Date   

Re: Original copies of Polish birth certificates. Are they availabe? #general

Gershon bi-Kroke <gershon_gp@...>
 

Are the original copies of Polish birth certificates
available? I recieved typed certificates on new forms.
I am seeking the signatures of my Grandparents from
Warka Poland on their childrens birth certificates.
Thank you,
Marilyn Hoffman
Dear Marilyn,

records "younger" than 100 years are kept and handled by the Urzad Stanu
Cywilnego (Marital Status Office) and being a state institution for
marital status data, they issue only excerpts >from original documents
but not photocopies of the original documents.
Copies of the original ones are available only >from the State Archives -
those that are already 100 years old and older.

With best regards,

--
G. Gembala
Krakow, Poland

Researching GLEICH, PILLERSDORF, KLETZE,
ESKREIS, JANCZER (Galicia), SIMSON (U.S.)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Original copies of Polish birth certificates. Are they availabe? #general

Gershon bi-Kroke <gershon_gp@...>
 

Are the original copies of Polish birth certificates
available? I recieved typed certificates on new forms.
I am seeking the signatures of my Grandparents from
Warka Poland on their childrens birth certificates.
Thank you,
Marilyn Hoffman
Dear Marilyn,

records "younger" than 100 years are kept and handled by the Urzad Stanu
Cywilnego (Marital Status Office) and being a state institution for
marital status data, they issue only excerpts >from original documents
but not photocopies of the original documents.
Copies of the original ones are available only >from the State Archives -
those that are already 100 years old and older.

With best regards,

--
G. Gembala
Krakow, Poland

Researching GLEICH, PILLERSDORF, KLETZE,
ESKREIS, JANCZER (Galicia), SIMSON (U.S.)


Zhitomir area census puzzles #general

Pavel Bernshtam <pavelb@...>
 

I just received >from Zhitomir archive census and birth records on
KELMAN surname >from Chervonoe shtetl. These records are written by
terrible handwriting, and sometimes are a little puzzle.

Let's start >from the first avaiable census: Revizskaya Skazka 1816.
We see here following data

Ios Zelmanovich KELMAN polyak - [age in 1811 - was ommited], [age in
1816 - 36]

My questions:
What means "polyak" (the first letter seems to be small!)?
Is is the second part of double surname? Or nickname? Or
it means that he came >from Poland ("polyak" in Russian means polish man)
What means "was ommited"? I saw yet people in this census with the same
label.
How it happens that he was ommited, but his children were recorder???

Next census (Revizskaya SKazka 1834) only adds puzzles:

Ios Zelmanovich KELMAN POLYAK [age in 1816 - 36 ] [age in 1834 - 54]

After 16 years we see the same man with a different family !!!
There is other name of his wife as well other names for children!
POLYAK already is written with a capital letter, as part of surname.

And where are his children >from previous census?

They are here, with their own families, but 2 >from them with surname POLYAK!!!
And one of them with surname KELMAN!

My question:
do you know same cases when one of children took one part of the surname,
while other took the another part.
Do you know reasons for this?

In 1850 census there are no puzzles and we see here the same family of
Leib KELMAN, but in the birth records we see the next puzzle:
in 1857 in the family of Gersh KELMAN, the son of Lejb was born a boy
Ios Shmul. We see here that the mother is recorder as Gudel Rukodel'nik.

My question:
What here means "Rukodel'nik"? Is it her original surname? Occupation
("rukodel'nik" in russian means needlewoman)? nickname?

Thank you!

P.S. If somebody is interesting in the whole records about KELMANs
that I receieved, tell me.
P.P.S. Also I have received records about KANTORs >from Novograd
Volynsk uyezd >from 1850 census. Unfortunatly there is the only source
of information about Novograd Volynsk uyezd.
No any other census or birth records were survived

Pavel Bernshtam
------------------
Searching for:

ITKIN - Kolyshki, Vitebsk uyead, Vitebsk gubernia; Kharkov,
BENIOMENSON - Bocheikovo, Lepel uyezd, Kharkov,
BERNSHTAM - Akimovka (Melitopol oblast), Melitopol, ALTSHULER -
Priazovskoe (Pokrovka)(Melitopol oblast) , Melitopol, Chausy (Mogilev gubernia)
KANTOR - Polonnoe (Volyn gubernia), Baranovka (Volyn gubernia), Zhitomir,
LAMDAN, LAMDIN - Mlinov
ZHURAHOV, ZURAHOV - Chervonnoe (Zhitomir uyezd), Verbovo (Skvir uyezd) , Zhitomir,
KELMAN - Chervonnoe (Zhitomir uyezd), Zhitomir


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Zhitomir area census puzzles #general

Pavel Bernshtam <pavelb@...>
 

I just received >from Zhitomir archive census and birth records on
KELMAN surname >from Chervonoe shtetl. These records are written by
terrible handwriting, and sometimes are a little puzzle.

