Date   

Re: Cohanim and their descent #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 2:06:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tomchatt@earthlink.net writes:

< . . . does being a Cohen or a Levite only pass through male lines? >

==correct

< That seems a bit odd, since doesn't being Jewish at all technically come
from the mother and not the father? >
==Parental descent dates back to the beginning of Judaism and is related to
property considerations, and family privileges

==Maternal descent for the establishment of the status of a Jewish child is
much more recent and is the necessary response to a common "sport" over the
ages, that of raping Jewish women.

< Couldn't you theoretically end up with a Cohen having non-Cohen grandsons
through his daughter who married a non-Cohen,

==absolutely, very common. Very few daughter of Kohanim happen to marry a
Kohen

< and also having non-Jewish Cohen grandsons through his son who married a
non-Jew?

==Is that like having a Chasidic Pope? If you're not Jewish, you're not a
Kohen. And a Kohen loses his status if he marries a gentile or a convert.

< If one's ancestor is a Cohen or Levi, and you find other people with the
same surname >from the same area who are also Cohen (or Levi), does that
increase the likelihood of their being related?

==That, essentially, is why we discuss them in genealogy. Knowing someone
is a Kohen makes it easier to trace an ancestral line up and down through
synagogue records, tombstones and other documents.

==There is an excellent database available on Jgen that lists surnames with
towns and with Kohen/Levi/Israel status

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cohanim and their descent #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 2:06:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tomchatt@earthlink.net writes:

< . . . does being a Cohen or a Levite only pass through male lines? >

==correct

< That seems a bit odd, since doesn't being Jewish at all technically come
from the mother and not the father? >
==Parental descent dates back to the beginning of Judaism and is related to
property considerations, and family privileges

==Maternal descent for the establishment of the status of a Jewish child is
much more recent and is the necessary response to a common "sport" over the
ages, that of raping Jewish women.

< Couldn't you theoretically end up with a Cohen having non-Cohen grandsons
through his daughter who married a non-Cohen,

==absolutely, very common. Very few daughter of Kohanim happen to marry a
Kohen

< and also having non-Jewish Cohen grandsons through his son who married a
non-Jew?

==Is that like having a Chasidic Pope? If you're not Jewish, you're not a
Kohen. And a Kohen loses his status if he marries a gentile or a convert.

< If one's ancestor is a Cohen or Levi, and you find other people with the
same surname >from the same area who are also Cohen (or Levi), does that
increase the likelihood of their being related?

==That, essentially, is why we discuss them in genealogy. Knowing someone
is a Kohen makes it easier to trace an ancestral line up and down through
synagogue records, tombstones and other documents.

==There is an excellent database available on Jgen that lists surnames with
towns and with Kohen/Levi/Israel status

Michael Bernet, New York


Old Russian translation needed - File on ViewMate #belarus

Tamar Amit <tamar.amit@...>
 

I have just obtained some vital record copies >from PSA. Some of them
were written in old Russian. I would very much appreciate having this on=
e
translated - It is the marriage record of my Grand-Greatparents
Hirsch-David and Chaja.

Thank you in advance.

ViewMate address:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6156

Please reply privately. With many thanks!

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Tamar.Amit@gmail.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Old Russian translation needed - File on ViewMate #belarus

Tamar Amit <tamar.amit@...>
 

I have just obtained some vital record copies >from PSA. Some of them
were written in old Russian. I would very much appreciate having this on=
e
translated - It is the marriage record of my Grand-Greatparents
Hirsch-David and Chaja.

Thank you in advance.

ViewMate address:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6156

Please reply privately. With many thanks!

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Tamar.Amit@gmail.com


Re: age of first marriage varied #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 1:03:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lazer@sandiego.edu writes:

"Someone wrote:"

<though it is surprising that, in 300 CE this young lady had reached
the age of 22 without being married off!>

Jewish marriage customs have varied considerably over time
and place. In 1850 in Russia or 1950 in America, this would be
surprising. In 1900 in Russia or 2000 in America, it would not be
surprising. One needs to know much more about the customs
of the time and place to form a judgment about how unusual such
a personal decision might be.

