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Re: How can DNA testing help in this case? #dna

Aimee Jones <just_a_girl1999@...>
 

Hello,
My great-grandmother is alive and living in Liverpool, England, I am only
18. She was born on July 18th 1918 in Stettin, Germany which is now
Szczecin, Poland. She was 17 when she had my grandmother, who was 25 when
she had my mother, who was 23 when she had me, so all the generations had
children young! Her mother was born Louise Calis (unsure of spelling, this
is what my grandmother's aunt thinks) and was married twice, once to a man
named Otto Sprenger and once to Fritz Kohn. I can't trace it any further
back than this, and I can't even find documentary evidence of this, only
what my grandmother and her aunt can remember. My great-grandmother claims
to remember nothing of her life before she entered England, so I can't ask
her anything. The only information I know of the maternal line is that
ultimately it came >from Persia and then Spain/Italy and finally Germany,
however, this is just hearsay and sounds a bit clichéd.
Thanks very much,
Ms. A. Jones,
Scotland
Re: Litvinoff/Michelsen - Odessa #ukraine

Paul Wolf <pwolf1@...>
 

At 11:11 PM 3/3/2002 +0000, Anne Moore wrote:
My grandparents, Maksim and Rosa Litvinoff (nee Michelsen) arrived in
London >from Odessa in 1913.
[snip]
My father believed that some of his family had emigrated >from Odessa to
South America. Perhaps Maksim followed them there.
You might try a phone search in Argentina.
http://www.teldir.com/real/frame.asp?page=http://www.paginas-doradas.com.ar/PDPortal/guia_telefonica/guia_telefonica.asp


Enter "litvinoff" in the box for "appelido", select "Ciudad de Buenos
Aires" in the box for "Provincia" and hit the buttom marked "buscar".

There are 12 Litvinoff listing shown.

Paul Wolf in San Diego
DNA Research #DNA re: How can DNA testing help in this case? #dna

Aimee Jones <just_a_girl1999@...>
 

Hello,
My great-grandmother is alive and living in Liverpool, England, I am only
18. She was born on July 18th 1918 in Stettin, Germany which is now
Szczecin, Poland. She was 17 when she had my grandmother, who was 25 when
she had my mother, who was 23 when she had me, so all the generations had
children young! Her mother was born Louise Calis (unsure of spelling, this
is what my grandmother's aunt thinks) and was married twice, once to a man
named Otto Sprenger and once to Fritz Kohn. I can't trace it any further
back than this, and I can't even find documentary evidence of this, only
what my grandmother and her aunt can remember. My great-grandmother claims
to remember nothing of her life before she entered England, so I can't ask
her anything. The only information I know of the maternal line is that
ultimately it came >from Persia and then Spain/Italy and finally Germany,
however, this is just hearsay and sounds a bit clichéd.
Thanks very much,
Ms. A. Jones,
Scotland
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Litvinoff/Michelsen - Odessa #ukraine

Paul Wolf <pwolf1@...>
 

At 11:11 PM 3/3/2002 +0000, Anne Moore wrote:
My grandparents, Maksim and Rosa Litvinoff (nee Michelsen) arrived in
London >from Odessa in 1913.
[snip]
My father believed that some of his family had emigrated >from Odessa to
South America. Perhaps Maksim followed them there.
You might try a phone search in Argentina.
http://www.teldir.com/real/frame.asp?page=http://www.paginas-doradas.com.ar/PDPortal/guia_telefonica/guia_telefonica.asp


Enter "litvinoff" in the box for "appelido", select "Ciudad de Buenos
Aires" in the box for "Provincia" and hit the buttom marked "buscar".

There are 12 Litvinoff listing shown.

Paul Wolf in San Diego
Re: new addresses #lithuania

bernard gradman <barneygradman@...>
 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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andy,
thanks for the update. you do a great service.

barney gradman

------ Original Message -----

From: A. Cassel
Sent: Sun, Mar 3, 2002 11:20am
To: Keidan SIG <keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: new addresses
Friends and fellow Keidaners,

This is just an update and reminder, that as of March 1 both my email
address and the address of the Keidan website have changed.