Let's start >from the first avaiable census: Revizskaya Skazka 1816.
We see here following data

Ios Zelmanovich KELMAN polyak - [age in 1811 - was ommited], [age in
1816 - 36]

My questions:
What means "polyak" (the first letter seems to be small!)?
Is is the second part of double surname? Or nickname? Or
it means that he came >from Poland ("polyak" in Russian means polish man)
What means "was ommited"? I saw yet people in this census with the same
label.
How it happens that he was ommited, but his children were recorder???

Next census (Revizskaya SKazka 1834) only adds puzzles:

Ios Zelmanovich KELMAN POLYAK [age in 1816 - 36 ] [age in 1834 - 54]

After 16 years we see the same man with a different family !!!
There is other name of his wife as well other names for children!
POLYAK already is written with a capital letter, as part of surname.

And where are his children >from previous census?

They are here, with their own families, but 2 >from them with surname POLYAK!!!
And one of them with surname KELMAN!

My question:
do you know same cases when one of children took one part of the surname,
while other took the another part.
Do you know reasons for this?

In 1850 census there are no puzzles and we see here the same family of
Leib KELMAN, but in the birth records we see the next puzzle:
in 1857 in the family of Gersh KELMAN, the son of Lejb was born a boy
Ios Shmul. We see here that the mother is recorder as Gudel Rukodel'nik.

My question:
What here means "Rukodel'nik"? Is it her original surname? Occupation
("rukodel'nik" in russian means needlewoman)? nickname?

Thank you!

P.S. If somebody is interesting in the whole records about KELMANs
that I receieved, tell me.
P.P.S. Also I have received records about KANTORs >from Novograd
Volynsk uyezd >from 1850 census. Unfortunatly there is the only source
of information about Novograd Volynsk uyezd.
No any other census or birth records were survived

Pavel Bernshtam
------------------
Searching for:

ITKIN - Kolyshki, Vitebsk uyead, Vitebsk gubernia; Kharkov,
BENIOMENSON - Bocheikovo, Lepel uyezd, Kharkov,
BERNSHTAM - Akimovka (Melitopol oblast), Melitopol, ALTSHULER -
Priazovskoe (Pokrovka)(Melitopol oblast) , Melitopol, Chausy (Mogilev gubernia)
KANTOR - Polonnoe (Volyn gubernia), Baranovka (Volyn gubernia), Zhitomir,
LAMDAN, LAMDIN - Mlinov
ZHURAHOV, ZURAHOV - Chervonnoe (Zhitomir uyezd), Verbovo (Skvir uyezd) , Zhitomir,
KELMAN - Chervonnoe (Zhitomir uyezd), Zhitomir


Genealogy class online - Jewish Internet Research #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Have you tried to access relevant online sources for your Jewish genealogy
research questions?
Would you like to understand how search engines work and how best to
formulate searches to get the results you need and want?
Do you want to know what is out there and how to access it?
Would you like to become a more efficient online researcher?

Genners who answer "yes" to these questions may be interested in a four-week
Jewish Internet Research course, with instructors Micha Reisel and Schelly
Talalay Dardashti, beginning August 4, on www.myfamily.com.
The class provides eight lessons, uploaded two each week, two weekly online
chats for students and instructors to interact, and free access to Ancestry
databases during the class. Class is fee-based.
Students already registered are based in the Canary Islands, Europe, America
and elsewhere.

In May, the initial course, Beginning Jewish Genealogy, also involved
students >from around the world (Australia, Austria, UK, France, US etc. We
were happy to meet some of our online students in person at the Jerusalem
conference.

"Beginning Jewish Genealogy" will be repeated beginning October 7.

For complete information on the Jewish Internet Research class, click on
http://tinyurl.com/446s6 or go to www.myfamily.com, scroll down on the right
side to genealogy courses.

Micha Reisel
micha@...

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
schelly@...
schelly@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Genealogy class online - Jewish Internet Research #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Have you tried to access relevant online sources for your Jewish genealogy
research questions?
Would you like to understand how search engines work and how best to
formulate searches to get the results you need and want?
Do you want to know what is out there and how to access it?
Would you like to become a more efficient online researcher?

