Date   

historic trip to Austerlitz/ Slavkov/June 2 #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

I am joining one of the many scroll congregations that I work with in the
USA/UK for a historic trip to Austerlitz/ Slavkov that leaves by bus on
Thursday AM June 2 >from Prague. I have a schedule of events that have
been lovingly planned to celebrate the life of the last survivor in this
town (a lady named Ruth Priess) and the Bat Mitzvah of a young girl >from
the UK (Hana Pike). This will commence on the 5th of June. We will visit
many places in Moravia between the 2nd and the 5th. If anyone >from the
SIG is in the area of Austerlitz on 5th, I would gladly share the agenda
of events I will attending. It will be a very short visit for me --
one week. E-mail me privately for details.

I have one evening in Prague and I would love to put names to
faces of those in the SIG who live in the Prague area. Please e-mail me
if there is an interest for a get together. Our meeting in London in
October was very rewarding.
Thanks
Susan Boyer
Sherman Oaks CA


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech historic trip to Austerlitz/ Slavkov/June 2 #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

I am joining one of the many scroll congregations that I work with in the
USA/UK for a historic trip to Austerlitz/ Slavkov that leaves by bus on
Thursday AM June 2 >from Prague. I have a schedule of events that have
been lovingly planned to celebrate the life of the last survivor in this
town (a lady named Ruth Priess) and the Bat Mitzvah of a young girl >from
the UK (Hana Pike). This will commence on the 5th of June. We will visit
many places in Moravia between the 2nd and the 5th. If anyone >from the
SIG is in the area of Austerlitz on 5th, I would gladly share the agenda
of events I will attending. It will be a very short visit for me --
one week. E-mail me privately for details.

I have one evening in Prague and I would love to put names to
faces of those in the SIG who live in the Prague area. Please e-mail me
if there is an interest for a get together. Our meeting in London in
October was very rewarding.
Thanks
Susan Boyer
Sherman Oaks CA


"Jewish Families in Galicia" - Conversions KAMMERMAN #galicia

Mark Jacobson
 

Hi

I was very interested in Pamela Weisberger's message
about a list of Jews >from Galicia who converted to
Christianity, especially after her message mentioned a
KAMMERMAN family >from Drohobycz, a family and town
very important to me and my research - my KAMERMAN
grandfather's surname and place of birth. I was not
entirely familiar with these particular KAMMERMANs but
checked my printout >from JRI Poland of the index of
Drohobycz records. I was able to find many of these
people in the indexed records. Now seeing the original
pdf file >from Pamela I have been able to do
comparisons and will report my findings. It raises
questions - most importantly why all these people are
on this list, since they were all living (and dying)
as Jews up to at least 1901 and are listed in Jewish
records for Drohobycz, and Manfred Daum's listing of
them has no reference to any Christian records as a
source for conversion information, only the names
Philipp and Mathilde Daum. The father of this
KAMMERMANN family, Moses KAMMERMANN's death is even
listed in the JRI Index, so it is highly unlikely he
ever converted. Here is a comparison of information
from Manfred Daum and information >from JRI Poland and
my conclusions. Mr. Daum lists events that happen to
this family up to 1914 and births before 1877 and
JRI-Poland only has births beginning in 1877 and goes
up to 1901, but there is still much information for
comparison.

“Judische Familien In Galizien” (Jewish Families in
Galicia), >from Manfred Daum contains information on
the family of Moses and Kidel KAMMERMANN from
Ugartsberg, Drohobycz district. It lists:
Moses, died 1896, his wife
Kidel, who it says died in 1914 and was buried in
1896? That must be a typo.
their daughters:
1. unknown female b. 1871
2. Chaje, 1875-1914, married to Rachmil FLACHS with
children:
a. Abraham b. 1890
b. Laja b. 1894
c. Schaindl b. 1897
d. Wilhelmine b. 1898

3. Amalie, 1878-1910 married to Isaak SOBEL with
children:
a. Abraham b. 1900
b. Aaron b. 1902
c. Josef b. 1905
d. Israel b. 1906
e. Henriette b. 1908
It also lists a second marriage for Isaak SOBEL to
Rahel HAFER.
4. Regina, b. 1880, married to Leiser GOLDSTEIN
5. Rebecka, b. 1882, married to Majer POLLAK

It curiously lists all these people as Jews, even the
children of Amalie and Chaje, and Isaak SOBEL's second
wife and the children with her, and I can find no
reference to anyone in this family converting to
Christianity in Manfred Daum's information.

JRI-Poland Drohobycz AGAD records, births 1877-1901,
deaths 1852-1901 (also two listings in Komarno AGAD
death records) has many records for this family.

Records for the family of Moses KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN,
all events listed as taking place in Ugartsberg.

