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Re: Using UK census data and indexes (indicies) #general

s_wiener@...
 

Hi, Genners,

I would agree with Barry about throughly looking at a
record, especially since Jamaica, Queens, New York
could have been the place of birth for both the
individuals he found. These records need to be
cross-referenced with the US census and other records
from NYC to see if that is the Jamaica meant.
However, 1807 was way before mandatory birth
registration started so collaboration will not be easy
to establish.

from internet searches, I learned that Jamaica, Queens
(4th Ward) was organized in 1656 or 1683. Since
Queens was not consolidated into one county or borough
or part of the City of New York until the end of the
19th century, it would not have been unusual for
someone born in one of the Wards of Queens to refer to
their place of birth as Jamaica or Flushing or
Newtown.

Even today, residents cite their neighborhood - not
their borough - as their home town. For example one
would find as a return address on mail as Briarwood,
NY or Elmhurst, NY not like their fellow NYers from
The Bronx, NY or Brooklyn, NY.

Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA
researching:
GOLEMBE, MACNITSKY, ROSENFELD, ROSENTHAL – Lubashov and Lakhva, Belarus
STEIER, ZWEIG - Sanok, Dobromil and Tyrawa Woloska,Poland [Austria]
BERNER - Krzywcze, Poland[Austria] RUBINGER, HOCHSTADT, WALLACH, PACHT, FESSLER,
KLIPPER, GRILL, SCHNAPP - Putila, Wiznitz, and Vatra Dornai,Bukovina
GEIST - Kutno, Poland WINDWER/WINDWEHR, REGENSTREIF, TEICHER, BITTER,
BLECHER, HEFTEL, KRAUTBACH, LEBENTHAL, LUCHS - Kolomyya, Galicia [Austria]
or Northern Bukovina
--------
"Barry Spinner" <bspinner@cogeco.ca> wrote on Tue, 30
Mar 2004

<A genner asked for help with lookup assistance in the
English census of 1871 RG12 ...

Name: Benjamine Alberga
Age in 1871: 64
Estimated birth year: 1807
Relation: Head (of family)
Gender: Male
Where born: United States of America
Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiatical parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London

One would certainly think that he was born in the USA
from this index information. However inspection of the
census page showed that, though faintly written, his
birth-place was stated as "Jamaica".

On the next census page, as the first entry, was his
niece, living at the same address. Sure enough, the
enumerator had recorded "Jamaica" as birth-place.

The lesson is look at the record, even when you have
the unequivocal index information...>
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Using UK census data and indexes (indicies) #general

s_wiener@...
 

Hi, Genners,

I would agree with Barry about throughly looking at a
record, especially since Jamaica, Queens, New York
could have been the place of birth for both the
individuals he found. These records need to be
cross-referenced with the US census and other records
from NYC to see if that is the Jamaica meant.
However, 1807 was way before mandatory birth
registration started so collaboration will not be easy
to establish.

from internet searches, I learned that Jamaica, Queens
(4th Ward) was organized in 1656 or 1683. Since
Queens was not consolidated into one county or borough
or part of the City of New York until the end of the
19th century, it would not have been unusual for
someone born in one of the Wards of Queens to refer to
their place of birth as Jamaica or Flushing or
Newtown.

Even today, residents cite their neighborhood - not
their borough - as their home town. For example one
would find as a return address on mail as Briarwood,
NY or Elmhurst, NY not like their fellow NYers from
The Bronx, NY or Brooklyn, NY.

Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA
researching:
GOLEMBE, MACNITSKY, ROSENFELD, ROSENTHAL – Lubashov and Lakhva, Belarus
STEIER, ZWEIG - Sanok, Dobromil and Tyrawa Woloska,Poland [Austria]
BERNER - Krzywcze, Poland[Austria] RUBINGER, HOCHSTADT, WALLACH, PACHT, FESSLER,
KLIPPER, GRILL, SCHNAPP - Putila, Wiznitz, and Vatra Dornai,Bukovina
GEIST - Kutno, Poland WINDWER/WINDWEHR, REGENSTREIF, TEICHER, BITTER,
BLECHER, HEFTEL, KRAUTBACH, LEBENTHAL, LUCHS - Kolomyya, Galicia [Austria]
or Northern Bukovina
--------
"Barry Spinner" <bspinner@cogeco.ca> wrote on Tue, 30
Mar 2004

<A genner asked for help with lookup assistance in the
English census of 1871 RG12 ...

