Date   
Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

news@...
 

I have been told that there was a period in Poland arround 1880 when the
government did not recognize Jewish marriages. As a result the children
of those marriages who later emigrated were given Polish emigration
documents with their mothers maiden name as their family name. Is this
true? Has anyone discovered a situation like this with their family tree?
Yes. This happened to my boyfriend's family, who took the maternal name of
OHRINGER through the 19th century.

His paternal grandfather says that Jewish marriages were not recognised,
and Civil marriages were conducted in front on a cross, so that he and his
parents were all technically illegitimate as they refused to marry in
front of a cross.

Amanda Jones

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

news@...
 

I have been told that there was a period in Poland arround 1880 when the
government did not recognize Jewish marriages. As a result the children
of those marriages who later emigrated were given Polish emigration
documents with their mothers maiden name as their family name. Is this
true? Has anyone discovered a situation like this with their family tree?
Yes. This happened to my boyfriend's family, who took the maternal name of
OHRINGER through the 19th century.

His paternal grandfather says that Jewish marriages were not recognised,
and Civil marriages were conducted in front on a cross, so that he and his
parents were all technically illegitimate as they refused to marry in
front of a cross.

Amanda Jones

OHRINGER / SEDERBAUM #general

news@...
 

Is anyone investigating or has come across OHRINGER (Lvov, Poland,
pre-1945) of SEDERBAUM (Lodz, Poland, pre-1945).

Both these families left Poland after the war, for Israel and the UK.

Amanda Jones

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen OHRINGER / SEDERBAUM #general

news@...
 

Is anyone investigating or has come across OHRINGER (Lvov, Poland,
pre-1945) of SEDERBAUM (Lodz, Poland, pre-1945).

Both these families left Poland after the war, for Israel and the UK.

Amanda Jones

Re: ben and bit #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

The man in question would be "Yitzhaq ben Yisrael ben Yosef"; in
principal, women be treated the same way, but not as you suggest; she
would be "Rut bat Yisrael ben Yosef". In other words, she is of course
the daughter of her father, but that puts us in the patrilineal line.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:10:56, BUTCHKUCAN@... (MERLE KUCAN) wrote:

I am looking at a bunch of document and was wondering exactly how these
names were used and what sequence they would follow, please privatelly
email if you can help....if mother name was Ruth , her mother was
Elizabeth her mother was Marian. can you give examples of wothey are
used in sequence// also father was Isaac and his father was israel and
his was joseph etc .. thanks for the help

Merle Kucan
mailto:butchkucan@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ben and bit #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

The man in question would be "Yitzhaq ben Yisrael ben Yosef"; in
principal, women be treated the same way, but not as you suggest; she
would be "Rut bat Yisrael ben Yosef". In other words, she is of course
the daughter of her father, but that puts us in the patrilineal line.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:10:56, BUTCHKUCAN@... (MERLE KUCAN) wrote:

I am looking at a bunch of document and was wondering exactly how these
names were used and what sequence they would follow, please privatelly
email if you can help....if mother name was Ruth , her mother was
Elizabeth her mother was Marian. can you give examples of wothey are
used in sequence// also father was Isaac and his father was israel and
his was joseph etc .. thanks for the help

Merle Kucan
mailto:butchkucan@...

Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Though I am not exactly sure what Stanely is referring to, I have found in
the course of interviewing elderly immigrants >from the Galicia area, that it
was not unusual, especially in the small towns or villages for some Jews to
suffice with the Religious Marriage ceremony and never bother to register a
civil marriage with the authorities. The children of these marriages had the
option of taking either surname, and I have heard of instances that children
actually took their mother's maiden surname. I personally have seen a
passport of a woman born in 1865 that was still in her maiden name although
she had been married at the time the passport was issued for more than
thirty years!

Abraham J. Heschel

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Though I am not exactly sure what Stanely is referring to, I have found in
the course of interviewing elderly immigrants >from the Galicia area, that it
was not unusual, especially in the small towns or villages for some Jews to
suffice with the Religious Marriage ceremony and never bother to register a
civil marriage with the authorities. The children of these marriages had the
option of taking either surname, and I have heard of instances that children
actually took their mother's maiden surname. I personally have seen a
passport of a woman born in 1865 that was still in her maiden name although
she had been married at the time the passport was issued for more than
thirty years!

Abraham J. Heschel

Adoption-an interesting dilemma #general

RMJaspan@...
 

