Date   

Professions and family names in Hermanuv Mestec #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

David Laufer writes: "If he [KLEPPER] was a knacker, perhaps he worked in
close cooperation with a leather merchant. Were there any LEDERERs in
Hermanuv Mestec?"

This little Jewish community in the Chrudimer Kreis, Bohemia is very
interesting. It comprises of 71 families with Schutz, and three without -
a Jewish population of about 300 in 1793. It is full of Hausierer [peddlers],
Schnittwaren [fabric lengths] dealers and tailors/dressmakers. A veritable
hive of activity.

There is only one baker - the widow Ester LUSTIGEN. You would have to visit
house No 19 to buy your fresh rolls, daily or perhaps just on Fridays for
the special Sabbath bread.

There are two raw leather merchants: Joseph LEDERER [house No 49] with
wife Rosalia, son Beer and two daughters Sara and Susanna. The other leather
dealer is Isak POKORNY, married to Ester.

I have another surprise for David - there is a Nathan KLOPERER - [o umlaut]
who is a glovemaker. The bookbinder, obviously a purchaser of leather, is
Moissess [sic] BRUK [umlaut]. The cobbler is called Isak HOFMANN - and he
has a wife and four daughters!

The glazier is convenienty called Abraham GLASSMANN [house No 51] and he
has a son Philip and daughter Martha.

There are also two widows named BANDLERIN and a BANDLER family [bandl =
tapes and ribbons,] who should by their names be Posamentierer, but they are
Schnittwaren dealers! The actual Posamentierer are called Dawid FISCHER
[house No 36], Dawid SPITZ [house No 53] and Jakob LEBENTHAL. Imagine,
three Posamentierer in this tiny community in 1793. In Vienna today,
according to Viennese Fred Posamentir [I have his permission to quote]
there is only one - presumably because fashions have changed and a Swedish
store, with a four-lettered name starting with *I*, has taken over with
ready-made blinds and curtains.

I believe that the most important leather merchant is Bernard POLAK who
lives in the Herrschaft but in Moraschitz [Morasice] - he has the
Moraschitz leather concession; his birthplace is given as Schebekow/
Sebekovice [okr Trebic].

So here in Hermanuv Mestec/Herzman Mniestez we do have two professions
represented - a glazier and a leather dealer with the appropriate family
names: GLASSMANN and LEDERER.

I checked our message archives and there is not one reference to GLASSMANN,
but we do have have many LEDERER hits since the SIG commenced. Our keen
Sigger, Peter Lowe [U.K.] also has a family connection to this area
[please search our archives with keyword *Hermanuv*]. GLASSMANN does not
appear on the JGFF either under Czech Republic. There is only one GLASSMANN
from Poland and many GLASSMAN mainly >from Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Russia
and Latvia.

LEBENTHAL has one hit on the JGFF >from Poland. POKORNY has one hit >from
our SIG [Puklitz Moravia]. The other JGFF *POKORNY* hits are for Poland
and Slovakia.

I have checked out these names on Yad Vashem as well -there are very many
tragic victims called POKORNY >from Bohemia, Moravia and Vienna but
GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL victims appear to be mainly of Polish and Galician
origin.

Could our craftsmen GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL >from Hermanuv Mestec perhaps
have been immigrants >from Poland/Galicia? I will have to check the 1793
census to see how many more there are with these names and if so, where
they lived. This might hopefully tie in with one or two recent postings about
Galician immigrants to Bohemia and Moravia.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Professions and family names in Hermanuv Mestec #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

David Laufer writes: "If he [KLEPPER] was a knacker, perhaps he worked in
close cooperation with a leather merchant. Were there any LEDERERs in
Hermanuv Mestec?"

This little Jewish community in the Chrudimer Kreis, Bohemia is very
interesting. It comprises of 71 families with Schutz, and three without -
a Jewish population of about 300 in 1793. It is full of Hausierer [peddlers],
Schnittwaren [fabric lengths] dealers and tailors/dressmakers. A veritable
hive of activity.

There is only one baker - the widow Ester LUSTIGEN. You would have to visit
house No 19 to buy your fresh rolls, daily or perhaps just on Fridays for
the special Sabbath bread.