Genners who answer "yes" to these questions may be interested in a four-week
Jewish Internet Research course, with instructors Micha Reisel and Schelly
Talalay Dardashti, beginning August 4, on www.myfamily.com.
The class provides eight lessons, uploaded two each week, two weekly online
chats for students and instructors to interact, and free access to Ancestry
databases during the class. Class is fee-based.
Students already registered are based in the Canary Islands, Europe, America
and elsewhere.

In May, the initial course, Beginning Jewish Genealogy, also involved
students >from around the world (Australia, Austria, UK, France, US etc. We
were happy to meet some of our online students in person at the Jerusalem
conference.

"Beginning Jewish Genealogy" will be repeated beginning October 7.

For complete information on the Jewish Internet Research class, click on
http://tinyurl.com/446s6 or go to www.myfamily.com, scroll down on the right
side to genealogy courses.

Micha Reisel
micha@...

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
schelly@...
schelly@...


NY Times article on genealogy & genetics #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Dear Genners,

For those interested in the ***non-technical*** aspects and implications of
genealogy and genetics, this very interesting article in today's (July 31)
New York Times discusses the importance of a 1.6 million person Mormon
genealogical database in Utah in tracing genetics, as well as the emergence
of Utah as a base for genetics-focused companies.
http://tinyurl.com/5bydz

Headline: By accident, Utah is proving an ideal genetics laboratory

The story mentions Dr. Mark Skolnick of Myriad Genetic Inc., one of the
biggest companies in the new genetics corridor near the University of Utah.
He was a professor and a pioneer in the discovery of the breast cancer gene
marker.
Also referenced: Scott R. Woodward, non-profit Sorenson Molecular Genealogy
Foundation's chief scientist. His group is compiling a global genetic
database to assist people in finding roots, with the aim of having DNA
samples of 100,000 people within a few years, with a Western European focus;
some 40,000 samples are available now.
When the global database is completed, a person should be able to walk into
an office, provide a DNA sample, and receive a report specifying what
place - perhaps even the town or county, if not a region - the person's
genes are most likely from.

Enjoy the read.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
schelly@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The URL provided in the message will take you to page #2 o the article.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NY Times article on genealogy & genetics #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Dear Genners,

For those interested in the ***non-technical*** aspects and implications of
genealogy and genetics, this very interesting article in today's (July 31)
New York Times discusses the importance of a 1.6 million person Mormon
genealogical database in Utah in tracing genetics, as well as the emergence
of Utah as a base for genetics-focused companies.
http://tinyurl.com/5bydz

Headline: By accident, Utah is proving an ideal genetics laboratory

The story mentions Dr. Mark Skolnick of Myriad Genetic Inc., one of the
biggest companies in the new genetics corridor near the University of Utah.
He was a professor and a pioneer in the discovery of the breast cancer gene
marker.
Also referenced: Scott R. Woodward, non-profit Sorenson Molecular Genealogy
Foundation's chief scientist. His group is compiling a global genetic
database to assist people in finding roots, with the aim of having DNA
samples of 100,000 people within a few years, with a Western European focus;
some 40,000 samples are available now.
When the global database is completed, a person should be able to walk into
an office, provide a DNA sample, and receive a report specifying what
place - perhaps even the town or county, if not a region - the person's
genes are most likely from.

Enjoy the read.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
schelly@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The URL provided in the message will take you to page #2 o the article.


Re: SSDI erroneous information, what to do next ? #general

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Shalom Or,

You are assuming wrongly that your relative died in Florida. The SSDI
listings of "Last Residence" and "Last Benefit" merely indicate that your
relative resided in Florida at the time of death, but she may well have
died in another State while on vacation, on business, etc. The death
certificate would then be submitted by the funeral home in the State where
the event occurred. At the same time, the funeral home would also notify
Social Security. In both cases, the name of the deceased and her Florida
address would appear on the respective documents. A member of our family
was killed in an accident in Pennsylvania and his body was shipped back to
New York for burial. The death certificate was filed in Pennsylvania that
indicated the location where the death occurred, but also included the last
New York residence of the deceased. Hence, the SSDI has New York as the
Last Residence with no further indication that the person died in Pennsylvania.

