Date   

NY burial society #general

Suzecrazy@...
 

I just solved the mystery of the words "Maimonides Lodge 80FSI" on my
gggrandfather's headstone. He's buried at Nt. Neboh cemetery, but this lodge
is in fact, a burial society. I looked it up, and it says "Machpelah
Cemetery- map#48." Do burial societies often use different cemeteries?
Does anyone know if they keep any records?
Thanks again,
Susan Stock
Agoura Hills, Ca


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NY burial society #general

Suzecrazy@...
 

I just solved the mystery of the words "Maimonides Lodge 80FSI" on my
gggrandfather's headstone. He's buried at Nt. Neboh cemetery, but this lodge
is in fact, a burial society. I looked it up, and it says "Machpelah
Cemetery- map#48." Do burial societies often use different cemeteries?
Does anyone know if they keep any records?
Thanks again,
Susan Stock
Agoura Hills, Ca


Shabtai and Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi KRISTOL from Akmene, Lithuania and #general

Bernie Hirsch <bernie06@...>
 

Hello,

(1) Today a researcher has very kindly found for my family a gravestone in
Israel for a KRISTOL ancestor (Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi KRISTOL son of Shabtai):

1. P"N hamuflag [that's a rabbinic superlative] then three letters
that felt like aleph-gimel-bet
2. Mem-vav-heh [morenu harav] [Our teacher, the rabbi] R' Yehoshua Zvi
3. SGL ben harav [the rabbi] Shabtai [shin-bet-tav-yod] zt"l
4. >from Akmin [aleph-kof-mem-yod-nun -- e.g., Akmene, Lithuania]
5. died the tenth day
6. of the month of Heshvan 5654
7. TNZB"H

and this has provided the town name in Lithuania -- AKMENE [see line 4
above].

I was confused about the SGL (Segal), however, on the gravestone. The
surname is KRISTOL, not SEGAL. Is Segal perhaps a title?

Also it was confusing because there is no "HaLevy" designation on the
gravestone, although back in Ireland all of Yehoshua's sons had
gravestones with "HaLevy" designation. To complicate matters more,
the Chevra Kadisha register list for this gravestone had a "HaKohen"
designation, possibly a mistake. I have been told by another
researcher that SEGAL is an acronym for "HaLevy" designation. Perhaps
this might be a clue.


(2) I then did a search on the Jewishgen All Lithuania database for
KRISTOL and found the following potential matches:

KRISTOL Shabsel Head of Household
KRISTOL Ovsey Son Shabsel
KRISTOL Meyer Grandchild Ovsey
KRISTOL Rochel Daughter-in-law Girsh
KRISTOL Riske Grandchild Ovsey
KRISTOL Naftali Head of Household Govsey


(3) I read >from prior Jewishgen discussion of names that Shabsel is a
nickname or diminutive of Shabtai. I also know >from prior research in
Poland that Owsiej is a Yiddish form of Yehoshua. I am assuming that
Ovsey is a Russian form of Yehoshua. Is Govsey equivalent to Ovsey
above?

So, the first and second records in (2) above seem like a very good
potential match for the KRISTOL ancestors found in the gravestone
today in Israel. The problem is, however, that the names for the wife
of Yehoshua in (1) and (2) above are different -- Rochel in (2) and
Ettel (Ethel) in (1), as shown below:

1. P"N [here lies]
2. The woman Etil [ayin-tet-yod-lamed] bat reb
3. Yosef Leib >from [vav-vav-ayin-kof-samech-nun-ayin -- e.g.,
Vieksnaiai, Lithuania]
4. died 25 Heshvan 5670
5. TNZB"H


(4) >from the data we already have gathered on the family (see partial
descendancy below), Yehoshua also has a child Naphtali, who could be
the Naftali in the last record in (2) above. Also there are sons
Micah and Samuel Meyer who could be the Meyer, in the 3rd record in
(2) above. As shown below, there is no child of Yehoshua named Riske.

