Date   

Re: Mutilation to avoid Conscription #belarus

Hal S. Maggied, Ph.D. <drmaggoo@...>
 

Baruch Pinnick wrote 28 Jan 2001:

I wouldn't readily dismiss stories about parents mutilating their
children to avoid conscription in the Czar's army. I've served in
the Israeli army and heard of RARE cases in which young conscripts,
usually disturbed, shot themselves in the foot (or similar) to get
out. (I've never heard of Israeli parents mutilating their children,
however!)
---------
Baruch Pinnick is right on target. Authorities in the different
guberniyae however, apparently applied their own set of rules.

My Dad, the eldest son, >from Vitebsk Guberniya, [now in Byeloruss]
was conscripted in 1897 'fehr der Prizv' for 25 years; he served
'only' seven. When Pop was taken away at 21 years of age, one two
year old brother remained.

Physically, he was a 'shtarker', trim, powerful being with a lot of
drive and heart. Zeyda's father was urging Zeyda to do something but
did nothing to harm his eldest son. Pop's father would not engage in
maiming any of his kids. [Zeyda's oldest brother was taken as a boy
by the Imperial Army never to be heard >from again by anyone.] A
poor man, he learned after the fact that an only son did not have to
serve! But, once the son was conscripted he could be or bought out
[bribed].

Baruch Pinnick further wrote:
The phenomenon probably exists wherever military service is compulsory.
Considering the horror stories I've read about the Czar's army -
conscription for up to 20 or 30 years, antisemitism, you name it - and
comparing it to the rather benign Israeli army, I could well imagine
parents performing this admittedly rather disturbing act for the better
of their children.
---------------
Zeyda MOGID scrimped over those years that Pop was away and bought
Pop out in 1904. The story Pop's youngest brother [another son was
born while Pop was away] told us that Pop arrived after the buy-out
'erev shabbos'. The following Sunday morning [early and dark], Zeyda
took Pop and the two little brothers on his wagon and they traveled
to Vitebsk Shtodt -the closest railhead- and put him on a train to
the coaster port at Libau, Russia. the wagon ride took over 20 hours
one way.

The rest of Pop's departure was played out over shabbos. Not only
did Zeyda gather the kopkas to finance the buy out [Pop sent most of
his rubles home for support] but had purchased the schifcarte to
America and civilian clothes so that there would be no delay in
Pop's departure. The discussion went into the early hours when Zeyda
charged Pop with the responsibility of saving enough to pay for
bringing his brothers & sisters out of the Pale. Pop accomplished
what Zeyda had commanded. This is only the beginning of the MOGID
saga in the Western World.

My Mom came >from Volhynia Guberniya [now in Eukreinje] but under
Tzar Nikkie II. the demands were harsher, apparently. Not only were
there maimers, there were "Khoppers" . These were Jewish men who
grabbed young boys to satisfy conscription quotas set by the
regional authorities for each shtetl. The quotas were edicted with
nothing less than fulfillment; if unfulfilled, the threatened
pogroms became a reality.

Boys were taken and tortured by various means to force conversion on
them. One, was to force pork meat into their mouths; another, was to
spread raw beans of peas on the floor and force them to kneel for
hours -generally, in extreme heat of cold- without feeding or
watering them; still another, was to hang them by their wrists to
exhaustion, cut them down and whip the with the infamous k'nout. I
believe the k'nout was a short whip with knotted thongs.

Jews serving in the Russian military was an abjectly brutal, cruel
experience! The explacation of the enforcers' methods devastates
one's emotions. None the less, the story should never die. Without
any religious mandate, military service is exacting & taxing in any
dictatorship or monarchy. With the rampant, rabid anti-Semitism it
often proved fatal as well as scarring. Make no mistake. Even in the
"democracy" armies, self-mutilation occurred.

Hope this has clarified some of the confusion. Khai Tov, Hal

--
Hal MAGGIED, PhD; AICP; Coconut Creek, FL. Ohio State Alumnus
drmaggoo@ix.netcom.com
--


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Mutilation to avoid Conscription #belarus

Hal S. Maggied, Ph.D. <drmaggoo@...>
 

Baruch Pinnick wrote 28 Jan 2001:

I wouldn't readily dismiss stories about parents mutilating their
children to avoid conscription in the Czar's army. I've served in
the Israeli army and heard of RARE cases in which young conscripts,
usually disturbed, shot themselves in the foot (or similar) to get
out. (I've never heard of Israeli parents mutilating their children,
however!)
---------
Baruch Pinnick is right on target. Authorities in the different
guberniyae however, apparently applied their own set of rules.