Moses KAMERMANN son of Leib Wolf and Ruchel Laja, died
in 1899 at age 68. There is no evidence here that
Moses converted, and if his death is listed here he
must have been buried in the Jewish cemetery.

Moses KAMERMAN and Gittel SCHEININGER had three
children born in the timeframe of the index (plus one
more >from death records):
Leib 1877-1879 (listed in Komarno town deaths)
Malke b. 1879
Henie b. 1882 (1895 death listed in Komarno town
deaths)
Rebeka b. 1885

Only daughters Chaje and Malke were married and had
children in the timeframe of the index, but they
basically match the names and information in Daum's
report, and all are Jews, listed in the Jewish records
of Drohobycz.

Rachmiel FLAKS and Chaje KAMERMAN in Ugartsberg, had
children listed:
Abraham Seinwel b. 1892
Lajcia b. 1894
Jozef b. 1896
Scheindel Rifke b. 1897
Moses b. 1899, died 1900
Sara Mina (not Wilhelmine as per Mr. Daum, although
that might be a clue to a later conversion?) b. 1901

Izak SOBEL and Malke KAMERMAN in Ugartsberg, had 1
child listed:
Abraham Samuel b. 1900

At this point in my research I have not made a
connection between my KAMERMAN family and this
particular KAMERMAN family, but I do not doubt there
is some connection - the families lived nearby and
shared a surname which primarily exists only around
Drohobycz/Boryslaw, nearby Sambor, and Przemysl. This
project has peaked my interest in this family. I have
traced my KAMERMAN line in Drohobycz back to my
grandfather's g-g-grandfather, Ichel KAMERMAN, who
lived sometime in the late 1700's to early 1800's,
having two known children around 1800.

As you see, vital events for this family of Moses
KAMERMAN occur in Jewish records up to the end of the
index in 1901, KAMERMANs born and dying as Jews in the
town of Ugartsberg, Drohobycz, Galicia, following
traditional naming patterns, and at least up to 1901
showing no evidence of conversion. I hope Mr. Daum can
explain these people being on his list as converts. I
suspect Mr. Daum is related to this family through a
branch that converted at some point, but that point is
definitely after 1901, definitely after the death of
the patriarch Moses and two documented marriages,
probably after all 4 listed marriages based on the
names supplied by Mr. Daum, so I question why these
people are all listed in this document. If anyone has
any insight into the particulars of this family please
let me know. Even without a direct connection to this
family, I feel a need to show that at least most of
this family were not converts, they were a Jewish
family and probably lived and died as Jews in Galicia,
the same as many of our families did. The presence of
so many KAMMERMANs on this list of converts gives the
mistaken impression that they were a significant part
of converted Jews in Galicia, but I have found through
JRI indexed Jewish records and close examination of
Mr. Daum's document that all KAMERMANs listed in this
document connect to the same family of Moses and
Gittel in Ugartsberg and many, if not all, the people
listed did not convert to Christianity, remaining
Jews. I hope Mr. Daum's document does not spread false
impressions of who converted to Christianity, similar
to the controversy over Mormon baptisms of Holocaust
victims etc. I also hope I have at least brought up
some questions that need to be answered about this
family, and perhaps other families listed as converts.

Mark Jacobson
Boca Raton, FL





DOGULOV/DOVGALEVSKY - Belaya Tserkov/Kiev Ukraine;
COHEN/KANA/KAHAN - Belaya Tserkov, Ukraine;
JACOBSON - Polotsk, Belarus; COBLENTZ - Polotsk, Belarus;
KAMERMAN - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia; ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia; GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia "Jewish Families in Galicia" - Conversions KAMMERMAN #galicia

Mark Jacobson
 

Hi

I was very interested in Pamela Weisberger's message
about a list of Jews >from Galicia who converted to
Christianity, especially after her message mentioned a
KAMMERMAN family >from Drohobycz, a family and town
very important to me and my research - my KAMERMAN
grandfather's surname and place of birth. I was not
entirely familiar with these particular KAMMERMANs but
checked my printout >from JRI Poland of the index of
Drohobycz records. I was able to find many of these
people in the indexed records. Now seeing the original
pdf file >from Pamela I have been able to do
comparisons and will report my findings. It raises
questions - most importantly why all these people are
on this list, since they were all living (and dying)
as Jews up to at least 1901 and are listed in Jewish
records for Drohobycz, and Manfred Daum's listing of
them has no reference to any Christian records as a
source for conversion information, only the names
Philipp and Mathilde Daum. The father of this
KAMMERMANN family, Moses KAMMERMANN's death is even
listed in the JRI Index, so it is highly unlikely he
ever converted. Here is a comparison of information
from Manfred Daum and information >from JRI Poland and
my conclusions. Mr. Daum lists events that happen to
this family up to 1914 and births before 1877 and
JRI-Poland only has births beginning in 1877 and goes
up to 1901, but there is still much information for
comparison.