Name: Benjamine Alberga
Age in 1871: 64
Estimated birth year: 1807
Relation: Head (of family)
Gender: Male
Where born: United States of America
Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiatical parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London

One would certainly think that he was born in the USA
from this index information. However inspection of the
census page showed that, though faintly written, his
birth-place was stated as "Jamaica".

On the next census page, as the first entry, was his
niece, living at the same address. Sure enough, the
enumerator had recorded "Jamaica" as birth-place.

The lesson is look at the record, even when you have
the unequivocal index information...>
New Virus Warning! #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

Several H-SIG subscribers have contacted us regarding receipt of
messages with virus-infected attachments that appear to be generated by
the Hungarian SIG, H-SIG Lyris, or another JewishGen address. Some
members have also received messages advising that they have been
unsubscribed >from H-SIG or another JewishGen list with attachments.
These are BOGUS! Please remember and adhere to the following rules:

1. H-SIG and other JewishGen discussion lists NEVER send messages with
attachments. If you receive a message with an attachment that purports
to be >from H-SIG or another JewishGen list DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHMENT.
Delete the message and attachments immediately.

2. H-SIG did not generate the messages regarding "unsubscriptions".
These notices were created by a virus. They are being created because
someone who does subscribe to JewishGen or H-SIG has failed to protect
his/her system with an anti-virus program, has mail >from us stored in
his/her system, and is now infected by the virus. As a result, ALL of
us are at risk!

The way these viruses work is to mimic valid addresses. They attach
to a mail program, harvest addresses, and send messages that appear to
be >from e-mail addresses in that mail program to others addresses in
the infected address book.

What's the solution? You've heard it before but we obviously need to
repeat it once again. Use Norton or another anti-virus program to scan
your system on a regular basis. Failure to do so can jeopardize
hundreds of other H-SIG and JewishGEN subscribers so please don't wait!

If you don't update your virus programs on a regular basis you run the
risk of becoming infected by one of the new strains. There really
isn't much else we can do to protect our subscribers. PLEASE HELP US
ALL BY TAKING CARE OF YOUR OWN SYSTEM! Also, be very, very careful
about opening attachments. Even if the sender's name is familiar, the
attachment may be bogus. If you have any doubts, check with the
alleged sender before opening the message.

We will all appreciate and benefit >from your vigilance!

Vivian Kahn, H-SIG Moderator
Hungary SIG #Hungary New Virus Warning! #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

Several H-SIG subscribers have contacted us regarding receipt of
messages with virus-infected attachments that appear to be generated by
the Hungarian SIG, H-SIG Lyris, or another JewishGen address. Some
members have also received messages advising that they have been
unsubscribed >from H-SIG or another JewishGen list with attachments.
These are BOGUS! Please remember and adhere to the following rules:

1. H-SIG and other JewishGen discussion lists NEVER send messages with
attachments. If you receive a message with an attachment that purports
to be >from H-SIG or another JewishGen list DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHMENT.
Delete the message and attachments immediately.

2. H-SIG did not generate the messages regarding "unsubscriptions".
These notices were created by a virus. They are being created because
someone who does subscribe to JewishGen or H-SIG has failed to protect
his/her system with an anti-virus program, has mail >from us stored in
his/her system, and is now infected by the virus. As a result, ALL of
us are at risk!

The way these viruses work is to mimic valid addresses. They attach
to a mail program, harvest addresses, and send messages that appear to
be >from e-mail addresses in that mail program to others addresses in
the infected address book.

What's the solution? You've heard it before but we obviously need to
repeat it once again. Use Norton or another anti-virus program to scan
your system on a regular basis. Failure to do so can jeopardize
hundreds of other H-SIG and JewishGEN subscribers so please don't wait!

If you don't update your virus programs on a regular basis you run the
risk of becoming infected by one of the new strains. There really
isn't much else we can do to protect our subscribers. PLEASE HELP US
ALL BY TAKING CARE OF YOUR OWN SYSTEM! Also, be very, very careful
about opening attachments. Even if the sender's name is familiar, the
attachment may be bogus. If you have any doubts, check with the
alleged sender before opening the message.

We will all appreciate and benefit >from your vigilance!

Vivian Kahn, H-SIG Moderator
JEWS IN THE MILITARY #hungary

B Frederics <picturethisfilm@...>
 

Siggers,

To add to the ongoing discourse of Jews having to perform military service,
I've gone through some records which, if I translated it correctly, note
whether the person served in the military, the type and length of service.
For example, FHL film #1662795 includes Jews of Heves county, specifically
Gyongyos, for the years 1847/8.

Additionally, film #0630037 for Miskolc records the military service of the
population, including Jews, for 1914-17.

