Date   

Could Baruch be David? #general

Marilwebb@...
 

While we are on names, I wonder if Baruch could be David? (I can't find my great-grandfather on any ship manifest and Baruch is the only name that comes close to when he might have come. Any thoughts?)

Thanks,
Marilyn Webb


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Could Baruch be David? #general

Marilwebb@...
 

While we are on names, I wonder if Baruch could be David? (I can't find my great-grandfather on any ship manifest and Baruch is the only name that comes close to when he might have come. Any thoughts?)

Thanks,
Marilyn Webb


Re: death of someone born 1873 #general

IsraelP <isai8v10@...>
 

Evan, I cannot believe there is a clerk - even in government - who insists on
proof of death for someone born 131 years ago!

Israel Pickholtz

Quoting JewishGen Discussion Group digest <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>:


I'd like to send a Freedom of Information Act request in order to get
naturalization information for a Sam(uel) PACK, but I need to provide proof
of his death.

He was born around 1873 and died either in New York City, probably in the
borough of Queens, or in Miami or Miami Beach, Florida around 1946.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: death of someone born 1873 #general

IsraelP <isai8v10@...>
 

Evan, I cannot believe there is a clerk - even in government - who insists on
proof of death for someone born 131 years ago!

Israel Pickholtz

Quoting JewishGen Discussion Group digest <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>:


I'd like to send a Freedom of Information Act request in order to get
naturalization information for a Sam(uel) PACK, but I need to provide proof
of his death.

He was born around 1873 and died either in New York City, probably in the
borough of Queens, or in Miami or Miami Beach, Florida around 1946.


Re: Jewish name for Isabelle? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 11 May 2004 00:55:05 UTC, chaikin@bezeqint.net (chaikin) opined:

Dear all.

I received few replies to my recent posting, and would like to add:

A. Jezebel / Izevel, who was of Phoenician origin, had fought against the
Judeans who believed in god, and tried to convince them to worship Baal and
Ashera (Canaanite gods).
Isabelle, the Spanish queen, was one of the causes for the troubles of the
Jewish people of Spain.
There was a gap of about 2300 years between these two nasty characters, and
nothing seems to have changed :-))

B. Elisheva, which is the Hebrew name for Elisabeth, was the mother of
Achab, and wife of King Solomon.
I don't see any connection between Elisabeth and Isabelle, rather than a
Freudian mistake, made by a rabbi, whose mistake became fact :-))

Best regards,
Udi Cain, Israel
After breathing deeply several times, I am moved to make the following
reply:

It is not always easy to see how names (or indeed words) change in moving
from one language to another. Specifically, the evolution of "Elisheva" to
"Isabel" is not obvious to an English- or Hebrew-speaker, though it may be
more so to a speaker of Spanish. One possibility is that the name passed
through a stage in which a small child, trying her best to get her tongue
around her four-syllable name, managed a simpler three-syllable version that
stuck with her through life. It may be worthwhile to note that, you can get
from "Elisheva" to "Isabel" by moving the "L" >from the first syllable to the
last (as a small child might do), and remembering that "B" and "V" phonemes
are indistinguishable in many of the languages of the Mediterranean basin
(Spanish, Greek, Hebrew).

The bottom line is that there is no connection whatever between "Isabel" and
"Jezebel", either linguistically or historically.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish name for Isabelle? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 11 May 2004 00:55:05 UTC, chaikin@bezeqint.net (chaikin) opined:

Dear all.

I received few replies to my recent posting, and would like to add:

A. Jezebel / Izevel, who was of Phoenician origin, had fought against the
Judeans who believed in god, and tried to convince them to worship Baal and
Ashera (Canaanite gods).
Isabelle, the Spanish queen, was one of the causes for the troubles of the
Jewish people of Spain.
There was a gap of about 2300 years between these two nasty characters, and
nothing seems to have changed :-))

B. Elisheva, which is the Hebrew name for Elisabeth, was the mother of
Achab, and wife of King Solomon.
I don't see any connection between Elisabeth and Isabelle, rather than a
Freudian mistake, made by a rabbi, whose mistake became fact :-))

Best regards,
Udi Cain, Israel
After breathing deeply several times, I am moved to make the following
reply:

It is not always easy to see how names (or indeed words) change in moving
from one language to another. Specifically, the evolution of "Elisheva" to
"Isabel" is not obvious to an English- or Hebrew-speaker, though it may be
more so to a speaker of Spanish. One possibility is that the name passed
through a stage in which a small child, trying her best to get her tongue
around her four-syllable name, managed a simpler three-syllable version that
stuck with her through life. It may be worthwhile to note that, you can get
from "Elisheva" to "Isabel" by moving the "L" >from the first syllable to the
last (as a small child might do), and remembering that "B" and "V" phonemes
are indistinguishable in many of the languages of the Mediterranean basin
(Spanish, Greek, Hebrew).

