Date   

Thank you, and another story #belarus

JSimpson@...
 

Hello All,

I hope this goes out. The other day I could not even post to the
address, it kept getting returned. And I haven't received any messages in a
while.
Anyway, I wanted to thank all who responded to me about translating that
response I got back >from the Archives in Grodno. I have mailed a copy to
Miriam Weiner and she will help me with it.
It seems >from the collective response that it isn't a good idea to
give them any money. I will consider that advice. Thank you!!!! It's
heartbreaking to know that so much info that would be like gold to so many
is so hard to get at.
I wanted to share another story regarding my g-g-grandfather's
exodus >from Brest Litovsk in 1870's. This was in the wake of the failed 1863
uprising, and the Russian backlash I am sure was devastating to many Jewish
families all over Belarus. Now, I was told by a family member that
Thomas'(not his birth name...don't know that yet) parents feared for his
future there, especially that he would be taken into the Russian army.
Thomas said he, as a child, had terrible memories of the Cossacks thundering
into town, killing anyone in their path. And, I read in another memorial
book (I think it was the english translation of Luboml, or maybe Eishyshok)
that parents often resorted to mutilation to keep their sons >from being
qualified for service to the czar. In fact, at some point, the army took a
Jewish boy into the army who had gouged an eye out, just to make the
statement that mutilation won't work with the army...they would still take
them into the army regardless. Well, the story in my family goes that
Thomas' parents took little Thomas to "an old hag of a woman" who "injected"
something into his spine to give him a permanant curvature that would
disqualify him. I don't know the nature of this injection. I asked a doctor
friend if he knew of something, some injection, that could do this, and he
did not. I don't even know if they had injection needles back then. I have
read that some in the Jewish community had a superstitious streak and would
at times resort to folk rememdies, and even sorceries. I read of one Rabbi
saying it was ok to resort to sorcery for medical reasons! And I don't know
the nature of this woman...maybe a gypsy healer or peasant or something.
Maybe she did some "hocus pocus" over my great-great grandfather. But, whats
interesting is that for the rest of his life, Thomas always had a hunched
over look.


Sincerely,

Joe Simpson
Glens Falls, NY
searching for Rosenfelds in Brest


Grodno Archive Orders #belarus

SoniaHoff1@...
 

In response to Joseph Simpson's posting about placing an research order
with the Belarus Archive in Grodno, he wrote in part:

Has anybody tried this deal?
I just wanted to check before I sent them any money.
Here is my experience. I received the first letter (probably the same
one Joseph received) in response to my first inquiry, asking about what
records the archive held for my town (Kuznica). They were asking for
$80 and gave instructions for wiring it, but I sent them a bank check
instead because I felt the wire transfer was too expensive. I had a
cousin who speaks Russian phone them to ask if this was ok before I
sent the check. The order was filled in less than two months, sent in
a one-page letter in Russian.

The records for Kuznica which on which our surname was found were:
the 1834 Revision List (5 families), the 1851 alphabetical index of
male residents (two families), the 1912 Duma Voters List, 1881 Box Tax
Contract, 1882 Rabbi Electors list, a Tax Farmer Application >from 1885,
a Kuznica Jewish Community resolution >from 1896 re: the election of a
maggid.

Of course I do not know how thorough the search was or if all available
documents were searched, and I am planning to write again to ask if I
can obtain copies of some of these documents to see if any additional
information is included. I had to take the chance by sending the $80
since they did not answer my first inquiry about what records were
available. Our cousins, who have been researching the same family and
town for many years, were very happy with these results, especially
because we were able to tie together several branches with the 1834
information. I was particularly pleased to see that Jewish Community
records were searched in addition to Revision Lists, but disappointed
that there do not seem to be any vital records. I am sure that the
types of records available will vary >from town to town, and there is
no guarantee that there are any records for some towns.

I hesitated to post this information since the leadership of the
BelarusSIG is opposed to placing private orders instead of waiting
for these records to be microfilmed, but I was encouraged by the
results other people have received >from the archives. As to the price,
though $80 is a huge amount of money in Belarus, it is close to the
research fee charged in Lithuania ($70).

