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Re: Ellis Island Database/Elusive Hometown of the WEINSTEIN Family #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

I am not Michael, but I can tell you with certainty that those notations
were *not* added in the process of making the materials ready for the
database - that would have required an unacceptable amount of research and
cross-referencing. Besides, they were working >from microfilm copies which
are beyond changing in that way.

And they were not added by the National Archives, which generally prefers to
maintain their holdings in the condition in which they were received.
Besides, the Archives only holds microfilm copies. I believe the surviving
paper originals were donated years ago to the Balch Institute in
Philadelphia and are rarely made available for viewing.

These are notations added by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (or
its predecessors) *before* the lists were filmed and given to the National
Archive, in the days when part of the naturalization process was to seek
manual confirmation of legal entry to the US. An inquiry of one sort or
another would reach the keepers of these lists, who would look up, note the
date of entry, etc, and record with this code the date of their response to
the court proposing to perform the naturalization.

--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

"Lilli Sprintz" < spri0037@... > wrote in message
news:42CA968A.8090809@......

Michael Fener wrote:

"You will find that these numbers usually indicate that the person completed some
portion of the Naturalization process. The Naturalization paperwork may give you
some very helpful information.

Moschko had 1-85808, so it appears his papers were filed in Boston. Chaja had
2-809856 12-16-40, so it appears her were filed in the Southern District Court in
New York around 1940."


Michael, I'd never heard of this before. Will you explain more about this?
For instance, when did these numbers get written into the passenger ship
transcript? Because I assume that the application for naturalization would have
happened some time after the passenger ship records were written up. Was this
something written onto the record in the process of the EIDB people making these
documents ready for the database, or something the National Archives did in the
past for some reason? Thanks.

Lilli Sprintz
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ellis Island Database/Elusive Hometown of the WEINSTEIN Family #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

I am not Michael, but I can tell you with certainty that those notations
were *not* added in the process of making the materials ready for the
database - that would have required an unacceptable amount of research and
cross-referencing. Besides, they were working >from microfilm copies which
are beyond changing in that way.

And they were not added by the National Archives, which generally prefers to
maintain their holdings in the condition in which they were received.
Besides, the Archives only holds microfilm copies. I believe the surviving
paper originals were donated years ago to the Balch Institute in
Philadelphia and are rarely made available for viewing.

These are notations added by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (or
its predecessors) *before* the lists were filmed and given to the National
Archive, in the days when part of the naturalization process was to seek
manual confirmation of legal entry to the US. An inquiry of one sort or
another would reach the keepers of these lists, who would look up, note the
date of entry, etc, and record with this code the date of their response to
the court proposing to perform the naturalization.

--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

"Lilli Sprintz" < spri0037@... > wrote in message
news:42CA968A.8090809@......

Michael Fener wrote:

"You will find that these numbers usually indicate that the person completed some
portion of the Naturalization process. The Naturalization paperwork may give you
some very helpful information.

Moschko had 1-85808, so it appears his papers were filed in Boston. Chaja had
2-809856 12-16-40, so it appears her were filed in the Southern District Court in
New York around 1940."


Michael, I'd never heard of this before. Will you explain more about this?
For instance, when did these numbers get written into the passenger ship
transcript? Because I assume that the application for naturalization would have
happened some time after the passenger ship records were written up. Was this
something written onto the record in the process of the EIDB people making these
documents ready for the database, or something the National Archives did in the
past for some reason? Thanks.

Lilli Sprintz
Re: SHNEORSON #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Y. Klausner" < yklaus@... > wrote in message
news:039e01c58233$254355c0$6978fea9@yochevedk...

Dear Genners,
I would appreciate any information about the father of Rabbi Nachum Yosef
SHNEORSON. Nachum Yosef SHNEORSON was a grandson of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman of
Liadi.
Thank you Yehuda
Try Ravsig ie the Rabbinical Special Interest Group.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: SHNEORSON #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Y. Klausner" < yklaus@... > wrote in message
news:039e01c58233$254355c0$6978fea9@yochevedk...

Dear Genners,
I would appreciate any information about the father of Rabbi Nachum Yosef
SHNEORSON. Nachum Yosef SHNEORSON was a grandson of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman of
Liadi.
Thank you Yehuda
Try Ravsig ie the Rabbinical Special Interest Group.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)
AUERBACH #general

dotvic <dotvic@...>
 

Does anyone recognize the name Zalman David AUERBACH born 1842 in Polotsk,
Belarus? He was my great-great-grandfather. As a child I had the idea he
was a rabbi but I have no proof.

