Date   

Re: Local Pronunciation of Yiddish Name #general

Alan <aNOhsSPAMsha@...>
 

In article
<5.2.1.1.0.20040306130747.00aeeef8@...>,
sorlen@... (Steve Orlen) wrote:

On my great-grandfather's grave-stone his father's Hebrew name is given as
"Joseph-Arye." His descendants have always pronounced his Yiddish name as
"Yushe-Leib." However, as a Yiddish version of "Joseph," it would more
rightly be pronounced "Yoshe-Leib."

These people lived in Slonim in Grodno, a city now in western Belarus. I
wonder if local Yiddish pronunciation accounts for this oddity. (In fact, I
posted a question about his name several years ago, before I saw the Hebrew
on the gravestone, and got a rush of different answers as to the Yiddish
first name!)

Best, Steve Orlen
Tucson, Arizona
I'm not a linguist, but there are studies of how people >from different
regions pronounced Yiddish differently. One source is A Linguistic Atlas
of Eastern European Yiddish, by Jean Jofen (1964). It lists a number of
words where a vowel is pronounced "o" in more northerly communities and
"u" further to the south, e.g., bokher/bukher, koved/kuved. Slonim would
be on the "o" side of this line. Perhaps Yoshe/Yushe doesn't fit this
pattern for other reasons, or Slonim was an exception.

--
Alan Shuchat, Newton, Mass.
aNOshuSPAMchat@... (remove NO SPAM)

SHUCHAT (Talnoye, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Odessa, Balta (Abazovka),
Tavrig, Pogrebishche)
VINOKUR (Talnoye), KURIS (Mogilev-Podolskiy, Ataki, Berdichev)
SILVERMAN (Soroki, Kremenets), BIRNBAUM (Kamenets-Podolskiy)
KITAIGORODSKI (Zvenigorodka)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Local Pronunciation of Yiddish Name #general

Alan <aNOhsSPAMsha@...>
 

In article
<5.2.1.1.0.20040306130747.00aeeef8@...>,
sorlen@... (Steve Orlen) wrote:

On my great-grandfather's grave-stone his father's Hebrew name is given as
"Joseph-Arye." His descendants have always pronounced his Yiddish name as
"Yushe-Leib." However, as a Yiddish version of "Joseph," it would more
rightly be pronounced "Yoshe-Leib."

These people lived in Slonim in Grodno, a city now in western Belarus. I
wonder if local Yiddish pronunciation accounts for this oddity. (In fact, I
posted a question about his name several years ago, before I saw the Hebrew
on the gravestone, and got a rush of different answers as to the Yiddish
first name!)

Best, Steve Orlen
Tucson, Arizona
I'm not a linguist, but there are studies of how people >from different
regions pronounced Yiddish differently. One source is A Linguistic Atlas
of Eastern European Yiddish, by Jean Jofen (1964). It lists a number of
words where a vowel is pronounced "o" in more northerly communities and
"u" further to the south, e.g., bokher/bukher, koved/kuved. Slonim would
be on the "o" side of this line. Perhaps Yoshe/Yushe doesn't fit this
pattern for other reasons, or Slonim was an exception.

--
Alan Shuchat, Newton, Mass.
aNOshuSPAMchat@... (remove NO SPAM)

SHUCHAT (Talnoye, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Odessa, Balta (Abazovka),
Tavrig, Pogrebishche)
VINOKUR (Talnoye), KURIS (Mogilev-Podolskiy, Ataki, Berdichev)
SILVERMAN (Soroki, Kremenets), BIRNBAUM (Kamenets-Podolskiy)
KITAIGORODSKI (Zvenigorodka)


Re: Russian "*Gerim*" #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:34:15 UTC, urban1@... (John & Michelle Urban)
opined:

We received a query >from a lady of 91 and was wondering whether you can
help.
She had been told that : In the late 1800s a large group of Russians
converted en-masse to Judaism and were known as 'Gerim'.
They went to Palestine and then in the early 1900s many of them migrated to
Perth, Western Australia.

Is this correct?
If so, does anyone have any information at all.

Thank you.

