Date   

Death and Burial in Leeds England #general

Sherry Landa <sherry.landa@...>
 

Hello,

This message is going to two lists so please excuse me if you see it twice.

I have a conundrum.
Setting is Spring 1872, Leeds, Yorkshire, England. The chain of events is
this:

11 April Hannah Maria LANDA is born to an orthodox Jewish family.
16 April Hannah is registered (by her mother, Betsey)
18 May Betsey dies
18 May Betsey's death is registered (by her husband Charles) as LANDOY
cause Pneumonia Phthisis, certified.
18 May Betsey is buried? as LANDEY

Obviously 18 May was a busy day for everyone. It was a Saturday, which
makes it strange to say the least! As Charles LANDA was orthodox, what was
he doing registering his wife's death on a Saturday? I am not Jewish, so
the law is not my strong point but I assumed he shouldn't be doing that,
on a Saturday. The burial? date is possibly an error and is in fact the
death date.

Then this child, Hannah Maria, disappears. She had an older sister who had
married in the February, but she doesn't seem to have gone there. I can not
find her anywhere on the UK 1881 census. One has to assume a small
motherless baby died. So I have searched the death records index. The name
is causing me concern. Hannah Maria...firstly, Hannah had an elder sister
(Hinda Leah) who was known as Hannah (and then later as Annie). Secondly,
obviously Maria, is a little suspicious. A friend suggested maybe Maria was
a *typo* or extraction error. On this basis I checked every last variant
spelling I could think of for a child who died in Leeds in 1872. I came up
with only one possible Millie LANDER, age 0, September qtr 1872. This child
was buried (or died) 17 September 1872, with a given age of 9 months.

I'd like opinions on whether people think it's worth me ordering the death
certificate of Millie, bearing in mind her parents names won't be given,
but that the informant was most likely a family member (probably a
parent). I'd also like to know about the registration of the mother's
death. Would it be that it was more important to register the death on a
Saturday so that burial could take place within the 48 hours, than worry
about the Sabbath rule? Or is registering of deaths not considered *work*
so as long as he walked to the registrar's he had not broken any Sabbath
law? I suppose possibly he went after dark, but in May I doubt the
registrar was available after dark. I do not know their hours in those
days. These days they don't even open on Saturdays except by appointment!

Any ideas?
TIA
Best Wishes,
Sherry Landa (in Salford, Lancs)
sherry.landa@virgin.net


All about GREENBLATT #general

Ada Greenblatt <ada.Greenblatt@...>
 

Inevitably whenever I post a message to this forum, often the only response
that greets it has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but rather a
question asking if I am related to or connected with this or that
GREENBLATT. The latest example was that my message about the upcoming
March 4, 2001 JGSNY "Beyond the Basics" Seminar was met with:

"Do you by any chance have ..."

Since I am getting at least a dozen of these type messages per year, it is
time to set the record straight about the surname GREENBLATT, which is
something I've wanted to do for some time now.

Please note that GREENBLATT was a very common name in pre-war Eastern
Europe. It was as common as the name GOLDBERG is here in New York. In the
JewishGen Family Finder (JGFF) there are currently 46 GREENBLATT's listed
for Belarus, Canada, England, France, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova,
Poland, Romania, Russia, Ukraine, and USA. There are currently 1111
GREENBLATT's listed under <switchboard.com> for what seems like almost all
50 American States. There are currently 788 GREENBLATT's listed in the
Social Security Death Index (including unfortunately my dad, who passed
away 4-1/2 months ago).

As of 1995, there were 504 GREENBLATT's listed in the Pages of Testimony at
Yad Vashem (there are even more now). The GREENBLATT's who perished in the
Shoah were >from every single country in Eastern Europe, including all those
mentioned in the JGFF listing referred to above.

The point I'm making is that one cannot assume that all GREENBLATT's are
related to each other. There are simply too many of them and they were too
widespread in area. In other words, a single-surname research group for
GREENBLATT would not be recommended, as appealing as the idea is.