Three suggestions: Contact a close relative of the deceased who might know
the State where she died, or failing that, contact the cemeteries near her
last residence. They may have records that will help lead you to the
information you are seeking. There is also the possibility as indicated
above that the remains of the deceased was shipped to yet another State
where her spouse (if he died previously) or a prepaid plot for the final
resting place is located near where they used to live in younger days.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC, USA

Shalom,
I tried to obtain a death certificate of a supposedly
relative of mine. The SSDI (in more than one website)
mentioned that the woman died in Florida in 1991. I
ordered the death certificate >from Florida's State
Office of Vital Statistics and since there was only
one woman by that name who died in Florida in 1991 I
didn't write the SS# in the order form. (wrong, I
know).
To my utter surprise and disappointment the death
certificate that came was of another woman, by the
same name but with a different SS# and with a birth
date which was different than the one mentioned in the
SSDI.
So far Florida's State Office of Vital Statistics were
extremely nice and cooperative and they wrote back
that the death certificate of my relative who had the
SS# which appeared in the SSDI cannot be found in
Florida.
Can someone tell me what to do next :
Whom should I apply to find out where can the death
certificate or my relative, the one appearing in the
SSDI, be found ?
[And as a matter of interest : when searching the SSDI
for the SS# of that woman - not my relative- the
result is of her husband only. This was explained by
the fact that since she was a housewife she had her
husband's SS#. Furthermore, she herself cannot be
found in the SSDI when searching by her name and birth
date.]

Every suggestion will be highly appreciated
Thanking you in advance
Or Shani
n. Haifa,Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: SSDI erroneous information, what to do next ? #general

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Shalom Or,

You are assuming wrongly that your relative died in Florida. The SSDI
listings of "Last Residence" and "Last Benefit" merely indicate that your
relative resided in Florida at the time of death, but she may well have
died in another State while on vacation, on business, etc. The death
certificate would then be submitted by the funeral home in the State where
the event occurred. At the same time, the funeral home would also notify
Social Security. In both cases, the name of the deceased and her Florida
address would appear on the respective documents. A member of our family
was killed in an accident in Pennsylvania and his body was shipped back to
New York for burial. The death certificate was filed in Pennsylvania that
indicated the location where the death occurred, but also included the last
New York residence of the deceased. Hence, the SSDI has New York as the
Last Residence with no further indication that the person died in Pennsylvania.

Three suggestions: Contact a close relative of the deceased who might know
the State where she died, or failing that, contact the cemeteries near her
last residence. They may have records that will help lead you to the
information you are seeking. There is also the possibility as indicated
above that the remains of the deceased was shipped to yet another State
where her spouse (if he died previously) or a prepaid plot for the final
resting place is located near where they used to live in younger days.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC, USA

Shalom,
I tried to obtain a death certificate of a supposedly
relative of mine. The SSDI (in more than one website)
mentioned that the woman died in Florida in 1991. I
ordered the death certificate >from Florida's State
Office of Vital Statistics and since there was only
one woman by that name who died in Florida in 1991 I
didn't write the SS# in the order form. (wrong, I
know).
To my utter surprise and disappointment the death
certificate that came was of another woman, by the
same name but with a different SS# and with a birth
date which was different than the one mentioned in the
SSDI.
So far Florida's State Office of Vital Statistics were
extremely nice and cooperative and they wrote back
that the death certificate of my relative who had the
SS# which appeared in the SSDI cannot be found in
Florida.
Can someone tell me what to do next :
Whom should I apply to find out where can the death
certificate or my relative, the one appearing in the
SSDI, be found ?
[And as a matter of interest : when searching the SSDI
for the SS# of that woman - not my relative- the
result is of her husband only. This was explained by
the fact that since she was a housewife she had her
husband's SS#. Furthermore, she herself cannot be
found in the SSDI when searching by her name and birth
date.]

Every suggestion will be highly appreciated
Thanking you in advance
Or Shani
n. Haifa,Israel


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Berezovka - ROTHMAN #ukraine

Flo Elman
 

Would the person who emailed me about Berezovka - ROTHMAN kindly resend
their message? I inadvertently deleted it.

Thank you,
Florence Elman
haflo@...


Berezovka - ROTHMAN #ukraine

Flo Elman
 

Would the person who emailed me about Berezovka - ROTHMAN kindly resend
their message? I inadvertently deleted it.

Thank you,
Florence Elman
haflo@...


FEINERs of Lemberg #galicia

Ed Leek <ed@...>
 

Looking for FEINER researchers focusing on Lemberg (now Lviv).

Ed Leek
Portland, OR 97225
(Private address and phone deleted)


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia FEINERs of Lemberg #galicia

Ed Leek <ed@...>
 

Looking for FEINER researchers focusing on Lemberg (now Lviv).

Ed Leek
Portland, OR 97225
(Private address and phone deleted)


call for assistance #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

The book that I wrote, Finding Your Jewish Roots in Galicia: A Resource
Guide, published by Avotaynu in 1998, is now out of print. At the
conference in Jerusalem, the demand for it suggested that it would make
sense to revise and republish it in paperback form. I have completed much
of the revision, taking out material that was date-sensitive and material
that is available on the Internet and adding more history and contextual
material about laws and regulations that governed the lives of our
ancestors.

