Date   

Re: mandate era death certificates in Israel #ukraine

Bronstein Family <sygaa@...>
 

Dear Fellow Ukraine SIG Researchers,

One must remember that documents that are matters of public record in the
US (& perhaps other countries) are not matters of public record here in
Israel. One correction in Steve Rivkin's posting is that it is the
Ministry of the Interior that issues the Death Certificates. The
rabbinate has nothing to do with them. It is marriage licenses that they
are responsible for. Some years ago while doing a research project at
the Central Zionist Archives, I ran across a blank Mandate Era Death
Certificate. I regret that I did not have it copied at the time. I, too,
have applied for my great-grandmother's Death Certificate and spoke with
people at the Ministry of Interior. I was told that the original document
is never copied but the information that it contains is copied and sent to
the family member who requests it. If you are not a family member, you
need a power of attorney >from the family member to apply for it. The
one additional item that can now be requested, it was not supplied when I
first requested the Death Certificate in the 1980's, is cause of death.

One must also remember that some of the information that was supplied at
the time of death was incomplete. This I found even with Death
Certificates issued in the states. It pays to check with the Hevre Kadisha
to get further information. In my great-grandmother's case, I was able to
supply further information to the Hevre Kadisha and they added it to her
file.
One of my daughters is a statistician for the statistics department of the
Ministry of the Interior. She checked and confirmed for me that the
original document (if it still exists) is never copied. I was unable,
even with her help and that of some of the people in her office, to find
out where the original copies of Mandate Era Death Certificates are kept.
My contacts at the National Archives told me that they were not in their
possession. I hope that this is of some help to those who are frustrated
by not being able to get a copy of the original document.

Regards >from Jerusalem - if you are planning to visit Israel, don't cancel
your trip. Right now there are no lines for
anything.

Shalom Bronstein, Jerusalem

Researching - SHULMAN/SHILLMAN - PANEVEZYS; BLOCH - KREKANAVA (Lithuania);
the DIMMERMAN, BECK & GELMAN families >from Ostrog & vicinity (Volhyn);
BRONSTEIN, BROWNSTEIN, RUNSTEIN, ROCHMANN - Kishenev (Moldava); GOLDSTEIN -
IASI (Romanis) - those who came to America all settled in Philadelphia;
GOLDZWEIG & LETZTER - CHOLOJOW/UZLOVOYE (Eastern Galicia/Ukraine)

Original Message
From: SRivkin742@aol.com
Subject: [ukraine] mandate era death certificates in Israel

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution.

Both my great great grandparents died in Israel in 1924 and the other in
1925. Its my understanding that these mandate era death certificates were
in English. Under the British the only death certificate copy I can get
from Israel is an <extract> >from the Ministry of Religious Affairs who
issues such certificates. I believe this might be all they have access to -
but one Rabbi said by writing he was able to get a small bit of additional
info. They issue these certificates in Hebrew.

I want a photocopy of the orginal certificate which 1] is in English and
2] it is said they contain additional info often such as a]last address
and b] perhaps names of parents.

Shalom,
Steve Rivkin


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: mandate era death certificates in Israel #ukraine

Bronstein Family <sygaa@...>
 

Dear Fellow Ukraine SIG Researchers,

One must remember that documents that are matters of public record in the
US (& perhaps other countries) are not matters of public record here in
Israel. One correction in Steve Rivkin's posting is that it is the
Ministry of the Interior that issues the Death Certificates. The
rabbinate has nothing to do with them. It is marriage licenses that they
are responsible for. Some years ago while doing a research project at
the Central Zionist Archives, I ran across a blank Mandate Era Death
Certificate. I regret that I did not have it copied at the time. I, too,
have applied for my great-grandmother's Death Certificate and spoke with
people at the Ministry of Interior. I was told that the original document
is never copied but the information that it contains is copied and sent to
the family member who requests it. If you are not a family member, you
need a power of attorney >from the family member to apply for it. The
one additional item that can now be requested, it was not supplied when I
first requested the Death Certificate in the 1980's, is cause of death.