There are two raw leather merchants: Joseph LEDERER [house No 49] with
wife Rosalia, son Beer and two daughters Sara and Susanna. The other leather
dealer is Isak POKORNY, married to Ester.

I have another surprise for David - there is a Nathan KLOPERER - [o umlaut]
who is a glovemaker. The bookbinder, obviously a purchaser of leather, is
Moissess [sic] BRUK [umlaut]. The cobbler is called Isak HOFMANN - and he
has a wife and four daughters!

The glazier is convenienty called Abraham GLASSMANN [house No 51] and he
has a son Philip and daughter Martha.

There are also two widows named BANDLERIN and a BANDLER family [bandl =
tapes and ribbons,] who should by their names be Posamentierer, but they are
Schnittwaren dealers! The actual Posamentierer are called Dawid FISCHER
[house No 36], Dawid SPITZ [house No 53] and Jakob LEBENTHAL. Imagine,
three Posamentierer in this tiny community in 1793. In Vienna today,
according to Viennese Fred Posamentir [I have his permission to quote]
there is only one - presumably because fashions have changed and a Swedish
store, with a four-lettered name starting with *I*, has taken over with
ready-made blinds and curtains.

I believe that the most important leather merchant is Bernard POLAK who
lives in the Herrschaft but in Moraschitz [Morasice] - he has the
Moraschitz leather concession; his birthplace is given as Schebekow/
Sebekovice [okr Trebic].

So here in Hermanuv Mestec/Herzman Mniestez we do have two professions
represented - a glazier and a leather dealer with the appropriate family
names: GLASSMANN and LEDERER.

I checked our message archives and there is not one reference to GLASSMANN,
but we do have have many LEDERER hits since the SIG commenced. Our keen
Sigger, Peter Lowe [U.K.] also has a family connection to this area
[please search our archives with keyword *Hermanuv*]. GLASSMANN does not
appear on the JGFF either under Czech Republic. There is only one GLASSMANN
from Poland and many GLASSMAN mainly >from Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Russia
and Latvia.

LEBENTHAL has one hit on the JGFF >from Poland. POKORNY has one hit >from
our SIG [Puklitz Moravia]. The other JGFF *POKORNY* hits are for Poland
and Slovakia.

I have checked out these names on Yad Vashem as well -there are very many
tragic victims called POKORNY >from Bohemia, Moravia and Vienna but
GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL victims appear to be mainly of Polish and Galician
origin.

Could our craftsmen GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL >from Hermanuv Mestec perhaps
have been immigrants >from Poland/Galicia? I will have to check the 1793
census to see how many more there are with these names and if so, where
they lived. This might hopefully tie in with one or two recent postings about
Galician immigrants to Bohemia and Moravia.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Polish translation request - 2 words, "Skory (cuirs)" #general

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

Bernie the two words mean the same. You don't give a date for the
Business Directory but I will assume that it >from the inter-war
years. These earlier Directories were written in both Polish and French.
Skory - Polish = leathers / hides
Cuirs - French = leathers

As a trade / business it would translate as "Leather Goods".

Susana Leistner Bloch

At 01:00 AM 8/4/2005,Bernard Kouchel wrote :

I'd appreciate translation of these two words as found in
Poland business directory. An occupation or industry?
Definitions were not found in online translators.

Skory (cuirs) --- [w/ accent ' over o]

Thanks!
--
Bernard Kouchel
koosh@...


Re: Polish translation request - 2 words, "Skory (cuirs)" #general

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

Bernie the two words mean the same. You don't give a date for the
Business Directory but I will assume that it >from the inter-war
years. These earlier Directories were written in both Polish and French.
Skory - Polish = leathers / hides
Cuirs - French = leathers

As a trade / business it would translate as "Leather Goods".

Susana Leistner Bloch

At 01:00 AM 8/4/2005,Bernard Kouchel wrote :

I'd appreciate translation of these two words as found in
Poland business directory. An occupation or industry?
Definitions were not found in online translators.