The bottom line is that there is no connection whatever between "Isabel" and
"Jezebel", either linguistically or historically.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Re: Zlata #general

Avrohom Krauss <krauss@...>
 

No problem. While it is true that certain names with the same meaning are
traditionally treated as the same name and a mother and daughter would not
share names with a common meaning,this is not always the case. As long as
there is some difference between the names, the two close relations may use
them. Zlata (Polish) and Golda (German/Yiddish) is a good example. I knew of
at least one family where mother and daughter were named Henna and Chana,
although the former is a Yiddish derividive of the Hebrew, Chana. Other
examples are: The Aramaic name, Akiva, originally derived >from Yaakov,
Chanina, Chananya, Yochanan, Elchanan all share a common root (with the
following meanings: find favor, grace/charm, mercy/forgive), etc.

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Zlata #general

Avrohom Krauss <krauss@...>
 

No problem. While it is true that certain names with the same meaning are
traditionally treated as the same name and a mother and daughter would not
share names with a common meaning,this is not always the case. As long as
there is some difference between the names, the two close relations may use
them. Zlata (Polish) and Golda (German/Yiddish) is a good example. I knew of
at least one family where mother and daughter were named Henna and Chana,
although the former is a Yiddish derividive of the Hebrew, Chana. Other
examples are: The Aramaic name, Akiva, originally derived >from Yaakov,
Chanina, Chananya, Yochanan, Elchanan all share a common root (with the
following meanings: find favor, grace/charm, mercy/forgive), etc.

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman


Re: First Name Zlata #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

I know two sisters, one named Zlateh and one named Goldie. Each name is
considered an individual name. Of course, when they were both in the same
Hebrew school, if they had had one of the teachers described by some
genners, both would have had their names translated into Hebrew as Zahava!
Ida

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara [mailto:barbaraellman@vzavenue.net]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:19 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: First Name Zlata

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman

barbaraellman@vzavenue.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: First Name Zlata #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

I know two sisters, one named Zlateh and one named Goldie. Each name is
considered an individual name. Of course, when they were both in the same
Hebrew school, if they had had one of the teachers described by some
genners, both would have had their names translated into Hebrew as Zahava!
Ida

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara [mailto:barbaraellman@vzavenue.net]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:19 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: First Name Zlata

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman

barbaraellman@vzavenue.net


Re: First Name Zlata #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 11 May 2004 01:50:33 UTC, barbaraellman@vzavenue.net (Barbara)
opined:

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman
That the explanation is correct can be verified easily; Zloto/Zlato/Zoloto
is "Gold" in Polish/Czech/Russian. It would be more difficult to establish
your ggm's motivation in naming her daughter Golda.

To speculate, however, it is possible that your gm was named for an entirely
different Golda somewhere in the family tree. Or that your ggm perceived
Zlata and Golda as two different names (even while understanding the
linguistic link between them).

I don't see a problem.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Jewish Consumptives Relief Society in Denver #ukraine

abe simon <abe_simon@...>
 

I responded to a posting on this subject in the JGen group and since this is
a subject of generic concern I am posting it on this SIG also in hopes it
will help some of the members.

Abe Simon
JGSCO member
==========================================
Regarding your 5/8/2004 post on JewishGen about the Jewish Consumptives
Relief Society in Denver, Colorado

Yes, there is a JCRS online names index in the works. Part of it is
available online at
http://library.du.edu/about/collections/SpecialCollections/JCRS/alphabetical.cfm.
Volunteer members of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Colorado are
indexing these patient records and have posted 1904-1914 already.

However, for a 1940 era patient, you will need to contact the University of
Denver Judaic Studies Department directly for them to do a search/lookup.
Try the director, Jeanne Abrahams at jabrams@du.edu or her assistant, Thyria
Wilson at twilson@du.edu. They can check original patient records.

Most deceased patients >from JCRS were buried at either Golden Hill Cemetery
(Denver/Lakewood area - west side, Colorado) or Mount Nebo Cemetery
(Denver/Aurora area - east side, Colorado). All cemetery records for Golden
Hill Cemetery have been posted on the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
Registry http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/ so you might want to
search those records for a grave location.

You might also be interested in knowing that you could request a 1940 death
certificate throught the Colorado Department of Public Health and
Environment: Health Statistics and Vital Records at
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/certs.asp.

Last summer, the IAJGS awarded this very project the esteemed Stern Award
$2000 to help speed the indexing along. It will take more time and money so
if you do find a record, a donation to DU earmarked for this project would
be appreciated.

More detail about the history of the Jewish Consumptives Relief Society can
be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/iajgs/JCRSproj.htm


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Name Zlata #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Tue, 11 May 2004 01:50:33 UTC, barbaraellman@vzavenue.net (Barbara)
opined:

"Zlata" is >from "Zloto", the Polish for "Gold" Thus the Polish unit of
I have a problem with this explanation. My great-grandmother was Golde.
She named her first child Zlata.

