Date   

Registering Jewish marriages in Vienna #hungary

Sarah&Laurent Kassel <kassells@...>
 

I'd like to comment on Doug Cohen's following statement:
"I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not
formally
registered their marriage in Vienna."
Vital records were kept by the Jewish community in Vienna since 1826. There
was no other "civil recording" for Jews up to WWII. These records survived
the war and still are kept by the Jewish Community. You should contact them
to find about a specific wedding.

The wedding records give the name of the bride and the groom, their birth
place, the name of their parents, the place of the wedding, the name of the
officiating rabbi.

Best regards,

Laurent Kassel
Moreshet, ISRAEL


Researching: KLINGER (Vienna, Bratislava, Rajka)



_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

George Farkas <george@...>
 

I understand that there was only one marriage per family, but by that, I
understood
that each person could only marry once, that is, second marriages were not
recognized by the state. Indeed, this happened in my family.

george farkas

At 11/28/00 11:21 PM -0800, Vivian Kahn wrote:
Has anyone come across this situation in their research of Hungarian roots?

At 12:00 AM -0600 11/29/00, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
Subject: Re: Jewish Marriages
From: "Doug Cohen" <DMCohen@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:33:52 -0500
X-Message-Number: 51

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.

The result is that a great many couples were married by a Rabbi "according
to the law of Moses and the traditions of Israel", but not according to the
law of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The marriage would therefore not be
recorded by the civil authorities.

Children of such couples would be listed in the Austro-Hungarian metrical
records as illegitimate.

Just another example of legal discrimination against Jews.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA


Dusnok is up for reviewing #hungary

szombat <szombat@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

Dusnok's Jewis cem. (at least the restored stones) is up now.

Family names involved:

Bauer
Gál
Goldgruber
Grün
Griesz
Holzer
Kornfeld
Klein
Lebensfeld
Lussmann
Rokkenstein
Spitzer
Tausig


URL: http://www.geocities.com/winter_peter_4/cemeteries.html

Best wishes,
Winter Peter


Hungary SIG #Hungary Registering Jewish marriages in Vienna #hungary

Sarah&Laurent Kassel <kassells@...>
 

I'd like to comment on Doug Cohen's following statement:
"I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not
formally
registered their marriage in Vienna."
Vital records were kept by the Jewish community in Vienna since 1826. There
was no other "civil recording" for Jews up to WWII. These records survived
the war and still are kept by the Jewish Community. You should contact them
to find about a specific wedding.

The wedding records give the name of the bride and the groom, their birth
place, the name of their parents, the place of the wedding, the name of the
officiating rabbi.

Best regards,

Laurent Kassel
Moreshet, ISRAEL


Researching: KLINGER (Vienna, Bratislava, Rajka)



_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more >from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

George Farkas <george@...>
 

I understand that there was only one marriage per family, but by that, I
understood
that each person could only marry once, that is, second marriages were not
recognized by the state. Indeed, this happened in my family.

george farkas

At 11/28/00 11:21 PM -0800, Vivian Kahn wrote:
Has anyone come across this situation in their research of Hungarian roots?

At 12:00 AM -0600 11/29/00, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
Subject: Re: Jewish Marriages
From: "Doug Cohen" <DMCohen@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:33:52 -0500
X-Message-Number: 51

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.

The result is that a great many couples were married by a Rabbi "according
to the law of Moses and the traditions of Israel", but not according to the
law of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The marriage would therefore not be
recorded by the civil authorities.

Children of such couples would be listed in the Austro-Hungarian metrical
records as illegitimate.

Just another example of legal discrimination against Jews.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Dusnok is up for reviewing #hungary

szombat <szombat@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

Dusnok's Jewis cem. (at least the restored stones) is up now.