My Greenblatt's hail >from Lithuania. Even there, GREENBLATT came >from many
different shtetlach (in Lithuania the surname was GRINBLAT, GRINBLIAT, or
GRINBLYAT). According to the JGFF, as well as documents in the All
Lithuania Database, plus other sources, GREENBLATT's in Lithuania were from
Akmene, Cekiske, Dotnuva, Josvainiai, Kaunas, Kedainiai, Klykoliai, Krakes,
Krevo, Kursenai, Laizuva, Panevezys, Papile, Raseiniai, Seredzius, Seta,
Vandziogala, Varena, Vegeriai, Vilijampole, Vilnius, Zagare and Zelva.
Again, because of this wide diversity of Lithuanian towns, one cannot
assume that even all GREENBLATT's >from Lithuania are related.

My GREENBLATT's were >from Seta, Lithuania only (and prior to that they were
from Vandziogala). I have no genealogical knowledge of any other
GREENBLATT's >from any other Lithuanian shtetl, not to mention any other
Eastern European country. My immediate GREENBLATT family settled in
Newburgh, NY and Chicago only.

In the future, before one posts a message to a total stranger asking about
the surname GREENBLATT or any other common surname, it is important to
first check the surname in the JGFF and see if the intended recipient of
your message is listed. In a case like GREENBLATT, it is not enough for
just the surname to match -- both the country and the town of research have
to match as well. It's not a matter of either the country or the town, but
rather both. Otherwise it is an exercise in futility and unproductivity,
both on your part as well as on the part of the person who has to take the
time to negatively respond to your message.

My primary purpose in posting this message is so that it will go into the
JewishGen Discussion Group Archives. Then whenever I get a similar message
about GREENBLATT in the future, instead of going into a whole long megilla,
with the same shpiel over and over again, I can simply refer them to this
particular posting.

Ada Greenblatt
ada.Greenblatt@worldnet.att.net


Re: ROSENBLOOM in Winona, Minnesota #general

Judith Deutsch Bennett <benne034@...>
 

My grandfather Max Rosenbloom and family moved >from NYC to Wynona, MN,
for a short time between 1905-1915 ..SNIP Does anyone have
information about such a family in Wynona?
Gary Ross
evieross@home.co
Hi:

Why don't you do a search in the 1910 census for Winona, Minnesota? It is
a small town and with a bit of time you will probably find them. The 1910
census is not soundexed so you will have to search each district, but the
population was probably quite small so it is do-able. I suspect the
Jewish population was tiny.

Also, there may have been a synagogue in LaCrosse Wisconsin, which is
about 20 minutes away. You could try contacting them.

Judy Bennett
Minneapolis, Mn benne034@tc.umn.edu

Deutsch: Trencsen: Rajec, Kunjerad
Gans: Trencsen: Rajec, Kunjerad
Pick: Trencsen: Zilina
Felix: Slovakia
Klein/Klin: Skidel
Alpert: Grodno, Volkovisk


Jekabpils(Jacobstadt) 1837 Merchants #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I have added a very nice list of the 1837 merchant's families
of Jacobstadt to my Jekabpils shtetlinks page.There are not many families
but enough for you to find interesting if you have family who came >from there.
http://www.jewishgen.org/shtetlinks/jekabpils/jekabpils.htm

Hope you are lucky and find some of your family in the list.
Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


Saul TCHERNICHOVSKY #general

AIChernoff@...
 

For some time, I have been trying to locate information on the genealogy
of the Saul Tchernichovsky family. For someone who has played such an
important role in Jewish literature, poetry (and medicine), it is
surprising that I have found so little information about his origins and
family. I have searched data bases on JewishGen, the Jewish
Encyclopedia, analyses of his writings and poetry (those available in
English) and other reference books with limited success. About all I
have been able to find out about him is that he was born August 20, 1875
in a village (?Belozorka) near the village of Mikailovka in the Ukraine
and that his ancestors came >from the city of Tschernichow in the
Ukraine. Does anyone know of sources of additional information about
this man? Your help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Amoz Chernoff
Potomac, MD