What could explain this if Stan's statement is correct?

Barbara Ellman
That the explanation is correct can be verified easily; Zloto/Zlato/Zoloto
is "Gold" in Polish/Czech/Russian. It would be more difficult to establish
your ggm's motivation in naming her daughter Golda.

To speculate, however, it is possible that your gm was named for an entirely
different Golda somewhere in the family tree. Or that your ggm perceived
Zlata and Golda as two different names (even while understanding the
linguistic link between them).

I don't see a problem.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Jewish Consumptives Relief Society in Denver #ukraine

abe simon <abe_simon@...>
 

I responded to a posting on this subject in the JGen group and since this is
a subject of generic concern I am posting it on this SIG also in hopes it
will help some of the members.

Abe Simon
JGSCO member
==========================================
Regarding your 5/8/2004 post on JewishGen about the Jewish Consumptives
Relief Society in Denver, Colorado

Yes, there is a JCRS online names index in the works. Part of it is
available online at
http://library.du.edu/about/collections/SpecialCollections/JCRS/alphabetical.cfm.
Volunteer members of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Colorado are
indexing these patient records and have posted 1904-1914 already.

However, for a 1940 era patient, you will need to contact the University of
Denver Judaic Studies Department directly for them to do a search/lookup.
Try the director, Jeanne Abrahams at jabrams@du.edu or her assistant, Thyria
Wilson at twilson@du.edu. They can check original patient records.

Most deceased patients >from JCRS were buried at either Golden Hill Cemetery
(Denver/Lakewood area - west side, Colorado) or Mount Nebo Cemetery
(Denver/Aurora area - east side, Colorado). All cemetery records for Golden
Hill Cemetery have been posted on the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
Registry http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/ so you might want to
search those records for a grave location.

You might also be interested in knowing that you could request a 1940 death
certificate throught the Colorado Department of Public Health and
Environment: Health Statistics and Vital Records at
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/certs.asp.

Last summer, the IAJGS awarded this very project the esteemed Stern Award
$2000 to help speed the indexing along. It will take more time and money so
if you do find a record, a donation to DU earmarked for this project would
be appreciated.

More detail about the history of the Jewish Consumptives Relief Society can
be found at http://www.jewishgen.org/iajgs/JCRSproj.htm


Archives research in New York City #general

Dave Estes Winston <dave279@...>
 

I would like to know when you send in a request for Marriage
Licenses and/or Certificates if the NYC Municipal Archives
check both the records of the NYC Department of Health as
well as the City Clerk's Offices in New York City boroughs.
Thanks, Dave Estes Winston @ E: Mail: DAVE279@CHARTER.NET


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Archives research in New York City #general

Dave Estes Winston <dave279@...>
 

I would like to know when you send in a request for Marriage
Licenses and/or Certificates if the NYC Municipal Archives
check both the records of the NYC Department of Health as
well as the City Clerk's Offices in New York City boroughs.
Thanks, Dave Estes Winston @ E: Mail: DAVE279@CHARTER.NET


Correct address of Boston MA area National Archives #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

An earlier message stated that the Boston
area NARA was located at the JFK library
in Dorchester. This is not correct.

The Boston area NARA is
located in Waltham, MA

Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center
380 Trapelo Road
Waltham, MA 02452-6399
(781) 647-8104
http://www.nara.gov/regional/boston.html

I think the JFK library is under the direction
of NARA, so that may have caused the confusion.

The JFK library is located at Columbia Point. Another
research facility located at Columbia Point is the
Massachusetts State Archives.

Lisa
llepore@comcast.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Correct address of Boston MA area National Archives #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

An earlier message stated that the Boston
area NARA was located at the JFK library
in Dorchester. This is not correct.

The Boston area NARA is
located in Waltham, MA

Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center
380 Trapelo Road
Waltham, MA 02452-6399
(781) 647-8104
http://www.nara.gov/regional/boston.html

I think the JFK library is under the direction
of NARA, so that may have caused the confusion.

The JFK library is located at Columbia Point. Another
research facility located at Columbia Point is the
Massachusetts State Archives.

Lisa
llepore@comcast.net


Yad Vashem - list of names from France #general

Marilynn Wenig <birdmom@...>
 

www.yad-vashem.org.il/download/remembrance/bycountry/FRANCEENGLISH.pdf -

I found the above site when surfing the web, It contains a list of names
from the Holocaust >from France.
Richard Wenig
Show Low, AZ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yad Vashem - list of names from France #general

Marilynn Wenig <birdmom@...>
 

www.yad-vashem.org.il/download/remembrance/bycountry/FRANCEENGLISH.pdf -

I found the above site when surfing the web, It contains a list of names
from the Holocaust >from France.
Richard Wenig
Show Low, AZ