My Dad, the eldest son, >from Vitebsk Guberniya, [now in Byeloruss]
was conscripted in 1897 'fehr der Prizv' for 25 years; he served
'only' seven. When Pop was taken away at 21 years of age, one two
year old brother remained.

Physically, he was a 'shtarker', trim, powerful being with a lot of
drive and heart. Zeyda's father was urging Zeyda to do something but
did nothing to harm his eldest son. Pop's father would not engage in
maiming any of his kids. [Zeyda's oldest brother was taken as a boy
by the Imperial Army never to be heard >from again by anyone.] A
poor man, he learned after the fact that an only son did not have to
serve! But, once the son was conscripted he could be or bought out
[bribed].

Baruch Pinnick further wrote:
The phenomenon probably exists wherever military service is compulsory.
Considering the horror stories I've read about the Czar's army -
conscription for up to 20 or 30 years, antisemitism, you name it - and
comparing it to the rather benign Israeli army, I could well imagine
parents performing this admittedly rather disturbing act for the better
of their children.
---------------
Zeyda MOGID scrimped over those years that Pop was away and bought
Pop out in 1904. The story Pop's youngest brother [another son was
born while Pop was away] told us that Pop arrived after the buy-out
'erev shabbos'. The following Sunday morning [early and dark], Zeyda
took Pop and the two little brothers on his wagon and they traveled
to Vitebsk Shtodt -the closest railhead- and put him on a train to
the coaster port at Libau, Russia. the wagon ride took over 20 hours
one way.

The rest of Pop's departure was played out over shabbos. Not only
did Zeyda gather the kopkas to finance the buy out [Pop sent most of
his rubles home for support] but had purchased the schifcarte to
America and civilian clothes so that there would be no delay in
Pop's departure. The discussion went into the early hours when Zeyda
charged Pop with the responsibility of saving enough to pay for
bringing his brothers & sisters out of the Pale. Pop accomplished
what Zeyda had commanded. This is only the beginning of the MOGID
saga in the Western World.

My Mom came >from Volhynia Guberniya [now in Eukreinje] but under
Tzar Nikkie II. the demands were harsher, apparently. Not only were
there maimers, there were "Khoppers" . These were Jewish men who
grabbed young boys to satisfy conscription quotas set by the
regional authorities for each shtetl. The quotas were edicted with
nothing less than fulfillment; if unfulfilled, the threatened
pogroms became a reality.

Boys were taken and tortured by various means to force conversion on
them. One, was to force pork meat into their mouths; another, was to
spread raw beans of peas on the floor and force them to kneel for
hours -generally, in extreme heat of cold- without feeding or
watering them; still another, was to hang them by their wrists to
exhaustion, cut them down and whip the with the infamous k'nout. I
believe the k'nout was a short whip with knotted thongs.

Jews serving in the Russian military was an abjectly brutal, cruel
experience! The explacation of the enforcers' methods devastates
one's emotions. None the less, the story should never die. Without
any religious mandate, military service is exacting & taxing in any
dictatorship or monarchy. With the rampant, rabid anti-Semitism it
often proved fatal as well as scarring. Make no mistake. Even in the
"democracy" armies, self-mutilation occurred.

Hope this has clarified some of the confusion. Khai Tov, Hal

--
Hal MAGGIED, PhD; AICP; Coconut Creek, FL. Ohio State Alumnus
drmaggoo@ix.netcom.com
--


Bounced mail #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

Sorry if you received a lot of bounced aol mail. One of the messages I
passed did not say mime format but obviously was. aol cannot accept mime
format hence all aol members mail gets bounced to lyris.Once again please
see that your messages are sent in Plain Text.
Arlene Beare
Moderator


Latvia SIG #Latvia Bounced mail #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

Sorry if you received a lot of bounced aol mail. One of the messages I
passed did not say mime format but obviously was. aol cannot accept mime
format hence all aol members mail gets bounced to lyris.Once again please
see that your messages are sent in Plain Text.
Arlene Beare
Moderator


SURNAMES and towns you are researching #ukraine

Bobby Furst <bobby1st@...>
 

I am creating a database of the surnames and towns that you are researching. Hopefully, when the geographical dictionary is posted, we can link your names to the towns in the dictionary.