For now, the Keidan site may be visited at:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/acassel/keidan

And my own email address is:

acassel@comcast.net

I'm sorry for the inconvenience; it's occasioned by the bankruptcy of my
previous Internet supplier and their takeover by this new outfit. I'm
looking into obtaining a permanent web-domain address for the Keidan =
site --
something like www.keidan.net perhaps; I'll keep you all posted on the
progress there.

Thanks for your continued support and interest.

Andy Cassel


---
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JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
Please show your appreciation and support by visiting
http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/
You are currently subscribed to keidan as: [barneygradman@msn.com]
To unsubscribe send email to $subst('Email.Unsub')
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<BODY><BR>andy,<BR>thanks for the update. you do a great =
service.<BR><BR>barney gradman<BR><BR>
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 0px; =
BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px; COLOR: #000000; FONT: =
10pt trebuchet ms; LETTER-SPACING: normal; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; =
TEXT-ALIGN: left; TEXT-DECORATION: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WIDTH: =
100%">------ Original Message -----<BR>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #c0c0c0"><B>From:</B> A. Cassel</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sun, Mar 3, 2002 11:20am</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> =
Keidan&nbsp;SIG&nbsp;&lt;keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> new&nbsp;addresses</DIV></DIV><BR>Friends and =
fellow Keidaners,<BR><BR>This is just an update and reminder, that as of =
March 1 both my email<BR>address and the address of the Keidan website =
have changed.<BR><BR>For now, the Keidan site may be visited =
at:<BR><BR><A =
href=3D"http://mywebpages.comcast.net/acassel/keidan">http://mywebpages.c=
omcast.net/acassel/keidan</A><BR><BR>And my own email address =
is:<BR><BR><A =
href=3D"mailto:acassel@comcast.net">acassel@comcast.net</A><BR><BR>I'm =
sorry for the inconvenience; it's occasioned by the bankruptcy of =
my<BR>previous Internet supplier and their takeover by this new outfit. =
I'm<BR>looking into obtaining a permanent web-domain address for the =
Keidan site --<BR>something like <A =
href=3D"http://www.keidan.net">www.keidan.net</A> perhaps; I'll keep you =
all posted on the<BR>progress there.<BR><BR>Thanks for your continued =
support and interest.<BR><BR>Andy Cassel<BR><BR><BR>---<BR>This List (<A =
href=3D"mailto:keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org)">keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org)</=
A> is hosted by<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JewishGen: =
The Home of Jewish =
Genealogy<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Visit our home =
page at <A =
href=3D"http://www.jewishgen.org">http://www.jewishgen.org</A><BR>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please show your appreciation and support by =
visiting<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/">http://www.jewishgen=
.org/Jewishgen-erosity/</A><BR>You are currently subscribed to keidan =
as: [<A =
href=3D"mailto:barneygradman@msn.com">barneygradman@msn.com</A>]<BR>To =
unsubscribe send email to <A =
href=3D"mailto:$subst('Email.Unsub')">leave-keidan-168=
289W@lyris.jewishgen.org</A><BR></BODY>
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Keidan Jews #Keidan #Lithuania RE: new addresses #lithuania

bernard gradman <barneygradman@...>
 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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andy,
thanks for the update. you do a great service.

barney gradman

------ Original Message -----

From: A. Cassel
Sent: Sun, Mar 3, 2002 11:20am
To: Keidan SIG <keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: new addresses
Friends and fellow Keidaners,

This is just an update and reminder, that as of March 1 both my email
address and the address of the Keidan website have changed.

For now, the Keidan site may be visited at:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/acassel/keidan

And my own email address is:

acassel@comcast.net

I'm sorry for the inconvenience; it's occasioned by the bankruptcy of my
previous Internet supplier and their takeover by this new outfit. I'm
looking into obtaining a permanent web-domain address for the Keidan =
site --
something like www.keidan.net perhaps; I'll keep you all posted on the
progress there.