I know that the archivists have been in communication with each other
in the past and that the Belarussian archivists have been encouraged to
provide genealogical services, as has been done in Lithuania for the
past several years.

Sonia Hoffman
JGS Los Angeles

COORDINATOR'S NOTE: The leadership of the SIG has no problem with members
posting differing opinions. If someone wants to write directly to the
archives in Belarus that is certainly their right. However, based on what
we know, as long as people are willing to send large amounts of money to
the Archives, we believe that it will delay the filming of more records by
the FHL. Certainly $80 is not a huge amount, but >from what I understand,
that only gets you the names of the record groups wherethe surname you are
researching appears. Please keep in mind that the monthly salary for a
physcian in Belarus is between $30 to $40. DMF


National Archive Rates #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Dear All,

In recent months it has become apparent that some researchers in the employ
of the Belarus Archives have attempted to monopolise all requests for
research. Prime amongst these is an individual involved in a firm which has
figured prominently in recent discussions on the SIG. The archive itself
has attempted also, at about the same rates as these researchers, to control
access to records.

At the moment the official National Archive rates are as follows:
1. Family name search $80.00; This is just an initial search to
determine if information exists in the archive. If it does the archive
‘negotiates’ a price for releasing the information. You can pretty much
count on a charge of at least $200.00 on top of the original $80.00
2. A full search with a family tree will cost $500.00; that’s on top,
once again, of the original $80.00. None of this includes copies or
translations. By the time one’s finished the total price will be $700-$800.
I think all of this underlines the point that I made several months ago:
any arrangement which results in the archive being the sole provider of
research will result in deep price gouging.

It is still possible, however, to have private research done by reliable
researchers. Again, I should point out that I am not a disinterested party
and that the East European Jewish Heritage Project does derive funding from
genealogical research. Consequently we can be seen to be competitors to the
archive and to other researchers. The price information above, then, should
be seen as factual while the rest of this message is opinion.

Best regards,

Frank


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project Ltd (USA)
East European Jewish Heritage Project (UK)
Jewish Revival Charitable Mission (Republic of Belarus)
13b Dauman Street
Minsk 220002
Belarus
Tel/Fax: +375 17 234 3360
eejhp@yahoo.com
http://eejhp.tripod.ca <http://eejhp.tripod.ca/>
SAVE LIVES AND TRADITIONS, DONATE NOW: http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm
<http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm>


Belarus SIG #Belarus Thank you, and another story #belarus

JSimpson@...
 

Hello All,

I hope this goes out. The other day I could not even post to the
address, it kept getting returned. And I haven't received any messages in a
while.
Anyway, I wanted to thank all who responded to me about translating that
response I got back >from the Archives in Grodno. I have mailed a copy to
Miriam Weiner and she will help me with it.
It seems >from the collective response that it isn't a good idea to
give them any money. I will consider that advice. Thank you!!!! It's
heartbreaking to know that so much info that would be like gold to so many
is so hard to get at.
I wanted to share another story regarding my g-g-grandfather's
exodus >from Brest Litovsk in 1870's. This was in the wake of the failed 1863
uprising, and the Russian backlash I am sure was devastating to many Jewish
families all over Belarus. Now, I was told by a family member that
Thomas'(not his birth name...don't know that yet) parents feared for his
future there, especially that he would be taken into the Russian army.
Thomas said he, as a child, had terrible memories of the Cossacks thundering
into town, killing anyone in their path. And, I read in another memorial
book (I think it was the english translation of Luboml, or maybe Eishyshok)
that parents often resorted to mutilation to keep their sons >from being
qualified for service to the czar. In fact, at some point, the army took a
Jewish boy into the army who had gouged an eye out, just to make the
statement that mutilation won't work with the army...they would still take
them into the army regardless. Well, the story in my family goes that
Thomas' parents took little Thomas to "an old hag of a woman" who "injected"
something into his spine to give him a permanant curvature that would
disqualify him. I don't know the nature of this injection. I asked a doctor
friend if he knew of something, some injection, that could do this, and he
did not. I don't even know if they had injection needles back then. I have
read that some in the Jewish community had a superstitious streak and would
at times resort to folk rememdies, and even sorceries. I read of one Rabbi
saying it was ok to resort to sorcery for medical reasons! And I don't know
the nature of this woman...maybe a gypsy healer or peasant or something.
Maybe she did some "hocus pocus" over my great-great grandfather. But, whats
interesting is that for the rest of his life, Thomas always had a hunched
over look.


