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Re: Unusual Hebrew words on tombstone - esteemed virgin? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Stan Goodman wrote:

As for the second word, your vowelling isn't right , let alone the
transliteration. Try heH.ashuvah. "Esteemed" is a good equivalent.
Actually Stan's vowelling is equally incorrect! While it is true
that the masculine form is indeed vocalized as he-hashu (for complex
technical reasons i won't go into here) , the vowel under the
definite article when placed before the feminine form is actually a
hataf-patah, hence the correct transliteration is ha-hashuvah.
(Again, sorry I can't underdot the het!).]

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unusual Hebrew words on tombstone - esteemed virgin? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Stan Goodman wrote:

As for the second word, your vowelling isn't right , let alone the
transliteration. Try heH.ashuvah. "Esteemed" is a good equivalent.
Actually Stan's vowelling is equally incorrect! While it is true
that the masculine form is indeed vocalized as he-hashu (for complex
technical reasons i won't go into here) , the vowel under the
definite article when placed before the feminine form is actually a
hataf-patah, hence the correct transliteration is ha-hashuvah.
(Again, sorry I can't underdot the het!).]

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu
The origins of my KATZ family #general

Marlene <mlbishow@...>
 

Since early on in my genealogical research, I was told that KATZ meant cohen
tzadik (righteous cohen). My grandfather, Shimon KATZ, fiercely denied that
he was a cohen, as did his cousins, all descendents of Aaron KATZ (b. circa
1840). IIn fact, every time there is a life cycle event in my family, thsi
question arises.

So the question that I puzzle is what was the origin of this familiy's
name -did they just "foget" that they were cohen. I would have cast aside
Alexander Sharon's theory that the name is Sephardic, except that I had my
father genetically tested several years ago and they found that he varies
>from the cohen model and he also has a very rare genetic pattern which
indicates more direct African origins - hence, they may well have been
Sephardic, even if KATZ was not their original name. There are no traces of
Sephardic customs in their practices, but then again, that could have been
the influence of their marriage to wives whose families were of Ashkanazi
origin. >from family lore I learned that when my great-grandfather, a
traveling wine and liquor salesman traveled, his route included parts of
Romania, where he stayed with relatives. >from the history of Zuravno (Galicia),
I have learned that in 1676, during the Turkish and Tartar Wars, the Battle of
Zurawno was fought for three weeks in late September through mid October.
Could my ancestors have arrived as a result of this war?

The fact that Alexander Sharon references a source stating that Sephardic
KATZ families as having been in the area of Stryy (close to Zhurawno) since
the late 15th century, just adds more basis for my quest and questions. I
have not had any luck with JRI Poland records and other sources for Zurawno.
the records for this area simply did not survive the wars. There is no
dedicated Yiskor book and I do not speak or read any of the native languages
to facilitate reading other sources in their original form.

Regards,
Marlene KATZ BISHOW
Rockville, MD
VP, Jewish Genealogy Society of Greater Washington
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The origins of my KATZ family #general

Marlene <mlbishow@...>
 

Since early on in my genealogical research, I was told that KATZ meant cohen
tzadik (righteous cohen). My grandfather, Shimon KATZ, fiercely denied that
he was a cohen, as did his cousins, all descendents of Aaron KATZ (b. circa
1840). IIn fact, every time there is a life cycle event in my family, thsi
question arises.

So the question that I puzzle is what was the origin of this familiy's
name -did they just "foget" that they were cohen. I would have cast aside
Alexander Sharon's theory that the name is Sephardic, except that I had my
father genetically tested several years ago and they found that he varies
>from the cohen model and he also has a very rare genetic pattern which
indicates more direct African origins - hence, they may well have been
Sephardic, even if KATZ was not their original name. There are no traces of
Sephardic customs in their practices, but then again, that could have been
the influence of their marriage to wives whose families were of Ashkanazi
origin. >from family lore I learned that when my great-grandfather, a
traveling wine and liquor salesman traveled, his route included parts of
Romania, where he stayed with relatives. >from the history of Zuravno (Galicia),
I have learned that in 1676, during the Turkish and Tartar Wars, the Battle of
Zurawno was fought for three weeks in late September through mid October.
Could my ancestors have arrived as a result of this war?