“Judische Familien In Galizien” (Jewish Families in
Galicia), >from Manfred Daum contains information on
the family of Moses and Kidel KAMMERMANN from
Ugartsberg, Drohobycz district. It lists:
Moses, died 1896, his wife
Kidel, who it says died in 1914 and was buried in
1896? That must be a typo.
their daughters:
1. unknown female b. 1871
2. Chaje, 1875-1914, married to Rachmil FLACHS with
children:
a. Abraham b. 1890
b. Laja b. 1894
c. Schaindl b. 1897
d. Wilhelmine b. 1898

3. Amalie, 1878-1910 married to Isaak SOBEL with
children:
a. Abraham b. 1900
b. Aaron b. 1902
c. Josef b. 1905
d. Israel b. 1906
e. Henriette b. 1908
It also lists a second marriage for Isaak SOBEL to
Rahel HAFER.
4. Regina, b. 1880, married to Leiser GOLDSTEIN
5. Rebecka, b. 1882, married to Majer POLLAK

It curiously lists all these people as Jews, even the
children of Amalie and Chaje, and Isaak SOBEL's second
wife and the children with her, and I can find no
reference to anyone in this family converting to
Christianity in Manfred Daum's information.

JRI-Poland Drohobycz AGAD records, births 1877-1901,
deaths 1852-1901 (also two listings in Komarno AGAD
death records) has many records for this family.

Records for the family of Moses KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN,
all events listed as taking place in Ugartsberg.

Moses KAMERMANN son of Leib Wolf and Ruchel Laja, died
in 1899 at age 68. There is no evidence here that
Moses converted, and if his death is listed here he
must have been buried in the Jewish cemetery.

Moses KAMERMAN and Gittel SCHEININGER had three
children born in the timeframe of the index (plus one
more >from death records):
Leib 1877-1879 (listed in Komarno town deaths)
Malke b. 1879
Henie b. 1882 (1895 death listed in Komarno town
deaths)
Rebeka b. 1885

Only daughters Chaje and Malke were married and had
children in the timeframe of the index, but they
basically match the names and information in Daum's
report, and all are Jews, listed in the Jewish records
of Drohobycz.

Rachmiel FLAKS and Chaje KAMERMAN in Ugartsberg, had
children listed:
Abraham Seinwel b. 1892
Lajcia b. 1894
Jozef b. 1896
Scheindel Rifke b. 1897
Moses b. 1899, died 1900
Sara Mina (not Wilhelmine as per Mr. Daum, although
that might be a clue to a later conversion?) b. 1901

Izak SOBEL and Malke KAMERMAN in Ugartsberg, had 1
child listed:
Abraham Samuel b. 1900

At this point in my research I have not made a
connection between my KAMERMAN family and this
particular KAMERMAN family, but I do not doubt there
is some connection - the families lived nearby and
shared a surname which primarily exists only around
Drohobycz/Boryslaw, nearby Sambor, and Przemysl. This
project has peaked my interest in this family. I have
traced my KAMERMAN line in Drohobycz back to my
grandfather's g-g-grandfather, Ichel KAMERMAN, who
lived sometime in the late 1700's to early 1800's,
having two known children around 1800.

As you see, vital events for this family of Moses
KAMERMAN occur in Jewish records up to the end of the
index in 1901, KAMERMANs born and dying as Jews in the
town of Ugartsberg, Drohobycz, Galicia, following
traditional naming patterns, and at least up to 1901
showing no evidence of conversion. I hope Mr. Daum can
explain these people being on his list as converts. I
suspect Mr. Daum is related to this family through a
branch that converted at some point, but that point is
definitely after 1901, definitely after the death of
the patriarch Moses and two documented marriages,
probably after all 4 listed marriages based on the
names supplied by Mr. Daum, so I question why these
people are all listed in this document. If anyone has
any insight into the particulars of this family please
let me know. Even without a direct connection to this
family, I feel a need to show that at least most of
this family were not converts, they were a Jewish
family and probably lived and died as Jews in Galicia,
the same as many of our families did. The presence of
so many KAMMERMANs on this list of converts gives the
mistaken impression that they were a significant part
of converted Jews in Galicia, but I have found through
JRI indexed Jewish records and close examination of
Mr. Daum's document that all KAMERMANs listed in this
document connect to the same family of Moses and
Gittel in Ugartsberg and many, if not all, the people
listed did not convert to Christianity, remaining
Jews. I hope Mr. Daum's document does not spread false
impressions of who converted to Christianity, similar
to the controversy over Mormon baptisms of Holocaust
victims etc. I also hope I have at least brought up
some questions that need to be answered about this
family, and perhaps other families listed as converts.