1 Shabbtai Segall (HaLevy) Kristol
2 Joshua (Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi) Cristol b. _____ Akmene, Lithuania d.
30 Oct 1893 Israel
m. Ethel UNKNOWN d. 9 Nov 1909 Palestine, Israel
[daughter of Yosef Lieb]
3 Michael (Micah) Cristol
m. Esther Clein
3 David Cristol b. _____ d. 8 Mar 1925 Dublin, Ireland
m. Raise Medalia m. Cork, Ireland
3 Samuel Meyer Cristol b. _____ d. 30 Nov 1915 Dublin, Ireland
3 Naphtali Cristol b. _____ d. 9 Jul 1910 Dublin, Ireland
3 Aaron Cristol
3 Miriam Cristol

If I had birthdates or ages for Yehoshua or Naphtali, I could probably
know with certainty that these KRISTOLS >from the All Lithuania
database are mine. But I do not.

What are your thoughts? Is there enough evidence here? Does anyone
have any more information to share on these, or any other thoughts?

--
Thanks and Kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch Dallas, Texas
http://here.at/berniehirsch/famtree


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Shabtai and Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi KRISTOL from Akmene, Lithuania and #general

Bernie Hirsch <bernie06@...>
 

Hello,

(1) Today a researcher has very kindly found for my family a gravestone in
Israel for a KRISTOL ancestor (Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi KRISTOL son of Shabtai):

1. P"N hamuflag [that's a rabbinic superlative] then three letters
that felt like aleph-gimel-bet
2. Mem-vav-heh [morenu harav] [Our teacher, the rabbi] R' Yehoshua Zvi
3. SGL ben harav [the rabbi] Shabtai [shin-bet-tav-yod] zt"l
4. >from Akmin [aleph-kof-mem-yod-nun -- e.g., Akmene, Lithuania]
5. died the tenth day
6. of the month of Heshvan 5654
7. TNZB"H

and this has provided the town name in Lithuania -- AKMENE [see line 4
above].

I was confused about the SGL (Segal), however, on the gravestone. The
surname is KRISTOL, not SEGAL. Is Segal perhaps a title?

Also it was confusing because there is no "HaLevy" designation on the
gravestone, although back in Ireland all of Yehoshua's sons had
gravestones with "HaLevy" designation. To complicate matters more,
the Chevra Kadisha register list for this gravestone had a "HaKohen"
designation, possibly a mistake. I have been told by another
researcher that SEGAL is an acronym for "HaLevy" designation. Perhaps
this might be a clue.


(2) I then did a search on the Jewishgen All Lithuania database for
KRISTOL and found the following potential matches:

KRISTOL Shabsel Head of Household
KRISTOL Ovsey Son Shabsel
KRISTOL Meyer Grandchild Ovsey
KRISTOL Rochel Daughter-in-law Girsh
KRISTOL Riske Grandchild Ovsey
KRISTOL Naftali Head of Household Govsey


(3) I read >from prior Jewishgen discussion of names that Shabsel is a
nickname or diminutive of Shabtai. I also know >from prior research in
Poland that Owsiej is a Yiddish form of Yehoshua. I am assuming that
Ovsey is a Russian form of Yehoshua. Is Govsey equivalent to Ovsey
above?

So, the first and second records in (2) above seem like a very good
potential match for the KRISTOL ancestors found in the gravestone
today in Israel. The problem is, however, that the names for the wife
of Yehoshua in (1) and (2) above are different -- Rochel in (2) and
Ettel (Ethel) in (1), as shown below:

1. P"N [here lies]
2. The woman Etil [ayin-tet-yod-lamed] bat reb
3. Yosef Leib >from [vav-vav-ayin-kof-samech-nun-ayin -- e.g.,
Vieksnaiai, Lithuania]
4. died 25 Heshvan 5670
5. TNZB"H


(4) >from the data we already have gathered on the family (see partial
descendancy below), Yehoshua also has a child Naphtali, who could be
the Naftali in the last record in (2) above. Also there are sons
Micah and Samuel Meyer who could be the Meyer, in the 3rd record in
(2) above. As shown below, there is no child of Yehoshua named Riske.

1 Shabbtai Segall (HaLevy) Kristol
2 Joshua (Reb. Yehoshua Tzvi) Cristol b. _____ Akmene, Lithuania d.
30 Oct 1893 Israel
m. Ethel UNKNOWN d. 9 Nov 1909 Palestine, Israel
[daughter of Yosef Lieb]
3 Michael (Micah) Cristol
m. Esther Clein
3 David Cristol b. _____ d. 8 Mar 1925 Dublin, Ireland
m. Raise Medalia m. Cork, Ireland
3 Samuel Meyer Cristol b. _____ d. 30 Nov 1915 Dublin, Ireland
3 Naphtali Cristol b. _____ d. 9 Jul 1910 Dublin, Ireland
3 Aaron Cristol
3 Miriam Cristol

If I had birthdates or ages for Yehoshua or Naphtali, I could probably
know with certainty that these KRISTOLS >from the All Lithuania
database are mine. But I do not.