One must also remember that some of the information that was supplied at
the time of death was incomplete. This I found even with Death
Certificates issued in the states. It pays to check with the Hevre Kadisha
to get further information. In my great-grandmother's case, I was able to
supply further information to the Hevre Kadisha and they added it to her
file.
One of my daughters is a statistician for the statistics department of the
Ministry of the Interior. She checked and confirmed for me that the
original document (if it still exists) is never copied. I was unable,
even with her help and that of some of the people in her office, to find
out where the original copies of Mandate Era Death Certificates are kept.
My contacts at the National Archives told me that they were not in their
possession. I hope that this is of some help to those who are frustrated
by not being able to get a copy of the original document.

Regards >from Jerusalem - if you are planning to visit Israel, don't cancel
your trip. Right now there are no lines for
anything.

Shalom Bronstein, Jerusalem

Researching - SHULMAN/SHILLMAN - PANEVEZYS; BLOCH - KREKANAVA (Lithuania);
the DIMMERMAN, BECK & GELMAN families >from Ostrog & vicinity (Volhyn);
BRONSTEIN, BROWNSTEIN, RUNSTEIN, ROCHMANN - Kishenev (Moldava); GOLDSTEIN -
IASI (Romanis) - those who came to America all settled in Philadelphia;
GOLDZWEIG & LETZTER - CHOLOJOW/UZLOVOYE (Eastern Galicia/Ukraine)

Original Message
From: SRivkin742@aol.com
Subject: [ukraine] mandate era death certificates in Israel

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution.

Both my great great grandparents died in Israel in 1924 and the other in
1925. Its my understanding that these mandate era death certificates were
in English. Under the British the only death certificate copy I can get
from Israel is an <extract> >from the Ministry of Religious Affairs who
issues such certificates. I believe this might be all they have access to -
but one Rabbi said by writing he was able to get a small bit of additional
info. They issue these certificates in Hebrew.

I want a photocopy of the orginal certificate which 1] is in English and
2] it is said they contain additional info often such as a]last address
and b] perhaps names of parents.

Shalom,
Steve Rivkin


Re: Re Yelisevetgrad #ukraine

Squinky85@...
 

My family is >from Elizavetgrad, or Yelisevetgrad as you called it. The
maiden name is BRODSKY and they too emigrated to Canada, though I am
unsure where. If this sounds familiar to you, I can provide more
information.

Caitlyn O'Connell
Studio City, CA

In a message dated 11/4/0 2:32:44 AM, you wrote:

<<Recently, Dmitry wrote about Yelisevetgrad and said the place was
renamed by the Soviets to Kirovograd. I had the notion the more recent
name is Kirovohrad and it was located in the gubernia of Cherson. Could
someone inform me regarding which name is correct? My mother's maiden
name was Grunia SASLOFSKY but when she left Yelisevetgrad, Ukraine in
1913 and settled in Winnipeg, Canada, she and her brother,Yankel(Jack)
shortened the name to SASLOW. However, my maternal grandmother, Polya
(whose maiden name was TORGOVITSKY) remained in Yelisevetgrad. Her
husband, my maternal grandfather, named Chaim, was assassinated with
others in a 1920 pogrom in the same city. Polya(later changed to Pearl)
and her youngest son Moishe(Maurice) emigrated to Winnipeg in 1921.
Anything that could be added to this connection would be greatly
appreciated.>>


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Re Yelisevetgrad #ukraine

Squinky85@...
 

My family is >from Elizavetgrad, or Yelisevetgrad as you called it. The
maiden name is BRODSKY and they too emigrated to Canada, though I am
unsure where. If this sounds familiar to you, I can provide more
information.