Michelle & John Urban
Perth, Western Australia
jhgs@...
My only contribution would be to correct a possible misunderstanding.
"Gerim" is not a name for a specific group, as your wording seems to imply,
but simply means "converts". Any convert is a "ger", and the term cannot be
used as a keyword to identify any particular individual or group.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Re: matseva (headstone)wording #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:17:26 UTC, laguna@... opined:

Greetings, Genners,

At age 65, I'm in process of considering how to deal with my matseva.

As a person who was adopted, I want to have both my names on my matseva.
And, as I have not traced my birthfather and have no relationship with
that family, I wish, in the Hebrew text, to refer to my birthmother (bat
---). Would that be considered "appropriate"? What might the wording be
to indicate both my birth name and my adopted name? Also, on the
maternal side in my birthfamily, both my grandparents were descended
from Kohanim. However, as a female of the line, how might that be noted?
Stephanie Weiner
San Diego, CA
Firstly, I wish you a longer life than you appear to anticipate; until 120
(or until 119, so that your obituary will say that you died prematurely).
But at age 76, I know how you feel.

Your wish is to connect yourself to your adoptive family is honorable and
dignified, even beautiful, but this may not be the best forum in which to
seek an appropriate answer. It's a complicated matter, because your name and
patronymic (or matronymic) is meant to identify you, and you probably want
to do this in a way which will not mislead, while expressing your feelings.
Although I have an opinion, I won't give it, because the matter is too
technical for a layman like me. You really ought to ask rabbinical advice,
of your own rabbi if you have one, or one close to hand.

The matter of descent >from kohanim is easier, as it goes patrilinearly. Your
mother, the daughter of kohanim, inherited nothing of it; therefor certainly
you didn't either.

N.B.: "Matseva" is "monument" in Hebrew.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Russian "*Gerim*" #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 04:34:15 UTC, urban1@... (John & Michelle Urban)
opined:

We received a query >from a lady of 91 and was wondering whether you can
help.
She had been told that : In the late 1800s a large group of Russians
converted en-masse to Judaism and were known as 'Gerim'.
They went to Palestine and then in the early 1900s many of them migrated to
Perth, Western Australia.

Is this correct?
If so, does anyone have any information at all.

Thank you.

Michelle & John Urban
Perth, Western Australia
jhgs@...
My only contribution would be to correct a possible misunderstanding.
"Gerim" is not a name for a specific group, as your wording seems to imply,
but simply means "converts". Any convert is a "ger", and the term cannot be
used as a keyword to identify any particular individual or group.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: matseva (headstone)wording #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 05:17:26 UTC, laguna@... opined:

Greetings, Genners,

At age 65, I'm in process of considering how to deal with my matseva.

As a person who was adopted, I want to have both my names on my matseva.
And, as I have not traced my birthfather and have no relationship with
that family, I wish, in the Hebrew text, to refer to my birthmother (bat
---). Would that be considered "appropriate"? What might the wording be
to indicate both my birth name and my adopted name? Also, on the
maternal side in my birthfamily, both my grandparents were descended
from Kohanim. However, as a female of the line, how might that be noted?
Stephanie Weiner
San Diego, CA
Firstly, I wish you a longer life than you appear to anticipate; until 120
(or until 119, so that your obituary will say that you died prematurely).
But at age 76, I know how you feel.

Your wish is to connect yourself to your adoptive family is honorable and
dignified, even beautiful, but this may not be the best forum in which to
seek an appropriate answer. It's a complicated matter, because your name and
patronymic (or matronymic) is meant to identify you, and you probably want
to do this in a way which will not mislead, while expressing your feelings.
Although I have an opinion, I won't give it, because the matter is too
technical for a layman like me. You really ought to ask rabbinical advice,
of your own rabbi if you have one, or one close to hand.

The matter of descent >from kohanim is easier, as it goes patrilinearly. Your
mother, the daughter of kohanim, inherited nothing of it; therefor certainly
you didn't either.

N.B.: "Matseva" is "monument" in Hebrew.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Census for Utena between 1867-1884? #general

Betty Gardiner <bettyg@...>
 

Is a census available for the years 1867
to 1884 for the Vilnius area, specifically
a shtetl called Utena?

Betty Gardiner.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Census for Utena between 1867-1884? #general

Betty Gardiner <bettyg@...>
 

Is a census available for the years 1867
to 1884 for the Vilnius area, specifically
a shtetl called Utena?

Betty Gardiner.


