Date   

Odessa - LANDO, MARGULEW/MARGULIES, SHORE, PERNIATYN, #general

K. & L. Bertelsen <lulu@...>
 

In the last few months since my Mama's death I have been in limbo,
although I have been slowly sorting through hundreds of photographs and
other memorabilia. In the last few days I started to read all my Zeida's
letters to my Mother (his only child). My maternal GPs were Emilie bas
David Behr ARONIS b. Libau 1898 and Paul LANDO b. Odessa 1894. Zeida was
the son of Moishe Israel LANDO and Chana/Anna-Maria bat Perets KOFMAN or
KAUFMAN. My Mother was born in Odessa in 1921.

My maternal GPs were divorced in Montreal in 1936 and after Mama Nana and
Mama came to Australia in early 1938, Mama only saw her Father once in
thirty years when he spent two weeks with us in early 1951. He probably
spent more time on the boat than actually here with us in
Melbourne. Anyway, when his second wife died in 1968 he finally decided
to join us in Australia. He died 15 months later, so we never really got
to know our Zeida very well as he was already terminally ill when he
arrived in Melbourne.

Over the years Zeida and Mama kept up an active correspondence (Zeida
wrote weekly and sometimes twice or three times a week) and I have nearly
all his letters (several hundred airletters) to Mama >from the late 1950s
until his arrival here in 1969. There is not a lot of information in
these letters, but obviously he was terribly lonely and isolated in
Montreal. Most of his nearest relatives (apart >from two sisters and their
families and his brother's family) perished in Odessa and he never saw
them every again; and his only child, Mama, was so far away in Australia.
He was so excited when Mama was finally able to afford to ring him for the
first time in 1963.

Anyway, I have still many many letters to read, but today I found the most
wonderful information. I am not sure if Mama asked, perhaps I did, but
Zaida listed all the names of his maternal and paternal relatives that he
could remember, including surnames. He said that everyone was dead - his
Mother, brother and one sister and who knows who else definitely perished
in Odessa.

Apart >from the first/given names of his parents (which I knew) and uncles
and aunts, he mentioned the following surnames (some of which I had never
heard of before) - VITES, GDANSKY, MARGULEW (or MARGULIES or MORGULIES?),
SHORE, PERNIATYN, KAUFMAN (or KOFMAN), NEMEROVSKY.

I knew about KAUFMAN or KOFMAN, and MORGULIES (>from a brief mention in one
of my murdered GGM's letters to Mama in the 1930s) but all the other
surnames were previously unknown to me.

>from Zeida's letter I now know that his Father may have had three sisters
(I only knew about twin siblings, male and female). Apparently his Mother
had two sisters and seven brothers (only one previously known about) and
several cousins, previously unknown.

I haven't yet had a chance to include these names on my JGFF listing, and
will do so once the fire situation is over and we get some rain.
Although I do know who is who, I do not know which surnames all the
relatives had.
But I was so excited to read these names and I just wanted to see if there
is anybody out there with similar name links >from Odessa.

Please get in touch with me if you think your family >from Odessa might be
somehow linked to my Zeida's LANDO, KOFMAN/KAUFMAN, VITES, GDANSKY,
MARGULEW (or MARGULIES or MORGULIES?), SHORE, PERNIATYN, NEMEROVSKY families.

Please contact me at - layakbtl at benalla dot net dot au - not the
above mangled address. Thanks.

Regards >from Boho, Downunder
Lorraine Bertelsen

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.
In order to reply to Lorraine, note the anti-spam instructions that
Lorraine gives in her message.


Re: ARDITTI - Meaning Of Sephardic Names #general

edward konig <konige@...>
 

I second Malka's comment. I didn't have the self-confidence to point this
out, and so contradicting the encyclopedia. Malka's comment confirms my
conviction that the encyclopedia is totally wrong.

"Arditti" is Italian, and almost Classical (500 year old) Italian for
"daring, (really, "rash").

With all due respect to the encyclopedia, it almost certainly has nothing at
all to do with any caves in Jordan. What would Jews be doing in or with
caves in Jordan anyway? No chance. The above translation is the correct one.