Hello-

Prior to a reunion we held over a year ago, we tried to get as much
information for the family tree to be displayed, so it was no longer our
personal family tree, structured however we wanted, since it was going to be
displayed. We had already decided, however, to include all adopted children
without any notation. However, we subsequently found out that 3 adult
siblings were the natural children of their mother's first marriage, but then
adopted by their mother's second husband (all were to attend the reunion).
The mother, we found out, attempted to keep this a secret, and we did think
that the children were the natural children of her second marriage. But when
one of her children was contacted for other information, that child, actually
an adult around 40, asked who we had listed as being the father of the 3
siblings. Naturally, that person was told the mother's second husband. It
was pointed out that although he adopted the 3 of them, the 2 older ones
still maintain contact with the first husband, their natural father, and
wanted to be listed as his children, although the youngest did not have a
relationship with him, therefore wanted to be listed under the father that
adopted that child. In order not to make waves with the adopted father and
natural mother, we decided to keep the siblings together (for reunion
purposes, at least) as the children of the second husband, and thankfully,
everyone just let it pass for the reunion. However, what now? Now the
research is mainly private, but I am thinking of suggesting we submit it to
the Diaspora Museum in Israel for their genealogy center, which is easy to
access, as I have been there. Plus, if someone asks for a copy of the
outline, we typically agree. Any suggestions? In addition, there are some
"skeletons in the closest". Does anyone keep "two sets of books?" If so,
What purpose would the true set of books really hold if it is kept private?


Randi Jaspan, New Jersey
researching JASPAN, YASPAN, YASHPAN, and other variations >from Kovno Gubernia

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Adoption-an interesting dilemma #general

RMJaspan@...
 

Hello-

Prior to a reunion we held over a year ago, we tried to get as much
information for the family tree to be displayed, so it was no longer our
personal family tree, structured however we wanted, since it was going to be
displayed. We had already decided, however, to include all adopted children
without any notation. However, we subsequently found out that 3 adult
siblings were the natural children of their mother's first marriage, but then
adopted by their mother's second husband (all were to attend the reunion).
The mother, we found out, attempted to keep this a secret, and we did think
that the children were the natural children of her second marriage. But when
one of her children was contacted for other information, that child, actually
an adult around 40, asked who we had listed as being the father of the 3
siblings. Naturally, that person was told the mother's second husband. It
was pointed out that although he adopted the 3 of them, the 2 older ones
still maintain contact with the first husband, their natural father, and
wanted to be listed as his children, although the youngest did not have a
relationship with him, therefore wanted to be listed under the father that
adopted that child. In order not to make waves with the adopted father and
natural mother, we decided to keep the siblings together (for reunion
purposes, at least) as the children of the second husband, and thankfully,
everyone just let it pass for the reunion. However, what now? Now the
research is mainly private, but I am thinking of suggesting we submit it to
the Diaspora Museum in Israel for their genealogy center, which is easy to
access, as I have been there. Plus, if someone asks for a copy of the
outline, we typically agree. Any suggestions? In addition, there are some
"skeletons in the closest". Does anyone keep "two sets of books?" If so,
What purpose would the true set of books really hold if it is kept private?


Randi Jaspan, New Jersey
researching JASPAN, YASPAN, YASHPAN, and other variations >from Kovno Gubernia

Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

Let's please not "blame" halacha for this one. This is not an halachic
issue. I mean, it's just a family tree!

It seems to me that you cannot exclude adopted children, but the
adoption must be noted in some way, tho not necessarily openly. If
nothing else, it will keep the future researcher >from searching for a
non-existent birth record.

Israel Pickholtz


Is it acceptable practice to include a blood relative's adopted child in
one's family tree?
I would ask whether it is acceptable to not include the adopted child. If
there is a halachic issue, indicate it in the data, but to drop the child
is not fair to the child, the parents or to those to whom you give the
family tree.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

Let's please not "blame" halacha for this one. This is not an halachic
issue. I mean, it's just a family tree!

It seems to me that you cannot exclude adopted children, but the
adoption must be noted in some way, tho not necessarily openly. If
nothing else, it will keep the future researcher >from searching for a
non-existent birth record.

Israel Pickholtz


Is it acceptable practice to include a blood relative's adopted child in
one's family tree?
I would ask whether it is acceptable to not include the adopted child. If
there is a halachic issue, indicate it in the data, but to drop the child
is not fair to the child, the parents or to those to whom you give the
family tree.

Re: Adopted children in family trees #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

I'm very happy to see that all the messages written by Jewishgeners say the
same thing : first of all, it wouldn't be fair for the adopted child to be
excluded >from the tree of the family who adopted him.

As the mother of five biological children and an adopted one (now aged 30),
my husband and I put his name together with our other children, and these
latters agreed, exactly as they agreed when we received in our home the
little boy aged three weeks, and when we adopted him when aged seven. When
our sixth child has children, these grandchildren of ours will be written
on our family tree along with our fifteen present grandchildren.

Eve Line Blum
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Adopted children in family trees #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

I'm very happy to see that all the messages written by Jewishgeners say the
same thing : first of all, it wouldn't be fair for the adopted child to be
excluded >from the tree of the family who adopted him.

As the mother of five biological children and an adopted one (now aged 30),
my husband and I put his name together with our other children, and these
latters agreed, exactly as they agreed when we received in our home the
little boy aged three weeks, and when we adopted him when aged seven. When
our sixth child has children, these grandchildren of ours will be written
on our family tree along with our fifteen present grandchildren.

Eve Line Blum
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org

Adopted Children #general

David Frey <dfrey@...>
 

from the volume of written reaction I have received I must assume
that I did not make myself clear in my last letter.