What are your thoughts? Is there enough evidence here? Does anyone
have any more information to share on these, or any other thoughts?

--
Thanks and Kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch Dallas, Texas
http://here.at/berniehirsch/famtree


Gravestone Dicephering Techniques #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Since there has been some postings on the subject, I thought I would add the
following personal experience.
In the cemetery in the city of Medzibush there was numerous HESCHEL
relatives whose tombstones still stood but whose engravings were rubbed out.
Rabbi Yisroel Meir Gabbai, who is a heroic pioneer in eastern-European
cemetery restoration, brought over trained workers >from Israel who were
fluent in the Hebrew names and terms found on these stones. They then slowly
and carefully filled the crevices and outlines with black ink - and lo and
behold the inscription was visible once more!
Though in some instances this was no longer possible - as the engraving was
totally rubbed out - in most cases there was enough of the original
engraving left to fill with ink.

I urge all Genners who are planning to visit the graves of their ancestors
in Europe, should consider restoring the graves whenever possible, not only
is this an honor for our forefathers, it can yield great genealogical
findings, and helps prevent further desecrations.

Though my organization itself is involved in several restoration projects at
the current time and unfortunately cannot take on any others, I would be
glad to connect anyone who contacts me privately with Rabbi Gabbai or some
of the other activists that have done so much in this area.

Avrumy Heschel
Brooklyn, NY


MODERATOR NOTE: Many posts to the JewishGen Discussion Group have warned
against well-meaning efforts to enhance gravestone inscriptions that end up
damaging them. While professional restoration efforts such as the ones
Avrumy Heschel describes provide a great service, the inexperienced among us
may wish to become better informed in order to avoid inadvertent damage to
stones resulting >from misguided efforts at enhancement. The Discussion
Group Archives would be a good place to start.


Re: Richmond Temple #general

Claire Petersky
 

Anybody have an e-mail address or telephone
number for a Beth Ahaba Temple in Richmond
Virginia?
What you do is go to a standard search engine. I used Yahoo's Yellow Pages.
I typed in "Synagogue" for the catagory and for the location "Richmond
Virginia". I got:

Beth Ahabah Congregation 1111 W Franklin St Richmond, VA (804) 358-6757

You should probably learn how to do this sort of thing yourself, eh?

--
Claire Petersky
cpetersky@yahoo.com


Re: California Birth records #general

Linda Altman <southernexotics@...>
 

Most online indexes do not post information on the living. There are
privacy issues with that.
Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
CYBULA/CYBULKA, MODRYKAMEN/MODRYKAMIEN, (Zambrow, Poland).
SZABAS/SHABBAS, CHILLER, (Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland).
WISHNEVETSKY or any close spelling, (Poland). LIEBERMAN, (Romania,
Austria).
KRIEDBERG/KRIESBERG/KRAYSBERG/KRAYBERG,(Russia, Ukraine, anywhere).
WEINSTEIN, (Polonnoye and Odessa, Russia or Ukraine). ALTMAN, (anywhere).
mailto:southernexotics@mindspring.com

----- Original Message -----

For what it's worth, I checked the RootsWeb birth index for ME! I was
born in Los Angeles, I know the date, my mother's maiden name, etc., have
my birth certificate and I am not listed. So maybe you shouldn't
absolutely rely on the index for proof of one's existence :-)

Jackie Schwartz
Santa Ana, Calif.


Re: When, and where did the Holocaust start? #general

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Several concentration camps were established in 1933: besides Dachau,
Sachsenhausen, Sachsenburg, and Esterwegen (reference: Martin
Gilbert, The Atlas of Holocaust). But none was originally a Jewish
extermination camp. They were intended to intern the "enemies" and
critics of the 3rd Reich, including homosexuals, political enemies,
gipsies, socialists, mentally ills and, of course, Jews.