WELLISCH in Dukla, Galicia #general

Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
 

I received a few days ago a list, published by the Jewish World Congress,
of 3505 Holocaust victims who had insurance policies with the Generali
Insurance Company. On that list is a Samuel WELLISCH >from Dukla.
Some years ago Yad Vashem sent me 72 Pages of Testimony of people with the
name of WELLISCH and amomngst them was a Samuel WELLISCH >from Dukla. (no
relation of mine). The person who submitted in 1955 the name of Samuel W.
was Shimon WELLISCH (a brother of Samuel), living at Rechov Reines? , Tel
Aviv. I contacted Batya Unterschatz and she was able to trace Shimon
WELLISCH , to Yavne Street in Holon. . She also added the note: Most
probably not alive.
There seems to be little doubt that the Samuel WELLISCH listed as a policy
holder and the one submitted by Shimon WELLISCH is the same person.
Is there someone in Israel, or anywhere else, who knows descendants of
SHIMON WELLISCH, born 1899, son of Josef WELLISCH, who arrived in Palestine
in 1933 ?
Henry Wellisch
Toronto


FINKELSTEIN possibly from Zgleczewo Szlacheckie #general

Leeson, Corey <cleeson@...>
 

I am looking for some help on my FINKELSTEIN ancestors. On an old family
tree made in the sixties, I have the name of a shtetl where my GGGrandfater
was born as Yellosoret. I have had all kinds of trouble trying to find out
where this town is, or what another spelling might be. Using the shtetl
finder I have found a possible match as Zgleczewo Szlacheckie. Is this a
likely match, or can someone think of another possiblity? Also using the
JRI Poland on line I did find a lot of Finkelsteins that lived near the
coordinates of this town. However, no records for this town exist on JRI.
Does this mean records do not exist, or that the town was too small to have
its own records, and they are included with another town?

If this is the correct town I believe I may have found a first cousin to my
GGGrandfather, as there is a Jukiel FINKELSZTEJN born in 1854 in Kosow
Lacki parents Dawid and Ester which is only 7.2 miles away >from Zgleczewo
Szlacheckie. My GGGrandfather is Jecheel FINKELSTEIN, and his parents were
Jesha (Joshua) and Rachel Finkelstein. I don't have a birth year for him,
but it was likely similar in time to 1854, because his daughter, my
GGrandmother was born in 1880.

Any recommendations on the next step to take?

Corey Leeson
Cleveland, Ohio


ViewMate help -- Tombstone #general

Laurie Sans <lsans@...>
 

I have placed a picture of part of my great-grandfather's tombstone on
ViewMate. I cannot read Hebrew so I would appreciate it if someone would
translate it for me. It can be found at ViewMate VM272.

In advance, thank you for your help.

Laurie Sans
lsans@bright.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Death and Burial in Leeds England #general

Sherry Landa <sherry.landa@...>
 

Hello,

This message is going to two lists so please excuse me if you see it twice.

I have a conundrum.
Setting is Spring 1872, Leeds, Yorkshire, England. The chain of events is
this:

11 April Hannah Maria LANDA is born to an orthodox Jewish family.
16 April Hannah is registered (by her mother, Betsey)
18 May Betsey dies
18 May Betsey's death is registered (by her husband Charles) as LANDOY
cause Pneumonia Phthisis, certified.
18 May Betsey is buried? as LANDEY

Obviously 18 May was a busy day for everyone. It was a Saturday, which
makes it strange to say the least! As Charles LANDA was orthodox, what was
he doing registering his wife's death on a Saturday? I am not Jewish, so
the law is not my strong point but I assumed he shouldn't be doing that,
on a Saturday. The burial? date is possibly an error and is in fact the
death date.

Then this child, Hannah Maria, disappears. She had an older sister who had
married in the February, but she doesn't seem to have gone there. I can not
find her anywhere on the UK 1881 census. One has to assume a small
motherless baby died. So I have searched the death records index. The name
is causing me concern. Hannah Maria...firstly, Hannah had an elder sister
(Hinda Leah) who was known as Hannah (and then later as Annie). Secondly,
obviously Maria, is a little suspicious. A friend suggested maybe Maria was
a *typo* or extraction error. On this basis I checked every last variant
spelling I could think of for a child who died in Leeds in 1872. I came up
with only one possible Millie LANDER, age 0, September qtr 1872. This child
was buried (or died) 17 September 1872, with a given age of 9 months.