Dorothy AUERBACH Rivers

Tucson, Arizona USA
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen AUERBACH #general

dotvic <dotvic@...>
 

Does anyone recognize the name Zalman David AUERBACH born 1842 in Polotsk,
Belarus? He was my great-great-grandfather. As a child I had the idea he
was a rabbi but I have no proof.

Dorothy AUERBACH Rivers

Tucson, Arizona USA
Tombstone Translation Request #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

I have some Ukraine tombstones which I could use help translating. Thanks:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6440
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6439

Tom Erribe
CA
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Tombstone Translation Request #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

I have some Ukraine tombstones which I could use help translating. Thanks:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6440
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6439

Tom Erribe
CA
1918 occupations #ukraine

Tamar Dothan <dothan-t@...>
 

I have started translating >from Hebrew a list of 1920-1919 pogrom victims
for this sig and need some help.

One victim was working at a storage of what may be " the P.T.K" . Does
anyone know what that may stand for?

Alternatively, does anyone know of a word [probably in Russian or Yiddish]
that starts with the Hebrew letters HEY, PEY, TET, KUF ? The HEY may
stands for "the". What's the Yiddish/Russian/Polish for pharmacy?

Thanks,

Tamar Dothan
Jerusalem, Israel
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine 1918 occupations #ukraine

Tamar Dothan <dothan-t@...>
 

I have started translating >from Hebrew a list of 1920-1919 pogrom victims
for this sig and need some help.

One victim was working at a storage of what may be " the P.T.K" . Does
anyone know what that may stand for?

Alternatively, does anyone know of a word [probably in Russian or Yiddish]
that starts with the Hebrew letters HEY, PEY, TET, KUF ? The HEY may
stands for "the". What's the Yiddish/Russian/Polish for pharmacy?

Thanks,

Tamar Dothan
Jerusalem, Israel
To Genners in Los Angeles, California #ukraine

Yael & Barry <ydriver@...>
 

This is a message to Genners living in Los-Angeles.

For some time now I have had difficulties in communicating with
"Home of Peace Memorial Park" - a Jewish cemetery located (I believe)
on Whittier Boulevard, L.A., CA

I have telephoned and e-mailed the man in charge for assistance in
obtaining photos of 2 headstones of family members buried at this
cemetery. Unfortunately, and I am not sure why, I have had no response
whatsoever.

I would therefore be very grateful if there is a Genner living nearby
who would be prepared to visit the cemetery and take the two relevant
photos. Needless to say that I expect to pay for all relevant expenses.

If you live nearby this cemetery and can spare the time to help, please
e-mail me at the address below, and I will give you more particulars.

Thank you in advance

Yael Driver
ydguard-general@...

Moderator's Note: Address, telephone number and name redacted. anyone who
is willing to helkp can get specifics >from Yael.
Translation help #ukraine

Raymond Cannata <cannata2@...>
 

I'm wondering if anyone can help me translate an inscription on the back of
a 1913 photo >from Elizavetgrad (Kirovograd), Kherson? It appears to be in
Yiddish and my Russian friend could not make any sense of it.

Ray Cannata
NJ
Cannata2@...

TSIUBELEVSKY / SIEBEL, FULNEROW / FELZEROW, POBERJESKY / POBER, DASHEVSKY,
RUBEL, TROTSKY >from Elizavetgrad (Kirovograd), Kherson, Ukraine
KIRSNER, BRAVER >from Orla, Grodno-area, Lida, Belarus.
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine To Genners in Los Angeles, California #ukraine

Yael & Barry <ydriver@...>
 

This is a message to Genners living in Los-Angeles.

For some time now I have had difficulties in communicating with
"Home of Peace Memorial Park" - a Jewish cemetery located (I believe)
on Whittier Boulevard, L.A., CA

I have telephoned and e-mailed the man in charge for assistance in
obtaining photos of 2 headstones of family members buried at this
cemetery. Unfortunately, and I am not sure why, I have had no response
whatsoever.

I would therefore be very grateful if there is a Genner living nearby
who would be prepared to visit the cemetery and take the two relevant
photos. Needless to say that I expect to pay for all relevant expenses.

If you live nearby this cemetery and can spare the time to help, please
e-mail me at the address below, and I will give you more particulars.

Thank you in advance

Yael Driver
ydguard-general@...

Moderator's Note: Address, telephone number and name redacted. anyone who
is willing to helkp can get specifics >from Yael.
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Translation help #ukraine

Raymond Cannata <cannata2@...>
 

I'm wondering if anyone can help me translate an inscription on the back of
a 1913 photo >from Elizavetgrad (Kirovograd), Kherson? It appears to be in
Yiddish and my Russian friend could not make any sense of it.

