Date   

Re: "Miory" (belarus digest: November 21, 2002) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

In a message dated 11/21/02 Andrew Blumberg (ajb61@bellatlantic.net) writes:

<<
Can anyone tell me anything about the town of Miory, which is 17 mi SW
of Drissa (Verkhnedvinsk)? My great-grandmother Mary RITZ, her brother
and sister all stated that they were >from Miory, according to Ellis
Island ship's manifests. Other than a location I have been able to find
very little about this town. >>

The only things that Chester G. Cohen's Shtetl Finder Gazetteer has to add is
that the town Miory or Miro, is northeast of Vilna and southeast of Dvinsk,
and that a rabbi name Duber Pinaka, bornin 1887 was its rabbi.

My 1962 Columbia Lipponcott Gazetteer says that Miory had a population in
1939 of over 500. It was in a poorly drained area. People were engaged in
lumbering and match manufacturing.

I did a little searching at Jewishgen for this town and on the internet but
the only other thing I learned >from Jewishgen's Discussion Group Archives is
that someone's relative was murdered by the Germans there in 1942,if I
remember the date correctly.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


Re: Mt. Zion Cemetery - L.A. #general

Joan Parker <housemom@...>
 

In most cases if you write a letter giving as much information as you can,
you probably will receive an answer. Be sure to include a SASE. I wrote
to all the Mt. Zion cemeteries in NY and within a week received copies of
each of my maternal grandparents burial information: David and Rebecca
Goldberg. I wrote back thanking them and politely asked them to see if
any other Goldbergs were in the same area. Again, within in a few days,
back came another burial record for a child Leo Goldberg, but so far I can
find no connection to this child.

This is not a death certificate, but name, death date, burial date,
address, age (not birthday), society, and of course grave site location.

Another situation is a phone call, however, the person who might answer
might not want to be bothered to even look it up beyond a quick look.
This happened at Washington Cemetery when a NY contact made the call for
me. They gave him the info about my paternal Gm but said there was
nothing for my Gf as *records are spotty.*

Bless his heart (A. Jordan) who called back the next day, got another
person who gavehim the info about my Gf. It even included next of kin,
who in this case was my dad, not his older brother.

Good luck!!!!
Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and Brooklyn, NY;
PINKUS and WINOGRAD-Odessa, Ukraine and Brooklyn, NY; GELFAND-Minsk and
Bronx, NY; YEHUDIS; KATZ, Bronx, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackye Sullins" <jsullins@san.rr.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Mt. Zion Cemetery - L.A.

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to get information >from Mt. Zion
cemetery? I've just discovered that I have someone buried there.

Jackye Sullins
San Diego


Re: Organizing Records Effectively--Avoiding unnecessary duplication #general

David Edelman <pappapeach43@...>
 

Dear All;

If I may say, I try to keep things as simple as possible. I have one *D*
ring book for my family, and a seperate one for my wifes, different color
to make it easier to identify. I have deviders for: Birth; Social
Security; Marriage; Death; Misc, both books arranges in the same order.
Although I will try to get absolutlyeveryone listed on our tree, no matter
how remotly related, I consentrate on documents for only those directly
related to us, straight up and down.

All documents are placed in each section chronologically. If there is one
that mearly has the event, but does not show the date, I will place it by
most logical dtes possible. A letter, (including E-mail), on the
otherhand, is not really a document, unless it is very specific, so those
I keep in a seperate bag, all togather, but still saved, so I can go back
to it, if needed.

If a particular line is suddenly getting too big, say a maternal
grandmother family, then all people directly related to that one side will
then become a whole new binder. Since all of the documents are being kept
in Archival pages, it is very easy to move >from one book to another, as
needed.

David Edelman,
San Francisco.
Searching:
EDELMAN; FEINSTEIN, Riga; ROSENBURG; STEIN, Dvinsk, Latvia, to New York.
DUNN, Riga to London and New York.
Allen, Lomza, Poland to London and New York.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Sloan" <jeanne4_98@yahoo.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: Organizing Records Effectively--Avoiding unnecessary duplication

Each person must decide what works best for her own situation, but
since the original suggestion was mine, I will tell you what I do.
from my perspective, it is most important to put the document with the
documents of the major interested party. Therefore I would file the
will under the name of the testator and, if necessary, file a note as
to location in the other files. Another possiblity is a sheet stapled
to the front of the other files, with cross-referencing.