At 00:00 -0600 23.03.01, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
>| Subject: Re: When, and where did the Holocaust start?
>| From: "Robert Fraser" <rgfraser@iinet.net.au>
>| Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:33:15 +0800
>| X-Message-Number: 31
>|
>| I would trace the Shoah to 22 March 1933, when Dachau Concentration
>| Camp was opened.
>|
>| Robert W Fraser

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Washington D.C. Research #general

Robert Spoont <rspoont@...>
 

I will be in Washington D.C. for one day in April. Would anyone know
what research resources are available only in Washington D.C.? ( One's that
I can't get on-line or by CD, local library, etc.).

Thanks,

Bob Spoont
Boca Raton, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Gravestone Dicephering Techniques #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

Since there has been some postings on the subject, I thought I would add the
following personal experience.
In the cemetery in the city of Medzibush there was numerous HESCHEL
relatives whose tombstones still stood but whose engravings were rubbed out.
Rabbi Yisroel Meir Gabbai, who is a heroic pioneer in eastern-European
cemetery restoration, brought over trained workers >from Israel who were
fluent in the Hebrew names and terms found on these stones. They then slowly
and carefully filled the crevices and outlines with black ink - and lo and
behold the inscription was visible once more!
Though in some instances this was no longer possible - as the engraving was
totally rubbed out - in most cases there was enough of the original
engraving left to fill with ink.

I urge all Genners who are planning to visit the graves of their ancestors
in Europe, should consider restoring the graves whenever possible, not only
is this an honor for our forefathers, it can yield great genealogical
findings, and helps prevent further desecrations.

Though my organization itself is involved in several restoration projects at
the current time and unfortunately cannot take on any others, I would be
glad to connect anyone who contacts me privately with Rabbi Gabbai or some
of the other activists that have done so much in this area.

Avrumy Heschel
Brooklyn, NY


MODERATOR NOTE: Many posts to the JewishGen Discussion Group have warned
against well-meaning efforts to enhance gravestone inscriptions that end up
damaging them. While professional restoration efforts such as the ones
Avrumy Heschel describes provide a great service, the inexperienced among us
may wish to become better informed in order to avoid inadvertent damage to
stones resulting >from misguided efforts at enhancement. The Discussion
Group Archives would be a good place to start.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Richmond Temple #general

Claire Petersky
 

Anybody have an e-mail address or telephone
number for a Beth Ahaba Temple in Richmond
Virginia?
What you do is go to a standard search engine. I used Yahoo's Yellow Pages.
I typed in "Synagogue" for the catagory and for the location "Richmond
Virginia". I got:

Beth Ahabah Congregation 1111 W Franklin St Richmond, VA (804) 358-6757

You should probably learn how to do this sort of thing yourself, eh?

--
Claire Petersky
cpetersky@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: California Birth records #general

Linda Altman <southernexotics@...>
 

Most online indexes do not post information on the living. There are
privacy issues with that.
Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
CYBULA/CYBULKA, MODRYKAMEN/MODRYKAMIEN, (Zambrow, Poland).
SZABAS/SHABBAS, CHILLER, (Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland).
WISHNEVETSKY or any close spelling, (Poland). LIEBERMAN, (Romania,
Austria).
KRIEDBERG/KRIESBERG/KRAYSBERG/KRAYBERG,(Russia, Ukraine, anywhere).
WEINSTEIN, (Polonnoye and Odessa, Russia or Ukraine). ALTMAN, (anywhere).
mailto:southernexotics@mindspring.com

----- Original Message -----

For what it's worth, I checked the RootsWeb birth index for ME! I was
born in Los Angeles, I know the date, my mother's maiden name, etc., have
my birth certificate and I am not listed. So maybe you shouldn't
absolutely rely on the index for proof of one's existence :-)

Jackie Schwartz
Santa Ana, Calif.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: When, and where did the Holocaust start? #general

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Several concentration camps were established in 1933: besides Dachau,
Sachsenhausen, Sachsenburg, and Esterwegen (reference: Martin
Gilbert, The Atlas of Holocaust). But none was originally a Jewish
extermination camp. They were intended to intern the "enemies" and
critics of the 3rd Reich, including homosexuals, political enemies,
gipsies, socialists, mentally ills and, of course, Jews.

At 00:00 -0600 23.03.01, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
>| Subject: Re: When, and where did the Holocaust start?
>| From: "Robert Fraser" <rgfraser@iinet.net.au>
>| Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:33:15 +0800
>| X-Message-Number: 31
>|
>| I would trace the Shoah to 22 March 1933, when Dachau Concentration
>| Camp was opened.
>|
>| Robert W Fraser

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Washington D.C. Research #general

Robert Spoont <rspoont@...>
 

I will be in Washington D.C. for one day in April. Would anyone know
what research resources are available only in Washington D.C.? ( One's that
I can't get on-line or by CD, local library, etc.).