Skory (cuirs) --- [w/ accent ' over o]

Thanks!
--
Bernard Kouchel
koosh@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Longitudes Seem to be off by about 17 Degrees #general

M&M Schejtman <m&mschejtman@...>
 

Until 1884 there was no set 0 longitude location (prime meridian). As long
as the cartographer said where he was measuring >from that was OK.
The most famous places aside >from Greenwich, are Philadelphia, Jerusalem
and Ferro (Ferro is the smallest and furthest south and west of the Canary
Islands which are just off Northern Africa). Ferro was called for a very
long time the prime meridian (except by the British).
In 1884 the international meridian conference decided that Greenwich
England will be the universal prime meridian.

So when reading a map look at the bottom so you can gather all the
information correctly.

Merav Schejtman
Jerusalem

===A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) , 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?

Steven B. Tesser


Re: Longitudes Seem to be off by about 17 Degrees #general

M&M Schejtman <m&mschejtman@...>
 

Until 1884 there was no set 0 longitude location (prime meridian). As long
as the cartographer said where he was measuring >from that was OK.
The most famous places aside >from Greenwich, are Philadelphia, Jerusalem
and Ferro (Ferro is the smallest and furthest south and west of the Canary
Islands which are just off Northern Africa). Ferro was called for a very
long time the prime meridian (except by the British).
In 1884 the international meridian conference decided that Greenwich
England will be the universal prime meridian.

So when reading a map look at the bottom so you can gather all the
information correctly.

Merav Schejtman
Jerusalem

===A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) , 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?

Steven B. Tesser


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Rozhnyatov YB (Perehinsko, Stryj, Dolina, Bolkhov, Kalush, #general

Thomas F. Weiss
 

Dear JGenners,

Thanks to a generous grant >from Gesher Galicia, we have been
able to translate a substantial remaining portion of the YIzkor Book
for Rozhnyatov. Most of the YB is now translated and available at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Rozniatow/Rozhnyatov.html . The text
has been translated by Jerrold Landau with help >from Isak Shteyn, and
the material handled efficiently by Joyce Field and Lance Ackerfeld.
It is a pleasure to acknowledge these contributions, which have made
the results available to all who wish to learn more about Rozhnyatov
and the surrounding communities.

But, we urgently need your help to complete the translation
promptly. If you wish to contribute to the book's translation over
the web, please click on JewishGen's secure fund raiser page and be
sure to select Rozhnyatov

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

I urge you to also contribute an additional amount to JewishGen,
which provides, at no charge, all of the expensive infrastructure for
this project and all the many others that we all enjoy.

For those who feel uncomfortable using credit cards on the web, you
can always simply mail a check (or send a fax with credit card info)
payable to JewishGen, Inc. (with a note earmarking the funds for the
Rozhnyatov Yizkor Book Project) to:

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Dr,, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573
U.S./Canada Fax # (toll free): 888-539-4362
International Fax #: 1-281-535-2204

Please note that JewishGen, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c) 3
organization; therefore, you may be able to claim an income tax
deduction for any donations, depending on your personal tax situation.

Many thanks for you indulgence and I apologize if you receive
multiple copies of this fund raising email.
--
Thomas Fischer Weiss
Newton, MA
USA
tfweiss@...
Researching:
FRENKEL (Buchach, Vienna); BUCHHALTER (Skalat); ENGEL (Vienna);
FISCHER (Hriskov, Schlan, Prague); FRAENKEL, FRUCHTER (Rozhnyatov,
Vienna); KATZ (Schlan); KLEPETAR (Jistebnice); MEISELS (Nadworna,
Vienna); OLLOP (Vienna); ORLIK (Pohor, Jistebnice, Benesov, Tabor);
QUADRATSTEIN (Vienna, Saarbrucken); VODICKA (Dobronitz, Jistebnice,
Benesov, Tabor)


Rozhnyatov YB (Perehinsko, Stryj, Dolina, Bolkhov, Kalush, #general

Thomas F. Weiss
 

Dear JGenners,

Thanks to a generous grant >from Gesher Galicia, we have been
able to translate a substantial remaining portion of the YIzkor Book
for Rozhnyatov. Most of the YB is now translated and available at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Rozniatow/Rozhnyatov.html . The text
has been translated by Jerrold Landau with help >from Isak Shteyn, and
the material handled efficiently by Joyce Field and Lance Ackerfeld.
It is a pleasure to acknowledge these contributions, which have made
the results available to all who wish to learn more about Rozhnyatov
and the surrounding communities.