Family names involved:

Bauer
Gál
Goldgruber
Grün
Griesz
Holzer
Kornfeld
Klein
Lebensfeld
Lussmann
Rokkenstein
Spitzer
Tausig


URL: http://www.geocities.com/winter_peter_4/cemeteries.html

Best wishes,
Winter Peter


COHEN FROM GUMTREE - FREE STATE - SOUTH AFRICA #southafrica

E Goldstein <eligold@...>
 

I am looking for connections to the following families on behalf of a family
member:


Max Gershon Cohen (not a Kohain) originally of Babtai (Bobt) Lithuania who
married Dora Hurwitz on 20 June 1920.

Max Gershon Cohen's father was Mordechai Leib Cohen who was a Shochet and
Chazan in Bloemfontein in 1903.

Dora Hurwitz's parents were Shlomo Zalmen Hurwitz and Hena Sive Hurwitz

Please contact me on eligold@virtual-ventures.co.za


Eli Goldstein
Johannesburg
South Africa


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica COHEN FROM GUMTREE - FREE STATE - SOUTH AFRICA #southafrica

E Goldstein <eligold@...>
 

I am looking for connections to the following families on behalf of a family
member:


Max Gershon Cohen (not a Kohain) originally of Babtai (Bobt) Lithuania who
married Dora Hurwitz on 20 June 1920.

Max Gershon Cohen's father was Mordechai Leib Cohen who was a Shochet and
Chazan in Bloemfontein in 1903.

Dora Hurwitz's parents were Shlomo Zalmen Hurwitz and Hena Sive Hurwitz

Please contact me on eligold@virtual-ventures.co.za


Eli Goldstein
Johannesburg
South Africa


Batya Unterschatz #ukraine

Dorothy Kohanski <dkohanski@...>
 

I noted Steve Rivkin's message about how great Batya is, and I concur.
However, you may have missed Gary Mokotoff's message on JewishGen a few
days ago that Batys is seriously ill. She is in the Hadassah Hospital
in Ein Kerem (I think room 3, floor 7 according to Gary.) I am sure she
would appreciate prayers and good wishes for a speedy recovery. She is
a national treasure, for sure. If anyone in Israel contacts her, please
send my love.
The most recent e-mail I have for her is <Batyal@netvision.net.il>
Dorothy Kohanski
Laguna Woods, CA


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Batya Unterschatz #ukraine

Dorothy Kohanski <dkohanski@...>
 

I noted Steve Rivkin's message about how great Batya is, and I concur.
However, you may have missed Gary Mokotoff's message on JewishGen a few
days ago that Batys is seriously ill. She is in the Hadassah Hospital
in Ein Kerem (I think room 3, floor 7 according to Gary.) I am sure she
would appreciate prayers and good wishes for a speedy recovery. She is
a national treasure, for sure. If anyone in Israel contacts her, please
send my love.
The most recent e-mail I have for her is <Batyal@netvision.net.il>
Dorothy Kohanski
Laguna Woods, CA


Re: Great book on Eastern European Jewish Life #ukraine

arlene <aparnes@...>
 

I've had the book on my shelf for many years and found it most helpful in
understanding what shtetl life mostly was like.
Arlene Parnes
Orlando, FL
aparnes@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: <BudElWood@aol.com>
Subject: [ukraine] RE: Great book on Eastern European Jewish Life
I very much enjoyed the book Life Is With People, and I found numerous
passages which helped me to understand attitudes of family members, which
I
had not been able to place in perspective within American social contexts.
...
Ellie May Shufro
Researching: KELLER, KALIKA, GLADSTON(E)
NOTE: Messages on this subject will not be posted after tonight's digest.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Great book on Eastern European Jewish Life #ukraine

arlene <aparnes@...>
 

I've had the book on my shelf for many years and found it most helpful in
understanding what shtetl life mostly was like.
Arlene Parnes
Orlando, FL
aparnes@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: <BudElWood@aol.com>
Subject: [ukraine] RE: Great book on Eastern European Jewish Life
I very much enjoyed the book Life Is With People, and I found numerous
passages which helped me to understand attitudes of family members, which
I
had not been able to place in perspective within American social contexts.
...
Ellie May Shufro
Researching: KELLER, KALIKA, GLADSTON(E)
NOTE: Messages on this subject will not be posted after tonight's digest.