The fact that Alexander Sharon references a source stating that Sephardic
KATZ families as having been in the area of Stryy (close to Zhurawno) since
the late 15th century, just adds more basis for my quest and questions. I
have not had any luck with JRI Poland records and other sources for Zurawno.
the records for this area simply did not survive the wars. There is no
dedicated Yiskor book and I do not speak or read any of the native languages
to facilitate reading other sources in their original form.

Regards,
Marlene KATZ BISHOW
Rockville, MD
VP, Jewish Genealogy Society of Greater Washington
Re: S.S. Siberia Maru #general

Leslie Weinberg <artsoul@...>
 

My late father-in-law arried in Seattle at the beginning of 1917 on the
Canada Maru. He went >from Latvia along the same route. He left Latvia
in late 1916 and arrived in either Jan or Feb of 1917. I would have to
look at the papers again to give an exact date. Does this help? I have
his papers showing the name of the ship. I am not sure whether it docked
in Seattle first or in Canada first. Leslie Weinberg

Ruth Hyman wrote:

Sylvia,
I was interested in your message because my maternal grandmother
(along with my mother and her sibs) came >from Belarus to the U.S. in
1917 via the "eastern" route on the Fushimi Maru. They went across
Siberia through China to Japan and >from Yokahama to Seattle. A bit of
searching with Google reveals S. S. Siberia Maru that seems to have been
in operation a bit later. Some more looking is in order!
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

I have recently found a very old postcard (no message written on it) with a
photo of the S.S. Siberia-Maru on the front of it. In addition to the name
of the ship there are two lines of writing on the front in Japanese. I know
my mother-in-law left Russia and traveled to Japan and then on to Canada in
1918. Is it possible that this is the ship that made that journey?
Thanks in advance for any information available.
Sylvia Tulkoff
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: S.S. Siberia Maru #general

Leslie Weinberg <artsoul@...>
 

My late father-in-law arried in Seattle at the beginning of 1917 on the
Canada Maru. He went >from Latvia along the same route. He left Latvia
in late 1916 and arrived in either Jan or Feb of 1917. I would have to
look at the papers again to give an exact date. Does this help? I have
his papers showing the name of the ship. I am not sure whether it docked
in Seattle first or in Canada first. Leslie Weinberg

Ruth Hyman wrote:

Sylvia,
I was interested in your message because my maternal grandmother
(along with my mother and her sibs) came >from Belarus to the U.S. in
1917 via the "eastern" route on the Fushimi Maru. They went across
Siberia through China to Japan and >from Yokahama to Seattle. A bit of
searching with Google reveals S. S. Siberia Maru that seems to have been
in operation a bit later. Some more looking is in order!
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

I have recently found a very old postcard (no message written on it) with a
photo of the S.S. Siberia-Maru on the front of it. In addition to the name
of the ship there are two lines of writing on the front in Japanese. I know
my mother-in-law left Russia and traveled to Japan and then on to Canada in
1918. Is it possible that this is the ship that made that journey?
Thanks in advance for any information available.
Sylvia Tulkoff
Lichtenstein/Liechtenstein near Dresden #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

Hermann wrote:

I am looking for two Shetls with Jewish population:
Liechtenstein (Germany, near Dresden ?) and
Vetsch (spelling ?)
in the context of the ZOHAR family.
Question: where can I find information ?
My comment:

The contemporary German zip code volume has an entry for a place called

Lichtenstein with the German zip code 09350

that is situated in the Free State of Saxony near Dresden. The city's homepage is
accessible through the web address

http://www.lichtenstein-sachsen.de/begin.html

On the history page nothing noteworthy seems to have happened between 1926
(jubilee exhibition of the Saxony restaurant owners) and 1945 (disownment of the
prince of Schoenburg-Waldenburg) ...

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Lichtenstein/Liechtenstein near Dresden #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

Hermann wrote:

I am looking for two Shetls with Jewish population:
Liechtenstein (Germany, near Dresden ?) and
Vetsch (spelling ?)
in the context of the ZOHAR family.
Question: where can I find information ?
My comment:

The contemporary German zip code volume has an entry for a place called

Lichtenstein with the German zip code 09350

that is situated in the Free State of Saxony near Dresden. The city's homepage is
accessible through the web address

http://www.lichtenstein-sachsen.de/begin.html

On the history page nothing noteworthy seems to have happened between 1926
(jubilee exhibition of the Saxony restaurant owners) and 1945 (disownment of the
prince of Schoenburg-Waldenburg) ...