If you want your information included please send to me:

SURNAME Town Gubernia


for each surname / town you are researching.

You can include variations in spellings for the surnames, and more than one town for each surname. I will capture what ever you send to me.

Bobby Furst
bobby1st@sprynet.com


January 2001 Yizkor Book Report #ukraine

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

Yizkor Book Project, January 2001

January 2001 was a spectacular month: we added 9 new books and
updated an amazing 20 books that were already online. Appreciation
for this output is due the html technical volunteers, John Berman,
webmaster, and Lance Ackerfeld, who in addition to his duties as
Yizkor Book htmler and QA coordinator as well as Permissions
Coordinator, has added the new title of HTML Coordinator. This is a
person who can wear as many hats as you can throw his way.

For those of you that like statistics, the Yizkor Book Project now
has 264 separate entries and there are 47 libraries in the database.
There were 115,000 hits on this site in January. The index page for
the yizkor book translations is at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/translations.html

New Books:

-Belchatow, Poland: Belchatow Anniversary Publication of the Mutual
Aid Society of Belchatow and its surrounding areas
-Brisk, Belarus: Brisk Edicion Aniversario (Brisk 30th Anniversary Edition)
-Gorodets (Horodets), Belarus
-Silesia Region
-Gura Humorului, Ukraine: Geschichte der Juden in der Bukowina
-Skalat, Ukraine: Es shtarbt a shtetl; megiles
-Yedintzi, Belarus
-Warsaw, Poland
-Zdunska-Wola, Poland


Updated Books:

-Annopol, Poland
-Belchatow, Poland
-Borislav,Ukraine
-Buchach, Ukraine
-Bukowina (Region), Romania/Ukraine: 4 separate chapters plus the
table of contents were added
----Solca, Storozhinets, Vizhnitsa, Suceava
-Chortkov, Ukraine
-Droghiczhn, Belarus
-Jurbarkas, Lithuania
-Kolbuszowa, Poland
-Kolno, Poland
-Lida, Belarus
-Mikulince, Ukraine
-Opole-Lubelski, Poland
-Oradea, Romania
-Radauti, Romania
-Radzymin, Poland
-Rogatin, Ukraine
-Szczczyn, Belaraus
-Zaglembia, Poland (Region)

We keep adding yizkor book translation fundraising projects--all
worthy projects that need your financial support. See
http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

Bolekhov, Ukraine
Brest, Belarus
Brzeziny, Poland
Buchach, Ukraine
Chelm, Poland
Czyzew, Poland
Dokshitsy, Belarus
Drogichin, Belarus
Gargzdai, Lithuania
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodenka, Ukraine
Gorodok, Ukraine
Ivano-Frankivsk, Ukraine
Kremenets, Ukraine
Krynki, Poland

Lancut, Poland
Maramures Region
Moravia
Przemysl, Poland
Pulawy, Poland
Rozhnyatov, Ukraine
Rzeszow, Poland
Slutsk, Belarus
Sochaczew, Poland
Stawiski, Poland
Telekhany, Belarus
Wolbrom, Poland
Yedintsy, Moldova
Zgierz, Poland

To find out how you can start a project to translate a yizkor book, please see
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/donation/.

A reminder that the necrologies of all online translations are at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/yizkor/. The index will be
periodically updated.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager
jfield@jewishgen.org


Yefim GOTLIBOVICH #ukraine

haflo <haflo@...>
 

My grandfather's youngest brother, Yefim (Chaim Gadiel) GOTLIBOVICH was
born in Cherkassy, Kiev on February 19, 1892, attended the secular
gymnasium, high school, & was a professional military man in the Soviet
system. He died in Moscow in 1941, possibly during the German attack. I was
told he had married, & had 2 daughters - both of whom are probably living
under married names now in the city of Moscow. (My guesstimate is that they
would probably be in their 70's now.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to begin a search for these women, I'd
be very grateful.