Although there are military records available at the FHL for other counties,
there aren't a lot in the catalog. Albeit, I would think the Hungarian
Archives have the total of whatever records survived.

Regards,
Bonnie Frederics
Tucson, Arizona
picturethisfilm@email.com
Seeking: ZEISLER, LOWY, ECSEDI, GROEDEL, UNGAR
(Budapest, Eger, Szentes, Skolnok, Maramarrosziget, Gyongyos, DiosGyor,
Kazincz)
Re: Jews serving in the Austro-Hungarian army #hungary

Elaine McKee <elainemckee@...>
 

My mother, who was born in Ungvar (Uzhorod) shortly after the first World
War remembers tales told by her father, who had served his time in the army.
There was a story of how he tried unsuccessfully to avoid conscription. He
did succeed in avoiding being sent to the front lines.

She remembers hearing that "yeshiva bochurs" were exempted.

Elaine Markowski McKee
Toronto Canada
Searching REICH, ZSUPNIK >from Uzhorod, Kosice, Komarnik, Ladomirova

Subject: * Jews serving in the Austro-Hungarian army
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:55:09 -0300
X-Message-Number: 3

Dear all:

Alex brings up a very interesting issue which is worth pursuing: did
the Jews served the military as their gentile counterparts or were
the Austro-Hungarian laws excluding/limiting.

My own experience is very punctual. Two of my uncles were drafted
during WW1, served the K&K army and one of them died on the front.
The other was taken prisoner by the Russians at Premiszl, having been
liberated only when the war was over.

I also recall that in my family it was a custom to try to protect
male youths >from drafting. What these two facts seem to indicate is
that likely, at least in the early 20th century, drafting was
obligatory for Jews and gentiles alike.

I would love to hear other experiences and information on this
subject, including where to find military documents related to the
Austro-Hungarian period of Hungary-Slovakia.

Friendly regards
Tom
Hungary SIG #Hungary JEWS IN THE MILITARY #hungary

B Frederics <picturethisfilm@...>
 

Siggers,

To add to the ongoing discourse of Jews having to perform military service,
I've gone through some records which, if I translated it correctly, note
whether the person served in the military, the type and length of service.
For example, FHL film #1662795 includes Jews of Heves county, specifically
Gyongyos, for the years 1847/8.

Additionally, film #0630037 for Miskolc records the military service of the
population, including Jews, for 1914-17.

Although there are military records available at the FHL for other counties,
there aren't a lot in the catalog. Albeit, I would think the Hungarian
Archives have the total of whatever records survived.

Regards,
Bonnie Frederics
Tucson, Arizona
picturethisfilm@email.com
Seeking: ZEISLER, LOWY, ECSEDI, GROEDEL, UNGAR
(Budapest, Eger, Szentes, Skolnok, Maramarrosziget, Gyongyos, DiosGyor,
Kazincz)
Hungary SIG #Hungary Re:Jews serving in the Austro-Hungarian army #hungary

Elaine McKee <elainemckee@...>
 

My mother, who was born in Ungvar (Uzhorod) shortly after the first World
War remembers tales told by her father, who had served his time in the army.
There was a story of how he tried unsuccessfully to avoid conscription. He
did succeed in avoiding being sent to the front lines.

She remembers hearing that "yeshiva bochurs" were exempted.

Elaine Markowski McKee
Toronto Canada
Searching REICH, ZSUPNIK >from Uzhorod, Kosice, Komarnik, Ladomirova

Subject: * Jews serving in the Austro-Hungarian army
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:55:09 -0300
X-Message-Number: 3

Dear all:

Alex brings up a very interesting issue which is worth pursuing: did
the Jews served the military as their gentile counterparts or were
the Austro-Hungarian laws excluding/limiting.

My own experience is very punctual. Two of my uncles were drafted
during WW1, served the K&K army and one of them died on the front.
The other was taken prisoner by the Russians at Premiszl, having been
liberated only when the war was over.

I also recall that in my family it was a custom to try to protect
male youths >from drafting. What these two facts seem to indicate is
that likely, at least in the early 20th century, drafting was
obligatory for Jews and gentiles alike.

I would love to hear other experiences and information on this
subject, including where to find military documents related to the
Austro-Hungarian period of Hungary-Slovakia.

Friendly regards
Tom
Apealing to the hungarians archives #hungary

amira <amira_m@...>
 

Hi,

I would like to appeal for genealogical records >from Hungarians archives but
I don't know if there is a special document I need to fill in [and where can
I find this form]. I don't know where to find the addresses of the archives
of the specific towns.