==True, in very general terms.

==It so happens that scholars of Judaism, Jewish history, archaeologists and
others have amassed a great deal of information about Jewish customs 1700
years ago, >from the Talmud for instances, and >from burial grounds such as Bet
She`arim discussed in the relevant posting. The person who had expressed
surprise at this late age of being unmarried has a fine reputation as scholar
and genealogist.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: age of first marriage varied #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 1:03:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lazer@sandiego.edu writes:

"Someone wrote:"

<though it is surprising that, in 300 CE this young lady had reached
the age of 22 without being married off!>

Jewish marriage customs have varied considerably over time
and place. In 1850 in Russia or 1950 in America, this would be
surprising. In 1900 in Russia or 2000 in America, it would not be
surprising. One needs to know much more about the customs
of the time and place to form a judgment about how unusual such
a personal decision might be.

==True, in very general terms.

==It so happens that scholars of Judaism, Jewish history, archaeologists and
others have amassed a great deal of information about Jewish customs 1700
years ago, >from the Talmud for instances, and >from burial grounds such as Bet
She`arim discussed in the relevant posting. The person who had expressed
surprise at this late age of being unmarried has a fine reputation as scholar
and genealogist.

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: Cohanim and their rightful name. #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 1:04:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
israel@math.ubc.ca writes:

< The "Cohen modal haplotype" is more common among Cohanim than
non-Cohanim, but neither its presence nor its absence constitutes proof of
one's status. Since no definitive proof is available, all anyone can go on
is family tradition. >

==Better yet than tradition, synagogue records, ketubot, imprimaturs on
books, tombstones and specific location of burial.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cohanim and their rightful name. #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 6/3/2005 1:04:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
israel@math.ubc.ca writes:

< The "Cohen modal haplotype" is more common among Cohanim than
non-Cohanim, but neither its presence nor its absence constitutes proof of
one's status. Since no definitive proof is available, all anyone can go on
is family tradition. >

==Better yet than tradition, synagogue records, ketubot, imprimaturs on
books, tombstones and specific location of burial.

Michael Bernet, New York


Peter MEYER & family: interpreting records #general

Shari Kantrow
 

Dear Genners,
Let me first thank you for all the incredible
tips, hints, clues and websites you have provided, and
for the incredible wealth of information I have
learned just >from reading others'postings. Because of
following your advice, I found two possible
break-throughs last night. However, there are some
questions I have that I am hoping someone can answer,
and boy do I need help.Please forgive me, as I cannot
figure out how to do viewmate.
1. My G-grandfather Peter MEYER came to NY (Castle
Gardens)in 1884. There is someone with this exact name
and his profession (carpenter) and year of birth, 1857
that came over on the ship P. Caland. I found this on
the Stephen Morse website. The question is, he is
listed as >from Germany, and on 1900-1920 Manhattan, NY
censuses his origin is listed as either Russia or
Poland. I assume Galicia, however, does "German" fit
in with this?
2. Using Stephen Morse's site again under Castle
Garden passengers, I did a search for my G-grandmother
Gussie MEYER, (Peter's wife) born about 1861. I had no
luck until I tried omitting her first name and used a
"starts with" search. I then tried her son Abe, born
in 1882, and Abe MEYERSCHER came up b. 1882, along
with Josef b. 1880, Salomon b. 1884 and the mother who
I am hoping is Gussie listed as Flake. I took a closer
look and realized it was actually Zlate. Here are my
questions:
- Could the name Zlate become Gussie?
- Could Gussie's age be off by 9 years?.
- As Gussie had several children who had died by
1895 that I do not know the names of, would it have
been likely that she would have named later children,
(my grandfather,Samuel and his brother Joseph) after
them?
- The 1900 and 1910 Manhattan, NY census also
list a daughter named Celia, born about 1887 in
Russia, but she is not listed with the above group??
- The town of origin is listed as Yanona,
Austria. Has anyone heard of this?