I put marriage certificates in the file of the "new" family. Thus my
grandparents' marriage certificate is filed under their joint surname.
In my own case, I don't have a large number of original documents at
this time, so it suffices to have folders with the surname only and
group individuals with the same surname in them .
Barbara Sloan
New Haven, CT


Re: Census records accuracy #general

Babette C Bloch <bvcb@...>
 

When I first got started searching census records, I was fortunate enough
to run into a professional genealogist at the NY Public Library. He
happened to mention that census data could be very incorrect, for all the
reasons given in various replies here.

Therefore, he suggested that I always check at least two consecutive
census years for any person and compare the information. If you find the
same names, dates, countries of origin in two or more census records, you
can probably count on its being fairly correct.

Babette Bloch


Laguna Niguel Look-Up Request #general

Steve Orlen
 

Dear Folks,

If anyone is willing to do a Naturalization look-up for me at Laguna
Niguel, in southern California, I would greatly appreciate it. Please
contact me at sorlen@u.arizona.edu

Best for a happy Holiday,

Steve Orlen
Tucson, Arizona

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: "Miory" (belarus digest: November 21, 2002) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

In a message dated 11/21/02 Andrew Blumberg (ajb61@bellatlantic.net) writes:

<<
Can anyone tell me anything about the town of Miory, which is 17 mi SW
of Drissa (Verkhnedvinsk)? My great-grandmother Mary RITZ, her brother
and sister all stated that they were >from Miory, according to Ellis
Island ship's manifests. Other than a location I have been able to find
very little about this town. >>

The only things that Chester G. Cohen's Shtetl Finder Gazetteer has to add is
that the town Miory or Miro, is northeast of Vilna and southeast of Dvinsk,
and that a rabbi name Duber Pinaka, bornin 1887 was its rabbi.

My 1962 Columbia Lipponcott Gazetteer says that Miory had a population in
1939 of over 500. It was in a poorly drained area. People were engaged in
lumbering and match manufacturing.

I did a little searching at Jewishgen for this town and on the internet but
the only other thing I learned >from Jewishgen's Discussion Group Archives is
that someone's relative was murdered by the Germans there in 1942,if I
remember the date correctly.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Mt. Zion Cemetery - L.A. #general

Joan Parker <housemom@...>
 

In most cases if you write a letter giving as much information as you can,
you probably will receive an answer. Be sure to include a SASE. I wrote
to all the Mt. Zion cemeteries in NY and within a week received copies of
each of my maternal grandparents burial information: David and Rebecca
Goldberg. I wrote back thanking them and politely asked them to see if
any other Goldbergs were in the same area. Again, within in a few days,
back came another burial record for a child Leo Goldberg, but so far I can
find no connection to this child.

This is not a death certificate, but name, death date, burial date,
address, age (not birthday), society, and of course grave site location.

Another situation is a phone call, however, the person who might answer
might not want to be bothered to even look it up beyond a quick look.
This happened at Washington Cemetery when a NY contact made the call for
me. They gave him the info about my paternal Gm but said there was
nothing for my Gf as *records are spotty.*

Bless his heart (A. Jordan) who called back the next day, got another
person who gavehim the info about my Gf. It even included next of kin,
who in this case was my dad, not his older brother.

Good luck!!!!
Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and Brooklyn, NY;
PINKUS and WINOGRAD-Odessa, Ukraine and Brooklyn, NY; GELFAND-Minsk and
Bronx, NY; YEHUDIS; KATZ, Bronx, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackye Sullins" <jsullins@san.rr.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Mt. Zion Cemetery - L.A.

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to get information >from Mt. Zion
cemetery? I've just discovered that I have someone buried there.

Jackye Sullins
San Diego


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Organizing Records Effectively--Avoiding unnecessary duplication #general

David Edelman <pappapeach43@...>
 

Dear All;

If I may say, I try to keep things as simple as possible. I have one *D*
ring book for my family, and a seperate one for my wifes, different color
to make it easier to identify. I have deviders for: Birth; Social
Security; Marriage; Death; Misc, both books arranges in the same order.
Although I will try to get absolutlyeveryone listed on our tree, no matter
how remotly related, I consentrate on documents for only those directly
related to us, straight up and down.