I had family in Gyor, Eger, Shalgotatjan and Jaszbereny.

HELP PLEASE.

Amira Mashiah, Israel.
amira_m@masaryk.org.il

Stein, Dubovicz, Singer, Reicher, Neu - Liptov area, Jazernica, Horne Srnie.

Moderator VK: Please check the H-SIG archives for addresses and other information about contacting Hungarian State Archives.
Hungary SIG #Hungary Apealing to the hungarians archives #hungary

amira <amira_m@...>
 

Hi,

I would like to appeal for genealogical records >from Hungarians archives but
I don't know if there is a special document I need to fill in [and where can
I find this form]. I don't know where to find the addresses of the archives
of the specific towns.

I had family in Gyor, Eger, Shalgotatjan and Jaszbereny.

HELP PLEASE.

Amira Mashiah, Israel.
amira_m@masaryk.org.il

Stein, Dubovicz, Singer, Reicher, Neu - Liptov area, Jazernica, Horne Srnie.

Moderator VK: Please check the H-SIG archives for addresses and other information about contacting Hungarian State Archives.
Forced Labor Force #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

Hello,

I am trying to find any information about my father's
brother who was 'drafted' >from the city of Miskolc
into forced labor service in October, 1941. If anyone
on the list has done any research on this topic and
could help me get started, I would greatly appreciate
it.

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman
grosz_chai@yahoo.com

Moderator VK: Please tell us where you are located and which resources you have already consulted. This will help us to assist you with your research.
Hungary SIG #Hungary Forced Labor Force #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

Hello,

I am trying to find any information about my father's
brother who was 'drafted' >from the city of Miskolc
into forced labor service in October, 1941. If anyone
on the list has done any research on this topic and
could help me get started, I would greatly appreciate
it.

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman
grosz_chai@yahoo.com

Moderator VK: Please tell us where you are located and which resources you have already consulted. This will help us to assist you with your research.
Jews in the Austro-Hungarian Army #hungary

MMS <mms@...>
 

Hello All,

The Kira'lyhelmec Remembrance book "A Short Story of the Jewish Communities of Kra'lovsky Chlmec Kira'lyhelmec and the Bodrog District" by Aaron Ehrman 5757-1997 Bne-Brak, Israel on pp. 62-63 quotes the "Magyar Zsido' Lexikon" (= The Hungarian Jewish Lexicon) of 1929. It says (in my free translation into English): 67 members of the congregation participated in the World War, 6 of them were killed.

FYI.

Moshe Shavit
Israel
Jews in the Austro-Hungarian army #hungary

Joyce Field
 

Erwin A. Schmidl wrote an interesting book, "Juden in der k. (u.) k.
Armee 1788-1918" : Jews in the Habsburg Armed Forces." He spoke on
this topic at the New York Genelaogical Conference in August 1999.
The book is in German and English.

Joyce Field
jfield@jewishgen.org
Re: London burial info #unitedkingdom

Peter J E Brunning <peter@...>
 

There are several places where people may have been buried, even if you
are certain that it was a burial and that it was a Jewish cemetery.

However, since 1837 all births in England & Wales have been recorded by
the civil authorities. These records are available in large books for
browsing
in the Family Record Centre in London. However, they are now also available
on the web (for a fee) on http://www.1837online.com/Trace2web/. It's
advisable to have a rough idea of the date or this could take some time and
be costly! It's worth looking first at the transcription available freely
on
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl as this has a good search engine
but the records are not yet complete.

There are also people who will help with this for a fee!

I'm less sure about where to look for the children.

Peter Brunning
Cambridge, England
peter@brunning.org.uk

----- Original Message -----
Subject: London burial info
From: NJ55TURTLE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:15:58 -0500

Hello,

I definitely know Annie Pickholt died in 1900, daughter Becky died in 1898,
and father Jacob Pickholt died between 1896 and 1898, most likely in London.

Where would they have been buried? How can I get these records?

A daughter, Mary, about 4 or 5 was left an orphan. What may have happened
to her? How can I get info on her whereabouts?

In the 1901 census, a Jacob Pickholtz was a student at the Jewish Industrial
school in Hayes. How can I learn about this child? Where can I find
records
that may lead me to his parents and/or this what has happened to this boy?

