Date   

Re: Jewish name for Isabelle? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:07:23 UTC, chaikin@bezeqint.net (chaikin) opined:

Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca wrote:

See for instance
<http://www.geocities.com/edgarbook/names/i/isabel.html>
and
<http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/is/isabel.html>

=In another site, there is another possibility, to which I referred, and to
me it makes much more sense:
http://www.behindthename.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?terms=isabel&nmd=n&gender=both&operator=or

Best regards,
Udi Cain, Israel
It does indeed make a lot of sense. What it says is:

===
Most likely a medieval Spanish form of Elizabeth, although some theories
state that Isabel actually derives >from an old Semitic name meaning
"daughter of Baal".
===

The crucial difference >from what you said is that it gives the most
probable, most generally accepted, and most defensible derivation, and then
offers the admitted fact that there are some people who favor the "Jezebel"
explanation. The site is clearly not propounding it as fact,

It has been remarked to me in a private communication that the latter is a
"traditional explanation" of the derivation of the name. "Traditional
explanation" here can *only* be understood as meaning "folk etymology". That
is, a person unfamiliar with the history of a word (or name), without access
to documentation of its development over time or interest in the same, can
be forgiven for jumping to the conclusion that current phonetic resemblance
is a reliable guide to the origin of the word/name.

Folk etymologies are notoriously unreliable, although they may "make much
more sense" on cursory view.

I can give an example: I once participated in a newsgroup devoted to
New-Kingdom Egyptian language (i.e. >from the centuries that included the
Exodus >from Egypt), in which I was the only participant grounded in Hebrew.
In one discussion, another person told me that, in his opinion, the name
"Abraham" was derived >from the name of the Hindu god Brahma, and that the
Jewish mourning custom of "Shiva" was derived >from that of the Hindu god of
the same name. Because the latter is the god of destruction and
regeneration, the transition seemed quite reasonable for a mourning custom;
Brahma being the source of all being, his name is appropriate for a
Patriarch; and the orthographic evidence (especially after transliteration
to a Latin alphabet) seemed to him overwhelming -- all in all, his idea
"makes much sense".

It doesn't to you and me, of course, because we have much more knowledge
than he did

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish name for Isabelle? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:07:23 UTC, chaikin@bezeqint.net (chaikin) opined:

Robert Israel israel@math.ubc.ca wrote:

See for instance
<http://www.geocities.com/edgarbook/names/i/isabel.html>
and
<http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/is/isabel.html>

=In another site, there is another possibility, to which I referred, and to
me it makes much more sense:
http://www.behindthename.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?terms=isabel&nmd=n&gender=both&operator=or

Best regards,
Udi Cain, Israel
It does indeed make a lot of sense. What it says is:

===
Most likely a medieval Spanish form of Elizabeth, although some theories
state that Isabel actually derives >from an old Semitic name meaning
"daughter of Baal".
===

The crucial difference >from what you said is that it gives the most
probable, most generally accepted, and most defensible derivation, and then
offers the admitted fact that there are some people who favor the "Jezebel"
explanation. The site is clearly not propounding it as fact,

It has been remarked to me in a private communication that the latter is a
"traditional explanation" of the derivation of the name. "Traditional
explanation" here can *only* be understood as meaning "folk etymology". That
is, a person unfamiliar with the history of a word (or name), without access
to documentation of its development over time or interest in the same, can
be forgiven for jumping to the conclusion that current phonetic resemblance
is a reliable guide to the origin of the word/name.

Folk etymologies are notoriously unreliable, although they may "make much
more sense" on cursory view.

I can give an example: I once participated in a newsgroup devoted to
New-Kingdom Egyptian language (i.e. >from the centuries that included the
Exodus >from Egypt), in which I was the only participant grounded in Hebrew.
In one discussion, another person told me that, in his opinion, the name
"Abraham" was derived >from the name of the Hindu god Brahma, and that the
Jewish mourning custom of "Shiva" was derived >from that of the Hindu god of
the same name. Because the latter is the god of destruction and
regeneration, the transition seemed quite reasonable for a mourning custom;
Brahma being the source of all being, his name is appropriate for a
Patriarch; and the orthographic evidence (especially after transliteration
to a Latin alphabet) seemed to him overwhelming -- all in all, his idea
"makes much sense".