Caitlyn O'Connell
Studio City, CA

In a message dated 11/4/0 2:32:44 AM, you wrote:

<<Recently, Dmitry wrote about Yelisevetgrad and said the place was
renamed by the Soviets to Kirovograd. I had the notion the more recent
name is Kirovohrad and it was located in the gubernia of Cherson. Could
someone inform me regarding which name is correct? My mother's maiden
name was Grunia SASLOFSKY but when she left Yelisevetgrad, Ukraine in
1913 and settled in Winnipeg, Canada, she and her brother,Yankel(Jack)
shortened the name to SASLOW. However, my maternal grandmother, Polya
(whose maiden name was TORGOVITSKY) remained in Yelisevetgrad. Her
husband, my maternal grandfather, named Chaim, was assassinated with
others in a 1920 pogrom in the same city. Polya(later changed to Pearl)
and her youngest son Moishe(Maurice) emigrated to Winnipeg in 1921.
Anything that could be added to this connection would be greatly
appreciated.>>


Reading Recommendation #latvia

Jack R. Braverman <jbraverman1@...>
 

Articles about desecration of Jewish cemeteries are at least tangentially=

related to this List, nicht
var? Hope so. =


You may be interested in reading "The Carpentras Affair," in the November=

6th issue of "The
New Yorker." Do so especially if you are a Francophile, yet even a mild
interest in the dynamics
of European small-town prejudice make it a good read.

The desecration of the oldest cemetery in Europe still _in use_ (>from the=

14th cent.) =

is the occasion of the piece, but it's really in the background and is
given only a little description.
What happens after the discovery ... therein lies the tale.

Oh, have you ever wondered where Captain Dreyfus went after his return fr=
om
Devil's Island?
Yes! Carpentras until he couldn't stand it anymore.

Jack Braverman
Cleveland, OH


Latvia SIG #Latvia Reading Recommendation #latvia

Jack R. Braverman <jbraverman1@...>
 

Articles about desecration of Jewish cemeteries are at least tangentially=

related to this List, nicht
var? Hope so. =


You may be interested in reading "The Carpentras Affair," in the November=

6th issue of "The
New Yorker." Do so especially if you are a Francophile, yet even a mild
interest in the dynamics
of European small-town prejudice make it a good read.

The desecration of the oldest cemetery in Europe still _in use_ (>from the=

14th cent.) =

is the occasion of the piece, but it's really in the background and is
given only a little description.
What happens after the discovery ... therein lies the tale.

Oh, have you ever wondered where Captain Dreyfus went after his return fr=
om
Devil's Island?
Yes! Carpentras until he couldn't stand it anymore.

Jack Braverman
Cleveland, OH


SF Bay Area JGS Workshop #general

D. Kurtz <dlkurtz@...>
 

The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society presents the

15th ANNUAL JEWISH GENEALOGY WORKSHOP
Sunday, November 12, 2000
12pm - 4pm

Fort Mason Center
Marina Blvd. at Buchanan St.
Building C, Room 205
San Francisco

*CLASSES*
12pm-1:30pm - Jewish Genealogy: The Basics, presented by Marc Seidenfeld

2pm-3:30pm - Beyond the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions),
presented by Rodger Rosenberg and Rosanne Leeson


*ASK ME ABOUT* Come get your questions answered and information about:
1pm-2:30pm - National Archives, Immigration, France, Germany, Romania,
Hungary

2:30pm-4pm - Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, England, UC Berkeley Libraries

*TRANSLATION ASSISTANCE*
1pm-4pm - Yiddish, Polish, Russian, German, Georgian, Macedonian, more.

*ALL DAY RESEARCH AND ASSISTANCE*
Library resources: microfiche, maps, computers, helpful volunteers!

Door prizes! Refreshments! Schmooze tables! Information tables!
More!

JOIN US!