Sincerely,
Florence Elman
<haflo@cadvision.com>

ELMAN researching: MACHERET - Zolotonosha, Ukraine; PRESSMAN - Dolginov,
Vilenskaya (Vileyka); SURIS/SURES - Odessa, Ukraine; WEISSBEIN/VAJSBEJN -
Odessa, Ukraine; NERENBERG - Socolec, Podolsk, Ukraine;
ZILBERBERG/SILBERBERG - Nova Ushitsa, Podolia, Ukraine;
GOTLIBOVICH/GOTLIBOWITZ/GOTLIEB - Cherkassy, Korsun, Kharkov, &
H/Gorodishche, Ukraine; KATSOVITCH - Minsk & Vileyka


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine SURNAMES and towns you are researching #ukraine

Bobby Furst <bobby1st@...>
 

I am creating a database of the surnames and towns that you are researching. Hopefully, when the geographical dictionary is posted, we can link your names to the towns in the dictionary.

If you want your information included please send to me:

SURNAME Town Gubernia


for each surname / town you are researching.

You can include variations in spellings for the surnames, and more than one town for each surname. I will capture what ever you send to me.

Bobby Furst
bobby1st@sprynet.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine January 2001 Yizkor Book Report #ukraine

Joyce Field <jfield@...>
 

Yizkor Book Project, January 2001

January 2001 was a spectacular month: we added 9 new books and
updated an amazing 20 books that were already online. Appreciation
for this output is due the html technical volunteers, John Berman,
webmaster, and Lance Ackerfeld, who in addition to his duties as
Yizkor Book htmler and QA coordinator as well as Permissions
Coordinator, has added the new title of HTML Coordinator. This is a
person who can wear as many hats as you can throw his way.

For those of you that like statistics, the Yizkor Book Project now
has 264 separate entries and there are 47 libraries in the database.
There were 115,000 hits on this site in January. The index page for
the yizkor book translations is at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/translations.html

New Books:

-Belchatow, Poland: Belchatow Anniversary Publication of the Mutual
Aid Society of Belchatow and its surrounding areas
-Brisk, Belarus: Brisk Edicion Aniversario (Brisk 30th Anniversary Edition)
-Gorodets (Horodets), Belarus
-Silesia Region
-Gura Humorului, Ukraine: Geschichte der Juden in der Bukowina
-Skalat, Ukraine: Es shtarbt a shtetl; megiles
-Yedintzi, Belarus
-Warsaw, Poland
-Zdunska-Wola, Poland


Updated Books:

-Annopol, Poland
-Belchatow, Poland
-Borislav,Ukraine
-Buchach, Ukraine
-Bukowina (Region), Romania/Ukraine: 4 separate chapters plus the
table of contents were added
----Solca, Storozhinets, Vizhnitsa, Suceava
-Chortkov, Ukraine
-Droghiczhn, Belarus
-Jurbarkas, Lithuania
-Kolbuszowa, Poland
-Kolno, Poland
-Lida, Belarus
-Mikulince, Ukraine
-Opole-Lubelski, Poland
-Oradea, Romania
-Radauti, Romania
-Radzymin, Poland
-Rogatin, Ukraine
-Szczczyn, Belaraus
-Zaglembia, Poland (Region)

We keep adding yizkor book translation fundraising projects--all
worthy projects that need your financial support. See
http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

Bolekhov, Ukraine
Brest, Belarus
Brzeziny, Poland
Buchach, Ukraine
Chelm, Poland
Czyzew, Poland
Dokshitsy, Belarus
Drogichin, Belarus
Gargzdai, Lithuania
Goniadz, Poland
Gorodenka, Ukraine
Gorodok, Ukraine
Ivano-Frankivsk, Ukraine
Kremenets, Ukraine
Krynki, Poland

Lancut, Poland
Maramures Region
Moravia
Przemysl, Poland
Pulawy, Poland
Rozhnyatov, Ukraine
Rzeszow, Poland
Slutsk, Belarus
Sochaczew, Poland
Stawiski, Poland
Telekhany, Belarus
Wolbrom, Poland
Yedintsy, Moldova
Zgierz, Poland

To find out how you can start a project to translate a yizkor book, please see
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/donation/.