All documents are placed in each section chronologically. If there is one
that mearly has the event, but does not show the date, I will place it by
most logical dtes possible. A letter, (including E-mail), on the
otherhand, is not really a document, unless it is very specific, so those
I keep in a seperate bag, all togather, but still saved, so I can go back
to it, if needed.

If a particular line is suddenly getting too big, say a maternal
grandmother family, then all people directly related to that one side will
then become a whole new binder. Since all of the documents are being kept
in Archival pages, it is very easy to move >from one book to another, as
needed.

David Edelman,
San Francisco.
Searching:
EDELMAN; FEINSTEIN, Riga; ROSENBURG; STEIN, Dvinsk, Latvia, to New York.
DUNN, Riga to London and New York.
Allen, Lomza, Poland to London and New York.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Sloan" <jeanne4_98@yahoo.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: Organizing Records Effectively--Avoiding unnecessary duplication

Each person must decide what works best for her own situation, but
since the original suggestion was mine, I will tell you what I do.
from my perspective, it is most important to put the document with the
documents of the major interested party. Therefore I would file the
will under the name of the testator and, if necessary, file a note as
to location in the other files. Another possiblity is a sheet stapled
to the front of the other files, with cross-referencing.

I put marriage certificates in the file of the "new" family. Thus my
grandparents' marriage certificate is filed under their joint surname.
In my own case, I don't have a large number of original documents at
this time, so it suffices to have folders with the surname only and
group individuals with the same surname in them .
Barbara Sloan
New Haven, CT


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Census records accuracy #general

Babette C Bloch <bvcb@...>
 

When I first got started searching census records, I was fortunate enough
to run into a professional genealogist at the NY Public Library. He
happened to mention that census data could be very incorrect, for all the
reasons given in various replies here.

Therefore, he suggested that I always check at least two consecutive
census years for any person and compare the information. If you find the
same names, dates, countries of origin in two or more census records, you
can probably count on its being fairly correct.

Babette Bloch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Laguna Niguel Look-Up Request #general

Steve Orlen
 

Dear Folks,

If anyone is willing to do a Naturalization look-up for me at Laguna
Niguel, in southern California, I would greatly appreciate it. Please
contact me at sorlen@u.arizona.edu

Best for a happy Holiday,

Steve Orlen
Tucson, Arizona

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.


Amdur...Indura... #belarus

Gabriel Amdur <gabiamdur@...>
 

Hi, my name as you can see is Gabriel Amdur. I´m from
Argentina and at the moment I´m living in Barcelona,
working in the oldest Sinagogue in town. The Mayor
Sinagogue >from the XIII century in "Barrio Gotico". It
is now a museum but we are trying to restore the old
"Call" and we are making a documentary about it.

I was 27 on the 20th of october I studied Cinema in
Buenos Aires and I was doing some documentaries from
an NGO in Belgium before coming to Spain.

I´m also working in a film about my surname...and of
course about Indura !!

I know that we are not so much (the Amdur´s) and
Jewish Gen was the possibilitty to know other Amdur´s
around the world...because we came >from the same place
and we are(in a way) family.

We are only a few Amdur in Argentina. Only 2 or 3
families...Can you imagine that? And in Mar del Plata
where I was born...only my closest Family (Father:
Alfredo, Brother: Adrian, and mother Lidia Levi "de
Amdur").

This email is just to introduce myself hoping that you
would be interested in my next film...

Big hug to all of you...

Gabriel Amdur.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Amdur...Indura... #belarus

Gabriel Amdur <gabiamdur@...>
 

Hi, my name as you can see is Gabriel Amdur. I´m from
Argentina and at the moment I´m living in Barcelona,
working in the oldest Sinagogue in town. The Mayor
Sinagogue >from the XIII century in "Barrio Gotico". It
is now a museum but we are trying to restore the old
"Call" and we are making a documentary about it.