Mark Jacobson
Boca Raton, FL





DOGULOV/DOVGALEVSKY - Belaya Tserkov/Kiev Ukraine;
COHEN/KANA/KAHAN - Belaya Tserkov, Ukraine;
JACOBSON - Polotsk, Belarus; COBLENTZ - Polotsk, Belarus;
KAMERMAN - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia; ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia; GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia


"Jewish Families in Galicia" - Conversions/KAMMERMAN #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Regarding Mark Jacobson's analaysis of the Kammerman records in “Judische
Familien In Galizien” (Jewish Families in Galicia) and his wondering:

"...why all these people are on this list, since they were all living (and
dying) as Jews up to at least 1901 and are listed in Jewish records for
Drohobycz, and Manfred Daum's listing of them has no reference to any
Christian records as a source for conversion information.>>

He makes special mention of MOSES KAMMERMAN, his wife, KIDEL, married in
1870, living in House Number 22 in Ugartsberg (Wypucki), Galicia and their
children:

1. unknown female b. 1871
2. Chaje, 1875-1914, married to Rachmil FLACHS with children:
3. Amalie, 1878-1910 m. Isaak Sobel in 1900 (5 children), Sobel remarried
Rahel Hafer
4. Regina b. 1880 m. Leiser Goldstein
5. Rebecka b. 1882 m. Maier Pollak in 1900

....as they are listed in this document. No reference is made as to their
having converted >from Judaism, and he is perplexed by their appearance. I
think I have a solution to his mystery. If one checks the Daum's index,
there is another entry for the name KAMMERMAN:

JOHANN SANTRUCKET, Reformed Church (Protestant) born in 1870:

Place/Occupation: In 1895 leased a restaurant in Manater Letnianski/Galicia.
In 1896 and 1897 he was a teacher in Ugartsberg (Wypucki) in house Number
23.

Illigitmate Connection to: Female (name unknown) KAMMERMAN, born in 1871 in
Ugartsberg (Wypucki)

Comments: Later, Johann Santrucek ran off with the daughter of Moses
Kammerman and they never came back.

Sources: >from the book of Galician Mennonites in charge of record keeping
at that time. >from the town of Josefsberg (today Korosnica) : Parish
Register of Christenings-Evangelical Reformed Church, Ugartsberg: Parish
Register-Evangelical Reformed Church, and personal recollections by
Mathilde Daum (nee Jacobi) and Phillip Daum.

This unidentified (no given name) daughter of Moses Kammerman, is the same
one listed in the Kammerman Family entry cited by Mark. One can clearly
draw the conclusion that Johann Santrucek employed as a teacher in House
Number 22 became acquainted with Ms. Kammerman, living next door (across the
road?) in House Number 23 (both in their early 20s), that this acquaintance
lead to a relationship, and the two ran off together, hence the notation of
an "illigitemate relationship."

This is not an unfamiliar set of events, and we hear so many stories of
children in similar circumstance becoming "dead" to their families, that
this might have been the case of this daughter.

Therefore, we need to bear in mind that not Jewish person who is named in
this file represents someone who converted >from Judaism. In the case of the
Family Kammerman, they are apparently descendants of someone who is
referred to in a church record, through anecdotal information, or both.
There are Christians today who discover that they have Jewish roots, so
their family trees, if accurate, will show records of entire Jewish
families. I believe this is the case with the listing for the family of
Moses Kammerman and his five children.

In fact, Mr. Daum has created a family tree for the entire Jewish family of
Kammermans, as a result of several church record notations dealing with the
oldest Kammerman daughter who ran away with a non-Jewish man. He lists the
husbands of all of Moses Kammerman's daughters, many of his grandchildren,
and even the second wife of one these husbands. No doubt, he is connected
to this family.

This is a cautionary lesson in not jumping to conclusions until we have all
the evidence. What would we think if we mailed one of our family trees to a
non-Jew who was connected to us? Would they be shocked and dismayed to
discover that they were connected to Jewish relatives? Would they accuse us
of trying to make them Jews? As distasteful as it may be to some people,
accuracy should trump concerns every time. To equate this list to the
Mormon's baptisms of Jews does Mr. Daum a disservice.

When Mark asks:

<<The presence of so many KAMMERMANs on this list of converts gives the
mistaken impression that they were a significant part of converted Jews in
Galicia.>>

Again I must emphasize that this is not "a list of converts," not should it
be portrayed as such. The title is "Jewish Families in Galicia"---not
"Converted Jewish Families." If I gave that impression in my first posting,
I'd like to correct that now. What this file DOES represent is either
appearances of Jewish names in church records, in personal recollections, or
both. Some definitely ARE conversions, but others are simply family trees
of Jews who remained Jews, but were connected, in some way, to Christians,
either through conversion or marriage.