It doesn't to you and me, of course, because we have much more knowledge
than he did

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please REPLACE the CAPITAL LETTERS with JGEN in order to send me email.
Please do not send me HTML-formatted messages. Please do not send me
attachments without coordinating with me beforehand.


Barnett birth cert and marriage cert #general

Essy Skinner
 

Hello to the list:

In researching my grandmother I have received a birth certificate and
marriage certificate that are not my BARNETT and if there is someone who it
may belong to I can email a copy and if it belongs to them I will snail mail
it to them.

They are as follows:

Birth Certificate for Jennie, father John Andrew Barnett, mother Mary Jane
Parker.
address 53 Reunion Road, Newington, born September 28,1895.

Marriage Certificate for John Andrew Barnett and Mary Jane Parker on the
25th of December 1892 in the Church of All Saints in the Parish of
Newington.

They are certified copies received >from the UK.

I have received the correct birth certificate for my grandmother and hope
that these belong to someone who will see this posting.

Good hunting to all,
regards,

Esther FINEBERG Skinner
Corinth, TX
USA

Researching:
FINEBERG Ekaterinoslav,UK,NJ,NY
BARNETT UK,NJ,NY,CA,Long Island,NV,Canada
PARIS Russia,Mexico,TX,NY,Canada,Colorado
ISSACMAN Russia,Mexico,TX,NY,Canada
WAGMAN Romania, Russia,NY,Canada,France
SONTAG Russia,unknown

email replies to : marineowl@centurytel.net
owlmarine67@hotmail.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Searching list truncated at the allowable six lines.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Barnett birth cert and marriage cert #general

Essy Skinner
 

Hello to the list:

In researching my grandmother I have received a birth certificate and
marriage certificate that are not my BARNETT and if there is someone who it
may belong to I can email a copy and if it belongs to them I will snail mail
it to them.

They are as follows:

Birth Certificate for Jennie, father John Andrew Barnett, mother Mary Jane
Parker.
address 53 Reunion Road, Newington, born September 28,1895.

Marriage Certificate for John Andrew Barnett and Mary Jane Parker on the
25th of December 1892 in the Church of All Saints in the Parish of
Newington.

They are certified copies received >from the UK.

I have received the correct birth certificate for my grandmother and hope
that these belong to someone who will see this posting.

Good hunting to all,
regards,

Esther FINEBERG Skinner
Corinth, TX
USA

Researching:
FINEBERG Ekaterinoslav,UK,NJ,NY
BARNETT UK,NJ,NY,CA,Long Island,NV,Canada
PARIS Russia,Mexico,TX,NY,Canada,Colorado
ISSACMAN Russia,Mexico,TX,NY,Canada
WAGMAN Romania, Russia,NY,Canada,France
SONTAG Russia,unknown

email replies to : marineowl@centurytel.net
owlmarine67@hotmail.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Searching list truncated at the allowable six lines.


Re: Alsace town location #general

Irwin B. Margiloff <margiloff@...>
 

This may be Kientzheim, near Colmar. Alsace is now in France.

Irwin Margiloff
Duarte, California

<FChenin@aol.com> wrote

My wife's grandmother is Alsatian. She arrived in the United States in
1906. According to the Ship Passenger List, she came >from a town called
Kranterzheim which was then in Germany. Does anyone know where this town is
located.
Fred Chenin
Mayfield Heights, Ohio, USA
fchenin@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Alsace town location #general

Irwin B. Margiloff <margiloff@...>
 

This may be Kientzheim, near Colmar. Alsace is now in France.

Irwin Margiloff
Duarte, California

<FChenin@aol.com> wrote

My wife's grandmother is Alsatian. She arrived in the United States in
1906. According to the Ship Passenger List, she came >from a town called
Kranterzheim which was then in Germany. Does anyone know where this town is
located.
Fred Chenin
Mayfield Heights, Ohio, USA
fchenin@aol.com


ROTHCHILD-Valcau de Jos #romania

hfpjc
 

Hi there everyone,

Does anyone out there in JewishGen Land know any descendants of the
ROTHCHILDs of Valcau de Jos, Romania?