Sincerely,

Joe Simpson
Glens Falls, NY
searching for Rosenfelds in Brest


Belarus SIG #Belarus Grodno Archive Orders #belarus

SoniaHoff1@...
 

In response to Joseph Simpson's posting about placing an research order
with the Belarus Archive in Grodno, he wrote in part:

Has anybody tried this deal?
I just wanted to check before I sent them any money.
Here is my experience. I received the first letter (probably the same
one Joseph received) in response to my first inquiry, asking about what
records the archive held for my town (Kuznica). They were asking for
$80 and gave instructions for wiring it, but I sent them a bank check
instead because I felt the wire transfer was too expensive. I had a
cousin who speaks Russian phone them to ask if this was ok before I
sent the check. The order was filled in less than two months, sent in
a one-page letter in Russian.

The records for Kuznica which on which our surname was found were:
the 1834 Revision List (5 families), the 1851 alphabetical index of
male residents (two families), the 1912 Duma Voters List, 1881 Box Tax
Contract, 1882 Rabbi Electors list, a Tax Farmer Application >from 1885,
a Kuznica Jewish Community resolution >from 1896 re: the election of a
maggid.

Of course I do not know how thorough the search was or if all available
documents were searched, and I am planning to write again to ask if I
can obtain copies of some of these documents to see if any additional
information is included. I had to take the chance by sending the $80
since they did not answer my first inquiry about what records were
available. Our cousins, who have been researching the same family and
town for many years, were very happy with these results, especially
because we were able to tie together several branches with the 1834
information. I was particularly pleased to see that Jewish Community
records were searched in addition to Revision Lists, but disappointed
that there do not seem to be any vital records. I am sure that the
types of records available will vary >from town to town, and there is
no guarantee that there are any records for some towns.

I hesitated to post this information since the leadership of the
BelarusSIG is opposed to placing private orders instead of waiting
for these records to be microfilmed, but I was encouraged by the
results other people have received >from the archives. As to the price,
though $80 is a huge amount of money in Belarus, it is close to the
research fee charged in Lithuania ($70).

I know that the archivists have been in communication with each other
in the past and that the Belarussian archivists have been encouraged to
provide genealogical services, as has been done in Lithuania for the
past several years.

Sonia Hoffman
JGS Los Angeles

COORDINATOR'S NOTE: The leadership of the SIG has no problem with members
posting differing opinions. If someone wants to write directly to the
archives in Belarus that is certainly their right. However, based on what
we know, as long as people are willing to send large amounts of money to
the Archives, we believe that it will delay the filming of more records by
the FHL. Certainly $80 is not a huge amount, but >from what I understand,
that only gets you the names of the record groups wherethe surname you are
researching appears. Please keep in mind that the monthly salary for a
physcian in Belarus is between $30 to $40. DMF


Belarus SIG #Belarus National Archive Rates #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Dear All,

In recent months it has become apparent that some researchers in the employ
of the Belarus Archives have attempted to monopolise all requests for
research. Prime amongst these is an individual involved in a firm which has
figured prominently in recent discussions on the SIG. The archive itself
has attempted also, at about the same rates as these researchers, to control
access to records.

At the moment the official National Archive rates are as follows:
1. Family name search $80.00; This is just an initial search to
determine if information exists in the archive. If it does the archive
‘negotiates’ a price for releasing the information. You can pretty much
count on a charge of at least $200.00 on top of the original $80.00
2. A full search with a family tree will cost $500.00; that’s on top,
once again, of the original $80.00. None of this includes copies or
translations. By the time one’s finished the total price will be $700-$800.
I think all of this underlines the point that I made several months ago:
any arrangement which results in the archive being the sole provider of
research will result in deep price gouging.

It is still possible, however, to have private research done by reliable
researchers. Again, I should point out that I am not a disinterested party
and that the East European Jewish Heritage Project does derive funding from
genealogical research. Consequently we can be seen to be competitors to the
archive and to other researchers. The price information above, then, should
be seen as factual while the rest of this message is opinion.