Altpreussische Geschlechterkunde #germany

hanna <hannakg@...>
 

In the latest editin of Stammbaum Edward Brandt describes the journal
Altpreussiche Geschlechterkunde, indicating a number of issues hereof
which seem to be useful to genealogists concerned with E and W Prussia
in the 18 and early 19 C. The article closes with an editor's note
saying the journal is available in New York Public Research Library.

I checked the on-line catalog for same CATNYP and found only a few
recent issues--not the ones discussed in the article. As far as I could
make out LBI does not have the journal at all, although I admit their on
line catalog is very hard to understand.

Has anyone found more? am I wrong about LBI?

Hanna Grossman
Cornwall, CT


German SIG #Germany Altpreussische Geschlechterkunde #germany

hanna <hannakg@...>
 

In the latest editin of Stammbaum Edward Brandt describes the journal
Altpreussiche Geschlechterkunde, indicating a number of issues hereof
which seem to be useful to genealogists concerned with E and W Prussia
in the 18 and early 19 C. The article closes with an editor's note
saying the journal is available in New York Public Research Library.

I checked the on-line catalog for same CATNYP and found only a few
recent issues--not the ones discussed in the article. As far as I could
make out LBI does not have the journal at all, although I admit their on
line catalog is very hard to understand.

Has anyone found more? am I wrong about LBI?

Hanna Grossman
Cornwall, CT


Re: Jane Fish - Delhi Street Cemetery #unitedkingdom

BP Bergman <bergville@...>
 

Delhi Street Cemetery: "Recently the Hull Daily Mail had a list of
persons to be re-located within the Jewish Burial Ground at Delhi Street
Cemetery, Hull. Hedon road is to be widened. Burials were between 1834
and 1937. >

Bill and all,

Don't panic about this one - it is a very old posting and the crisis is long
since past. There is now no intention to re-locate any burials at Delhi
Street. I quote >from an e-mail of 2002 >from a relative who lived in Hull:
< At the time of the proposals the community was of course involved in a
consultation process and there was much later an indication in the Watchman
[the Hull community's newsletter] that there was no further need of
disturbance because a solution had been found.>

The only problem now is one of vandalism, and there was substantial damage
there not too long ago. The local community are trying hard to protect the
site but as ever, funding is a problem and they are grateful for any
assistance which can be offered.

Beverly Bergman


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Jane Fish - Delhi Street Cemetery #unitedkingdom

BP Bergman <bergville@...>
 

Delhi Street Cemetery: "Recently the Hull Daily Mail had a list of
persons to be re-located within the Jewish Burial Ground at Delhi Street
Cemetery, Hull. Hedon road is to be widened. Burials were between 1834
and 1937. >

Bill and all,

Don't panic about this one - it is a very old posting and the crisis is long
since past. There is now no intention to re-locate any burials at Delhi
Street. I quote >from an e-mail of 2002 >from a relative who lived in Hull:
< At the time of the proposals the community was of course involved in a
consultation process and there was much later an indication in the Watchman
[the Hull community's newsletter] that there was no further need of
disturbance because a solution had been found.>

The only problem now is one of vandalism, and there was substantial damage
there not too long ago. The local community are trying hard to protect the
site but as ever, funding is a problem and they are grateful for any
assistance which can be offered.

Beverly Bergman


Kremenets Yizkor Book Update on-line #poland

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I am pleased to report that another installment of the Kremenets
(Ukraine) Yizkor Book translation has been posted on the JewishGen
Yizkor Book Translation Project website
(http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/kremenets/kremenets.html). This
translation is for "Pinkas Kremenets", edited by A.S. Stein, published
in 1854 by the Organization of Kremenets Emigrants. The new translation
covers the following sections:

* Legends and place names on the contour and street maps of
Kremenets and surrounding area;
* Within the Book (Introduction), pp. 7 - 8;
* Translation of the document, ">from the Kremenets Castle books of
16 April 1753", pp. 42 -43;
* Addendum 3: The Magid >from Kremenets, R' Yakov Yisrael, son of
Tsvi ha'Levi, pp. 43 - 45;
* Addendum 4: The troubles of the unregistered in Kremenets, p. 45;
* Chapters in the History of Kremenets Jewry, pp. 46 - 65;
* Zionism, Pioneering & Emigration, pp. 112 - 126, 130.

