the two unmentioned cemeteries I know
about:

Home of Peace, a very old cemetery, holding many famous people
(Yes, I know Hillside has Al Jolsen) (To learn more about this
cemetery, use your favorite search engine)

Mt. Carmel, in Whittier. A *very* old cemetery, and small (old by
LA standards, that is <g>). My great-grandmother and a
mysterious great-uncle are buried here. (It was somewhat near
the old Jewish neighborhoods of the 1920's-30's. The area is not
Jewish now.....
BTW, if anyone is going to Mt. Carmel, I'd love to request a
gravestone photo. They've promised to send me one, (twice), but
haven't done so. Write me back for the specifics.

Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia
propper@bellsouth.net

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has many resources, but none better than
our informative subscribers. The International Jewish Cemetery Project,
mentioned above, can be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Los Angeles Jewish Cemeteries? #general

Hilary Henkin <propper@...>
 

Ok, Before the moderator tells us to check the JGen Cemetery
Project, I'll toss in the two unmentioned cemeteries I know
about:

Home of Peace, a very old cemetery, holding many famous people
(Yes, I know Hillside has Al Jolsen) (To learn more about this
cemetery, use your favorite search engine)

Mt. Carmel, in Whittier. A *very* old cemetery, and small (old by
LA standards, that is <g>). My great-grandmother and a
mysterious great-uncle are buried here. (It was somewhat near
the old Jewish neighborhoods of the 1920's-30's. The area is not
Jewish now.....
BTW, if anyone is going to Mt. Carmel, I'd love to request a
gravestone photo. They've promised to send me one, (twice), but
haven't done so. Write me back for the specifics.

Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia
propper@bellsouth.net

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has many resources, but none better than
our informative subscribers. The International Jewish Cemetery Project,
mentioned above, can be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/