Ed K

"Jeff Malka" <malkajef@orthohelp.com> wrote in message

Arditti (meaning ardent) is an old Catalan Sephardic surname. The Ardit
were a family of Jewish Catalan physicians durint the 10th to 15th
centuries (mentioned in Luis Marco i Dachs "Judeus als pasos catalans,
segles X-XV", Buenos-Aires 1996). They are present in Salonica as members
of the "Catalan Lashan" synagogue (see Michael Molho "Les Juifs de
Salonica a la fin due XVIe siecle, Synagogues et Patronymes", Paris,
1991)and also in Livorno (See Lionel Levy: "La Nation Juive Portugaise,
Livourne, Amsterdam, Tunis, 1591-1951" L'harmattan, 1999)
From: SteinHE@aol.com

The Sephardic surname ARDITTI (and its variant, ARDITI) refers to
caves in Jordan. This information comes >from the data bases located
at Sephardim.com < http://www.sephardim.com >

Harry Stein


Thank you fellow JewishGeners! #general

Angela Harwood-Strohschein <motherandchild@...>
 

Just a hearty *thanks* to everyone who responded to my "Searching
POLLACK(POLOCK)/HALPERN>Russia>NYC>PA" post yesterday. I have already
received many extremely helpful tips, and feel as though I have a new
"starting point" with my research.

Angela Harwood-Strohschein
motherandchild@voyager.net


FERMANN/FURMAN Search #general

ms nodrog
 

I am trying to locate family memebrs of the FERMAN/FURMAN family who
later changed their name to FELDMAN. The members I know of are Fivich,
Pessie (Bessie)Schmeya (Sam) and possibly Chaim (Harry). They lived in
Torchin, Volhynia Gubernia before coming to America and may have been
born in Rozich, Poland. After coming to America they lived in Brooklyn
and Baltimore.

Two FURMANN siblings married two BAITCH (Bajcz)siblings. If you have
any information please e-mail me at msnodrog@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance,
Hope Gordon
msnodrog@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Odessa - LANDO, MARGULEW/MARGULIES, SHORE, PERNIATYN, #general

K. & L. Bertelsen <lulu@...>
 

In the last few months since my Mama's death I have been in limbo,
although I have been slowly sorting through hundreds of photographs and
other memorabilia. In the last few days I started to read all my Zeida's
letters to my Mother (his only child). My maternal GPs were Emilie bas
David Behr ARONIS b. Libau 1898 and Paul LANDO b. Odessa 1894. Zeida was
the son of Moishe Israel LANDO and Chana/Anna-Maria bat Perets KOFMAN or
KAUFMAN. My Mother was born in Odessa in 1921.

My maternal GPs were divorced in Montreal in 1936 and after Mama Nana and
Mama came to Australia in early 1938, Mama only saw her Father once in
thirty years when he spent two weeks with us in early 1951. He probably
spent more time on the boat than actually here with us in
Melbourne. Anyway, when his second wife died in 1968 he finally decided
to join us in Australia. He died 15 months later, so we never really got
to know our Zeida very well as he was already terminally ill when he
arrived in Melbourne.

Over the years Zeida and Mama kept up an active correspondence (Zeida
wrote weekly and sometimes twice or three times a week) and I have nearly
all his letters (several hundred airletters) to Mama >from the late 1950s
until his arrival here in 1969. There is not a lot of information in
these letters, but obviously he was terribly lonely and isolated in
Montreal. Most of his nearest relatives (apart >from two sisters and their
families and his brother's family) perished in Odessa and he never saw
them every again; and his only child, Mama, was so far away in Australia.
He was so excited when Mama was finally able to afford to ring him for the
first time in 1963.

Anyway, I have still many many letters to read, but today I found the most
wonderful information. I am not sure if Mama asked, perhaps I did, but
Zaida listed all the names of his maternal and paternal relatives that he
could remember, including surnames. He said that everyone was dead - his
Mother, brother and one sister and who knows who else definitely perished
in Odessa.

Apart >from the first/given names of his parents (which I knew) and uncles
and aunts, he mentioned the following surnames (some of which I had never
heard of before) - VITES, GDANSKY, MARGULEW (or MARGULIES or MORGULIES?),
SHORE, PERNIATYN, KAUFMAN (or KOFMAN), NEMEROVSKY.

I knew about KAUFMAN or KOFMAN, and MORGULIES (>from a brief mention in one
of my murdered GGM's letters to Mama in the 1930s) but all the other
surnames were previously unknown to me.

>from Zeida's letter I now know that his Father may have had three sisters
(I only knew about twin siblings, male and female). Apparently his Mother
had two sisters and seven brothers (only one previously known about) and
several cousins, previously unknown.