A reminder that the necrologies of all online translations are at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/yizkor/. The index will be
periodically updated.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager
jfield@jewishgen.org


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Yefim GOTLIBOVICH #ukraine

haflo <haflo@...>
 

My grandfather's youngest brother, Yefim (Chaim Gadiel) GOTLIBOVICH was
born in Cherkassy, Kiev on February 19, 1892, attended the secular
gymnasium, high school, & was a professional military man in the Soviet
system. He died in Moscow in 1941, possibly during the German attack. I was
told he had married, & had 2 daughters - both of whom are probably living
under married names now in the city of Moscow. (My guesstimate is that they
would probably be in their 70's now.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to begin a search for these women, I'd
be very grateful.

Sincerely,
Florence Elman
<haflo@cadvision.com>

ELMAN researching: MACHERET - Zolotonosha, Ukraine; PRESSMAN - Dolginov,
Vilenskaya (Vileyka); SURIS/SURES - Odessa, Ukraine; WEISSBEIN/VAJSBEJN -
Odessa, Ukraine; NERENBERG - Socolec, Podolsk, Ukraine;
ZILBERBERG/SILBERBERG - Nova Ushitsa, Podolia, Ukraine;
GOTLIBOVICH/GOTLIBOWITZ/GOTLIEB - Cherkassy, Korsun, Kharkov, &
H/Gorodishche, Ukraine; KATSOVITCH - Minsk & Vileyka


Re: Belarus Shtetl Burial Societies in NY #belarus

Joyce Weaver <joyweave@...>
 

--------------------
David M. Fox wrote:

The JGS of NY's database of Burial Societies in the New York
Metropolitan
Area is now on-line at <http://www.jgsny.org/database/searchcity.htm>.
Check out the burial society name and cemetery location for your
ancestral Belarus shtetl or town.
------
Thank you SO much for this. I am convinced that my grandmother is
buried at Mt. Judah, but they say no. Yet here it is-- the same
burial society which buried my grandfather at Washington Cem. has
a plot at Mt. Judah!

Joy Weaver
mailto:joyweave@erols.com
Outline trees for: HALLOCK, HEAD, PALMER, SELDEN at:
http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/w/e/a/Joyce-R-Weaver/
USA (northeast): Burnside, Green, Hallock, Head, Merritt, Morris, Palmer,
Selden, Weaver./ CANADA (ON/QC): Brown, Clark, Grant, Weaver./ ENGLAND
(Lanc.): Hunt, Wall. POLAND (Krasnik, Zaklikow, Lublin): Blumberg, Fogiel,
Rozenel./ BELARUS (Wisoke-Litovsk, Brest, Grodno): Feinberg, Vilner, Greenberg.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Belarus Shtetl Burial Societies in NY #belarus

Joyce Weaver <joyweave@...>
 

--------------------
David M. Fox wrote:

The JGS of NY's database of Burial Societies in the New York
Metropolitan
Area is now on-line at <http://www.jgsny.org/database/searchcity.htm>.
Check out the burial society name and cemetery location for your
ancestral Belarus shtetl or town.
------
Thank you SO much for this. I am convinced that my grandmother is
buried at Mt. Judah, but they say no. Yet here it is-- the same
burial society which buried my grandfather at Washington Cem. has
a plot at Mt. Judah!

Joy Weaver
mailto:joyweave@erols.com
Outline trees for: HALLOCK, HEAD, PALMER, SELDEN at:
http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/w/e/a/Joyce-R-Weaver/
USA (northeast): Burnside, Green, Hallock, Head, Merritt, Morris, Palmer,
Selden, Weaver./ CANADA (ON/QC): Brown, Clark, Grant, Weaver./ ENGLAND
(Lanc.): Hunt, Wall. POLAND (Krasnik, Zaklikow, Lublin): Blumberg, Fogiel,
Rozenel./ BELARUS (Wisoke-Litovsk, Brest, Grodno): Feinberg, Vilner, Greenberg.


Help in Sheepshead Bay #belarus

sman@...
 

I am looking for help with something in Sheepshead Bay, NY

In trying to trace a relative, I need help identifying the street
where they lived in Sheepshead Bay, NY. Of course a phonebook from
the 70's or 80's would help but I don't have access to that.

The address was about five streets away >from the Belt Parkway.
Coming >from the Verazzano Bridge on the Belt, it was the first exit
after the bay and ship docks you see on your right just as you go
through Sheepshead Bay. There were loads of little stores along the
streets leading to and including the one where their apartment building
was; almost all of the signs (store and restaurant) were in Russian.