I hope I am not just grasping at straws. Thank
you so much in advance for all your help.
Shari Kantrow
sjoysk@yahoo.com


MEYER, KAFKA, KUPFER, SCHAFF -Galicia>NY
BLITZER,KARPET,JACOBSON,LANDSMAN, BLITZMAN,BLAZER
PLATZMAN, REYITTS (REIZ)Kamenets-Podolskiy, Podolia >NY
SCHWARTZ,HABERMAN,DICKMAN,SHAPIRO- Bukaczowce>NY
SCHNEIDER, MILBAUER, MEYER - Austria


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Peter MEYER & family: interpreting records #general

Shari Kantrow
 

Dear Genners,
Let me first thank you for all the incredible
tips, hints, clues and websites you have provided, and
for the incredible wealth of information I have
learned just >from reading others'postings. Because of
following your advice, I found two possible
break-throughs last night. However, there are some
questions I have that I am hoping someone can answer,
and boy do I need help.Please forgive me, as I cannot
figure out how to do viewmate.
1. My G-grandfather Peter MEYER came to NY (Castle
Gardens)in 1884. There is someone with this exact name
and his profession (carpenter) and year of birth, 1857
that came over on the ship P. Caland. I found this on
the Stephen Morse website. The question is, he is
listed as >from Germany, and on 1900-1920 Manhattan, NY
censuses his origin is listed as either Russia or
Poland. I assume Galicia, however, does "German" fit
in with this?
2. Using Stephen Morse's site again under Castle
Garden passengers, I did a search for my G-grandmother
Gussie MEYER, (Peter's wife) born about 1861. I had no
luck until I tried omitting her first name and used a
"starts with" search. I then tried her son Abe, born
in 1882, and Abe MEYERSCHER came up b. 1882, along
with Josef b. 1880, Salomon b. 1884 and the mother who
I am hoping is Gussie listed as Flake. I took a closer
look and realized it was actually Zlate. Here are my
questions:
- Could the name Zlate become Gussie?
- Could Gussie's age be off by 9 years?.
- As Gussie had several children who had died by
1895 that I do not know the names of, would it have
been likely that she would have named later children,
(my grandfather,Samuel and his brother Joseph) after
them?
- The 1900 and 1910 Manhattan, NY census also
list a daughter named Celia, born about 1887 in
Russia, but she is not listed with the above group??
- The town of origin is listed as Yanona,
Austria. Has anyone heard of this?


I hope I am not just grasping at straws. Thank
you so much in advance for all your help.
Shari Kantrow
sjoysk@yahoo.com


MEYER, KAFKA, KUPFER, SCHAFF -Galicia>NY
BLITZER,KARPET,JACOBSON,LANDSMAN, BLITZMAN,BLAZER
PLATZMAN, REYITTS (REIZ)Kamenets-Podolskiy, Podolia >NY
SCHWARTZ,HABERMAN,DICKMAN,SHAPIRO- Bukaczowce>NY
SCHNEIDER, MILBAUER, MEYER - Austria


Polish Translation: Birth Certificate 1911 #general

Gary Palgon <gmpalgon@...>
 

I am looking for a translation of a Polish Birth Certificate >from 1911.
It can be found at:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6180

Please reply by direct email to gmpalgon@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Gary


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Polish Translation: Birth Certificate 1911 #general

Gary Palgon <gmpalgon@...>
 

I am looking for a translation of a Polish Birth Certificate >from 1911.
It can be found at:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6180

Please reply by direct email to gmpalgon@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Gary


Re: sighet #romania

Lawrence Litwin <theslice@...>
 

Dear all rom siggers who replied to Fogel, Kuhn, Wilhelem

Thank you for your contributions to my query on family researching
names for the town of Sighetu and Viseu de sus. Some of your answers
have guided me in a good direction.
much is appreciated.

Lawrence Litwin.


Romania SIG #Romania Re: sighet #romania

Lawrence Litwin <theslice@...>
 

Dear all rom siggers who replied to Fogel, Kuhn, Wilhelem

Thank you for your contributions to my query on family researching
names for the town of Sighetu and Viseu de sus. Some of your answers
have guided me in a good direction.
much is appreciated.

Lawrence Litwin.