Re: Lugin #ukraine

SBernst579@...
 

Is it possible that Lugin may Labun, a small village that was levelel by the
Germans.
Labun was just outside of Polonnoye.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousnd Oaks, CA


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Lugin #ukraine

SBernst579@...
 

Is it possible that Lugin may Labun, a small village that was levelel by the
Germans.
Labun was just outside of Polonnoye.

Stewart Bernstein
Thousnd Oaks, CA


Trip from Ekaterinoslav to Argentina #ukraine

buenos <buenos@...>
 

Hi:Following the comments >from Laurent Kassel,has anybody idea what was the
normal route used in 1890 to travel >from Ekaterisnolav to Argentina?Was
Odessa port used in any way?Thanking in advance.Joseph Bekinschtein


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Trip from Ekaterinoslav to Argentina #ukraine

buenos <buenos@...>
 

Hi:Following the comments >from Laurent Kassel,has anybody idea what was the
normal route used in 1890 to travel >from Ekaterisnolav to Argentina?Was
Odessa port used in any way?Thanking in advance.Joseph Bekinschtein


Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

Aaron Kuperman <akup@...>
 

Until fairly recently (typically the 19th century), no Christian
government recognized a Jewish marriage (or a Christian
marriage). Marriage was traditionally governed by religious law (canon law
or halacha, depending on the individual in question). How individual names
were recorded in official documents is a totally different question.

European Jews generally did not consistently use what we consider to be
"surnames" (family names uniformly reflecting the paternal line) until the
19th century as the earliest. Jews who needed a surname often used the
wife's name if they were (as often occured) living with the wife's family.

Poland did not really exist in 1880. Areas where the Polish langauge was
spoken were divided between Austria (by then Austro-Hungarian Empire, but
everyone knew who was in charge), Russia and Germany. Each country had
different polcies in terms of recording Jewish marriages and legislating
use of surnames among Jews.

Aaron Kuperman

Stanley Winthrop (ak102@freenet.carleton.ca) wrote:
:I have been told that there was a period in Poland arround 1880 when the
:government did not recognize Jewish marriages. As a result the children of
:those marriages who later emigrated were given Polish emigration documents
:with their mothers maiden name as their family name. Is this true? Has
:anyone discovered a situation like this with their family tree?


Re: NYC geography #general

barrychernick@...
 

"And does anyone have the census district for this address? We have
a February 1901 birth there, but the family does not appear in the 1900
indexed census. I thought I might try to find who lived there at the
time."

I looked over some of my old material for 1900 ED's. I believe you are
looking for ED 227 at the north end of Suffolk between Stanton and
Houston Streets . Other ED's to the south, just incase I miss the
address, are 225, 224, 277, 276, 275, 273, and 274. With these ED's and
access to the census records it should be easy to find any address on
Suffolk. My source for 1900 ED's map, available for Manhattan only, is
LDS FHL microfilm number 1033889, Items 5(&4). This same information is
probably available in NYC but I do not know where, Library? City
Archives? NYC Local NARA?

Barry Chernick
Bellevue WA


Part Two re "1900 jobs and salaries in New York" #general

NFatouros@...
 

At least for the time being, this message finishes up my too lengthy
response to Edward Rosenbaum's 11-2 inquiry about 1900 Jobs and salaries
in New York.

Bits and pieces of information about wages and costs of living can be
gleaned >from various paragraphs of Irving Howe's "World of Our Fathers,"
and >from many other accounts of the Lower East Side. Howe talks about the
1902 rise in meat costs made by wholesale butchers, which injured Jewish
retailers. Angry women loosely organized as the "Ladies Anti-Beef Trust
Association" rioted because kosher meat had risen to 17 or 18 cents a
pound. When the wholesalers gave in, the meat retailers failed to reduce
their own prices which the housewives refused to pay. Howe also writes
that in 1904, there was a rent strike, and in that same year, girls went
on strike against a paper box factory which had cut by 10% cut their wages
of $3.00 per thousand cigarette boxes.