Visit our website at: www.jewishgen.org/sfbajgs

For more information, contact:
Rodger Rosenberg, President, eandr@ix.netcom.com
Rosanne Leeson, Vice President, Leeson1@attglobal.net
Sita Likuski, Membership, sitaL@aol.com
Judy Baston, Librarian, jrbaston@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SF Bay Area JGS Workshop #general

D. Kurtz <dlkurtz@...>
 

The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society presents the

15th ANNUAL JEWISH GENEALOGY WORKSHOP
Sunday, November 12, 2000
12pm - 4pm

Fort Mason Center
Marina Blvd. at Buchanan St.
Building C, Room 205
San Francisco

*CLASSES*
12pm-1:30pm - Jewish Genealogy: The Basics, presented by Marc Seidenfeld

2pm-3:30pm - Beyond the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions),
presented by Rodger Rosenberg and Rosanne Leeson


*ASK ME ABOUT* Come get your questions answered and information about:
1pm-2:30pm - National Archives, Immigration, France, Germany, Romania,
Hungary

2:30pm-4pm - Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, England, UC Berkeley Libraries

*TRANSLATION ASSISTANCE*
1pm-4pm - Yiddish, Polish, Russian, German, Georgian, Macedonian, more.

*ALL DAY RESEARCH AND ASSISTANCE*
Library resources: microfiche, maps, computers, helpful volunteers!

Door prizes! Refreshments! Schmooze tables! Information tables!
More!

JOIN US!

Visit our website at: www.jewishgen.org/sfbajgs

For more information, contact:
Rodger Rosenberg, President, eandr@ix.netcom.com
Rosanne Leeson, Vice President, Leeson1@attglobal.net
Sita Likuski, Membership, sitaL@aol.com
Judy Baston, Librarian, jrbaston@aol.com


November Meeting of Jewish Genealogical Society of Philadelphia #general

JGLois@...
 

November Meeting of Jewish Genealogical Society of Philadelphia

Date: Monday, November 13, 2000
Time: 7:45 PM
Place: The Newman Building at Gratz College
Old York Road (Route 611) and Melrose Avenue
Melrose Park, PA

Speaker: Mark Halpern
Topic: Jewish Records Indexing -Poland: Vital Records >from Poland and More

Mark will review how to use the online database of records >from Poland,
explain what information can be obtained there, and also describe the new
initiatives recently announced by JRI-Poland.

Mark Halpern has coordinated for JRI-Poland the records of the Bialystok
(birthplace of his mother) branch of the Polish State Archives, which had
not been microfilmed by the LDS church. Currently, he is coordinating the
indexing of records held in Warsaw's AGAD Archives for 13 towns near
Tarnopol, his father's birthplace, in the Galacian part of Ukraine. In
addition he is a volunteer on Jewishgen and a member of JGSP for one year.

******
Special Offer for New Members and other Beginners!

Come at 7:15, 30 minutes early, and hear more experienced members of
JGSP give advice and counsel on issues that interest and perplex you.
Come early and stay for the regular meeting following.
*****
Interested friends are always welcome!
Refreshments will be served following the meeting
******
For all who are researching Philadelphia roots and need information on
local resources; cemeteries, funeral directors, repositories (and much
more) please visit the JGSP website: http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsp
******
Russian Special Interest Group:
The next (Important) meeting will be held on Sunday, November 19, at
1:30 p.m. at the Klein Branch JG/CC, Red Lion Rd. & Jamison Ave.

Speaker: Ms. Klara Vinokur, former head of the Kiev organization of
Holocaust survivors.
*****

Lois Sernoff [JGS Philadelphia]
<JGLois@aol.com>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen November Meeting of Jewish Genealogical Society of Philadelphia #general

JGLois@...
 

November Meeting of Jewish Genealogical Society of Philadelphia

Date: Monday, November 13, 2000
Time: 7:45 PM
Place: The Newman Building at Gratz College
Old York Road (Route 611) and Melrose Avenue
Melrose Park, PA

Speaker: Mark Halpern
Topic: Jewish Records Indexing -Poland: Vital Records >from Poland and More

Mark will review how to use the online database of records >from Poland,
explain what information can be obtained there, and also describe the new
initiatives recently announced by JRI-Poland.