Thanks for your continued support and interest.

Andy Cassel


---
This List (keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
Please show your appreciation and support by visiting
http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/
You are currently subscribed to keidan as: [barneygradman@msn.com]
To unsubscribe send email to $subst('Email.Unsub')
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


<BODY><BR>andy,<BR>thanks for the update. you do a great =
service.<BR><BR>barney gradman<BR><BR>
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 0px; =
BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px; COLOR: #000000; FONT: =
10pt trebuchet ms; LETTER-SPACING: normal; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; =
TEXT-ALIGN: left; TEXT-DECORATION: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WIDTH: =
100%">------ Original Message -----<BR>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #c0c0c0"><B>From:</B> A. Cassel</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sun, Mar 3, 2002 11:20am</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> =
Keidan&nbsp;SIG&nbsp;&lt;keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> new&nbsp;addresses</DIV></DIV><BR>Friends and =
fellow Keidaners,<BR><BR>This is just an update and reminder, that as of =
March 1 both my email<BR>address and the address of the Keidan website =
have changed.<BR><BR>For now, the Keidan site may be visited =
at:<BR><BR><A =
href=3D"http://mywebpages.comcast.net/acassel/keidan">http://mywebpages.c=
omcast.net/acassel/keidan</A><BR><BR>And my own email address =
is:<BR><BR><A =
href=3D"mailto:acassel@comcast.net">acassel@comcast.net</A><BR><BR>I'm =
sorry for the inconvenience; it's occasioned by the bankruptcy of =
my<BR>previous Internet supplier and their takeover by this new outfit. =
I'm<BR>looking into obtaining a permanent web-domain address for the =
Keidan site --<BR>something like <A =
href=3D"http://www.keidan.net">www.keidan.net</A> perhaps; I'll keep you =
all posted on the<BR>progress there.<BR><BR>Thanks for your continued =
support and interest.<BR><BR>Andy Cassel<BR><BR><BR>---<BR>This List (<A =
href=3D"mailto:keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org)">keidan@lyris.jewishgen.org)</=
A> is hosted by<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JewishGen: =
The Home of Jewish =
Genealogy<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Visit our home =
page at <A =
href=3D"http://www.jewishgen.org">http://www.jewishgen.org</A><BR>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please show your appreciation and support by =
visiting<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/">http://www.jewishgen=
.org/Jewishgen-erosity/</A><BR>You are currently subscribed to keidan =
as: [<A =
href=3D"mailto:barneygradman@msn.com">barneygradman@msn.com</A>]<BR>To =
unsubscribe send email to <A =
href=3D"mailto:$subst('Email.Unsub')">leave-keidan-168=
289W@lyris.jewishgen.org</A><BR></BODY>
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New AGAD Archives Project Status Report #poland

Willie46@...
 

The AGAD Archives project is unveiling a new and improved
Project Status Report. This report will provide the information
researchers need to track the indexing of Jewish vital records
for 86 Administrative towns in East Galicia.

Edward Rosenbaum, already the webmaster for the Belarus SIG
and President of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Bergen
County (New Jersey), has volunteered to be webmaster for the
AGAD project. Ed has done a fantastic job to develop this user
friendly status report for 86 Galician towns that make up the
AGAD project.

You can find the new Status Report at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/agad/agadtowns.html> or
through "town" and "table" links on the AGAD homepage
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/agad/index.htm> and the
Great Galician Indexing Race page
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/galicia/index.htm>.

The page is organized alphabetically by the current name of
the 86 Galician towns (83 of the towns are currently in
Ukraine and 3 in Poland). The table summarizes the records
available for indexing, the current status of funding, and the
current status of indexing. Clicking on the town name
provides more details, including links to the Town Leader,
Yizkor Book translations, ShtetLink sites, Surname lists,
and Research groups, if available.

I would like to thank Edward Rosenbaum for his dedicated
efforts to bring Galician researchers a better resource to track
progress about their towns. Edward plans to update this status
report every week or two, so check back often.

