Date   

Re: Rovna Poland or Russia #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Rovno, in Vohlniya, Russia is now called Rivne, in Ukraine.
Doug Cohen

That's interesting, because someone else just mentioned that Lvov is now
Lviv.

A pattern seems to be emerging here, whereby place names with an "o" vowel
are getting their names changed so as to replace the "o" sound by an "i"
vowel sound. Could some linguist who knows Russian and Polish well please
explain to us the reason for this phenomenon. -- i.e. who is responsible
for changing these place names and why, specificlaly, are these "o"
vowels being changed to "i" vowels?

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Rovna Poland or Russia #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Rovno, in Vohlniya, Russia is now called Rivne, in Ukraine.
Doug Cohen

That's interesting, because someone else just mentioned that Lvov is now
Lviv.

A pattern seems to be emerging here, whereby place names with an "o" vowel
are getting their names changed so as to replace the "o" sound by an "i"
vowel sound. Could some linguist who knows Russian and Polish well please
explain to us the reason for this phenomenon. -- i.e. who is responsible
for changing these place names and why, specificlaly, are these "o"
vowels being changed to "i" vowels?

Judith Romney Wegner


FRIEDMAN, HOFFMAN, KORLAND, KROMHOLZ, LENETT, SCHIFF, THURLIN, ZEIDELMAN #general

ctf-vif@...
 

If anyone has information about the following people, please e-mail me
directly at: ctf-vif@mindspring.com

Barnett David FRIEDMAN m. Sarah THURLIN (FRIEDMAN).

They had at least four children:
Hirsch FRIEDMAN (b. 5 OCT 1892, d. NOV 1986)
Rose FRIEDMAN (SCHIFF)
Lena FRIEDMAN (KURLAND)
Nettie FRIEDMAN (LENETT).

Hirsch FRIEDMAN, my grandfather, was possibly born in Kiev, but I know that
he was in the United States by 1903 as he was attending a school for the
deaf here by then.

Hirsch FRIEDMAN was married three times:
First to Fannie KROMHOLZ (FRIEDMAN) who died in childbirth 2 MAR 1923.
Second to Lottie HOFFMAN (FRIEDMAN) who died on 7 MAY 1939.
Third, on 6 SEP 1942, to Anna "Annie" ZEIDELMAN (FRIEDMAN) who died 7 JUL
1971.--They had one child, my father, who is still living.

I also have several other names that I don't know how they go together yet.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to provide.
Vicki Ina Friedman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FRIEDMAN, HOFFMAN, KORLAND, KROMHOLZ, LENETT, SCHIFF, THURLIN, ZEIDELMAN #general

ctf-vif@...
 

If anyone has information about the following people, please e-mail me
directly at: ctf-vif@mindspring.com

Barnett David FRIEDMAN m. Sarah THURLIN (FRIEDMAN).

They had at least four children:
Hirsch FRIEDMAN (b. 5 OCT 1892, d. NOV 1986)
Rose FRIEDMAN (SCHIFF)
Lena FRIEDMAN (KURLAND)
Nettie FRIEDMAN (LENETT).

Hirsch FRIEDMAN, my grandfather, was possibly born in Kiev, but I know that
he was in the United States by 1903 as he was attending a school for the
deaf here by then.

Hirsch FRIEDMAN was married three times:
First to Fannie KROMHOLZ (FRIEDMAN) who died in childbirth 2 MAR 1923.
Second to Lottie HOFFMAN (FRIEDMAN) who died on 7 MAY 1939.
Third, on 6 SEP 1942, to Anna "Annie" ZEIDELMAN (FRIEDMAN) who died 7 JUL
1971.--They had one child, my father, who is still living.

I also have several other names that I don't know how they go together yet.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to provide.
Vicki Ina Friedman


Different names for same town? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Summer 1999, before going to Poland for 2 weeks, we got a good road map
of Poland >from the Polish tourist office.