I'd like opinions on whether people think it's worth me ordering the death
certificate of Millie, bearing in mind her parents names won't be given,
but that the informant was most likely a family member (probably a
parent). I'd also like to know about the registration of the mother's
death. Would it be that it was more important to register the death on a
Saturday so that burial could take place within the 48 hours, than worry
about the Sabbath rule? Or is registering of deaths not considered *work*
so as long as he walked to the registrar's he had not broken any Sabbath
law? I suppose possibly he went after dark, but in May I doubt the
registrar was available after dark. I do not know their hours in those
days. These days they don't even open on Saturdays except by appointment!

Any ideas?
TIA
Best Wishes,
Sherry Landa (in Salford, Lancs)
sherry.landa@virgin.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen All about GREENBLATT #general

Ada Greenblatt <ada.Greenblatt@...>
 

Inevitably whenever I post a message to this forum, often the only response
that greets it has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but rather a
question asking if I am related to or connected with this or that
GREENBLATT. The latest example was that my message about the upcoming
March 4, 2001 JGSNY "Beyond the Basics" Seminar was met with:

"Do you by any chance have ..."

Since I am getting at least a dozen of these type messages per year, it is
time to set the record straight about the surname GREENBLATT, which is
something I've wanted to do for some time now.

Please note that GREENBLATT was a very common name in pre-war Eastern
Europe. It was as common as the name GOLDBERG is here in New York. In the
JewishGen Family Finder (JGFF) there are currently 46 GREENBLATT's listed
for Belarus, Canada, England, France, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova,
Poland, Romania, Russia, Ukraine, and USA. There are currently 1111
GREENBLATT's listed under <switchboard.com> for what seems like almost all
50 American States. There are currently 788 GREENBLATT's listed in the
Social Security Death Index (including unfortunately my dad, who passed
away 4-1/2 months ago).

As of 1995, there were 504 GREENBLATT's listed in the Pages of Testimony at
Yad Vashem (there are even more now). The GREENBLATT's who perished in the
Shoah were >from every single country in Eastern Europe, including all those
mentioned in the JGFF listing referred to above.

The point I'm making is that one cannot assume that all GREENBLATT's are
related to each other. There are simply too many of them and they were too
widespread in area. In other words, a single-surname research group for
GREENBLATT would not be recommended, as appealing as the idea is.

My Greenblatt's hail >from Lithuania. Even there, GREENBLATT came >from many
different shtetlach (in Lithuania the surname was GRINBLAT, GRINBLIAT, or
GRINBLYAT). According to the JGFF, as well as documents in the All
Lithuania Database, plus other sources, GREENBLATT's in Lithuania were from
Akmene, Cekiske, Dotnuva, Josvainiai, Kaunas, Kedainiai, Klykoliai, Krakes,
Krevo, Kursenai, Laizuva, Panevezys, Papile, Raseiniai, Seredzius, Seta,
Vandziogala, Varena, Vegeriai, Vilijampole, Vilnius, Zagare and Zelva.
Again, because of this wide diversity of Lithuanian towns, one cannot
assume that even all GREENBLATT's >from Lithuania are related.

My GREENBLATT's were >from Seta, Lithuania only (and prior to that they were
from Vandziogala). I have no genealogical knowledge of any other
GREENBLATT's >from any other Lithuanian shtetl, not to mention any other
Eastern European country. My immediate GREENBLATT family settled in
Newburgh, NY and Chicago only.

In the future, before one posts a message to a total stranger asking about
the surname GREENBLATT or any other common surname, it is important to
first check the surname in the JGFF and see if the intended recipient of
your message is listed. In a case like GREENBLATT, it is not enough for
just the surname to match -- both the country and the town of research have
to match as well. It's not a matter of either the country or the town, but
rather both. Otherwise it is an exercise in futility and unproductivity,
both on your part as well as on the part of the person who has to take the
time to negatively respond to your message.

My primary purpose in posting this message is so that it will go into the
JewishGen Discussion Group Archives. Then whenever I get a similar message
about GREENBLATT in the future, instead of going into a whole long megilla,
with the same shpiel over and over again, I can simply refer them to this
particular posting.