Anyone know what street it may be?

Please reply privately,
Scott Noar
sman@uscom.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Help in Sheepshead Bay #belarus

sman@...
 

I am looking for help with something in Sheepshead Bay, NY

In trying to trace a relative, I need help identifying the street
where they lived in Sheepshead Bay, NY. Of course a phonebook from
the 70's or 80's would help but I don't have access to that.

The address was about five streets away >from the Belt Parkway.
Coming >from the Verazzano Bridge on the Belt, it was the first exit
after the bay and ship docks you see on your right just as you go
through Sheepshead Bay. There were loads of little stores along the
streets leading to and including the one where their apartment building
was; almost all of the signs (store and restaurant) were in Russian.

Anyone know what street it may be?

Please reply privately,
Scott Noar
sman@uscom.com


Death Certificate accuracy #belarus

Jennifer Meltzer <jmeltzer@...>
 

Just this weekend I received a copy of the death certificate of my
maternal great grandmother BESSIE (BOSHA) MELTZER. That was part of
what struck me - we had always thought the name was some variation
of MEZZE based on my grandfather's 1952 certificate. Hers was issued
in May 1910 - so certainly those supplying the info are long gone.
The father's first name appears to be "Flaae".
Anyone have any idea of what that might actually be?

Ditto my gggmother's name - SARAH WEINSTEIN - most likely SURA V?
since Weinstein wasn't a Russian name.

My Bosha was born in 1846 and came to New York City in approximately
1889. She died in May 1910. It is possible that her original port
of entry was Canada. She was originally married to FEITEL MOSHE
PEARLMAN (possibly before she immigrated), and then to JACOB RIFKIN.
My grandfather was PEARLMAN. Her last residence was W. 117th St.
in Manhattan.

Any info is greatly appreciated!

Jennifer Meltzer

Researching: FELDMAN, WEISMAN, KOPILOFF - Latvia
PEARLMAN, RIFKIN - Belarus to the Bronx
BECK - Vilna, Gt. Britian, Phillipines


Belarus SIG #Belarus Death Certificate accuracy #belarus

Jennifer Meltzer <jmeltzer@...>
 

Just this weekend I received a copy of the death certificate of my
maternal great grandmother BESSIE (BOSHA) MELTZER. That was part of
what struck me - we had always thought the name was some variation
of MEZZE based on my grandfather's 1952 certificate. Hers was issued
in May 1910 - so certainly those supplying the info are long gone.
The father's first name appears to be "Flaae".
Anyone have any idea of what that might actually be?

Ditto my gggmother's name - SARAH WEINSTEIN - most likely SURA V?
since Weinstein wasn't a Russian name.

My Bosha was born in 1846 and came to New York City in approximately
1889. She died in May 1910. It is possible that her original port
of entry was Canada. She was originally married to FEITEL MOSHE
PEARLMAN (possibly before she immigrated), and then to JACOB RIFKIN.
My grandfather was PEARLMAN. Her last residence was W. 117th St.
in Manhattan.

Any info is greatly appreciated!

Jennifer Meltzer

Researching: FELDMAN, WEISMAN, KOPILOFF - Latvia
PEARLMAN, RIFKIN - Belarus to the Bronx
BECK - Vilna, Gt. Britian, Phillipines


Re: Oknis - Ugionis #latvia

Bralshjon@...
 

There are no places in Latvia by the names of "Oknis" or "Ugionis."
Pasvytinis (and this, I know, isn' t the correct spelling , is in Lithuania.

Moderator Note:Please sign messages


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Oknis - Ugionis #latvia

Bralshjon@...
 

There are no places in Latvia by the names of "Oknis" or "Ugionis."
Pasvytinis (and this, I know, isn' t the correct spelling , is in Lithuania.

Moderator Note:Please sign messages


Name Changes/Maternal Surname/summary #belarus

Carlos Glikson
 

There has been an ongoing posting of messages regarding name changes.
Recently we had a thread in JewishGen concerning reasons behind surname
changes and the use of the maternal surname. This is the summary I
submitted after so many interesting inputs posted in this relation,
which may add to the reasons already shared in the SIG:

Thank you to all who helped me gain insight on the many reasons behind
surname changes in immigrants and use of maternal name. I wish to thank
all who took their time to answer. It was my first posting in JewishGen
and I felt the added strength of individual and collective knowledge
and experiences.