As I've recently posted, we at the Heritage Foundation for Preservation of
Jewish Cemeteries (HFPJC) are preparing to restore, among others, the
rather neglected Jewish cemetery of Valcau. We are missing some important
info regarding the Rothchild tombstones, so if you are descending >from the
VAlcau Rothchilds or know someone who is, I'd really appreciate if you could
contact our office via e-mail (hfpjc@thejnet.com) or phone (800-945-1552).

Thanks a lot,

Toby Mendlowitz
Assistant director
HFPJC
Brooklyn, NY


Romania SIG #Romania ROTHCHILD-Valcau de Jos #romania

hfpjc
 

Hi there everyone,

Does anyone out there in JewishGen Land know any descendants of the
ROTHCHILDs of Valcau de Jos, Romania?

As I've recently posted, we at the Heritage Foundation for Preservation of
Jewish Cemeteries (HFPJC) are preparing to restore, among others, the
rather neglected Jewish cemetery of Valcau. We are missing some important
info regarding the Rothchild tombstones, so if you are descending >from the
VAlcau Rothchilds or know someone who is, I'd really appreciate if you could
contact our office via e-mail (hfpjc@thejnet.com) or phone (800-945-1552).

Thanks a lot,

Toby Mendlowitz
Assistant director
HFPJC
Brooklyn, NY


Source on Righteous Gentiles #belarus

Scott D. Seligman <heyscott@...>
 

I'm working on a website to honor the Jews of the shtetl of Porozow
(Porozovo; Parasowo) in Western Belarus, and I happened on an article
called "Wartime Rescue of Jews by the Polish Catholic Clergy" that was
posted on the web (http://www.kpk.org/english/toronto/clergy.pdf) by a
Toronto-based group called the Polish Educational Foundation in North
America. It's essentially a set accounts of acts of kindness and rescue
of Jews by the Polish clergy during World War II.

In relating a story about the priest of Parasowo who sheltered Jews
during the Nazi occupation, the article quotes another source: Micha
Grynberg and Maria Kotowska, comp. and eds., Zycie I zaglada Zydow
polskich 1939-1945: Relacje swiadkow [Warszawa: Oficyna Naukowa, 2003],
p.386.).

It seems as if it's the work of a professional historian, but I don't
have a frame of reference to evaluate whether this is credible history
or not, and I'm wondering if anyone out there can help me evaluate these
sources. If the story is likely to be true, I'd love to include it in
the site as the acts of a righteous gentile.
Many thanks.

Scott Seligman


Belarus SIG #Belarus Source on Righteous Gentiles #belarus

Scott D. Seligman <heyscott@...>
 

I'm working on a website to honor the Jews of the shtetl of Porozow
(Porozovo; Parasowo) in Western Belarus, and I happened on an article
called "Wartime Rescue of Jews by the Polish Catholic Clergy" that was
posted on the web (http://www.kpk.org/english/toronto/clergy.pdf) by a
Toronto-based group called the Polish Educational Foundation in North
America. It's essentially a set accounts of acts of kindness and rescue
of Jews by the Polish clergy during World War II.

In relating a story about the priest of Parasowo who sheltered Jews
during the Nazi occupation, the article quotes another source: Micha
Grynberg and Maria Kotowska, comp. and eds., Zycie I zaglada Zydow
polskich 1939-1945: Relacje swiadkow [Warszawa: Oficyna Naukowa, 2003],
p.386.).

It seems as if it's the work of a professional historian, but I don't
have a frame of reference to evaluate whether this is credible history
or not, and I'm wondering if anyone out there can help me evaluate these
sources. If the story is likely to be true, I'd love to include it in
the site as the acts of a righteous gentile.
Many thanks.

Scott Seligman


Kronberg/Taunus,Germany. vs Cramberg #germany

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

My guess is that Kronberg could easily be read as Cramberg - think about how you
would write them and an "on" could easily be read as "am" especially in the old
writing.

I have a relative >from Cronberg, Schwalbach and was told it is now Kronberg.

I have not been able to get any information >from there, so if anyone has
any information >from there I would be interested. (I found some at FHC but
could not decide for certain if I had found the Elise Baer I was seaching for.

Arline Sachs Springfield, VA

searching Elise Baer >from the early 1800s. She had a child in 1865 in
Wiesbaden.


German SIG #Germany Kronberg/Taunus,Germany. vs Cramberg #germany

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

My guess is that Kronberg could easily be read as Cramberg - think about how you
would write them and an "on" could easily be read as "am" especially in the old
writing.