Ada Greenblatt
ada.Greenblatt@worldnet.att.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ROSENBLOOM in Winona, Minnesota #general

Judith Deutsch Bennett <benne034@...>
 

My grandfather Max Rosenbloom and family moved >from NYC to Wynona, MN,
for a short time between 1905-1915 ..SNIP Does anyone have
information about such a family in Wynona?
Gary Ross
evieross@home.co
Hi:

Why don't you do a search in the 1910 census for Winona, Minnesota? It is
a small town and with a bit of time you will probably find them. The 1910
census is not soundexed so you will have to search each district, but the
population was probably quite small so it is do-able. I suspect the
Jewish population was tiny.

Also, there may have been a synagogue in LaCrosse Wisconsin, which is
about 20 minutes away. You could try contacting them.

Judy Bennett
Minneapolis, Mn benne034@tc.umn.edu

Deutsch: Trencsen: Rajec, Kunjerad
Gans: Trencsen: Rajec, Kunjerad
Pick: Trencsen: Zilina
Felix: Slovakia
Klein/Klin: Skidel
Alpert: Grodno, Volkovisk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jekabpils(Jacobstadt) 1837 Merchants #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I have added a very nice list of the 1837 merchant's families
of Jacobstadt to my Jekabpils shtetlinks page.There are not many families
but enough for you to find interesting if you have family who came >from there.
http://www.jewishgen.org/shtetlinks/jekabpils/jekabpils.htm

Hope you are lucky and find some of your family in the list.
Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Saul TCHERNICHOVSKY #general

AIChernoff@...
 

For some time, I have been trying to locate information on the genealogy
of the Saul Tchernichovsky family. For someone who has played such an
important role in Jewish literature, poetry (and medicine), it is
surprising that I have found so little information about his origins and
family. I have searched data bases on JewishGen, the Jewish
Encyclopedia, analyses of his writings and poetry (those available in
English) and other reference books with limited success. About all I
have been able to find out about him is that he was born August 20, 1875
in a village (?Belozorka) near the village of Mikailovka in the Ukraine
and that his ancestors came >from the city of Tschernichow in the
Ukraine. Does anyone know of sources of additional information about
this man? Your help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Amoz Chernoff
Potomac, MD


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WELLISCH in Dukla, Galicia #general

Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
 

I received a few days ago a list, published by the Jewish World Congress,
of 3505 Holocaust victims who had insurance policies with the Generali
Insurance Company. On that list is a Samuel WELLISCH >from Dukla.
Some years ago Yad Vashem sent me 72 Pages of Testimony of people with the
name of WELLISCH and amomngst them was a Samuel WELLISCH >from Dukla. (no
relation of mine). The person who submitted in 1955 the name of Samuel W.
was Shimon WELLISCH (a brother of Samuel), living at Rechov Reines? , Tel
Aviv. I contacted Batya Unterschatz and she was able to trace Shimon
WELLISCH , to Yavne Street in Holon. . She also added the note: Most
probably not alive.
There seems to be little doubt that the Samuel WELLISCH listed as a policy
holder and the one submitted by Shimon WELLISCH is the same person.
Is there someone in Israel, or anywhere else, who knows descendants of
SHIMON WELLISCH, born 1899, son of Josef WELLISCH, who arrived in Palestine
in 1933 ?
Henry Wellisch
Toronto


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FINKELSTEIN possibly from Zgleczewo Szlacheckie #general

Leeson, Corey <cleeson@...>
 

I am looking for some help on my FINKELSTEIN ancestors. On an old family
tree made in the sixties, I have the name of a shtetl where my GGGrandfater
was born as Yellosoret. I have had all kinds of trouble trying to find out
where this town is, or what another spelling might be. Using the shtetl
finder I have found a possible match as Zgleczewo Szlacheckie. Is this a
likely match, or can someone think of another possiblity? Also using the
JRI Poland on line I did find a lot of Finkelsteins that lived near the
coordinates of this town. However, no records for this town exist on JRI.
Does this mean records do not exist, or that the town was too small to have
its own records, and they are included with another town?