I was 27 on the 20th of october I studied Cinema in
Buenos Aires and I was doing some documentaries from
an NGO in Belgium before coming to Spain.

I´m also working in a film about my surname...and of
course about Indura !!

I know that we are not so much (the Amdur´s) and
Jewish Gen was the possibilitty to know other Amdur´s
around the world...because we came >from the same place
and we are(in a way) family.

We are only a few Amdur in Argentina. Only 2 or 3
families...Can you imagine that? And in Mar del Plata
where I was born...only my closest Family (Father:
Alfredo, Brother: Adrian, and mother Lidia Levi "de
Amdur").

This email is just to introduce myself hoping that you
would be interested in my next film...

Big hug to all of you...

Gabriel Amdur.


Re: Census disappointment #general

Linda <altmanlh@...>
 

While it is true that the census is not always accurate, it still is a
valuable tool. It gives you a starting place to look for other
information. It can also answer questions. For example in the 1910 census
my g.g. grandparents Wolf and Betti LIEBERMAN are listed. The first time
I looked at this page I wasn't even sure that this was the right family so
I disregarded it. I just filed it away under misc. LIEBERMAN's. Then I
went back and took a good look at that page.
Wow! This is what I found out:
1)It was the right family, listing a widowed son that I had not known of before.

2)Their married daughter Sophia, was a few doors away with her husband and
3 children. The ages of the children match with other information I have.

3)The mysterious Issac RUBINBAUM, a witness to my grandparents wedding was
also living in the same apt. building. He may be a relative through
marriage. I believe his daughter Becky married one of the LIEBERMAN
brothers still living at home. Issac owned a tailor shop and I now wonder
if he helped my g.grandfather set up his laundry business.

4)It supported the possibility that my g.g. grandfather Wolf, may have been
married before. (I have suspected this based on birth records that I have)
He is almost 30 yrs older than his wife. His age agrees with the birth
records I have for his children. Betti's age is never listed on the birth
records.

5)Combined with other documents I have, I got a really good snapshot of
this family between 1909 and April of 1910. A daughter of Wolf and Betti,
named Berlina, was living at home and in Sept of 1909 a pregnant Berlina
marries Louis and they live with Wolf and Betti. Based on city
directories, Louis was living with them before they were offically
married. Now, you have Wolf and Betti, 3 adult men ages 25 to 35, the
newly wedded Berlina and Louis, possibly a widowed aunt, and possibly a 21
yr old neice, all living in the same flat on the lower east side. It is
possible that the neice and aunt did not reside there at the same time
that Louis and Berlina did. In Feb of 1910 Berlina and Louis have a
daughter Anna, and sometime before the 1910 census they moved to E. 8th
street.

6)It also told me that I have some more research to do:
There is a 21 year old single neice living with this family, no one has
any idea of who she is. There is a 58 yr old widowed aunt living with
them, it does not appear that this aunt is the mother of the neice - the
surnames are different. She is another mystery, nobody has ever heard of
her. And, My g.g. grandmother stated that she had a total of 9 children
with 7 still living. I can only account for a total of 5.

So, even though census information may not always be accurate, it still
should beused as a way to guide you to other records and as a way to piece
together a family's particular situation for a given year.


Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
CHILLER/CHILLAR >from Lomza Gubernia, Poland.
CYBULA/CYBULKA (all variations), Ostrow Maz.,Siedlce,& Zambrow Poland.
KRIEDBERG (all variations) >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN or LIBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.


Re: Hebrew translation #galicia

HMW(rr) <mwienstein@...>
 

I want to thank everyone for their quick help on this.

Thanks,

Murray Weinstein
mwienstein@sw.rr.com


"HMW , rr" <mwienstein@sw.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Q3bD9.13406$Gc.387444@twister.austin.rr.com...

I have a page >from Tel Aviv directory of listings for Szmidts (Schmidt).
I would appreciate if anyone could translate it for me.

http://home.att.net/~hymurstein/other/szmidt-1b.jpg


Ha Yehudi HaKadosh #general

MKorbman@...
 