Mark Halpern has coordinated for JRI-Poland the records of the Bialystok
(birthplace of his mother) branch of the Polish State Archives, which had
not been microfilmed by the LDS church. Currently, he is coordinating the
indexing of records held in Warsaw's AGAD Archives for 13 towns near
Tarnopol, his father's birthplace, in the Galacian part of Ukraine. In
addition he is a volunteer on Jewishgen and a member of JGSP for one year.

******
Special Offer for New Members and other Beginners!

Come at 7:15, 30 minutes early, and hear more experienced members of
JGSP give advice and counsel on issues that interest and perplex you.
Come early and stay for the regular meeting following.
*****
Interested friends are always welcome!
Refreshments will be served following the meeting
******
For all who are researching Philadelphia roots and need information on
local resources; cemeteries, funeral directors, repositories (and much
more) please visit the JGSP website: http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsp
******
Russian Special Interest Group:
The next (Important) meeting will be held on Sunday, November 19, at
1:30 p.m. at the Klein Branch JG/CC, Red Lion Rd. & Jamison Ave.

Speaker: Ms. Klara Vinokur, former head of the Kiev organization of
Holocaust survivors.
*****

Lois Sernoff [JGS Philadelphia]
<JGLois@aol.com>


Re: Dr. Vivian Moses DNA website #general

Kevin Brook <samkarsh@...>
 

Wayne,

I have learned that preliminary results >from Dr. Vivian Moses' study
may be available as soon as December of this year. The University
College London homepage of the genetic study being led by Dr. Moses is:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ashkenazim/

For complete coverage of the pros and cons of various genetic
interpretations, along with comprehensive statistical information, see
the summaries and articles at the following link:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Sincerely yours,
Kevin Alan Brook
Author, The Jews of Khazaria


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Dr. Vivian Moses DNA website #general

Kevin Brook <samkarsh@...>
 

Wayne,

I have learned that preliminary results >from Dr. Vivian Moses' study
may be available as soon as December of this year. The University
College London homepage of the genetic study being led by Dr. Moses is:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ashkenazim/

For complete coverage of the pros and cons of various genetic
interpretations, along with comprehensive statistical information, see
the summaries and articles at the following link:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Sincerely yours,
Kevin Alan Brook
Author, The Jews of Khazaria


The surname KUVANT and given name Feige #general

JonBorchard@...
 

I have recently tracked down US Social Security card for a relative
Rose TABACHNIK. Her maiden name was KUVENT and they came >from Gostynin,
Poland.

Has anyone ever come across the name KUVENT and is there a usual
translation for the given name Feige - who was Rose's mother??

One final question please - Rose's husband was Max TABACHNIK and they
lived in New York area. Has anyone come across this family??

Many thanks
Jonathan Borchard - London


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The surname KUVANT and given name Feige #general

JonBorchard@...
 

I have recently tracked down US Social Security card for a relative
Rose TABACHNIK. Her maiden name was KUVENT and they came >from Gostynin,
Poland.

Has anyone ever come across the name KUVENT and is there a usual
translation for the given name Feige - who was Rose's mother??

One final question please - Rose's husband was Max TABACHNIK and they
lived in New York area. Has anyone come across this family??

Many thanks
Jonathan Borchard - London


Re: Unfamiliar Yiddish first names #general

Howard Zakai
 

Steven,
Your great-grandmother Bertha's Hebrew name reads Bella Chaya - they are
both common names...
Your great aunt Sylvia's name is Havtola Zlada...
I am not sure what the first name is/means, but the second can be Zlata...
My great-great-grandmother was Lottie in English, but Zlata in Hebrew....
It can also read Zelda, although I was never aware Zelda was a Hebrew
name...
Don't quote me on these.. I can read Hebrew and can recognize most
Hebrew/Yiddish names, but I am not fluent.. I am sure most Genners can
give you a more precise answer..
Howie Zakai
Staten Island & Binghamton, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unfamiliar Yiddish first names #general