Just returned >from a visit to Berlin where I bought a Poland Euro Atlas
with 87 very, very detailed pages.

Now, though, I seem to have a problem: One town, in which I am
interested, has different names on these two *recent* acquisitions. On the
1999 road map it's named Wladyslawow (52 06 / 18 29), but in the Euro
Atlas it's named Russocice. Thanks to Stanley Diamond I know these names
are for the same town, but thought they had been applied at different
times in Poland's history. Now it seems both of these names are still in
use.

As I am indexing LDS films >from a small town near Lublin I thought the
Euro Atlas could help with locating and proper spelling of
difficult-to-read town names in the marriage records, but if many towns
still go by two or more names my problems with the town names are not
over.

Question: Obviously, what I need, is WOWW, but it's out of print. Is
there any other gazetteer that could "step in" and help with all those
different names of Polish towns?

Kirsten Gradel
Denmark


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Different names for same town? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Summer 1999, before going to Poland for 2 weeks, we got a good road map
of Poland >from the Polish tourist office.

Just returned >from a visit to Berlin where I bought a Poland Euro Atlas
with 87 very, very detailed pages.

Now, though, I seem to have a problem: One town, in which I am
interested, has different names on these two *recent* acquisitions. On the
1999 road map it's named Wladyslawow (52 06 / 18 29), but in the Euro
Atlas it's named Russocice. Thanks to Stanley Diamond I know these names
are for the same town, but thought they had been applied at different
times in Poland's history. Now it seems both of these names are still in
use.

As I am indexing LDS films >from a small town near Lublin I thought the
Euro Atlas could help with locating and proper spelling of
difficult-to-read town names in the marriage records, but if many towns
still go by two or more names my problems with the town names are not
over.

Question: Obviously, what I need, is WOWW, but it's out of print. Is
there any other gazetteer that could "step in" and help with all those
different names of Polish towns?

Kirsten Gradel
Denmark


Re: "Looking for information on 1919 Slovechno Pogrom" #general

NFatouros@...
 

In her message of 10-18-00, Cindy Gallard sought information about a
pogrom that occurred in 1919 in Slovechno.

John D. Klier and Shlomo Lambroza, Eds., "Pogroms: Anti-Jewish Violence
in modern Russian History, Cambridge University Press, contains a chapter
by Peter Kenez entitled "Pogroms and White Ideology in the Russian Civil
War." It discusses the perpetrators and background of the pogroms, but it
doesn't mention Solovechno. Kenez notes that there are some documents by a
N.I. Shtif in "Pogromy na Ukraine, " and he refers to several other sources
for his article, but I doubt that those contain specific information, such
as a list of the victims of any village.

I also looked for Solechno in the index of Henry Abramson's "A Prayer for
the Government: Ukrainians and Jews in Revolutionary Times, 1917-1918,"
Harvard University Press, 1999, but didn't find an entry or mention of the
town.

>from a letter I found written in 1922 by a nephew of my grandfather I
learned that the nephew's brother was killed by the troups of Denikin, but I
don't expect to find a victims list in which the name of Alexander BELKOVSKY
appears, nor do I even know just where Sascha was slain. although I imagine
it was in or near Kiev or Berdichev.

Some newspapers in the Ukraine and Russia did publish articles about the
pogroms but again, it is not likely that they contained the articles
included names of victims, unless, perhaps, the victim or victims were
members of a prominent family.

I share Ms. Gallard's frustration!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "Looking for information on 1919 Slovechno Pogrom" #general

NFatouros@...
 

In her message of 10-18-00, Cindy Gallard sought information about a
pogrom that occurred in 1919 in Slovechno.