Ray Cannata
NJ
Cannata2@...

TSIUBELEVSKY / SIEBEL, FULNEROW / FELZEROW, POBERJESKY / POBER, DASHEVSKY,
RUBEL, TROTSKY >from Elizavetgrad (Kirovograd), Kherson, Ukraine
KIRSNER, BRAVER >from Orla, Grodno-area, Lida, Belarus.
Jewish Agricultural Colonies in the Ukraine - site update #ukraine

Chaim freedman
 

In the last two months considerable material has been added to the site
"Jewish Agricultural Colonies in the Ukraine"
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm

1) Colonists lists:
People who moved >from Kovno Gubernia to Grafskoy (1850-1852)
People who moved >from Vitebsk Gubernia to Novozlatopol (1850-1852).

2) Photographs >from Yad VaShem valley of communities listing the colonies
and adjacent towns and villages.

3) "The Interlocking Melbourne Russians". Published in Roots-Key, Newsletter
of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Los Angeles10 May 2005.

4) A bread dish presented to Nicholas II by Jewish farmers.

5) Incredible new discovery: A photograph of the Mass Grave of the victims
of the pogrom in Trudoliubovka in 1919.

6) Berger Report about trip to city of Ekaterinoslav and colonies of
Guliaipole district in the period November 24 – December 3 1924 giving
details of the condition of the Sovietized colonies.

7) List of over 700 Holocaust victims killed in Novozlatopol, and report of
the Soviet Committee of enquiry.


8) Holocaust reports >from Zatishye, Berdyansk and Mariupol.


8) A link to Efingar colony page ( in Russian) which was added to
Shtetllinks.

Further material is being processed.
Comments are welcome.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@...

Webmaster:
Pavel Bernshtam
Rehovot, Israel
javaap@...
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Jewish Agricultural Colonies in the Ukraine - site update #ukraine

Chaim freedman
 

In the last two months considerable material has been added to the site
"Jewish Agricultural Colonies in the Ukraine"
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm

1) Colonists lists:
People who moved >from Kovno Gubernia to Grafskoy (1850-1852)
People who moved >from Vitebsk Gubernia to Novozlatopol (1850-1852).

2) Photographs >from Yad VaShem valley of communities listing the colonies
and adjacent towns and villages.

3) "The Interlocking Melbourne Russians". Published in Roots-Key, Newsletter
of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Los Angeles10 May 2005.

4) A bread dish presented to Nicholas II by Jewish farmers.

5) Incredible new discovery: A photograph of the Mass Grave of the victims
of the pogrom in Trudoliubovka in 1919.

6) Berger Report about trip to city of Ekaterinoslav and colonies of
Guliaipole district in the period November 24 – December 3 1924 giving
details of the condition of the Sovietized colonies.

7) List of over 700 Holocaust victims killed in Novozlatopol, and report of
the Soviet Committee of enquiry.


8) Holocaust reports >from Zatishye, Berdyansk and Mariupol.


8) A link to Efingar colony page ( in Russian) which was added to
Shtetllinks.

Further material is being processed.
Comments are welcome.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@...

Webmaster:
Pavel Bernshtam
Rehovot, Israel
javaap@...
translation help #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Below is a link to an 1882 marriage record, for a couple in the Tarnogrod
area. I would really like some translation help and would like to learn
more about the groom, his age, occupation, where he was born and resided,
his mother's first name (last word on line 16), etc..

If time permits, I'd also like to learn more about the bride, especially her
parent's names and mother's maiden name, and the town she was from.



http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6415


Thank you,
Tom Erribe
CA
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine translation help #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Below is a link to an 1882 marriage record, for a couple in the Tarnogrod
area. I would really like some translation help and would like to learn
more about the groom, his age, occupation, where he was born and resided,
his mother's first name (last word on line 16), etc..

If time permits, I'd also like to learn more about the bride, especially her
parent's names and mother's maiden name, and the town she was from.



http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6415


Thank you,
Tom Erribe
CA
Etymology of the name KRAVITZ #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Aizic Sechter wrote:

the name KRAVITZ which has a Slavic ring is also a Hebrew acronym
for a verse >from Psalms. "Kol Rina Ve Yeshua Be Ohalei Tzadikim."
Which we also recite in the holiday Halel prayer.

We are lucky that these ancestors left in writing the reason why
they chose these >names, otherwise we would never have known why these names were
chosen and would have given different, wild but not correct theories as some have
done in this discussion.
Dear Aizic,

This is a perfect example of a folk-etymology -- and a very
instructive example of how easily these charming traditions can arise!