Howard Zakai
 

Steven,
Your great-grandmother Bertha's Hebrew name reads Bella Chaya - they are
both common names...
Your great aunt Sylvia's name is Havtola Zlada...
I am not sure what the first name is/means, but the second can be Zlata...
My great-great-grandmother was Lottie in English, but Zlata in Hebrew....
It can also read Zelda, although I was never aware Zelda was a Hebrew
name...
Don't quote me on these.. I can read Hebrew and can recognize most
Hebrew/Yiddish names, but I am not fluent.. I am sure most Genners can
give you a more precise answer..
Howie Zakai
Staten Island & Binghamton, NY


Scharye and Zacharia #general

steve morgan <morgansr@...>
 

I think I found the correct passenger record for my great-grandfather,
Schmarye Baron. The records shows the 3 brothers in the family, the age is
right so I guess I am on the right track. The passenger records show his
father being named "Scharye",but my great grandfather's headstone says
Schmarye Rachmil bar Zacharia.

I am confident that this is the same name but I ask for your opinion.

Thanks to all

Steve Morgan
Wilmington NC


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Scharye and Zacharia #general

steve morgan <morgansr@...>
 

I think I found the correct passenger record for my great-grandfather,
Schmarye Baron. The records shows the 3 brothers in the family, the age is
right so I guess I am on the right track. The passenger records show his
father being named "Scharye",but my great grandfather's headstone says
Schmarye Rachmil bar Zacharia.

I am confident that this is the same name but I ask for your opinion.

Thanks to all

Steve Morgan
Wilmington NC


Removing Ivies from a Gravesite #general

Jim & Sara Feldman <feldmans@...>
 

Reading about the travails of the group who cleaned up some
grave sites in the Baron Hirsch Cemetery, Staten Island, I must
recommend that you be a little more patient and take advantage of
modern chemistry. All woody plants -- and that includes poison ivy
and English ivy -- can be killed using a good defoliant (weed
killer). There are, if fact, special ones that are particularly
effective on ivies. You spray it on the leaves during growing season
and go away for several weeks. Come back in 3 weeks. If there are
still signs of health in the woody weeds, reapply. Two applications
is normally plenty. It kills the plant and that is the end of it.

Be careful not to do this under trees, since the stuff gets
into the root system and is injurious to the tree. It has no impact
(when used as directed) on grass.

After the ivies have died, you will be left with dead stems
and possibly dead and withered leaves. If this is poison ivy, the
allergenic oils may still be present, so care is called for. But
there will be a lot less "stuff" to remove and, and once cut out, it
will stay removed. If you do not use the defoliant or pull out the
root system (very difficult), you might as well not bother.

Good luck.
Jim

Jim Feldman
Newton, MA

MODERATOR NOTE: The original thread was closed. This posting provides
information that is useful to subscribers. Any further new information
will be posted. The original Baron Hirsch Cemetery thread remains closed.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Removing Ivies from a Gravesite #general

Jim & Sara Feldman <feldmans@...>
 

Reading about the travails of the group who cleaned up some
grave sites in the Baron Hirsch Cemetery, Staten Island, I must
recommend that you be a little more patient and take advantage of
modern chemistry. All woody plants -- and that includes poison ivy
and English ivy -- can be killed using a good defoliant (weed
killer). There are, if fact, special ones that are particularly
effective on ivies. You spray it on the leaves during growing season
and go away for several weeks. Come back in 3 weeks. If there are
still signs of health in the woody weeds, reapply. Two applications
is normally plenty. It kills the plant and that is the end of it.

Be careful not to do this under trees, since the stuff gets
into the root system and is injurious to the tree. It has no impact
(when used as directed) on grass.

After the ivies have died, you will be left with dead stems
and possibly dead and withered leaves. If this is poison ivy, the
allergenic oils may still be present, so care is called for. But
there will be a lot less "stuff" to remove and, and once cut out, it
will stay removed. If you do not use the defoliant or pull out the
root system (very difficult), you might as well not bother.

Good luck.
Jim

Jim Feldman
Newton, MA

MODERATOR NOTE: The original thread was closed. This posting provides
information that is useful to subscribers. Any further new information
will be posted. The original Baron Hirsch Cemetery thread remains closed.