We also have added scanned photographs appearing within these pages:

* "Zion Youth" group members 1912, p. 47
* The Youth Committee for Helping the Refugees, 1916, p. 54
* Zionist documents, p. 113
* Zionist Activists, 1929, p. 115
* Movie Day for Keren Kayemet l' Yisrael, 1929, p. 115
* Petition of the League for a Working Israel against closing
immigration, p. 116
* The Zionist Library, p. 116
* The "HaKhaluts" Hakhshara (training group) Branch, p. 119
* HaKhaluts HaTsair, Kremenets, 1925

In addition, we have updated the Table of Contents, Table of Figures,
Schedule of Additions, Translation Acknowledgements, Endnotes,
Bibliography, and Name Index. The Name Index now includes 951 names
extracted >from the Yizkor Book.

Our volunteers now have completed translation of 211 of 271 Hebrew pages
from this Yizkor Book. The other 60 Hebrew pages are in the translation
process. However, only 10 out of 179 Yiddish pages >from this book have
been translated. We desperately need volunteers who can translate
Yiddish. If you can help, please contact me at rondoctor@....

Your tax-deductible donations also would be much appreciated. Go to ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

and scroll down to the Kremenets donation listing.

And, for more information about activities of the Kremenets Yizkor Book
Translation Project and the Kremenets Shtetl CO-OP/Jewish Records
Indexing - Poland, go to the Kremenets ShtetLinks website
(http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets/).

Ron Doctor
Co-Coordinator, Kremenets Yizkor Book Translation Project


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Although Kremenets is today in Ukraine,
it was part of Inter-War Poland, and is thus within the
scope of the JRI-Poland list.


JRI Poland #Poland Kremenets Yizkor Book Update on-line #poland

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I am pleased to report that another installment of the Kremenets
(Ukraine) Yizkor Book translation has been posted on the JewishGen
Yizkor Book Translation Project website
(http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/kremenets/kremenets.html). This
translation is for "Pinkas Kremenets", edited by A.S. Stein, published
in 1854 by the Organization of Kremenets Emigrants. The new translation
covers the following sections:

* Legends and place names on the contour and street maps of
Kremenets and surrounding area;
* Within the Book (Introduction), pp. 7 - 8;
* Translation of the document, ">from the Kremenets Castle books of
16 April 1753", pp. 42 -43;
* Addendum 3: The Magid >from Kremenets, R' Yakov Yisrael, son of
Tsvi ha'Levi, pp. 43 - 45;
* Addendum 4: The troubles of the unregistered in Kremenets, p. 45;
* Chapters in the History of Kremenets Jewry, pp. 46 - 65;
* Zionism, Pioneering & Emigration, pp. 112 - 126, 130.

We also have added scanned photographs appearing within these pages:

* "Zion Youth" group members 1912, p. 47
* The Youth Committee for Helping the Refugees, 1916, p. 54
* Zionist documents, p. 113
* Zionist Activists, 1929, p. 115
* Movie Day for Keren Kayemet l' Yisrael, 1929, p. 115
* Petition of the League for a Working Israel against closing
immigration, p. 116
* The Zionist Library, p. 116
* The "HaKhaluts" Hakhshara (training group) Branch, p. 119
* HaKhaluts HaTsair, Kremenets, 1925

In addition, we have updated the Table of Contents, Table of Figures,
Schedule of Additions, Translation Acknowledgements, Endnotes,
Bibliography, and Name Index. The Name Index now includes 951 names
extracted >from the Yizkor Book.

Our volunteers now have completed translation of 211 of 271 Hebrew pages
from this Yizkor Book. The other 60 Hebrew pages are in the translation
process. However, only 10 out of 179 Yiddish pages >from this book have
been translated. We desperately need volunteers who can translate
Yiddish. If you can help, please contact me at rondoctor@....

Your tax-deductible donations also would be much appreciated. Go to ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

and scroll down to the Kremenets donation listing.

And, for more information about activities of the Kremenets Yizkor Book
Translation Project and the Kremenets Shtetl CO-OP/Jewish Records
Indexing - Poland, go to the Kremenets ShtetLinks website
(http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kremenets/).