Dear list:

A while back ago I had posted a question regarding HaYehudi Hakadosh. It is
amazing the responses I had received. I want to thank Nachum Tuchman for
his recent posting to the group and to everyone else who had responded.
Through all the postings I was able to assemble quite a large tree but am
yet to find the proof statement for my own research. I have a question
that possibly Nachum in his recent posting or possible the group could
help with:

Firstly, I have some conflicting info with Nachum's recent posting:
I found that the daughter of HaYehudi Hakadosh married to Moshe b' Dovid
Biederman was Rivka Rachel. The daughter whose name may not have been
documented was married to a Shmuel Rafaels. Of the children listed of
Rivka Rachel and Moshe Biderman, I have another child listed by the name
of Shlomo Yechiel. Although I do not have the name of his wife, she was
the daughter of Yosef Horowitz m'Toroczyna.

As for my own research:

I am currently trying to find a connection between the Fabricant family and
HaYehudi HaKadosh. A tree I received, >from a now deceased relative lists a
Bubbe Golda Rabinovich who possibly married a Benyamin Fabricant. This
tree list Golda as a descendant of HaYehudi HaKadosh. Since there is a
Golda Rabinovich who was the wife of HaYehudi Hakadosh's son Yerachmiel.
I am guessing that the Golda I am looking for was Yerachmiel & Golda's
granddaughter. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Melinda Korbman

New Jersey
Mkorbman@levi.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Census disappointment #general

Linda <altmanlh@...>
 

While it is true that the census is not always accurate, it still is a
valuable tool. It gives you a starting place to look for other
information. It can also answer questions. For example in the 1910 census
my g.g. grandparents Wolf and Betti LIEBERMAN are listed. The first time
I looked at this page I wasn't even sure that this was the right family so
I disregarded it. I just filed it away under misc. LIEBERMAN's. Then I
went back and took a good look at that page.
Wow! This is what I found out:
1)It was the right family, listing a widowed son that I had not known of before.

2)Their married daughter Sophia, was a few doors away with her husband and
3 children. The ages of the children match with other information I have.

3)The mysterious Issac RUBINBAUM, a witness to my grandparents wedding was
also living in the same apt. building. He may be a relative through
marriage. I believe his daughter Becky married one of the LIEBERMAN
brothers still living at home. Issac owned a tailor shop and I now wonder
if he helped my g.grandfather set up his laundry business.

4)It supported the possibility that my g.g. grandfather Wolf, may have been
married before. (I have suspected this based on birth records that I have)
He is almost 30 yrs older than his wife. His age agrees with the birth
records I have for his children. Betti's age is never listed on the birth
records.

5)Combined with other documents I have, I got a really good snapshot of
this family between 1909 and April of 1910. A daughter of Wolf and Betti,
named Berlina, was living at home and in Sept of 1909 a pregnant Berlina
marries Louis and they live with Wolf and Betti. Based on city
directories, Louis was living with them before they were offically
married. Now, you have Wolf and Betti, 3 adult men ages 25 to 35, the
newly wedded Berlina and Louis, possibly a widowed aunt, and possibly a 21
yr old neice, all living in the same flat on the lower east side. It is
possible that the neice and aunt did not reside there at the same time
that Louis and Berlina did. In Feb of 1910 Berlina and Louis have a
daughter Anna, and sometime before the 1910 census they moved to E. 8th
street.

6)It also told me that I have some more research to do:
There is a 21 year old single neice living with this family, no one has
any idea of who she is. There is a 58 yr old widowed aunt living with
them, it does not appear that this aunt is the mother of the neice - the
surnames are different. She is another mystery, nobody has ever heard of
her. And, My g.g. grandmother stated that she had a total of 9 children
with 7 still living. I can only account for a total of 5.

So, even though census information may not always be accurate, it still
should beused as a way to guide you to other records and as a way to piece
together a family's particular situation for a given year.


Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
CHILLER/CHILLAR >from Lomza Gubernia, Poland.
CYBULA/CYBULKA (all variations), Ostrow Maz.,Siedlce,& Zambrow Poland.
KRIEDBERG (all variations) >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN or LIBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Hebrew translation #general

HMW(rr) <mwienstein@...>
 

I want to thank everyone for their quick help on this.