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany
Re: Online phone book for Herzlia, Israel - research Pollak #general

Beverly Shulster <gettingbttr@...>
 

Stan Goodman wrote:
polyakp@samaramail.ru opined:

Dear all,
I am asking a help to find the internet phonebook of city Hertzlia of
State Israel.
Research: POLLAK, MOSKOVICS-Romania (Petrova, Maramures and Oradea);
GRENWALD-Ashdod (Israel or US).
Best regards, Peter Polyak e-mail:Polyakp@samaramail.ru
There is no online telephone directory specifically for Herzlia or any other
location in Israel. Like online directories for other countries, there is a
single directory for the entire country. Its URL is:
< http://www.144.bezek.com/ >.

Note that it is in Hebrew only, often loads at a glacial speed, and is tarted
up to an amateurish extent with Flash frames. Other than that, it is very
usable.
May I add that the last time I used it, it was possible only through IE
and not Thunderbird. I don't know about other browsers.

Also, please note that Stephen Morse has two aids to using the Bezeq
phone book
For English -- http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/bezeq.html
For help with the Hebrew --
http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/bezeqhebrew.html

And lastly, the URL for Bezeq (with a "Q") is http://www.144.bezeq.com/
(though the above seems to work too).

Beverly Shulster
Yehud, Israel
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Online phone book for Herzlia, Israel - research Pollak #general

Beverly Shulster <gettingbttr@...>
 

Stan Goodman wrote:
polyakp@samaramail.ru opined:

Dear all,
I am asking a help to find the internet phonebook of city Hertzlia of
State Israel.
Research: POLLAK, MOSKOVICS-Romania (Petrova, Maramures and Oradea);
GRENWALD-Ashdod (Israel or US).
Best regards, Peter Polyak e-mail:Polyakp@samaramail.ru
There is no online telephone directory specifically for Herzlia or any other
location in Israel. Like online directories for other countries, there is a
single directory for the entire country. Its URL is:
< http://www.144.bezek.com/ >.

Note that it is in Hebrew only, often loads at a glacial speed, and is tarted
up to an amateurish extent with Flash frames. Other than that, it is very
usable.
May I add that the last time I used it, it was possible only through IE
and not Thunderbird. I don't know about other browsers.

Also, please note that Stephen Morse has two aids to using the Bezeq
phone book
For English -- http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/bezeq.html
For help with the Hebrew --
http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/bezeqhebrew.html

And lastly, the URL for Bezeq (with a "Q") is http://www.144.bezeq.com/
(though the above seems to work too).

Beverly Shulster
Yehud, Israel
Red Hair #general

STUGENELOG@...
 

Does anyone know about a Jewish/Polish myth concerning red hair? It is our
understanding that it was not recognized in a kindly fashion. I would
appreciate hearing any comments?

Alma Cooper, stugenelog@aol.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Red Hair #general

STUGENELOG@...
 

Does anyone know about a Jewish/Polish myth concerning red hair? It is our
understanding that it was not recognized in a kindly fashion. I would
appreciate hearing any comments?

Alma Cooper, stugenelog@aol.com
Re: Unusual Hebrew words on tombstone - esteemed virgin? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/31/2005 10:43:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tomchatt@earthlink.net writes:

< On the tombstone of my great aunt, . . . there are a couple of Hebrew
words in the inscription which were out of the ordinary. . . habetulah
(hay-bet-tav-vov-lamed-hay) and hacheshuvah (hay-chet-shin-vov-bet-hay, or the
'bet' could be a 'chaph'). . I'm guessing that this may translate to something
like "the esteemed virgin". . . is "virgin" in the simple sense of "young
girl" or is this explicitly attesting to sexual purity? And does "esteemed"
simply mean beloved, or does it connote (as the dictionary suggests) "important"
in some sense?

==Betulah in most contexts essentially means "unmarried woman" (equivalent
too "Bachur" for an unmarried male). No one would have wanted to assume that an
unmarried woman had been sexually active . . . or cared to announce it.

==Chashuva ("chashuv" for males) does mean "important." It is often on a
tombstone a word of special respect, a learned person, someone active in the
community.