I haven't yet had a chance to include these names on my JGFF listing, and
will do so once the fire situation is over and we get some rain.
Although I do know who is who, I do not know which surnames all the
relatives had.
But I was so excited to read these names and I just wanted to see if there
is anybody out there with similar name links >from Odessa.

Please get in touch with me if you think your family >from Odessa might be
somehow linked to my Zeida's LANDO, KOFMAN/KAUFMAN, VITES, GDANSKY,
MARGULEW (or MARGULIES or MORGULIES?), SHORE, PERNIATYN, NEMEROVSKY families.

Please contact me at - layakbtl at benalla dot net dot au - not the
above mangled address. Thanks.

Regards >from Boho, Downunder
Lorraine Bertelsen

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.
In order to reply to Lorraine, note the anti-spam instructions that
Lorraine gives in her message.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ARDITTI - Meaning Of Sephardic Names #general

edward konig <konige@...>
 

I second Malka's comment. I didn't have the self-confidence to point this
out, and so contradicting the encyclopedia. Malka's comment confirms my
conviction that the encyclopedia is totally wrong.

"Arditti" is Italian, and almost Classical (500 year old) Italian for
"daring, (really, "rash").

With all due respect to the encyclopedia, it almost certainly has nothing at
all to do with any caves in Jordan. What would Jews be doing in or with
caves in Jordan anyway? No chance. The above translation is the correct one.

Ed K

"Jeff Malka" <malkajef@orthohelp.com> wrote in message

Arditti (meaning ardent) is an old Catalan Sephardic surname. The Ardit
were a family of Jewish Catalan physicians durint the 10th to 15th
centuries (mentioned in Luis Marco i Dachs "Judeus als pasos catalans,
segles X-XV", Buenos-Aires 1996). They are present in Salonica as members
of the "Catalan Lashan" synagogue (see Michael Molho "Les Juifs de
Salonica a la fin due XVIe siecle, Synagogues et Patronymes", Paris,
1991)and also in Livorno (See Lionel Levy: "La Nation Juive Portugaise,
Livourne, Amsterdam, Tunis, 1591-1951" L'harmattan, 1999)
From: SteinHE@aol.com

The Sephardic surname ARDITTI (and its variant, ARDITI) refers to
caves in Jordan. This information comes >from the data bases located
at Sephardim.com < http://www.sephardim.com >

Harry Stein


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Thank you fellow JewishGeners! #general

Angela Harwood-Strohschein <motherandchild@...>
 

Just a hearty *thanks* to everyone who responded to my "Searching
POLLACK(POLOCK)/HALPERN>Russia>NYC>PA" post yesterday. I have already
received many extremely helpful tips, and feel as though I have a new
"starting point" with my research.

Angela Harwood-Strohschein
motherandchild@voyager.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FERMANN/FURMAN Search #general

ms nodrog
 

I am trying to locate family memebrs of the FERMAN/FURMAN family who
later changed their name to FELDMAN. The members I know of are Fivich,
Pessie (Bessie)Schmeya (Sam) and possibly Chaim (Harry). They lived in
Torchin, Volhynia Gubernia before coming to America and may have been
born in Rozich, Poland. After coming to America they lived in Brooklyn
and Baltimore.

Two FURMANN siblings married two BAITCH (Bajcz)siblings. If you have
any information please e-mail me at msnodrog@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance,
Hope Gordon
msnodrog@yahoo.com


Victory for genetics over Tay-Sachs - genealogy can be a lifesaver #general

Jerome Seligsohn <jselig1315@...>
 

In today's Science section of the New York Times
[catch it on the Drudge Report] a great victory for
genetics over Tay-Sachs was announced. Because of my
narrow point of view I see it as a victory for
genealogy. A tracking system of carriers which was the
heart of the campaign I prefer to think as a
genealogical victory.
Again the issues of privacy and publicity came up in
the article. Some disease organization leaders sees
the publicity as bad for the image of Jews citing the
occurrence of the disease in other ethnic groups. A
long time ago I retreated >from my advocacy of privacy
over this issue.
Other Ashkenazic genetic illnesses are discussed in
this article.We must realize the importance of
practicing genealogy as an act for the public good.

Jerry Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev/Dnepr

MODERATOR NOTE: Responses related to genealogical aspects of this
subject will be considered for posting, while responses focused on
genetic diseases or genetic testing should be sent privately.