Chozeh mi Lublin #rabbinic

Lawrence Litwin <theslice@...>
 

Hello RavSIGgers,

I have been able to complete some of my research regarding the
Chozeh of Lublin. Apparently there is a book written about his life
and times. Does anyone know about this book if so I would be
interested in purchasing a copy of it.

Apparently his son Kappel HOROWITZ was also a famed rabbi and I was
interested in any information regarding Kappel. I also found out
that Koppel Engelsberg is named after the afformentioned Kappel.
any information on both would be helpful. I am especially looking
for their rabbinical works.

I just picked up the Chozeh mi Lublin's book the Zot Zikaron, and
have arranged lessons with my local Chabad rabbi to learn about the
Chozeh's life and thoughts. It shall be interesting.

Thanks

Lawrence Litwin
Ariyer_Tzvi

[Moderator's Note: Please reply privately if your reply includes
specific suggestions of commercial availability.]


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Chozeh mi Lublin #rabbinic

Lawrence Litwin <theslice@...>
 

Hello RavSIGgers,

I have been able to complete some of my research regarding the
Chozeh of Lublin. Apparently there is a book written about his life
and times. Does anyone know about this book if so I would be
interested in purchasing a copy of it.

Apparently his son Kappel HOROWITZ was also a famed rabbi and I was
interested in any information regarding Kappel. I also found out
that Koppel Engelsberg is named after the afformentioned Kappel.
any information on both would be helpful. I am especially looking
for their rabbinical works.

I just picked up the Chozeh mi Lublin's book the Zot Zikaron, and
have arranged lessons with my local Chabad rabbi to learn about the
Chozeh's life and thoughts. It shall be interesting.

Thanks

Lawrence Litwin
Ariyer_Tzvi

[Moderator's Note: Please reply privately if your reply includes
specific suggestions of commercial availability.]


Detroit Shirley Eder school burning down approx. 1910 #general

Gayle Schlissel Riley <key2pst@...>
 

I have two questions concerning Detroit,
Anyone know the parents or genealogy of Shirley Eder, write died this
week. I am a EDER, >from Tarnobrzeg, anyone know if Shirely's family came
from Tarnobrzeg???
Second, when my grandfather was in 5th grade his school burned down in
Detroit about 1910 any knowledge on that subject. Thanks faithful
researchers..Gayle >from California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Detroit Shirley Eder school burning down approx. 1910 #general

Gayle Schlissel Riley <key2pst@...>
 

I have two questions concerning Detroit,
Anyone know the parents or genealogy of Shirley Eder, write died this
week. I am a EDER, >from Tarnobrzeg, anyone know if Shirely's family came
from Tarnobrzeg???
Second, when my grandfather was in 5th grade his school burned down in
Detroit about 1910 any knowledge on that subject. Thanks faithful
researchers..Gayle >from California


REINES family origins in Lithuania #general

elana eisenstein <elanafay@...>
 

I am trying to trace my REINES family history.

My great great grandmother was Masha Reines. She lived in Zembrov for much
or her life and died in Bialystok. I have not been able to find any birth
or marriage records for her. Can anyone tell me, >from what town was the
Lithuanian branch of the Reines family originally from.

Is anyone familiar with Rabbi Moshe (no last name given for him) who
married Raina (Reines), earlier in the family history. Do you know where
Rabbi Moshe was >from and what year he was married?

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.

Elana Eisenstein
New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked for Polish records as well as
Lithuanian ones? If not, look at Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
at http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/ to see if they have anything
relevant to your search.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen REINES family origins in Lithuania #general

elana eisenstein <elanafay@...>
 

I am trying to trace my REINES family history.

My great great grandmother was Masha Reines. She lived in Zembrov for much
or her life and died in Bialystok. I have not been able to find any birth
or marriage records for her. Can anyone tell me, >from what town was the
Lithuanian branch of the Reines family originally from.

Is anyone familiar with Rabbi Moshe (no last name given for him) who
married Raina (Reines), earlier in the family history. Do you know where
Rabbi Moshe was >from and what year he was married?

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.

Elana Eisenstein
New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked for Polish records as well as
Lithuanian ones? If not, look at Jewish Records Indexing - Poland
at http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/ to see if they have anything
relevant to your search.