< . . . (And if they meant "beloved", wouldn't there have been a more usual
term like 'ahuvah'?)

==In the same manner one would not announce a woman to have been a
non-virgin, one is unlikely to mention on a tombstone that someone was unloved
;-)
It is therefore not necessary/customary to mention "Ahuv[ah]" on a tombstone;
it's taken for granted.

Michael Bernet, New York
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Unusual Hebrew words on tombstone - esteemed virgin? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/31/2005 10:43:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tomchatt@earthlink.net writes:

< On the tombstone of my great aunt, . . . there are a couple of Hebrew
words in the inscription which were out of the ordinary. . . habetulah
(hay-bet-tav-vov-lamed-hay) and hacheshuvah (hay-chet-shin-vov-bet-hay, or the
'bet' could be a 'chaph'). . I'm guessing that this may translate to something
like "the esteemed virgin". . . is "virgin" in the simple sense of "young
girl" or is this explicitly attesting to sexual purity? And does "esteemed"
simply mean beloved, or does it connote (as the dictionary suggests) "important"
in some sense?

==Betulah in most contexts essentially means "unmarried woman" (equivalent
too "Bachur" for an unmarried male). No one would have wanted to assume that an
unmarried woman had been sexually active . . . or cared to announce it.

==Chashuva ("chashuv" for males) does mean "important." It is often on a
tombstone a word of special respect, a learned person, someone active in the
community.

< . . . (And if they meant "beloved", wouldn't there have been a more usual
term like 'ahuvah'?)

==In the same manner one would not announce a woman to have been a
non-virgin, one is unlikely to mention on a tombstone that someone was unloved
;-)
It is therefore not necessary/customary to mention "Ahuv[ah]" on a tombstone;
it's taken for granted.

Michael Bernet, New York
Revisiting some brickwalls - Nathan SHAPIRO, Dora GOlDSTEIN and Sarah Golda CHILLAR #general

Linda Altman <familysearch@...>
 

I need help documenting Nathan's first marriage, his 2nd marriage, the death
of his first wife. All of these events should have occured in Wysokie
Mazowiekie Poland or the surrounding areas, the family also has ties to
Ostrow Mazowiekie and Zambrow Poland.

Nathan SHAPIRO (abt 1847-1928). Wysokie Mazowiekie Poland to New York City
USA. Married first to Dora GOLSTEIN (?- abt 884) prior to 1884. Dora
GOLDSTEIN died abt 1884. Nathan 2nd Married Sarah Golda CHILLER /CHILLAR,
daughter of Abraham Issac CHILLAR and and unknown woman.

The surname may not have been SHAPIRO in Poland, it may have been something
that sounds like SHABBAS.

I have searched JRI Poland's website extensivley and have come up with
nothing. I have tried several films >from the LDS and come up with nothing.
US research has been way more fruitful, and I have been able to document the
family after 1903 in the US.

Thank you all in advance -
Linda Altman
Raleigh, NC
familysearch@bellsouth.net
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Revisiting some brickwalls - Nathan SHAPIRO, Dora GOlDSTEIN and Sarah Golda CHILLAR #general

Linda Altman <familysearch@...>
 

I need help documenting Nathan's first marriage, his 2nd marriage, the death
of his first wife. All of these events should have occured in Wysokie
Mazowiekie Poland or the surrounding areas, the family also has ties to
Ostrow Mazowiekie and Zambrow Poland.

Nathan SHAPIRO (abt 1847-1928). Wysokie Mazowiekie Poland to New York City
USA. Married first to Dora GOLSTEIN (?- abt 884) prior to 1884. Dora
GOLDSTEIN died abt 1884. Nathan 2nd Married Sarah Golda CHILLER /CHILLAR,
daughter of Abraham Issac CHILLAR and and unknown woman.

The surname may not have been SHAPIRO in Poland, it may have been something
that sounds like SHABBAS.

I have searched JRI Poland's website extensivley and have come up with
nothing. I have tried several films >from the LDS and come up with nothing.
US research has been way more fruitful, and I have been able to document the
family after 1903 in the US.

Thank you all in advance -
Linda Altman
Raleigh, NC
familysearch@bellsouth.net
Re: Subject: Blocking messages #general

s_wiener@...
 