Based on the detailed notations in this file, I am convinced that Manfred
Daum has thoroughly documented his findings. It is up to us to decipher
them and--because this is written in German--get complete and accurate
translations of ALL the notes, before figuring out why certain Jewish
families (those who did not actually convert) make appearances on this list.
For people who have come upon dead ends in their research, these records
might provide the answers.

Also keep in mind...Daum did not go through every parish register in
Galicia. This file reminds us that looking through church records, many of
which have been microfilmed by the Mormons, while a longshot, might provide
some unexpected information.

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia "Jewish Families in Galicia" - Conversions/KAMMERMAN #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Regarding Mark Jacobson's analaysis of the Kammerman records in “Judische
Familien In Galizien” (Jewish Families in Galicia) and his wondering:

"...why all these people are on this list, since they were all living (and
dying) as Jews up to at least 1901 and are listed in Jewish records for
Drohobycz, and Manfred Daum's listing of them has no reference to any
Christian records as a source for conversion information.>>

He makes special mention of MOSES KAMMERMAN, his wife, KIDEL, married in
1870, living in House Number 22 in Ugartsberg (Wypucki), Galicia and their
children:

1. unknown female b. 1871
2. Chaje, 1875-1914, married to Rachmil FLACHS with children:
3. Amalie, 1878-1910 m. Isaak Sobel in 1900 (5 children), Sobel remarried
Rahel Hafer
4. Regina b. 1880 m. Leiser Goldstein
5. Rebecka b. 1882 m. Maier Pollak in 1900

....as they are listed in this document. No reference is made as to their
having converted >from Judaism, and he is perplexed by their appearance. I
think I have a solution to his mystery. If one checks the Daum's index,
there is another entry for the name KAMMERMAN:

JOHANN SANTRUCKET, Reformed Church (Protestant) born in 1870:

Place/Occupation: In 1895 leased a restaurant in Manater Letnianski/Galicia.
In 1896 and 1897 he was a teacher in Ugartsberg (Wypucki) in house Number
23.

Illigitmate Connection to: Female (name unknown) KAMMERMAN, born in 1871 in
Ugartsberg (Wypucki)

Comments: Later, Johann Santrucek ran off with the daughter of Moses
Kammerman and they never came back.

Sources: >from the book of Galician Mennonites in charge of record keeping
at that time. >from the town of Josefsberg (today Korosnica) : Parish
Register of Christenings-Evangelical Reformed Church, Ugartsberg: Parish
Register-Evangelical Reformed Church, and personal recollections by
Mathilde Daum (nee Jacobi) and Phillip Daum.

This unidentified (no given name) daughter of Moses Kammerman, is the same
one listed in the Kammerman Family entry cited by Mark. One can clearly
draw the conclusion that Johann Santrucek employed as a teacher in House
Number 22 became acquainted with Ms. Kammerman, living next door (across the
road?) in House Number 23 (both in their early 20s), that this acquaintance
lead to a relationship, and the two ran off together, hence the notation of
an "illigitemate relationship."

This is not an unfamiliar set of events, and we hear so many stories of
children in similar circumstance becoming "dead" to their families, that
this might have been the case of this daughter.

Therefore, we need to bear in mind that not Jewish person who is named in
this file represents someone who converted >from Judaism. In the case of the
Family Kammerman, they are apparently descendants of someone who is
referred to in a church record, through anecdotal information, or both.
There are Christians today who discover that they have Jewish roots, so
their family trees, if accurate, will show records of entire Jewish
families. I believe this is the case with the listing for the family of
Moses Kammerman and his five children.

In fact, Mr. Daum has created a family tree for the entire Jewish family of
Kammermans, as a result of several church record notations dealing with the
oldest Kammerman daughter who ran away with a non-Jewish man. He lists the
husbands of all of Moses Kammerman's daughters, many of his grandchildren,
and even the second wife of one these husbands. No doubt, he is connected
to this family.

This is a cautionary lesson in not jumping to conclusions until we have all
the evidence. What would we think if we mailed one of our family trees to a
non-Jew who was connected to us? Would they be shocked and dismayed to
discover that they were connected to Jewish relatives? Would they accuse us
of trying to make them Jews? As distasteful as it may be to some people,
accuracy should trump concerns every time. To equate this list to the
Mormon's baptisms of Jews does Mr. Daum a disservice.