Best regards,

Frank


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project Ltd (USA)
East European Jewish Heritage Project (UK)
Jewish Revival Charitable Mission (Republic of Belarus)
13b Dauman Street
Minsk 220002
Belarus
Tel/Fax: +375 17 234 3360
eejhp@yahoo.com
http://eejhp.tripod.ca <http://eejhp.tripod.ca/>
SAVE LIVES AND TRADITIONS, DONATE NOW: http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm
<http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm>


Frankel - Franzos #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

The surname Frankel is generally considered to originate with French
Jews who lived in Germany. Is Franzos a Polish version of the same
thing? That is, would a Frankel who went to live in Poland (or in our
case, Galicia) naturally become Franzos the same way that a
Yakobowitz moving west might become Jacobson or a Stein become
Stone?

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Frankel - Franzos #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

The surname Frankel is generally considered to originate with French
Jews who lived in Germany. Is Franzos a Polish version of the same
thing? That is, would a Frankel who went to live in Poland (or in our
case, Galicia) naturally become Franzos the same way that a
Yakobowitz moving west might become Jacobson or a Stein become
Stone?

Israel Pickholtz


solved: Ilanot-an amazing coincidence #general

Stu Horwitz <Stu_and_Bobbie@...>
 

Several months ago, I reported finding part of my family tree on the back
of a software box, Ilanot, which is sold by Beth Hatefusoth. The mystery
of how it got there has been solved! The tree was apparently submitted to
the data base by Menahem Fogel, a systems person at Beth Hatefusoth, who
worked on Ilanot and the design of the package. He got the Family tree
info >from a cousin who had gotten it indirectly >from Ann Rabinowitz, our
local Kupiskis archivist. A coincidence still remains because he got a
hand written copy, so it's not complete. The only names >from my branch of
the family (which I would have recognized) are the ones which appeared on
the Box.


So as a result of all this, I have made contact with a new cousin and
have many more names to add to my family tree. Thanx to all of you who
responded to my inquiries.

Stu Horwitz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen solved: Ilanot-an amazing coincidence #general

Stu Horwitz <Stu_and_Bobbie@...>
 

Several months ago, I reported finding part of my family tree on the back
of a software box, Ilanot, which is sold by Beth Hatefusoth. The mystery
of how it got there has been solved! The tree was apparently submitted to
the data base by Menahem Fogel, a systems person at Beth Hatefusoth, who
worked on Ilanot and the design of the package. He got the Family tree
info >from a cousin who had gotten it indirectly >from Ann Rabinowitz, our
local Kupiskis archivist. A coincidence still remains because he got a
hand written copy, so it's not complete. The only names >from my branch of
the family (which I would have recognized) are the ones which appeared on
the Box.


So as a result of all this, I have made contact with a new cousin and
have many more names to add to my family tree. Thanx to all of you who
responded to my inquiries.

Stu Horwitz


Re: Names Chaje and Chajake #general

hennynow
 

Barry,

I would guess that "Chaje" is the Yiddish pronunciation of "Chaiyah,"
Hebrew feminine version of "Chaiym" (meaning "life").

Therefore, "Chajake[h])" would be the affectionate diminutive = little
Chaiyah.

Henny


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Names Chaje and Chajake #general

hennynow
 

Barry,

I would guess that "Chaje" is the Yiddish pronunciation of "Chaiyah,"
Hebrew feminine version of "Chaiym" (meaning "life").

Therefore, "Chajake[h])" would be the affectionate diminutive = little
Chaiyah.

Henny


Re: Great Map Site - Eureka! #general

haflo <haflo@...>
 

I wanted to share my excitement with fellow JewishGenners. Thanks, David,
whoever you are!! Although I've learned so much >from my involvement in
JewishGen over the years, this is the first time a clue has actually led me
closer to direct information bearing on my family research. I used the map
site referred to below, & after playing around with different views of
Cherkassy, the city in which my GGrandfather died, I was stunned to find
the town where I'd been told he was "from". I could never pinpoint
Zavadovka before (partly because I was unsure of the spelling &
pronunciation). It doesn't appear close to Cherkassy on any of the maps I
have. I think there may even be several small towns by that name, & I was
beginning to believe it was a false lead. By scanning various views of the
map, I discovered that the birth place of my grandfather & his brothers
(Korsun-Shevchenkovsky) was very nearby, as is Gorodische, the town in
which their births were registered. It makes me wonder if they were born in
their mother's village, since women often went home to give birth. I still
have no definite information about her, except a first name.