John D. Klier and Shlomo Lambroza, Eds., "Pogroms: Anti-Jewish Violence
in modern Russian History, Cambridge University Press, contains a chapter
by Peter Kenez entitled "Pogroms and White Ideology in the Russian Civil
War." It discusses the perpetrators and background of the pogroms, but it
doesn't mention Solovechno. Kenez notes that there are some documents by a
N.I. Shtif in "Pogromy na Ukraine, " and he refers to several other sources
for his article, but I doubt that those contain specific information, such
as a list of the victims of any village.

I also looked for Solechno in the index of Henry Abramson's "A Prayer for
the Government: Ukrainians and Jews in Revolutionary Times, 1917-1918,"
Harvard University Press, 1999, but didn't find an entry or mention of the
town.

>from a letter I found written in 1922 by a nephew of my grandfather I
learned that the nephew's brother was killed by the troups of Denikin, but I
don't expect to find a victims list in which the name of Alexander BELKOVSKY
appears, nor do I even know just where Sascha was slain. although I imagine
it was in or near Kiev or Berdichev.

Some newspapers in the Ukraine and Russia did publish articles about the
pogroms but again, it is not likely that they contained the articles
included names of victims, unless, perhaps, the victim or victims were
members of a prominent family.

I share Ms. Gallard's frustration!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse.


Re: Rovna Poland or Russia #general

Steven Schwartz <SSchwartz@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: George Heister <heister@eticomm.net>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 2:50 AM
Subject: Rovna Poland or Russia


George, as I understand it, Rovna was part of Russia up to the time
of the Russian Revolution. After World War I, Rovna was administered
by Poland.

My grandparents, Zus (Samuel) NARODETSKY and Golda HENDELBERG NARODETSKY
lived in Rovna until 1921, when they came to America on a Polish passport.

Steve Schwartz,
Dover, Delaware USA
SSchwartz@EZOL.com

Also searching:

HAUPTMAN, of Drohobych in Eastern Galicia, now Western Ukraine
KIMELHEIM, of Drohobych (Galicia / now Ukraine) and >from Budapest,Hungary
NARODETSKY, of Rovno in old Volhynia District, Ukraine (and >from Kiev).
HENDELBERG or HANDELBERG, of Annopol (near Rovno) in old Volhynia District,
Ukraine.FISCHER, of Budapest (or Grosbedan or Yanashee),Hungary. SCHWARTZ, of
Vienna, Austria; Nagy Totfalu and Mateszalka, Hungary.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Rovna Poland or Russia #general

Steven Schwartz <SSchwartz@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: George Heister <heister@eticomm.net>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 2:50 AM
Subject: Rovna Poland or Russia


George, as I understand it, Rovna was part of Russia up to the time
of the Russian Revolution. After World War I, Rovna was administered
by Poland.

My grandparents, Zus (Samuel) NARODETSKY and Golda HENDELBERG NARODETSKY
lived in Rovna until 1921, when they came to America on a Polish passport.

Steve Schwartz,
Dover, Delaware USA
SSchwartz@EZOL.com

Also searching:

HAUPTMAN, of Drohobych in Eastern Galicia, now Western Ukraine
KIMELHEIM, of Drohobych (Galicia / now Ukraine) and >from Budapest,Hungary
NARODETSKY, of Rovno in old Volhynia District, Ukraine (and >from Kiev).
HENDELBERG or HANDELBERG, of Annopol (near Rovno) in old Volhynia District,
Ukraine.FISCHER, of Budapest (or Grosbedan or Yanashee),Hungary. SCHWARTZ, of
Vienna, Austria; Nagy Totfalu and Mateszalka, Hungary.


Looking for BENOLIEL (Gibraltar) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Schlomo, son of Jehuda, son
of Schlomo, son of Jehuda BENOLIEL and Judith, daughter of Avraham, son of
Schlomo, son of Jehuda BENOLIEL took place in 1822 in Gibraltar.