Steve Pickholtz
Tabernacle, NJ
Hungary SIG #Hungary Jews in the Austro-Hungarian Army #hungary

MMS <mms@...>
 

Hello All,

The Kira'lyhelmec Remembrance book "A Short Story of the Jewish Communities of Kra'lovsky Chlmec Kira'lyhelmec and the Bodrog District" by Aaron Ehrman 5757-1997 Bne-Brak, Israel on pp. 62-63 quotes the "Magyar Zsido' Lexikon" (= The Hungarian Jewish Lexicon) of 1929. It says (in my free translation into English): 67 members of the congregation participated in the World War, 6 of them were killed.

FYI.

Moshe Shavit
Israel
Hungary SIG #Hungary Jews in the Austro-Hungarian army #hungary

Joyce Field
 

Erwin A. Schmidl wrote an interesting book, "Juden in der k. (u.) k.
Armee 1788-1918" : Jews in the Habsburg Armed Forces." He spoke on
this topic at the New York Genelaogical Conference in August 1999.
The book is in German and English.

Joyce Field
jfield@jewishgen.org
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: London burial info #unitedkingdom

Peter J E Brunning <peter@...>
 

There are several places where people may have been buried, even if you
are certain that it was a burial and that it was a Jewish cemetery.

However, since 1837 all births in England & Wales have been recorded by
the civil authorities. These records are available in large books for
browsing
in the Family Record Centre in London. However, they are now also available
on the web (for a fee) on http://www.1837online.com/Trace2web/. It's
advisable to have a rough idea of the date or this could take some time and
be costly! It's worth looking first at the transcription available freely
on
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl as this has a good search engine
but the records are not yet complete.

There are also people who will help with this for a fee!

I'm less sure about where to look for the children.

Peter Brunning
Cambridge, England
peter@brunning.org.uk

----- Original Message -----
Subject: London burial info
From: NJ55TURTLE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:15:58 -0500

Hello,

I definitely know Annie Pickholt died in 1900, daughter Becky died in 1898,
and father Jacob Pickholt died between 1896 and 1898, most likely in London.

Where would they have been buried? How can I get these records?

A daughter, Mary, about 4 or 5 was left an orphan. What may have happened
to her? How can I get info on her whereabouts?

In the 1901 census, a Jacob Pickholtz was a student at the Jewish Industrial
school in Hayes. How can I learn about this child? Where can I find
records
that may lead me to his parents and/or this what has happened to this boy?

Steve Pickholtz
Tabernacle, NJ
áòðééï: [h-sig] "Adam Smith" <ajsmith98@hotmail.com> #hungary

ôøéù <frishmechlis@...>
 

Dear Mr. Venetianer,
The name Alexander is not rare at all among jews. Since Alexander the Great
jews used this name almost as if it was an original jewish name....

Karl Frish
Hod-Hasharon
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
To: H-SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: [h-sig] "Adam Smith" <ajsmith98@hotmail.com>


Dear Adam and all:

The Urberi tabellak are indeed a rich source of information with one majo=
r
drawback: the majority of names, mainly of Jews, do not carry surnames.
Before the Joseph II decree, Jews carried their Hebrew names. When censi=
i
were compiled, censors simply recorded the Hebrew name in the form "give=
n
name-father's name". Thus somebody called Abraham ben Yitzhak would appe=
ar
like "Abrahamus Isacus" or something similar.

I was very lucky because my gggggfather was called Alexander (Sender) a very
rare name among Jews. I found him on one of these lists as Alexander Isacus
and I knew that Yitzhak-Isaac was one of my ancestors, thus the person
recorded was quite likely my relative. This is also how I learned that his
wife was called Barbara and that at the date the census was taken he had 4
children.

Regards
Tom


At 00:00 -0600 27.03.04, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: FHL Microfilms
From: "Adam Smith" <ajsmith98@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:46:52 +0000
X-Message-Number: 6

Hi Everyone,

I was looking through the Family History Library catalogue, and found a =
set
of microfilms of tax lists that seem to go >from the 1770's through 1848.

The title is "Urb=C8ri tabell=B7k, 1767-1773" and the author is: Magyar=
orsz=B7g.
Helytart=DBtan=B7cs. If you scroll through the film numbers, it continu=
es
until
1848. Is anyone familiar with these records?

Do they have any useful name lists?

Take care,
Adam Smith
Moderator VK: The Hungarian version of Alexander is Sandor (Sanyi for short). Karl is correct that the name Aleksander was used by Hungarian Jews as well. I came across this name a number of times while transcribing the Sziget burial records.
bakony forest #hungary

Ruben Weiser <weiser@...>
 

dear all.

I had been told that my schwartz family used to live in the bakony forest in
the north of the balaton lake still 1790 aprox.

wich towns does the bakony forest include?

thanks
ruben weiser
buenos aires
argentina.
404921 - 404940 of 656441