I meant to make clear that truth demands that all children be
included. That includes adopted children , illegitimate children and
birth parents, where they are known.

I did not mean to exclude the birth parents if they are known. The
truth about an adoptive child (like me)is that he has two sets of
parents. And a good program like Reunion can cater for that.

When I found my own birth parents at the age of 40, I included them,
and my half brothers, nieces, grandparents, etc.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intent. But a truthful family tree
gives all the facts that are known including adoption, illegitimacy
and many more different situations. If other considerations are
allowed to enter in, then the value of the tree as a piece of
research is diminished.

David Frey
dfrey@...

Researching: Beshincovichi, (GILDINSOHN,, STEINHART)
K'lemnick,(Rabbi Avram Israel GILDINSOHN, GILDEN)
Dryhobitch (FREY), and
Ireland & Canada & USA (WILLIAM WALSH) (Yes I know!)
Warsaw (KAUFMAN, BRAF)

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Adopted Children #general

David Frey <dfrey@...>
 

from the volume of written reaction I have received I must assume
that I did not make myself clear in my last letter.

I meant to make clear that truth demands that all children be
included. That includes adopted children , illegitimate children and
birth parents, where they are known.

I did not mean to exclude the birth parents if they are known. The
truth about an adoptive child (like me)is that he has two sets of
parents. And a good program like Reunion can cater for that.

When I found my own birth parents at the age of 40, I included them,
and my half brothers, nieces, grandparents, etc.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intent. But a truthful family tree
gives all the facts that are known including adoption, illegitimacy
and many more different situations. If other considerations are
allowed to enter in, then the value of the tree as a piece of
research is diminished.

David Frey
dfrey@...

Researching: Beshincovichi, (GILDINSOHN,, STEINHART)
K'lemnick,(Rabbi Avram Israel GILDINSOHN, GILDEN)
Dryhobitch (FREY), and
Ireland & Canada & USA (WILLIAM WALSH) (Yes I know!)
Warsaw (KAUFMAN, BRAF)

Re: Adoption #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

While I totally agree with Mr. Frey's moving words and strongly support
including adopted children in birth trees, for the sake of the parents and
the children and I have noticed that this seems to be the accepted practice
among the Professional Genealogists that I am acquainted with , I think that
it would be important to add a "*" or some sort of annotation to signify
that this is an adopted a child for the following reasons:
Firstly, a later generation or descendant of that family may wish to
research who their natural parents were - in addition to the adopted
parents, and secondly and perhaps more importantly is the fact that
according to the Torah a Kohen (a direct descendant >from Aaron the High
Priest) cannot marry a divorce. There have been situations of people wishing
to live an Orthodox lifestyle yet wishing to marry a divorcee, by
discovering that although the person that they thought was their paternal
grandfather was a Kohen - their father was adopted, and hence they are not a
Kohen and were able to marry the women they wished. In addition to Kohanim
there are various other Halachic ramifications regarding adoption - nearly
all are beneficial to know that they are adopted, as this falls outside the
parameters of this list I would be glad to personally correspond with anyone
on this matter.
Abraham J. Heschel

Brooklyn NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Any comments concerning the religious aspect
of this topic should discussed privately.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Adoption #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

While I totally agree with Mr. Frey's moving words and strongly support
including adopted children in birth trees, for the sake of the parents and
the children and I have noticed that this seems to be the accepted practice
among the Professional Genealogists that I am acquainted with , I think that
it would be important to add a "*" or some sort of annotation to signify
that this is an adopted a child for the following reasons:
Firstly, a later generation or descendant of that family may wish to
research who their natural parents were - in addition to the adopted
parents, and secondly and perhaps more importantly is the fact that
according to the Torah a Kohen (a direct descendant >from Aaron the High
Priest) cannot marry a divorce. There have been situations of people wishing
to live an Orthodox lifestyle yet wishing to marry a divorcee, by
discovering that although the person that they thought was their paternal
grandfather was a Kohen - their father was adopted, and hence they are not a
Kohen and were able to marry the women they wished. In addition to Kohanim
there are various other Halachic ramifications regarding adoption - nearly
all are beneficial to know that they are adopted, as this falls outside the
parameters of this list I would be glad to personally correspond with anyone
on this matter.
Abraham J. Heschel

Brooklyn NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Any comments concerning the religious aspect
of this topic should discussed privately.

searching relative of late Oscar JANOWSKY #general

jsher@...
 

My father, Israel, is searching for the son or daughter of late Oscar and
Pauline JANOWSKY. The son's name is Abba or Ebba , (not sure of English
name) and one daughter is named Evelyn. Oscar Janowsky was my father's
step-uncle. He lost contact with him for many, many years.

Judi Chesler

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen searching relative of late Oscar JANOWSKY #general

jsher@...
 

My father, Israel, is searching for the son or daughter of late Oscar and
Pauline JANOWSKY. The son's name is Abba or Ebba , (not sure of English
name) and one daughter is named Evelyn. Oscar Janowsky was my father's
step-uncle. He lost contact with him for many, many years.

Judi Chesler