Thanks,

Murray Weinstein
mwienstein@sw.rr.com


"HMW , rr" <mwienstein@sw.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Q3bD9.13406$Gc.387444@twister.austin.rr.com...

I have a page >from Tel Aviv directory of listings for Szmidts (Schmidt).
I would appreciate if anyone could translate it for me.

http://home.att.net/~hymurstein/other/szmidt-1b.jpg


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ha Yehudi HaKadosh #general

MKorbman@...
 

Dear list:

A while back ago I had posted a question regarding HaYehudi Hakadosh. It is
amazing the responses I had received. I want to thank Nachum Tuchman for
his recent posting to the group and to everyone else who had responded.
Through all the postings I was able to assemble quite a large tree but am
yet to find the proof statement for my own research. I have a question
that possibly Nachum in his recent posting or possible the group could
help with:

Firstly, I have some conflicting info with Nachum's recent posting:
I found that the daughter of HaYehudi Hakadosh married to Moshe b' Dovid
Biederman was Rivka Rachel. The daughter whose name may not have been
documented was married to a Shmuel Rafaels. Of the children listed of
Rivka Rachel and Moshe Biderman, I have another child listed by the name
of Shlomo Yechiel. Although I do not have the name of his wife, she was
the daughter of Yosef Horowitz m'Toroczyna.

As for my own research:

I am currently trying to find a connection between the Fabricant family and
HaYehudi HaKadosh. A tree I received, >from a now deceased relative lists a
Bubbe Golda Rabinovich who possibly married a Benyamin Fabricant. This
tree list Golda as a descendant of HaYehudi HaKadosh. Since there is a
Golda Rabinovich who was the wife of HaYehudi Hakadosh's son Yerachmiel.
I am guessing that the Golda I am looking for was Yerachmiel & Golda's
granddaughter. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Melinda Korbman

New Jersey
Mkorbman@levi.com


Re: Census disappointment #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Every document will have its *disappointments* but without them we would
have nothing to go by. I have found censuses one of the most useful tools
for finding additional family members, emigration dates, marriage dates,
etc.
Diane Jacobs
New York

Dina Hill has posted a message about disappointment with the US Census:
The main reliability of the US Census has to be the probability that the
enumerated people were living (at least temporarily) at the location when
the census taker visited.

Dennis Gries
Fort Washington, Pa


Re: No, our descendents do not increase geometrically without limit! Genealogy by the numbers #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

It doesn't take 6 generations and forgetting who our cousins are for Jews
to marry relatives. First cousin marriages were very common, and even
uncles marrying nieces was pretty common. It was exceedingly common for a
brother and sister to marry a sister and brother who were first cousins of
the brother and sister; also for 2 brother to marry 2 sisters who were
cousins.

Nevertheless, the situation is the same. Over the centuries, we continue
to become related to more and more of the population of which we are
talking about (Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe for example). In a larger
population of Ashkenazi Jews of Europe the same thing applies. In spite of
cousin marriages, the cousins who have a common grandfather have other
grandparents-on the other side of the family and in some cases when a
Mother died, the cousins might have 3 grandparents who are different with
a common grandfather. That means that those 3 potentially are connections
to those ancestors who the common grandfather (for example) might not be
related to.

You can see this effect in any relatively stable congregation or city. My
brother and his scout troop used to play the game of seeing how everyone
was related. My 2nd cousin married your 1st cousin-so we are related.
And your cousin married his uncle-so he is related to both of us. This
other guy's aunt is my uncle's sister-in-law so he is related as well....

The result is that over the centuries, all Ashkenazi Jews descend >from the
relatively small population >from which they came. And over fewer
centuries, all Russian/Polish/Lithuanian Jews are descended >from common
ancestors. All Western German Jews as well-I once read that all Jews
named Marum were descendents of Meir of Rothenburg-which my cousin denied
because *he would know if that was true*. Well if he was descended >from a
daughter of a niece of a nephew of Meir's daughter through many
generation, do you believe my cousin would know? I don't.

The same for Rashi. There are certain families which claim descent from
Rashi, and they have family trees to show how. All the rest of us can't
trace our ancestors to Rashi, but we are probably all descended >from him.
It has been too long a time for that not to be true.

Sally Bruckheimer
Harrison, NY