Ron Doctor
Co-Coordinator, Kremenets Yizkor Book Translation Project


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Although Kremenets is today in Ukraine,
it was part of Inter-War Poland, and is thus within the
scope of the JRI-Poland list.


Radoshkovitsh, Krasne, Horodok, Vishnievo,Rakov, Volozhin #lithuania

EilatGordn@...
 

I received a note >from Moshe Porat, the head of the Volozhin society in
Israel; "...The organizing committee for the Shtetls Radoshkovitsh,
Krasne and Rakov plans the commemoration ceremony for the Jews of those
towns who were murdered by the Fascists during the Shoa. It will be held
in the Wizo locals, at David Hamelekh Ave., 30 in Tel Aviv on Sunday,
March 14, 2004 at 18:00.

Descendants >from the above towns and also >from Horodok, Vishnievo and
Volozhin are invited.

On the agenda:


Words of the towns' representatives
Prayers by Cantor
Lighting of candles

People intending to participate are asked to inform Mrs. Tsila Silburgh
in Israel by emailing me; eilatgordn@....


Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Radoshkovitsh, Krasne, Horodok, Vishnievo,Rakov, Volozhin #lithuania

EilatGordn@...
 

I received a note >from Moshe Porat, the head of the Volozhin society in
Israel; "...The organizing committee for the Shtetls Radoshkovitsh,
Krasne and Rakov plans the commemoration ceremony for the Jews of those
towns who were murdered by the Fascists during the Shoa. It will be held
in the Wizo locals, at David Hamelekh Ave., 30 in Tel Aviv on Sunday,
March 14, 2004 at 18:00.

Descendants >from the above towns and also >from Horodok, Vishnievo and
Volozhin are invited.

On the agenda:


Words of the towns' representatives
Prayers by Cantor
Lighting of candles

People intending to participate are asked to inform Mrs. Tsila Silburgh
in Israel by emailing me; eilatgordn@....


Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles


searching court records (NY) #general

Sara Lynns
 

Curious is it possible to search online to determine
if a family member filed court documents or vice
versa?
era: 1925-35 (New York)
If so, URLs?
If not, what is the best way to proceed?

thanks

searching LERNER, WENGER

Jackie Lerner-Aderman

saralynn7@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen searching court records (NY) #general

Sara Lynns
 

Curious is it possible to search online to determine
if a family member filed court documents or vice
versa?
era: 1925-35 (New York)
If so, URLs?
If not, what is the best way to proceed?

thanks

searching LERNER, WENGER

Jackie Lerner-Aderman

saralynn7@...


Radoshkovitsh, Krasne, Rakov, Volozhin and Vishnevo #belarus

EilatGordn@...
 

I received a note >from Moshe Porat, the head of the Volozhin society in Israel;
"...The organizing committee for the Shtetl's Radoshkovitsh, Krasne and Rakov plans the commemoration ceremony for the Jews of those towns who were murdered by the Fascists during the Shoa. It will be held in the Wizo locals, at David Hamelekh Ave., 30 in Tel Aviv on Sunday, March 14, 2004 at 18:00.

Descendants >from the above towns and also >from Horodok, Vishnievo and Volozhin are invited.

On the agenda:


Words of the towns' representatives
Prayers by Cantor
Lighting of candles

People intending to participate are asked to inform Mrs. Tsila Silburgh in Rishon Letzion; 03-9647532.
..."


Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles
www.eilatgordinlevitan.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Radoshkovitsh, Krasne, Rakov, Volozhin and Vishnevo #belarus

EilatGordn@...
 

I received a note >from Moshe Porat, the head of the Volozhin society in Israel;
"...The organizing committee for the Shtetl's Radoshkovitsh, Krasne and Rakov plans the commemoration ceremony for the Jews of those towns who were murdered by the Fascists during the Shoa. It will be held in the Wizo locals, at David Hamelekh Ave., 30 in Tel Aviv on Sunday, March 14, 2004 at 18:00.

Descendants >from the above towns and also >from Horodok, Vishnievo and Volozhin are invited.

On the agenda:


Words of the towns' representatives
Prayers by Cantor
Lighting of candles

People intending to participate are asked to inform Mrs. Tsila Silburgh in Rishon Letzion; 03-9647532.
..."


Eilat Gordin Levitan
Los Angeles
www.eilatgordinlevitan.com