When Mark asks:

<<The presence of so many KAMMERMANs on this list of converts gives the
mistaken impression that they were a significant part of converted Jews in
Galicia.>>

Again I must emphasize that this is not "a list of converts," not should it
be portrayed as such. The title is "Jewish Families in Galicia"---not
"Converted Jewish Families." If I gave that impression in my first posting,
I'd like to correct that now. What this file DOES represent is either
appearances of Jewish names in church records, in personal recollections, or
both. Some definitely ARE conversions, but others are simply family trees
of Jews who remained Jews, but were connected, in some way, to Christians,
either through conversion or marriage.

Based on the detailed notations in this file, I am convinced that Manfred
Daum has thoroughly documented his findings. It is up to us to decipher
them and--because this is written in German--get complete and accurate
translations of ALL the notes, before figuring out why certain Jewish
families (those who did not actually convert) make appearances on this list.
For people who have come upon dead ends in their research, these records
might provide the answers.

Also keep in mind...Daum did not go through every parish register in
Galicia. This file reminds us that looking through church records, many of
which have been microfilmed by the Mormons, while a longshot, might provide
some unexpected information.

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Sokal, Ukraine. #galicia

Gabriela Khoury <gabriela_k25@...>
 

Dear All,

Would anyone be able to tell me if there is a special interest group or a
specific website on the town Sokal in the Ukraine.

If you have any information on this town could you please email me on
gabriela_k25@hotmail.com

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Thank you,

Gabriela Khoury.


Researching-
Wielkie Oczy: WOLFUSS, WOLFUS.
Sokal: WOLFUSS, WOLFUS.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Sokal, Ukraine. #galicia

Gabriela Khoury <gabriela_k25@...>
 

Dear All,

Would anyone be able to tell me if there is a special interest group or a
specific website on the town Sokal in the Ukraine.

If you have any information on this town could you please email me on
gabriela_k25@hotmail.com

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Thank you,

Gabriela Khoury.


Researching-
Wielkie Oczy: WOLFUSS, WOLFUS.
Sokal: WOLFUSS, WOLFUS.


tombstone translation to English request #general

Dottie Miller
 

I am hot on the trail of finding a missing link in between 2 branches of
my GUGENHEIMER family >from Ihringen. The link probably is in the
tombstone inscription of which I have a very clear photo. The photo is
so clear because the resolution is 92 pixels rather than the 45 that
would make it work on Viewmate. Can someone please volunteer to
translate it into English? I can easily e-mail it to you and/or send it
by snail mail.

Thank you in advance for your response!

Dottie Miller
San Antonio, TX USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen tombstone translation to English request #general

Dottie Miller
 

I am hot on the trail of finding a missing link in between 2 branches of
my GUGENHEIMER family >from Ihringen. The link probably is in the
tombstone inscription of which I have a very clear photo. The photo is
so clear because the resolution is 92 pixels rather than the 45 that
would make it work on Viewmate. Can someone please volunteer to
translate it into English? I can easily e-mail it to you and/or send it
by snail mail.

Thank you in advance for your response!

Dottie Miller
San Antonio, TX USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


Thanking those who help -- know how to use your spam filter! #general

nitram <martin@...>
 

Based on the thread that is going about not being thankful, I want to
say I am sorry to anyone that I did not reply to. Let me explain what
happened to me and I assume that it may have happened to others.

When I first found this site about a month ago, I saw all the questions
posted and very few replies online. I assumed it was a waste of time.
I did not realize that people responded personally and that it would
not show up online.

I made my first post and I could not believe all the people that
responded. I was so excited to check my mail and see your replies
waiting for me. I always thanked everyone - whether the information
was useful or not.

So, who did I not reply to? All of you that were filtered by my email
spam filter! I never saw your replies. My spam filter was set up (1)
to delete all messages not >from the United States. An obvious mistake
if you are on this board, (2) to delete any messages that were >from a
web account unless you were specifically on my "friends" list, such as
@yahoo.com and @msn.com. (3) Some end up in my delete box and I have
no idea why - even if you sent me something before.

The second problem I had was that my delete box was set up to empty
when I closed my email. So, once I realized that some responses were
going there, it was too late. Your replies were gone.

Overall, this site is wonderful and I am hoping that people will not
take it personally if I didn't respond. As someone else said, it is
probably the newbies (even newer than me) that don't reply. I am
wondering how many don't even no how to use their spam filters?

Thanks to everyone;

Martin Kleiner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Thanking those who help -- know how to use your spam filter! #general

nitram <martin@...>
 

Based on the thread that is going about not being thankful, I want to
say I am sorry to anyone that I did not reply to. Let me explain what
happened to me and I assume that it may have happened to others.

When I first found this site about a month ago, I saw all the questions
posted and very few replies online. I assumed it was a waste of time.
I did not realize that people responded personally and that it would
not show up online.