Mark Halpern
AGAD Archives Coordinator
Help with Polish words #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

In Polish records I just received >from Salt Lake City I have come across
a few problems I hope you can help me with:

1. I find two different words for teacher: Bakalarz and Szkolnik. Is
there a difference - if yes, which?

2. In a D record >from Lublin 1843 I read: died Rubin GRADEL, born and
living in Lublin "Zonaty Dzielny Duchowny" age 51, son of ... etc.

Zonaty(married) dzielny(district) Duchowny?? My dictionary says the word
has to do with clergy. In this context could it mean district synagogue?
Or that his marriage (abt. 1815-20 judging >from the age of him and his
children) is recorded in the district church register?

Thanks

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
JRI Poland #Poland New AGAD Archives Project Status Report #poland

Willie46@...
 

The AGAD Archives project is unveiling a new and improved
Project Status Report. This report will provide the information
researchers need to track the indexing of Jewish vital records
for 86 Administrative towns in East Galicia.

Edward Rosenbaum, already the webmaster for the Belarus SIG
and President of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Bergen
County (New Jersey), has volunteered to be webmaster for the
AGAD project. Ed has done a fantastic job to develop this user
friendly status report for 86 Galician towns that make up the
AGAD project.

You can find the new Status Report at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/agad/agadtowns.html> or
through "town" and "table" links on the AGAD homepage
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/agad/index.htm> and the
Great Galician Indexing Race page
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/galicia/index.htm>.

The page is organized alphabetically by the current name of
the 86 Galician towns (83 of the towns are currently in
Ukraine and 3 in Poland). The table summarizes the records
available for indexing, the current status of funding, and the
current status of indexing. Clicking on the town name
provides more details, including links to the Town Leader,
Yizkor Book translations, ShtetLink sites, Surname lists,
and Research groups, if available.

I would like to thank Edward Rosenbaum for his dedicated
efforts to bring Galician researchers a better resource to track
progress about their towns. Edward plans to update this status
report every week or two, so check back often.

Mark Halpern
AGAD Archives Coordinator
JRI Poland #Poland Help with Polish words #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

In Polish records I just received >from Salt Lake City I have come across
a few problems I hope you can help me with:

1. I find two different words for teacher: Bakalarz and Szkolnik. Is
there a difference - if yes, which?

2. In a D record >from Lublin 1843 I read: died Rubin GRADEL, born and
living in Lublin "Zonaty Dzielny Duchowny" age 51, son of ... etc.

Zonaty(married) dzielny(district) Duchowny?? My dictionary says the word
has to do with clergy. In this context could it mean district synagogue?
Or that his marriage (abt. 1815-20 judging >from the age of him and his
children) is recorded in the district church register?

Thanks

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
Re: Re Karo/Caro as a surname #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 3/3/2002 6:08:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Chava Agmon,
writing for Caro Family Research (havahug@barak-online.net) writes:

<< . . . . [m]ost Ashkenasi Caro-s are written only Kof-Reish-Alef . . .
As we deal in *Jewish* genealogy, the name is . . . . originally a
*Hebrew* term-but this means it is neither Ashkenasi nor Sephardi. The
multitude of spelling variations and changes appeared only much later
during the long period of exile after the destruction of the 2nd Temple. >>

==I take this to mean that K/Caro was a Hebrew name in use during the
Second Temple period and prior to the Exile. I would be very interested
in hearing of the occurences of the name prior to the settlement of Jews
in the Hispanic Peninsula. Was it a Hebrew name or was it Aramaic? What
is the source?

Of course many "Ashkenazi" names had origins in "Sephardi" centers in
Spain and Provense. The Yiddish "Yenta" is one amusing example

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER
NARA soundex update #general

Bernard Kouchel <koosh@...>
 

For years the National Archives has been publishing Soundex guides that
omitted a rule found in the original instructions, and the omission has
been perpetuated in genealogical "how to" books based on the NARA guides.
An updated guide to the Soundex Indexing System now appears on the NARA
Website at http://www.nara.gov/genealogy/coding.html

<koosh@att.net>
Bernard Kouchel
Kiev help #general

Neil@...
 