Here is a summary of many varied facts and theories mentioned by Genners
for different dates, areas, and circumstances - different >from the
unfairly blamed clerk in Ellis Island!

They could help to look into other cases and pinpoint the reason for the
change in names:

+ Different policies in terms of recording Jewish marriages and
legislating use of surnames among Jews.

+ Jewish marriages not being recognized, and children being given
documents with their mothers maiden name

+ Religious Marriage considered sufficient. Never bothering to
register a civil marriage with the authorities, with the option
for children of taking either surname

+ Having religious marriages, in general not registering until
after the first child was born, and scoffing at the notations
of illegitimacy in the eyes of the Polish government as of no
consequence at all.

+ Not being able to afford the fee for a civil marriage - children
born of the religious marriage had to take the surname of the mother

+ Only one marriage permit issued per Jew family descendance under
Austro-Hungarian law, and only if a significant fee was paid. So
marriage of more than one children would not be recorded by the
civil authorities and children of such couples would be listed
in the Austro-Hungarian metrical records as illegitimate.

+ Times when governments in Poland and in Hungary did not allow Jews
to marry more than once (even if his spouse was deceased). In that
case, they were married only by Jewish ceremony and the children
of this second (etc.) marriage bore the family name of the mother.

+ Civil marriages being conducted in front of a cross. Jews who
refused to marry in front of a cross were technically illegitimate

+ Marriages performed elsewhere and not formally registered in cities
where children were born

+ Many people in the United States, Irish in particular, had a
particular dislike for Russians, or what they perceived as Russian
sounding names... Consequently, many Russian or East-European Jews
Germanized their names.

+ Thinking that having a close maternal relative with the same surname
in the States would make it easier to be admitted if using the
maternal surname

+ Desire to avoid the authorities for some reason, probably connected
with military service - either to avoid conscription or to evade
punishment after deserting

+ In Russia outside the Kingdom of Poland, Jewish men except the first
born were draftable and sometimes not permitted to marry - so baby
boys were never registered or sometimes registered as the child of
another couple with no boys.

+ Inherited surnames were still relatively new and not especially
desired by Jews since they were forced on them by the government
in an effort to keep track of who was who (and draftable, etc.)

+ A Jew emmigrating to the US may give no second thought to getting
rid of a name forced on him by the Czar.

+ Inconsistent use amongst European Jews of what we consider to be
"surnames" (family names uniformly reflecting the paternal line)
until the 19th century as the earliest.

+ Marriages governed by religious law until fairly recently (typically
the 19th century) with individual names recorded in official documents
being a totally different question.

+ In 20th century not recognition of the state or synagogue as a power
proper for marriage authorization, not for reasons related to religion,
but for political ones

+ Need to be sponsored by a family member in order to be accepted as an
immigrant, and pretending to be related to the sponsor using papers
in the new name.

+ Jews who needed a surname often used the wife's name if they were (as
often occured) living with the wife's family.

+ Men marrying into a well known Rabbinical family taking the
father-in-law's family name

+ Men going into their father-in-law's profession, and the family's name
changing according to that profession

+ Anglicization, easier spelling or pronounciation, and even choosing a
name more in their liking, and ease in the States to "call yourself
anything you wanted"

+ Travelling under the mother's maiden name and resuming the father's
name on arrival

+ Travels under the mother's maiden name being thus noted by the
authorities on their certificate of arrival or naturalization papers.


Thank you very much for all these comments - hope they help and did
not skip any!

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@iname.com

Searching for:
GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN (Suwalki, Marijampole, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin)
ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ (Kremenchug, Vilno)
POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY (Suwalki, Seirijai)
HOLLANDERSKY, HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER (Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza)
TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL (Kremenchug, Kharkov)
FELCHINSKY (Kremenchug, Vilno), KARP (Grodno), GOLUMBIEWSKY, GOLOMB (?),
KRASNAPOLSKY (?)