Thanks,

Bob Spoont
Boca Raton, FL


LISANSKY & ZEIDELMAN Marriage #general

ctf-genealogy@...
 

I finally received my great-grandfather's SS-5 Form and he listed his
parents as Joseph ZEIDELMAN and Ada LISANSKY. Now I know where my father's
middle name came from. Also, Elie ZEIDELMAN, the son of Joseph and Ada,
named his first child Ada, so I assume his mother had died by then (1898)
and probably died in "Russia". [Unfortunately, Elie didn't provide any city
or other information on his SS-5.]

LISANSKY is a new surname to my tree, so I have not paid any attention to
mailing list e-mails that may have mentioned it. If you have any connection
to LISANSKY, please contact me.

V. Friedman
Acworth, GA
ctf-genealogy@mindspring.com


MODERATOR NOTE: The JewishGen Family Finder at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~jgff~C> lists six
researchers of the surname LISANSKY.


SYTNER-SANDEMAN-Lask? #general

Miriam Margolyes <75342.3217@...>
 

Dear Genners,

I'm researching two families who may
have been cousins-SYTNER & SANDEMAN.
In 1815, the UK Census has a SYTNER as
coming >from Prussia.

Other birth sources later give Lask in the
province of Lodz as a birthplace. Could
Lask ever have been in Prussia?

Miriam Margolyes
Santa Monica

email: 75342.3217@compuserve.com

searching: in South Africa-SANDEMAN, SYTNER,
MORRIS: in London 19th C. POSNER, MICHAELS
in Brooklyn 20th C: GOLDSMITH, ASHER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LISANSKY & ZEIDELMAN Marriage #general

ctf-genealogy@...
 

I finally received my great-grandfather's SS-5 Form and he listed his
parents as Joseph ZEIDELMAN and Ada LISANSKY. Now I know where my father's
middle name came from. Also, Elie ZEIDELMAN, the son of Joseph and Ada,
named his first child Ada, so I assume his mother had died by then (1898)
and probably died in "Russia". [Unfortunately, Elie didn't provide any city
or other information on his SS-5.]

LISANSKY is a new surname to my tree, so I have not paid any attention to
mailing list e-mails that may have mentioned it. If you have any connection
to LISANSKY, please contact me.

V. Friedman
Acworth, GA
ctf-genealogy@mindspring.com


MODERATOR NOTE: The JewishGen Family Finder at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~jgff~C> lists six
researchers of the surname LISANSKY.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SYTNER-SANDEMAN-Lask? #general

Miriam Margolyes <75342.3217@...>
 

Dear Genners,

I'm researching two families who may
have been cousins-SYTNER & SANDEMAN.
In 1815, the UK Census has a SYTNER as
coming >from Prussia.

Other birth sources later give Lask in the
province of Lodz as a birthplace. Could
Lask ever have been in Prussia?

Miriam Margolyes
Santa Monica

email: 75342.3217@compuserve.com

searching: in South Africa-SANDEMAN, SYTNER,
MORRIS: in London 19th C. POSNER, MICHAELS
in Brooklyn 20th C: GOLDSMITH, ASHER


KASELSON (Vilkomir) & SUSTER (Kamajai) #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

I happened upon two unusual records for the following individuals who were
killed by the peasants of the village of Givakory, Lithuania, on August 7,
1880 and buried in Kupiskis, Lithuania, on August 11, 1880:

KASELSON, Shmuel-Girsh, age 45, born 1835, a citizen of Vilkomir. (the name
could be spelled Kesselson)

SUSTER, Mendel ben Itsko, age 29, born 1851, a citizen of Kamajai, a
shoemaker. (the name could be spelled Shuster)

I have no further information on these two records.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Fleishman from Proskurov #general

Ron Goldman
 

<I am looking for Fleishman's >from Proskurow >

There was a Jos. Fleishman who was a member of
the Proskurover Zion Benevolent Assoc. in April, 1959.

At that time he lived at *** E. 84th St., N.Y.C.

Ron Goldman
preshtek@gate.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Street address deleted for privacy.