In actual fact, the name KRAVITZ (more correctly spelled Kraviec
and (pronounced Kraviets) is Polish for tailor! The name is thus
just one among many surnames that reflect an ancestral occupation and
clearly did not originate as an acronym of the verse >from Psalm 118
quoted above. Moreover, the initial letters of the words >from the
psalms (qof-resh-vav-bet-tzaddi) do not spell KRAVITZ correctly in
either Hebrew or Yiddish, so the acronym is not in fact reflected in
the name.

The initial letters of the phrase >from Psalm 118,
qof-resh-vav-bet-tzaddi, would have had to be tampered with to
produce a spelling that would accurately represent either in Hebrew
or in Yiddish the precise sounds in the name K-R_A-V-I-TZ -- for
instance, by changing the vav of "vi-yeshuah" to an aleph to get
the "A" sound in the first syllable of KRAVITZ, and adding a yod
after the bet of "be-oholei" to get the "i" sound in the second
syllable. Furthermore, the name KRAVITZ when written in Yiddish would
presumably be spelled with a double vav and not a bet at all.

This particular folk-etymology is fascinating for another reason
also: it could neve have evolved but for the fact that the sounds
"B" and "V" are rendered by the same alphabet character in
Cyrillic. Otherwise there would have been no reason to associate the
V sound in KRAVITZ with the B sound in "B'Oholei" in the quoted
verse >from Psalms.

The message does not state with clarity exactly who it was that left
the written record of the reason for the name KRAVITZ. I wonder
whether the person who "left in writing the reason why *they* chose
these names" was actually the person who originally adopted the
surname Z because of the legal requirement. I I think it is far
more likely he was a descendant of the original KRAVITZ who was
simply recording a tradition he had he had heard >from an elder. In
other words, the association of the name with the verse >from Psalms
arose later, at some point after the name had actually been adopted.
The original reason for that choice of name was the occupation,
namely, tailor.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Etymology of the name KRAVITZ #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Aizic Sechter wrote:

the name KRAVITZ which has a Slavic ring is also a Hebrew acronym
for a verse >from Psalms. "Kol Rina Ve Yeshua Be Ohalei Tzadikim."
Which we also recite in the holiday Halel prayer.

We are lucky that these ancestors left in writing the reason why
they chose these >names, otherwise we would never have known why these names were
chosen and would have given different, wild but not correct theories as some have
done in this discussion.
Dear Aizic,

This is a perfect example of a folk-etymology -- and a very
instructive example of how easily these charming traditions can arise!

In actual fact, the name KRAVITZ (more correctly spelled Kraviec
and (pronounced Kraviets) is Polish for tailor! The name is thus
just one among many surnames that reflect an ancestral occupation and
clearly did not originate as an acronym of the verse >from Psalm 118
quoted above. Moreover, the initial letters of the words >from the
psalms (qof-resh-vav-bet-tzaddi) do not spell KRAVITZ correctly in
either Hebrew or Yiddish, so the acronym is not in fact reflected in
the name.

The initial letters of the phrase >from Psalm 118,
qof-resh-vav-bet-tzaddi, would have had to be tampered with to
produce a spelling that would accurately represent either in Hebrew
or in Yiddish the precise sounds in the name K-R_A-V-I-TZ -- for
instance, by changing the vav of "vi-yeshuah" to an aleph to get
the "A" sound in the first syllable of KRAVITZ, and adding a yod
after the bet of "be-oholei" to get the "i" sound in the second
syllable. Furthermore, the name KRAVITZ when written in Yiddish would
presumably be spelled with a double vav and not a bet at all.

This particular folk-etymology is fascinating for another reason
also: it could neve have evolved but for the fact that the sounds
"B" and "V" are rendered by the same alphabet character in
Cyrillic. Otherwise there would have been no reason to associate the
V sound in KRAVITZ with the B sound in "B'Oholei" in the quoted
verse >from Psalms.

The message does not state with clarity exactly who it was that left
the written record of the reason for the name KRAVITZ. I wonder
whether the person who "left in writing the reason why *they* chose
these names" was actually the person who originally adopted the
surname Z because of the legal requirement. I I think it is far
more likely he was a descendant of the original KRAVITZ who was
simply recording a tradition he had he had heard >from an elder. In
other words, the association of the name with the verse >from Psalms
arose later, at some point after the name had actually been adopted.
The original reason for that choice of name was the occupation,
namely, tailor.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...
370621 - 370640 of 669645