Who can give any information about these families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch

MODERATOR NOTE: Go to http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff You will find eight
others searching for the same surname >from that general area. Enter your
surnames so others may find you. This is one of our most heavily visited
sites. Also check out the Sefard Forum
at http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/SefardForum.htm


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for BENOLIEL (Gibraltar) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Schlomo, son of Jehuda, son
of Schlomo, son of Jehuda BENOLIEL and Judith, daughter of Avraham, son of
Schlomo, son of Jehuda BENOLIEL took place in 1822 in Gibraltar.

Who can give any information about these families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch

MODERATOR NOTE: Go to http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff You will find eight
others searching for the same surname >from that general area. Enter your
surnames so others may find you. This is one of our most heavily visited
sites. Also check out the Sefard Forum
at http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/SefardForum.htm


Looking for DA ASCOLI and AZIZ (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Schabtai Schmuel, son of
Jizchak DA ASCOLI and Diamante, daughter of Israel AZIZ, took place on
December 10th, 1788, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for DA ASCOLI and AZIZ (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Schabtai Schmuel, son of
Jizchak DA ASCOLI and Diamante, daughter of Israel AZIZ, took place on
December 10th, 1788, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


Looking for FANGOLI (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Jechiel Schabtai, son of
Joseph Chai haKohen and Diamante, daughter of Mosche Jakov FANGOLI, took
place on March 13th, 1783, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for FANGOLI (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Jechiel Schabtai, son of
Joseph Chai haKohen and Diamante, daughter of Mosche Jakov FANGOLI, took
place on March 13th, 1783, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


Looking for AL COSTANTIN and DA MONDOLFO (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Jizchak, son of Avraham AL
COSTANTIN and Regina, daughter of Josef Chai DA MONDOLFO, took place on
September 19th, 1697, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for AL COSTANTIN and DA MONDOLFO (Ancona, Italy) #general

Daniel Teichman <106607.620@...>
 

According to their K'tubah, the marriage between Jizchak, son of Avraham AL
COSTANTIN and Regina, daughter of Josef Chai DA MONDOLFO, took place on
September 19th, 1697, in Ancona (Italy).

Who can give any information about these two families?

Daniel Teichman
Zurich, Switzerland
e-mail: Daniel.Teichman@vsao.ch


Re: A Problem with Dates #general

Hilary Henkin <propper@...>
 

I'm sure you'll get many responses on this one < g >.

Go with the naturalization papers for accuracy, compared to the census. The census
was completed by a census taker going house-to-house. The person who provided the
information on your family could've been a neighbor or relative instead of the
person.

Generally, go with "primary souces" first, because they have information provided
directly by the person. "Secondary sources" contain information provided by someone
*about* that person. So SS-5s are great, because they were completed by the person
themselves. Ditto for marriage certificates, birth certificates, naturalization
papers, etc.
Death certificates and census are less reliable, because the information
was/could've-been provided by someone other than the subject.

Of course, primary sources are no guarantee of accuracy either. I have the
naturalization papers for both a husband and wife, around 1935-1940. They don't
agree on the birth dates of their own children in 1919 and 1927! Ah, well....

Good luck!

Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A Problem with Dates #general

Hilary Henkin <propper@...>
 

I'm sure you'll get many responses on this one < g >.

Go with the naturalization papers for accuracy, compared to the census. The census
was completed by a census taker going house-to-house. The person who provided the
information on your family could've been a neighbor or relative instead of the
person.

Generally, go with "primary souces" first, because they have information provided
directly by the person. "Secondary sources" contain information provided by someone
*about* that person. So SS-5s are great, because they were completed by the person
themselves. Ditto for marriage certificates, birth certificates, naturalization
papers, etc.
Death certificates and census are less reliable, because the information
was/could've-been provided by someone other than the subject.

Of course, primary sources are no guarantee of accuracy either. I have the
naturalization papers for both a husband and wife, around 1935-1940. They don't
agree on the birth dates of their own children in 1919 and 1927! Ah, well....

Good luck!

Hilary Henkin
Atlanta, Georgia