Howe also says that during the years between 1913 and 1920, prices
for food and housing rose hugely: food by 199 per cent, shelter by 58 per
cent, clothing by 116 per cent, fuel by 68 per cent, and so on. In this
period Lower East Side women as well as poor women in other cities made
concerted protests against the sharp rise in food and other prices. People
complained they could not manage when potatoes were 7 cents a pound;
bread, 6 cents; cabbage, 20 cents; and onions 18 cents.

Elizabeth Ewen, in "Immigrant Women in the Land of Dollars," cites the
1906 Report of the Mayor's 1906 Pushcart Commission as well as the US
Peddling Commission of Greater New York, neither of which I've read. A
propos of the 6 cent per pound for sugar (see above) Ewen quotes a Lower
East Side shoemaker who complained that a certain grocer charged 8 cents
per pound!

Fictional accounts, like those of Anna Yezierska, are also useful
sources of information. In one story, Yezierska writes that a fish
peddlar demanded 14 and then 15 cents per pound for a large carp, for
which a haggling woman customer ultimately paid 13 cents per pound. I
have read elsewhere that a fellow seeking work upon his arrival agreed
to take a job in the garment industry only to find that he would have to
pay $5.00 to learn how to perform his task. This practice was
corroborated by Gerald Sorin's "The Prophetic Minority" in which the
author mentions, with a cite to a personal interview, that for his new job
in a knee pants shop one immigrant paid a foreman $10 to work for nothing
for two weeks but, contrary to the agreement, a third week of free work
was exacted.

Probably the best sources for statistics of the sort in which Mr.
Rosenbaum, I and other Jewishgenners would be interested are a US
Government 1900 Bureau of Labor Statistics, like the 18th Annual Labor
Commissioner's Report cited above, or some New York City offical report.
I haven't yet tried to find any such sources at I.U.'s Library department
for government documents, but I have found there other types of
government reports and documents, some of which are more than a century
old. These can be retrieved on request >from the Library's archival
depository,and the few that I have examined require delicate handling
because the pages have turned so brittle. I've had to hold my breath
while reading some of these texts lest I blow away a broken fragment of
the pages.

While re-reading the other day an old letter written to me by my
mother, I was reminded that my birth during the Depression had been
largely paid for by my father's mother, Esther. Despite her husband's
probably low wages in the early 20th century Esther and Nathan evidently
saved up something for their old age and could also afford to help out
their architect son for whom there was little work during the 1930's!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Children Use Mother's Maiden Name #general

Aaron Kuperman <akup@...>
 

Until fairly recently (typically the 19th century), no Christian
government recognized a Jewish marriage (or a Christian
marriage). Marriage was traditionally governed by religious law (canon law
or halacha, depending on the individual in question). How individual names
were recorded in official documents is a totally different question.

European Jews generally did not consistently use what we consider to be
"surnames" (family names uniformly reflecting the paternal line) until the
19th century as the earliest. Jews who needed a surname often used the
wife's name if they were (as often occured) living with the wife's family.

Poland did not really exist in 1880. Areas where the Polish langauge was
spoken were divided between Austria (by then Austro-Hungarian Empire, but
everyone knew who was in charge), Russia and Germany. Each country had
different polcies in terms of recording Jewish marriages and legislating
use of surnames among Jews.

Aaron Kuperman

Stanley Winthrop (ak102@freenet.carleton.ca) wrote:
:I have been told that there was a period in Poland arround 1880 when the
:government did not recognize Jewish marriages. As a result the children of
:those marriages who later emigrated were given Polish emigration documents
:with their mothers maiden name as their family name. Is this true? Has
:anyone discovered a situation like this with their family tree?