Dear Gerald and other Genners,

While the idea to block spam and junk mail might be
the same for both high setting security and an altered
e-mail address resulting in a message such as "For
reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the
return address is not valid. To communicate with me,
please delete [whatever]..." at least we know up
front, before we respond that we will have to go
through some extra steps to communicate with the
requester.

It is discouraging to do research to help someone,
only to be surprised and confounded by the security
protocols when trying to send one's results. I would
suggest that you add an addendum to your postings
indicating that you have security devises that others
must complete when responding. That would make it
very clear >from the beginning.

Thanks,
Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA
--------
"Simon Carroll" <gilmore3@ix.netcom.com> writes:

My reason for having my settings on high is because
for every message that I want, a suitcase full of
messages comes [that] I don't want. Some bringing
spyware, viruses and worms. The benefit, besides the
obvious, is that all these messages are not stored in
my computer until I request them. I apologize for any
inconvenience that may cause you the sender. Is this
not similar to people who give us their email address
and ask us to delete certain parts of it for obvious
reasons? <snip >
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Subject: Blocking messages #general

s_wiener@...
 

Dear Gerald and other Genners,

While the idea to block spam and junk mail might be
the same for both high setting security and an altered
e-mail address resulting in a message such as "For
reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the
return address is not valid. To communicate with me,
please delete [whatever]..." at least we know up
front, before we respond that we will have to go
through some extra steps to communicate with the
requester.

It is discouraging to do research to help someone,
only to be surprised and confounded by the security
protocols when trying to send one's results. I would
suggest that you add an addendum to your postings
indicating that you have security devises that others
must complete when responding. That would make it
very clear >from the beginning.

Thanks,
Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA
--------
"Simon Carroll" <gilmore3@ix.netcom.com> writes:

My reason for having my settings on high is because
for every message that I want, a suitcase full of
messages comes [that] I don't want. Some bringing
spyware, viruses and worms. The benefit, besides the
obvious, is that all these messages are not stored in
my computer until I request them. I apologize for any
inconvenience that may cause you the sender. Is this
not similar to people who give us their email address
and ask us to delete certain parts of it for obvious
reasons? <snip >
Re: re Blocking Genners responses and computer virus! #general

windselle <windselle3@...>
 

I believe it's possible that in some cases, the spam block is not there due
to the individual user, but perhaps their ISP's mail server instead. I have
just seen Sylvia Kane's response to my request for help come in, but I see
her email was rejected due to no fault of my own. I have no spam filters
installed. I believe this is another incident of my ISP determining who I
can receive and send mail to. My own sister's email address is often
rejected when I attempt to email her, only in her case, her ISP rejects my
email address. Quirkly little email servers.

In any case, I would encourage anyone who runs in to this problem frequently
to check out their ISP's help section if they have no known spam filters
installed. It may be your ISP has this feature enabled for you.

Rebecca Darlow
windselle3@verizon.net

Dear Carol,

I second that, but wanted to add this happened to me a few weeks ago. I
tend not to click anything like this, but for some reason decided to this time.
So, I "clicked here," and got myself a computer virus! I imagine some of
these spam protectors are perfectly legitimate, but would like to at least
share my story that perhaps sometimes they aren't.

Thanks for bringing this up,
Shelly Crane
crzprncess@aol.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: re Blocking Genners responses and computer virus! #general

windselle <windselle3@...>
 

I believe it's possible that in some cases, the spam block is not there due
to the individual user, but perhaps their ISP's mail server instead. I have
just seen Sylvia Kane's response to my request for help come in, but I see
her email was rejected due to no fault of my own. I have no spam filters
installed. I believe this is another incident of my ISP determining who I
can receive and send mail to. My own sister's email address is often
rejected when I attempt to email her, only in her case, her ISP rejects my
email address. Quirkly little email servers.

In any case, I would encourage anyone who runs in to this problem frequently
to check out their ISP's help section if they have no known spam filters
installed. It may be your ISP has this feature enabled for you.

Rebecca Darlow
windselle3@verizon.net

Dear Carol,

I second that, but wanted to add this happened to me a few weeks ago. I
tend not to click anything like this, but for some reason decided to this time.
So, I "clicked here," and got myself a computer virus! I imagine some of
these spam protectors are perfectly legitimate, but would like to at least
share my story that perhaps sometimes they aren't.

Thanks for bringing this up,
Shelly Crane
crzprncess@aol.com
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