Pisha Paysha Revisited #general

Carole Glick Feinberg <feincgs@...>
 

Dear Genners,

Wow! Did I hit the jackpot with my "pisha paysha" query.
So many of you wonderful people sent me responses and
corrected my faulty memory. "Pisha paysha" is, indeed, a
card game, not the name of the string game that many of
you referred to as "Cat's Cradle."

Thanks to a few Genners, I now recall the name of the
string game my grandmother taught us--"ettel bettel".
Sorry for the confusion. Many of you said Cat's Cradle,
or, "ettel bettel", was known universally, not only in
Galicia. Among the regions cited were Belgium, Hungary,
Ukraine (Odessa), Belarus (Minsk), Africa, USA, and
Israel.

One of my favorite responses was >from an Israeli friend
who said "ettel bettel" is known as Savta Soreget
(knitting grandmother), and he taught the game to his
child last week. Most of the responders said they learned
the game >from their grandparents.

Some of you said the instructions were in print. One or
two of you sent me to a web site for "ettel bettel":

http://personal.riverusers.com/~busybee/main.htm

A few of you used the word, "fun", which can, I think, be
used, also, to describe what we are all about-- connecting
to our past.

One Genner made me laugh by saying she didn't know what
"paysha" meant. Another, told me his grandparents were
introduced to each other by someone who turned out to be a
distant relative of mine.

I learned that using a piece of string or playing cards
helps link the generations and us, one to another.

Carole Glick Feinberg
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
feincgs@cs.com

Searching: LERNER, BERNSTEIN, LANTNER, HAMERMAN,
GARTENBERG, SCHNEIDSCHER, KREUTZENAUER, KOCH,
WEBER/Drohobycz;
HILLEBRAND, SCHECK/Boryslaw;
SOMERFLEK, MALKISCHER, KATZ/Romanowe Siolo, Kujdance,
Zbaraz, Tarnopol;
GLEKEL/Volochisk, Belozerka, Kupil


finding Russian army documents #general

lili susser <susserl@...>
 

Hi All
I have my grandparents marriage document stating that at the time of
marriage in the year 1883 in Plock, my g-father was an "army officer".
The document is in Russian therefore I assume it must have been the
Russian army. What are my chances of finding a document of his service,
where do I turn and did anyone have the experience of obtaining such
document. In other words what can I expect to pay for it?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you for any replies

Lili Susser
Susserl@attbi.com


Tay-Sachs #general

David Sencer <djud2@...>
 

There is an excellent article on Tay-Sachs in today's New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/science/18DISE.html


David J. Sencer,
Atlanta, GA
"mailto:djud@mindspring.com"

MODERATOR NOTE: Responses related to genealogical aspects of this
subject will be considered for posting, while responses focused on
genetic diseases or genetic testing should be sent privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Victory for genetics over Tay-Sachs - genealogy can be a lifesaver #general

Jerome Seligsohn <jselig1315@...>
 

In today's Science section of the New York Times
[catch it on the Drudge Report] a great victory for
genetics over Tay-Sachs was announced. Because of my
narrow point of view I see it as a victory for
genealogy. A tracking system of carriers which was the
heart of the campaign I prefer to think as a
genealogical victory.
Again the issues of privacy and publicity came up in
the article. Some disease organization leaders sees
the publicity as bad for the image of Jews citing the
occurrence of the disease in other ethnic groups. A
long time ago I retreated >from my advocacy of privacy
over this issue.
Other Ashkenazic genetic illnesses are discussed in
this article.We must realize the importance of
practicing genealogy as an act for the public good.

Jerry Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev/Dnepr

MODERATOR NOTE: Responses related to genealogical aspects of this
subject will be considered for posting, while responses focused on
genetic diseases or genetic testing should be sent privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Pisha Paysha Revisited #general

Carole Glick Feinberg <feincgs@...>
 

Dear Genners,

Wow! Did I hit the jackpot with my "pisha paysha" query.
So many of you wonderful people sent me responses and
corrected my faulty memory. "Pisha paysha" is, indeed, a
card game, not the name of the string game that many of
you referred to as "Cat's Cradle."

Thanks to a few Genners, I now recall the name of the
string game my grandmother taught us--"ettel bettel".
Sorry for the confusion. Many of you said Cat's Cradle,
or, "ettel bettel", was known universally, not only in
Galicia. Among the regions cited were Belgium, Hungary,
Ukraine (Odessa), Belarus (Minsk), Africa, USA, and
Israel.