I have a relative >from Cronberg, Schwalbach and was told it is now Kronberg.

I have not been able to get any information >from there, so if anyone has
any information >from there I would be interested. (I found some at FHC but
could not decide for certain if I had found the Elise Baer I was seaching for.

Arline Sachs Springfield, VA

searching Elise Baer >from the early 1800s. She had a child in 1865 in
Wiesbaden.


Rabbi KOPELOVITZ #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

Seeking a Rabbi KOPELOVITZ who lived in Pokrojis, (Pokroi) Lithuania in
the 19th century.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
mailto:chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Rabbi KOPELOVITZ #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

Seeking a Rabbi KOPELOVITZ who lived in Pokrojis, (Pokroi) Lithuania in
the 19th century.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
mailto:chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Lithuania and Courland #lithuania

WWW
 

Martha Levinson Lev ZionPh. D. wrote that Plunge was in the Grobin district
of Courland (Latvia).

When was Plunge part of Latvia? My Wolpert and Grosberg families were from
the Lithuanian towns of Tryskiai and Vieksniai. A family member had said
that the family was >from Courland, so Dr. Lev Zion's statement is of
particular interest to me. Is it possible that records for Tryskiai and
Vieksniai are also in the Riga archives?

Bill Wolpert in Minneapolis Minnesota

Wolpert Volpert Wolper Grosberg Grossberg
Tryskiai Vieksniai South Africa

-----Original Message-----
From: martha [mailto:martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il]
Subject: [litvaksig] Records of Plunge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elaine Bush might be interested to know that the records on Plunge
have not entirely disappeared. The area was at one time in the
district of Grobin in Courland [Latvia]. The Latvian Archives in Riga
have the following records for Plunge, known in German as Polangen
and in Latvian as Palanga:

The lists of Merchants: 1895, 1900-1917

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
Jerusalem, July 4-9, 2004
http://www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Lithuania and Courland #lithuania

WWW
 

Martha Levinson Lev ZionPh. D. wrote that Plunge was in the Grobin district
of Courland (Latvia).

When was Plunge part of Latvia? My Wolpert and Grosberg families were from
the Lithuanian towns of Tryskiai and Vieksniai. A family member had said
that the family was >from Courland, so Dr. Lev Zion's statement is of
particular interest to me. Is it possible that records for Tryskiai and
Vieksniai are also in the Riga archives?

Bill Wolpert in Minneapolis Minnesota

Wolpert Volpert Wolper Grosberg Grossberg
Tryskiai Vieksniai South Africa

-----Original Message-----
From: martha [mailto:martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il]
Subject: [litvaksig] Records of Plunge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elaine Bush might be interested to know that the records on Plunge
have not entirely disappeared. The area was at one time in the
district of Grobin in Courland [Latvia]. The Latvian Archives in Riga
have the following records for Plunge, known in German as Polangen
and in Latvian as Palanga:

The lists of Merchants: 1895, 1900-1917

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
Jerusalem, July 4-9, 2004
http://www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004


Kopelovitz #lithuania

Chaim freedman
 

Seeking a Rabbi Kopelovitz who lived in Pokrojis, (Pokroi) Lithuania in the
19th century.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Kopelovitz #lithuania

Chaim freedman
 

Seeking a Rabbi Kopelovitz who lived in Pokrojis, (Pokroi) Lithuania in the
19th century.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il


Records of Plunge #lithuania

martha <martha@...>
 

Elaine Bush might be interested to know that the records on Plunge
have not entirely disappeared. The area was at one time in the
district of Grobin in Courland [Latvia]. The Latvian Archives in Riga
have the following records for Plunge, known in German as Polangen
and in Latvian as Palanga:

The lists of Merchants: 1895, 1900-1917

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
Jerusalem, July 4-9, 2004
http://www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Records of Plunge #lithuania

martha <martha@...>
 

Elaine Bush might be interested to know that the records on Plunge
have not entirely disappeared. The area was at one time in the
district of Grobin in Courland [Latvia]. The Latvian Archives in Riga
have the following records for Plunge, known in German as Polangen
and in Latvian as Palanga:

The lists of Merchants: 1895, 1900-1917

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Ph.D.
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
Jerusalem, July 4-9, 2004
http://www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004