If this is the correct town I believe I may have found a first cousin to my
GGGrandfather, as there is a Jukiel FINKELSZTEJN born in 1854 in Kosow
Lacki parents Dawid and Ester which is only 7.2 miles away >from Zgleczewo
Szlacheckie. My GGGrandfather is Jecheel FINKELSTEIN, and his parents were
Jesha (Joshua) and Rachel Finkelstein. I don't have a birth year for him,
but it was likely similar in time to 1854, because his daughter, my
GGrandmother was born in 1880.

Any recommendations on the next step to take?

Corey Leeson
Cleveland, Ohio


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate help -- Tombstone #general

Laurie Sans <lsans@...>
 

I have placed a picture of part of my great-grandfather's tombstone on
ViewMate. I cannot read Hebrew so I would appreciate it if someone would
translate it for me. It can be found at ViewMate VM272.

In advance, thank you for your help.

Laurie Sans
lsans@bright.net


Re: Polish Legion of French Army & POW's #general

Tomek Liniecki <liniecki@...>
 

U¿ytkownik Anne Lifshitz-Krams <alkrams@free.fr>
Maybe I am mistaking, but I never heard of a Polish Legion in French
army.
You are both wrong and right at the same time. The troops were named Polish
Army in France, not a Legion. The Army existed >from winter 1939/40 till
summer 1940. After the collapse of French Republic in 1940 the army was
evacuated to British Isles. There's a lot of reference on that topic, but
mostly in Polish.

Regards,
Tomasz Linetzky


Re: "Polish legion" in France, WWII #general

Rosanne D. Leeson <leeson1@...>
 

Dear Genners,

There were a couple of posts within the last week asking about a "Polish
Legion" in the French Army during WWII. Anne Lifshitz-Krams of the
Cercle de Genealogie Juive responded that to her kowledge there was no
such Legion, but suggested instead a membership in a resistance group.

Interestingly, in today's New York Times (1/9/01) there is an article on
the first page of the Arts section, which discusses a film made in
France in the 1980's which provoked quite a storm at that time. The
title is "French film bears witness to wartkime complicity". It can be
read online today on the Ny Times site: www.nytimes.com The film
entitles," Terrorists in retirement" is being shown in New York for 2
weeks beginning Wed., at the Film Forum in the South Village.

In brief, the film deals with survivors of a group of some 200 East
European Jews who had joined the French Resistance, including an armed
Communist group, mainly Jews, who carried out assassinations and
bombings of Nazi targets in Paris. This group was called the Immigrant
Workers (Main d'Oeuvre Immigree), which was in turn linked to the
Communist Party's Franc-Tireurs et Partisans, and known by the acronym
FTP-MOI. MAny were caught and executed, and others felt that they had
been betrayed by the French Communist party, and not smuggled to safety
as were their French counterparts.

Perhaps this was the group being asked about on this list? At any rate,
it is a fascinating and moving story, and one not well-known over here.

Rosanne Leeson
Los ALtos, CA USA
Leeson1@attglobal.net


Re: Alt Name for Varos Nameny, near Kosice #general

lajos.varga@...
 

Hi Joan,

I've answered Your question already three times to soc.genealogy.jewish
NG trough www.deja.com, but they have'nt published yet.
In the meantime I've discovered the mistake: one can'nt answer the questin
directly to the moderated NG!

I think the town "Varos Nameny" You are looking for, is the town
Vasarosnameny(Vásárosnamény) in eastern Hungary (Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg
county).

You can finde this place on the following map:
http://www.ffg.sulinet.hu/hat96/zavarko/megyek/SZABOLCS.GIF

"Vranov nad Toplou" is called Varranó in hungarian.

I hope I could help You.

With regards

Lajos L. Varga, Dipl.Ing.
BERN
Schweiz


My family tree #general

Carmi Opler <boazop@...>
 

To all Geners,
I am lookinig for my roots in Poland and I would appreciate any kind
of help.
The names I am looking for are:
OPLER , BERLINER, GELBARD, GLICK, LANGIER,RUDOLER, WAJSALTS- from
Bendin/Bedzin-Poland.
FINKEL,SNOPKOWSKY, TROPAWER- >from Zarky -Poland.
BETTER,DURST, GRAWER, IGRA, VOLNERMAN- >from Cestochowa and/or Osweciem.
Thanks
Iseec Opler
boazop@netvision.net.il