I made my first post and I could not believe all the people that
responded. I was so excited to check my mail and see your replies
waiting for me. I always thanked everyone - whether the information
was useful or not.

So, who did I not reply to? All of you that were filtered by my email
spam filter! I never saw your replies. My spam filter was set up (1)
to delete all messages not >from the United States. An obvious mistake
if you are on this board, (2) to delete any messages that were >from a
web account unless you were specifically on my "friends" list, such as
@yahoo.com and @msn.com. (3) Some end up in my delete box and I have
no idea why - even if you sent me something before.

The second problem I had was that my delete box was set up to empty
when I closed my email. So, once I realized that some responses were
going there, it was too late. Your replies were gone.

Overall, this site is wonderful and I am hoping that people will not
take it personally if I didn't respond. As someone else said, it is
probably the newbies (even newer than me) that don't reply. I am
wondering how many don't even no how to use their spam filters?

Thanks to everyone;

Martin Kleiner


Where would records from Szirak, Nograd be found? #hungary

Beth Galleto
 

Does anyone know in what archive a person could find birth records for
Szirak, in the county of Nograd, for the period of about 1885 to 1900?
I am aware that there is one film set of records in the LDS library that
is supposed to be Jewish records >from 1850 to 1895 for Szirak, but I
have looked at those films and I did not find the records I was looking
for.
A cousin is going to Hungary and if we can find out where the correct
archive is he will search for birth records for our grandmother and her
siblings.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. This is my first posting
to this list.
Beth Galleto
Greenbrae, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Where would records from Szirak, Nograd be found? #hungary

Beth Galleto
 

Does anyone know in what archive a person could find birth records for
Szirak, in the county of Nograd, for the period of about 1885 to 1900?
I am aware that there is one film set of records in the LDS library that
is supposed to be Jewish records >from 1850 to 1895 for Szirak, but I
have looked at those films and I did not find the records I was looking
for.
A cousin is going to Hungary and if we can find out where the correct
archive is he will search for birth records for our grandmother and her
siblings.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. This is my first posting
to this list.
Beth Galleto
Greenbrae, CA


Re: Stropkov #hungary

Hallie Feldman
 

Hello Sandor, Melody, Touvia -

I'm wondering if part of the mystery about the Abraham Chaim Schonfelds
is that maybe there was one Abraham Chaim Schonfeld in Stropkov, and
another in Orlik?

>from Teddy Goldstein's tree I have that an Abraham Chaim Schonfeld
married Leah Kreindl Goldstein. Their daughter was Hannah Mindl
Schonfeld, my greatgrandmother. Teddy you sent me this tree in 1991.
While you don't have Abraham Chaim Schonfeld's place of birth on this
tree, Hannah Schonfeld and her mother Leah were born in Orlik.

I don't have a date of birth either for the Abraham Chaim Schonfeld or
for Leah, although Leah would have been born betw 1844 and 1849. Hannah
Schonfeld was born 1864 in Orlik.

Hannah also had a brother Moishe Schonfeld, again I don't see any
birthdate for him but judging by the rest of this tree he would be born
betw 1866 and 1873. This is the Moishe Schonfeld who married Dvora
Weil. Is he the Rabbi Moishe of Likev or another Moishe Schonfeld?

Thanks,
Hallie Berliner Feldman




Bacskai Sándor wrote:

Dear Melody Amsel,

I hope it will help you that the Stropkov-born Salamon Amsel was the
sochet in Senyo and later in Nyirbogdany (both are in Szabolcs County,
Hungary). His wife Hani Schonfeld was born in Mezolaborc.
Their children: Ignatz Amsel (1867 in Senyo), Gizella (1886 in
Nyirbogdany), and Samu (1892 in Nyirbogdany).

I don't know whether Salamon Amsel was related or not to Rabbi
Yitzchak Zvi Amsel of Zborov/Stropkov.

Regards,
Sandor Bacskai
Budapest, Hungary


Subject: Schonfelds of Stropkov
From: Melody Amsel-Arieli <nomietai@yahoo.com>

My great-grandfather, Avraham Chaim Schonfeld, was the leader of the
Stropkov Jewish community
in the late 1800s. Other than this, I know nothing about him, nor
have I seen the name Schonfeld before or after in all my Stropkov
research. However,I do have two slim clues that, hopefully, ring a
bell....

Can anyone help?
Thanks, Melody


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Stropkov #hungary

Hallie Feldman
 

Hello Sandor, Melody, Touvia -

I'm wondering if part of the mystery about the Abraham Chaim Schonfelds
is that maybe there was one Abraham Chaim Schonfeld in Stropkov, and
another in Orlik?