Now if I could only get the documentation out of the Ukraine!!

Thank you David & Al, & Thank You JewishGen. My donation will be on its way
tomorrow!

Florence Elman
<haflo@cadvision.com>

I just found a really great map site on the internet at
http://www.multimap.com........


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Great Map Site - Eureka! #general

haflo <haflo@...>
 

I wanted to share my excitement with fellow JewishGenners. Thanks, David,
whoever you are!! Although I've learned so much >from my involvement in
JewishGen over the years, this is the first time a clue has actually led me
closer to direct information bearing on my family research. I used the map
site referred to below, & after playing around with different views of
Cherkassy, the city in which my GGrandfather died, I was stunned to find
the town where I'd been told he was "from". I could never pinpoint
Zavadovka before (partly because I was unsure of the spelling &
pronunciation). It doesn't appear close to Cherkassy on any of the maps I
have. I think there may even be several small towns by that name, & I was
beginning to believe it was a false lead. By scanning various views of the
map, I discovered that the birth place of my grandfather & his brothers
(Korsun-Shevchenkovsky) was very nearby, as is Gorodische, the town in
which their births were registered. It makes me wonder if they were born in
their mother's village, since women often went home to give birth. I still
have no definite information about her, except a first name.

Now if I could only get the documentation out of the Ukraine!!

Thank you David & Al, & Thank You JewishGen. My donation will be on its way
tomorrow!

Florence Elman
<haflo@cadvision.com>

I just found a really great map site on the internet at
http://www.multimap.com........


Re: Names Chaje and Chajake #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Chaje would be a woman's name, in English spelling Chaia or similar.
A man would be Chaim.

The -ka ending is a Russian diminutive, so Chajke would be an
affectionate term for a woman named Chaje.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Names Chaje and Chajake #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Chaje would be a woman's name, in English spelling Chaia or similar.
A man would be Chaim.

The -ka ending is a Russian diminutive, so Chajke would be an
affectionate term for a woman named Chaje.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Translation of Words #belarus

JSimpson@...
 

Oops! I forgot to mention, the words in my previous e-mail needed
translation are Polish.

Thanks,

Joe Simpson
Glens Falls, NY
searching Rosenfeld in Brest


Belarus SIG #Belarus Translation of Words #belarus

JSimpson@...
 

Oops! I forgot to mention, the words in my previous e-mail needed
translation are Polish.

Thanks,

Joe Simpson
Glens Falls, NY
searching Rosenfeld in Brest


FRANK, BARNETT, BARKER #general

Jackie Schwartz <jackiealan@...>
 

It''s been years since I've listed these search names so here they are
again:
The FRANK family >from Chicago and Los Angeles:
Abe and Ann BARKER (BARKOWSKY) FRANK,
Benjamin
Lester
Louise

Abraham and Lena SIMMONS (?) BARNETT - also >from Chicago
Maurice
Phillip
Rachel
Carrie
Etta
Jane
Beatrice

If you are researching any of these names I'd be happy to hear >from you at
my *new* e-mail address: jackiealan@mediaone.net - formerly:
jfschwartz@earthlink.net

Jackie Schwartz
Santa Ana, Calif.

MODERATOR NOTE: If you have entered data into the JewishGen Family
Finder, be sure to change your address there by going to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/ and clicking on "Modify."


REICHGOTT, SCHWARTZ, KLEINBERG #general

Jackie Schwartz <jackiealan@...>
 

I'm listing again names I'm researching -

Max Mendel SCHWARTZ >from Nowy Dwor
Son: Abraham SCHWARTZ,d. 1936 - lawyer in NY

REICHGOTT - any!

KLEINBERG: HenriettA KLEINBERG REICHGOTT

Please let me hear >from you if there is a connection.
Thanks,

Jackie Schwartz
Santa Ana, Calif.