I'd like to say much more about the censuses that seem to be popping up in
various archives around Poland but I will need your help. If you know about
census material, please email me privately at srwynne@....

I'm also open to some new travel stories. The ones in the book are still
good but I'd like to add to that chapter.

The guide will not try to duplicate what is in JewishGen but will describe
how to utilize the resources of JewishGen & Routes to Roots.

If you have specific suggestions that bothered you about the first edition
that would make the second edition more useful, please email me.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia call for assistance #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

The book that I wrote, Finding Your Jewish Roots in Galicia: A Resource
Guide, published by Avotaynu in 1998, is now out of print. At the
conference in Jerusalem, the demand for it suggested that it would make
sense to revise and republish it in paperback form. I have completed much
of the revision, taking out material that was date-sensitive and material
that is available on the Internet and adding more history and contextual
material about laws and regulations that governed the lives of our
ancestors.

I'd like to say much more about the censuses that seem to be popping up in
various archives around Poland but I will need your help. If you know about
census material, please email me privately at srwynne@....

I'm also open to some new travel stories. The ones in the book are still
good but I'd like to add to that chapter.

The guide will not try to duplicate what is in JewishGen but will describe
how to utilize the resources of JewishGen & Routes to Roots.

If you have specific suggestions that bothered you about the first edition
that would make the second edition more useful, please email me.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD


Name change #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

Logan's question about a surname change raises several interesting points.
First, the process for changing a name is spelled out in the 1877
regulations governing registration. The next issue of The Galitzianer will,
hopefully, outline the most important of these regulations. The process
could have been carried out at the time of birth by the father going with
two witnesses before the registrar to claim parenthood. When the Austrian
government was in "crack down" mode about these regulations, which happened
periodically, the registrar was under pressure to follow the rules strictly.

It sounds like the father did not show up with witnesses at birth, but may
have done so afterward. Why this child and not the others? So many
possibilities, so little information. Maybe the son was about to emigrate
and needed to clear up the records so that he could leave with the proper
name. Maybe the son wanted to get a business license or attend university
and ran into the same issue. Many bureaucratic issues were tied up with the
issue of legitimacy in Austria.

As Logan knows >from experience, usually the Comments column on the right has
an explanation and some reference numbers when there are witnesses, changes,
etc. so I am guessing that this was not the case here. The other
possibility is that the parents had a civil marriage somewhere else, though
usually, that is referenced in the Comments column.

I know that individuals who wanted to have their surnames changed after the
death of the parent could also bring witnesses, including the mother to the
registrar to assert the father's role. I have a record for one such person.
The Comments simply recorded his appearance, the signature of the witnesses
and the explanation that his father was deceased.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Name change #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

Logan's question about a surname change raises several interesting points.
First, the process for changing a name is spelled out in the 1877
regulations governing registration. The next issue of The Galitzianer will,
hopefully, outline the most important of these regulations. The process
could have been carried out at the time of birth by the father going with
two witnesses before the registrar to claim parenthood. When the Austrian
government was in "crack down" mode about these regulations, which happened
periodically, the registrar was under pressure to follow the rules strictly.

It sounds like the father did not show up with witnesses at birth, but may
have done so afterward. Why this child and not the others? So many
possibilities, so little information. Maybe the son was about to emigrate
and needed to clear up the records so that he could leave with the proper
name. Maybe the son wanted to get a business license or attend university
and ran into the same issue. Many bureaucratic issues were tied up with the
issue of legitimacy in Austria.

As Logan knows >from experience, usually the Comments column on the right has
an explanation and some reference numbers when there are witnesses, changes,
etc. so I am guessing that this was not the case here. The other
possibility is that the parents had a civil marriage somewhere else, though
usually, that is referenced in the Comments column.

I know that individuals who wanted to have their surnames changed after the
death of the parent could also bring witnesses, including the mother to the
registrar to assert the father's role. I have a record for one such person.
The Comments simply recorded his appearance, the signature of the witnesses
and the explanation that his father was deceased.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD


Klasno #galicia

Ginger de Winter <ginger@...>
 

Dear Genners

Many thanks to all who have contributed to my knowledge of the above
town. It's great to fill in the gaps.

Ginger de Winter
London


Re: galicia digest: July 28, 2004 #galicia

Pnina Meislish <pniname@...>
 

Klasno is Wieliczka, 15 km Aw of Krakow. Till the end of WW1 this region
belonged to Austria, and since then - to Poland. The Jewish so called
"traditional" name of all this region was, and still is - Western
Galicia.
If you need more information contact me.
Dr. Pnina Meislish, Jerusalem

(MODERATOR NOTE: End of thread)