>from Teddy Goldstein's tree I have that an Abraham Chaim Schonfeld
married Leah Kreindl Goldstein. Their daughter was Hannah Mindl
Schonfeld, my greatgrandmother. Teddy you sent me this tree in 1991.
While you don't have Abraham Chaim Schonfeld's place of birth on this
tree, Hannah Schonfeld and her mother Leah were born in Orlik.

I don't have a date of birth either for the Abraham Chaim Schonfeld or
for Leah, although Leah would have been born betw 1844 and 1849. Hannah
Schonfeld was born 1864 in Orlik.

Hannah also had a brother Moishe Schonfeld, again I don't see any
birthdate for him but judging by the rest of this tree he would be born
betw 1866 and 1873. This is the Moishe Schonfeld who married Dvora
Weil. Is he the Rabbi Moishe of Likev or another Moishe Schonfeld?

Thanks,
Hallie Berliner Feldman




Bacskai Sándor wrote:

Dear Melody Amsel,

I hope it will help you that the Stropkov-born Salamon Amsel was the
sochet in Senyo and later in Nyirbogdany (both are in Szabolcs County,
Hungary). His wife Hani Schonfeld was born in Mezolaborc.
Their children: Ignatz Amsel (1867 in Senyo), Gizella (1886 in
Nyirbogdany), and Samu (1892 in Nyirbogdany).

I don't know whether Salamon Amsel was related or not to Rabbi
Yitzchak Zvi Amsel of Zborov/Stropkov.

Regards,
Sandor Bacskai
Budapest, Hungary


Subject: Schonfelds of Stropkov
From: Melody Amsel-Arieli <nomietai@yahoo.com>

My great-grandfather, Avraham Chaim Schonfeld, was the leader of the
Stropkov Jewish community
in the late 1800s. Other than this, I know nothing about him, nor
have I seen the name Schonfeld before or after in all my Stropkov
research. However,I do have two slim clues that, hopefully, ring a
bell....

Can anyone help?
Thanks, Melody


How to work the Hamburg Lists #general

Susan Meehan <smeehan@...>
 

I'm glad to learn I wasn't the only one who found the Hamburg lists
directions daunting! I've had a great many messages >from JewishGen
members who also had trouble.

The trick is to be as simple as possible; just use the last name, or a
combination of the last name and first name. Nothing else!! That
works! (Do keep in mind that the spelling of your family member may
have changed, so make allowances for that.)

BTW, I'm not counting on the passenger number system used by Hamburg to
be any help to me. I checked the microfilms of many vessels at
[name of commercial site deleted --Mod.] (for which you have to pay),
and found that Hamburg had superimposed its own numbering system. Too
bad -- it seemed like a good possibility.

Best of luck to all -

Susan Bergman Meehan
Washington, DC


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen How to work the Hamburg Lists #general

Susan Meehan <smeehan@...>
 

I'm glad to learn I wasn't the only one who found the Hamburg lists
directions daunting! I've had a great many messages >from JewishGen
members who also had trouble.

The trick is to be as simple as possible; just use the last name, or a
combination of the last name and first name. Nothing else!! That
works! (Do keep in mind that the spelling of your family member may
have changed, so make allowances for that.)

BTW, I'm not counting on the passenger number system used by Hamburg to
be any help to me. I checked the microfilms of many vessels at
[name of commercial site deleted --Mod.] (for which you have to pay),
and found that Hamburg had superimposed its own numbering system. Too
bad -- it seemed like a good possibility.

Best of luck to all -

Susan Bergman Meehan
Washington, DC


Re: The lack of common courtesy #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

Answering Dave Schwartz, about his complaint dated 19 May 2005, I
want to say that I have answered around 300 questions here since
exactly ten years (also some others on the French SIG and also on the
French Cercle de Genealogie Juive website). I always received thanks
and in two or three opportunities it led me to a real friendship with
the people I helped. Yes, indeed, it's not friendly (and not polite)
not to take the time to say "thank you", but it doesn't matter and
it's not useful to bother about such rude people. As far as I'm
concerned, I don't help with the aim of receiving thanks, but just
because I love to help. If I receive thanks, it's ok. If not, I don't
mind. Let's just avoid to help them next time !
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The lack of common courtesy #general

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

Answering Dave Schwartz, about his complaint dated 19 May 2005, I
want to say that I have answered around 300 questions here since
exactly ten years (also some others on the French SIG and also on the
French Cercle de Genealogie Juive website). I always received thanks
and in two or three opportunities it led me to a real friendship with
the people I helped. Yes, indeed, it's not friendly (and not polite)
not to take the time to say "thank you", but it doesn't matter and
it's not useful to bother about such rude people. As far as I'm
concerned, I don't help with the aim of receiving thanks, but just
because I love to help. If I receive thanks, it's ok. If not, I don't
mind. Let's just avoid to help them next time !
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org