Belarus SIG #Belarus Name Changes/Maternal Surname/summary #belarus

Carlos Glikson
 

There has been an ongoing posting of messages regarding name changes.
Recently we had a thread in JewishGen concerning reasons behind surname
changes and the use of the maternal surname. This is the summary I
submitted after so many interesting inputs posted in this relation,
which may add to the reasons already shared in the SIG:

Thank you to all who helped me gain insight on the many reasons behind
surname changes in immigrants and use of maternal name. I wish to thank
all who took their time to answer. It was my first posting in JewishGen
and I felt the added strength of individual and collective knowledge
and experiences.

Here is a summary of many varied facts and theories mentioned by Genners
for different dates, areas, and circumstances - different >from the
unfairly blamed clerk in Ellis Island!

They could help to look into other cases and pinpoint the reason for the
change in names:

+ Different policies in terms of recording Jewish marriages and
legislating use of surnames among Jews.

+ Jewish marriages not being recognized, and children being given
documents with their mothers maiden name

+ Religious Marriage considered sufficient. Never bothering to
register a civil marriage with the authorities, with the option
for children of taking either surname

+ Having religious marriages, in general not registering until
after the first child was born, and scoffing at the notations
of illegitimacy in the eyes of the Polish government as of no
consequence at all.

+ Not being able to afford the fee for a civil marriage - children
born of the religious marriage had to take the surname of the mother

+ Only one marriage permit issued per Jew family descendance under
Austro-Hungarian law, and only if a significant fee was paid. So
marriage of more than one children would not be recorded by the
civil authorities and children of such couples would be listed
in the Austro-Hungarian metrical records as illegitimate.

+ Times when governments in Poland and in Hungary did not allow Jews
to marry more than once (even if his spouse was deceased). In that
case, they were married only by Jewish ceremony and the children
of this second (etc.) marriage bore the family name of the mother.

+ Civil marriages being conducted in front of a cross. Jews who
refused to marry in front of a cross were technically illegitimate

+ Marriages performed elsewhere and not formally registered in cities
where children were born

+ Many people in the United States, Irish in particular, had a
particular dislike for Russians, or what they perceived as Russian
sounding names... Consequently, many Russian or East-European Jews
Germanized their names.

+ Thinking that having a close maternal relative with the same surname
in the States would make it easier to be admitted if using the
maternal surname

+ Desire to avoid the authorities for some reason, probably connected
with military service - either to avoid conscription or to evade
punishment after deserting

+ In Russia outside the Kingdom of Poland, Jewish men except the first
born were draftable and sometimes not permitted to marry - so baby
boys were never registered or sometimes registered as the child of
another couple with no boys.

+ Inherited surnames were still relatively new and not especially
desired by Jews since they were forced on them by the government
in an effort to keep track of who was who (and draftable, etc.)

+ A Jew emmigrating to the US may give no second thought to getting
rid of a name forced on him by the Czar.

+ Inconsistent use amongst European Jews of what we consider to be
"surnames" (family names uniformly reflecting the paternal line)
until the 19th century as the earliest.

+ Marriages governed by religious law until fairly recently (typically
the 19th century) with individual names recorded in official documents
being a totally different question.

+ In 20th century not recognition of the state or synagogue as a power
proper for marriage authorization, not for reasons related to religion,
but for political ones

+ Need to be sponsored by a family member in order to be accepted as an
immigrant, and pretending to be related to the sponsor using papers
in the new name.

+ Jews who needed a surname often used the wife's name if they were (as
often occured) living with the wife's family.

+ Men marrying into a well known Rabbinical family taking the
father-in-law's family name

+ Men going into their father-in-law's profession, and the family's name
changing according to that profession

+ Anglicization, easier spelling or pronounciation, and even choosing a
name more in their liking, and ease in the States to "call yourself
anything you wanted"

+ Travelling under the mother's maiden name and resuming the father's
name on arrival

+ Travels under the mother's maiden name being thus noted by the
authorities on their certificate of arrival or naturalization papers.


Thank you very much for all these comments - hope they help and did
not skip any!

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@iname.com

Searching for:
GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN (Suwalki, Marijampole, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin)
ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ (Kremenchug, Vilno)
POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY (Suwalki, Seirijai)
HOLLANDERSKY, HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER (Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza)
TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL (Kremenchug, Kharkov)
FELCHINSKY (Kremenchug, Vilno), KARP (Grodno), GOLUMBIEWSKY, GOLOMB (?),
KRASNAPOLSKY (?)