I am trying to find out if the Kiev Jewish cemetery >from the 1930's
still exists and whom to contact for help.
Thanks,

Dr. Neil Rosenstein
Elizabeth, NJ Tel: 908-353-5575
Email: neil@tali.com
http://tali.com/neilr
Morris #general

Elynn Boss <bossgen@...>
 

My grandfather Moshe became Morris. My grandmothers brother
Moshe also became Morris.

Elynn Boss
bossgen@ev1.net
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Re Karo/Caro as a surname #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 3/3/2002 6:08:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Chava Agmon,
writing for Caro Family Research (havahug@barak-online.net) writes:

<< . . . . [m]ost Ashkenasi Caro-s are written only Kof-Reish-Alef . . .
As we deal in *Jewish* genealogy, the name is . . . . originally a
*Hebrew* term-but this means it is neither Ashkenasi nor Sephardi. The
multitude of spelling variations and changes appeared only much later
during the long period of exile after the destruction of the 2nd Temple. >>

==I take this to mean that K/Caro was a Hebrew name in use during the
Second Temple period and prior to the Exile. I would be very interested
in hearing of the occurences of the name prior to the settlement of Jews
in the Hispanic Peninsula. Was it a Hebrew name or was it Aramaic? What
is the source?

Of course many "Ashkenazi" names had origins in "Sephardi" centers in
Spain and Provense. The Yiddish "Yenta" is one amusing example

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NARA soundex update #general

Bernard Kouchel <koosh@...>
 

For years the National Archives has been publishing Soundex guides that
omitted a rule found in the original instructions, and the omission has
been perpetuated in genealogical "how to" books based on the NARA guides.
An updated guide to the Soundex Indexing System now appears on the NARA
Website at http://www.nara.gov/genealogy/coding.html

<koosh@att.net>
Bernard Kouchel
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kiev help #general

Neil@...
 

I am trying to find out if the Kiev Jewish cemetery >from the 1930's
still exists and whom to contact for help.
Thanks,

Dr. Neil Rosenstein
Elizabeth, NJ Tel: 908-353-5575
Email: neil@tali.com
http://tali.com/neilr
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Morris #general

Elynn Boss <bossgen@...>
 

My grandfather Moshe became Morris. My grandmothers brother
Moshe also became Morris.

Elynn Boss
bossgen@ev1.net
Litvinoff/Michelsen - Odessa #ukraine

Anne Moore <Ja.Moore@...>
 

My grandparents, Maksim and Rosa Litvinoff (nee Michelsen) arrived in
London >from Odessa in 1913. They had four sons: Abraham (Alfred) - my
father, Emmanual, Pinchus and Barnet. Maksim returned to Russia to fight
in the First World War and never returned to England. He was last seen
running for the boat to bring him back to his family. Can anyone throw
any light on what happened to him?

My father believed that some of his family had emigrated >from Odessa to
South America. Perhaps Maksim followed them there.

I'd be interested to hear if any other researchers know of any Litvinoffs
in Odessa.

Regards

Anne Moore

Researching: LITVINOFF and MICHELSEN: Odessa
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Litvinoff/Michelsen - Odessa #ukraine

Anne Moore <Ja.Moore@...>
 

My grandparents, Maksim and Rosa Litvinoff (nee Michelsen) arrived in
London >from Odessa in 1913. They had four sons: Abraham (Alfred) - my
father, Emmanual, Pinchus and Barnet. Maksim returned to Russia to fight
in the First World War and never returned to England. He was last seen
running for the boat to bring him back to his family. Can anyone throw
any light on what happened to him?

My father believed that some of his family had emigrated >from Odessa to
South America. Perhaps Maksim followed them there.

I'd be interested to hear if any other researchers know of any Litvinoffs
in Odessa.

Regards

Anne Moore

Researching: LITVINOFF and MICHELSEN: Odessa
498141 - 498160 of 668861