One of my favorite responses was >from an Israeli friend
who said "ettel bettel" is known as Savta Soreget
(knitting grandmother), and he taught the game to his
child last week. Most of the responders said they learned
the game >from their grandparents.

Some of you said the instructions were in print. One or
two of you sent me to a web site for "ettel bettel":

http://personal.riverusers.com/~busybee/main.htm

A few of you used the word, "fun", which can, I think, be
used, also, to describe what we are all about-- connecting
to our past.

One Genner made me laugh by saying she didn't know what
"paysha" meant. Another, told me his grandparents were
introduced to each other by someone who turned out to be a
distant relative of mine.

I learned that using a piece of string or playing cards
helps link the generations and us, one to another.

Carole Glick Feinberg
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
feincgs@cs.com

Searching: LERNER, BERNSTEIN, LANTNER, HAMERMAN,
GARTENBERG, SCHNEIDSCHER, KREUTZENAUER, KOCH,
WEBER/Drohobycz;
HILLEBRAND, SCHECK/Boryslaw;
SOMERFLEK, MALKISCHER, KATZ/Romanowe Siolo, Kujdance,
Zbaraz, Tarnopol;
GLEKEL/Volochisk, Belozerka, Kupil


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen finding Russian army documents #general

lili susser <susserl@...>
 

Hi All
I have my grandparents marriage document stating that at the time of
marriage in the year 1883 in Plock, my g-father was an "army officer".
The document is in Russian therefore I assume it must have been the
Russian army. What are my chances of finding a document of his service,
where do I turn and did anyone have the experience of obtaining such
document. In other words what can I expect to pay for it?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you for any replies

Lili Susser
Susserl@attbi.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Tay-Sachs #general

David Sencer <djud2@...>
 

There is an excellent article on Tay-Sachs in today's New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/science/18DISE.html


David J. Sencer,
Atlanta, GA
"mailto:djud@mindspring.com"

MODERATOR NOTE: Responses related to genealogical aspects of this
subject will be considered for posting, while responses focused on
genetic diseases or genetic testing should be sent privately.


Pisha Paysha #general

Howard Greer <h.greer@...>
 

Hi,
For me, Pisha Paysha is a card game taught to me by my Russian born
grandfather when I was a child. The beauty of the game is that the
winner is determined by chance, no skill involved. Thus, a child can
win against an adult. It is easy for a child to learn once they know
the cards. It is played like "war" except that there are no wars. The
idea is to get rid of your cards by making runs on your opponent's pile.

Cat's cradle is a string figure game played with one or more people. It
has been known for centuries. It is popular among Native Americans and
other cultures. Search the internet for "string figures". Have fun.
H S Greer


Re: Pisha Paysha Hand Game Remembered #galicia

Arlene <aparnes@...>
 

I remember my grandmother playing Pisha Pasha -- a card game...Cat's Cradle
wa a game with string and is still very much around today for the kids to
play....
Arlene
Arlene Parnes, Orlando
aparnes@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Bruckheimer"
It is Cat's Cradle, Yiddish style. I never knew it as
a 'Jewish' game, but it is a common enough game in the
US and, I think, most of the world.

I've seen it played in Africa on National Geographic.

Sally Bruckheimer
Harrison, NY


Re: PISHA PAISHA and other Spellings #general

Robert & Ena Jacobs <enabob@...>
 

Hello Genners:
With regard to the card game Pisha/Pishi Paisha/Paysha and other spellings.
It may be of interest to know that this game is mentioned in the book:
'A Double Thread' - 'Growing Up English & Jewish in London' -
by John Gross - ISBN 1-56663-424-5 Ivan R Dee Publisher - Chicago
Published in Britain by Chatto & Windus. (Page 8 - Chapter 1)

This was a popular card game played by many immigrants to the East End
of London - very popular during World War 2 -now a vanished culture.
I highly recommend this book, a fascinating memoir of growing up by a
child of a family >from Eastern Europe - his father was a Jewish doctor.

Ena JACOBS nee SCHWALBE/SELBY
Born in London - now in California
EnaBob@worldnet.att.net


Re: Pisha Paysha #general

Lalita Claff <lalita@...>
 

We too played pisha paysha as kids (Manchester, England -
Lithuanian/Russian roots). I also knew it as Peace and Patience - aka
solitaire - the solo card game. Had a feeling though that Pisha Paysha
was somehow different but never worked it out.

The string game we knew as Cats Cradle

Leora Claff