But, we urgently need your help to complete the translation
promptly. If you wish to contribute to the book's translation over
the web, please click on JewishGen's secure fund raiser page and be
sure to select Rozhnyatov

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

I urge you to also contribute an additional amount to JewishGen,
which provides, at no charge, all of the expensive infrastructure for
this project and all the many others that we all enjoy.

For those who feel uncomfortable using credit cards on the web, you
can always simply mail a check (or send a fax with credit card info)
payable to JewishGen, Inc. (with a note earmarking the funds for the
Rozhnyatov Yizkor Book Project) to:

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Dr,, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573
U.S./Canada Fax # (toll free): 888-539-4362
International Fax #: 1-281-535-2204

Please note that JewishGen, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c) 3
organization; therefore, you may be able to claim an income tax
deduction for any donations, depending on your personal tax situation.

Many thanks for you indulgence and I apologize if you receive
multiple copies of this fund raising email.
--
Thomas Fischer Weiss
Newton, MA
USA
tfweiss@...
Researching:
FRENKEL (Buchach, Vienna); BUCHHALTER (Skalat); ENGEL (Vienna);
FISCHER (Hriskov, Schlan, Prague); FRAENKEL, FRUCHTER (Rozhnyatov,
Vienna); KATZ (Schlan); KLEPETAR (Jistebnice); MEISELS (Nadworna,
Vienna); OLLOP (Vienna); ORLIK (Pohor, Jistebnice, Benesov, Tabor);
QUADRATSTEIN (Vienna, Saarbrucken); VODICKA (Dobronitz, Jistebnice,
Benesov, Tabor)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Town Name "Chnigavigaberna"? (LUBINSKY/ROSSIN) #general

Janice Sellers <janice@...>
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice Sellers
Oakland, California

Researching ORLOWSKY (Gluchow, Bachmach), LUBINSKY, OBERSTEIN (Grodno),
PEREDEIKO/TEREDEIKO (Grodno)


Town Name "Chnigavigaberna"? (LUBINSKY/ROSSIN) #general

Janice Sellers <janice@...>
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice Sellers
Oakland, California

Researching ORLOWSKY (Gluchow, Bachmach), LUBINSKY, OBERSTEIN (Grodno),
PEREDEIKO/TEREDEIKO (Grodno)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Same people marrying twice - 3 days apart!? #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

<It would certainly be true >from what he says that a marriage of a Jew and a
Christian would technically be possible in a church although both parties
were not baptised.>

Jessie Kyezor, daughter of Louis Kyezor, married David Kauffman on 11
January 1844 at Willesden Paraish Church (London). The bride, and possibly the
groom also, was under age and this was probably an elopement. The church
authorities made hardly any attempt to check the couple's details. Thus their
address was given as Willesden whereas in fact they lived in central London. In
May 1844 the couple were again married, at the bride's address, 16 Tottenham
Court Road, under the auspices of the Maiden Lane Synagogue.

Harold Pollins
Oxford


Re: Same people marrying twice - 3 days apart!? #general

HPOLLINS@...
 

<It would certainly be true >from what he says that a marriage of a Jew and a
Christian would technically be possible in a church although both parties
were not baptised.>

Jessie Kyezor, daughter of Louis Kyezor, married David Kauffman on 11
January 1844 at Willesden Paraish Church (London). The bride, and possibly the
groom also, was under age and this was probably an elopement. The church
authorities made hardly any attempt to check the couple's details. Thus their
address was given as Willesden whereas in fact they lived in central London. In
May 1844 the couple were again married, at the bride's address, 16 Tottenham
Court Road, under the auspices of the Maiden Lane Synagogue.

Harold Pollins
Oxford


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What is "nee" in Polish? #general

Mark Halpern
 

In response to Steven's first issue:

"r" is for recte, which is Latin for correctly. So Hilzenrad r Nagler
means the surname Hilzenrad was used, but legally the surname Nagler
should have been used. Your assumption of Hilzenrad being the father's
surname and Nagler being the mother's surname is probably correct, but
you really need to interpret the "r" or recte based on the other facts
for the family. If the child was illegitimate (nieslubne in Polish),
your assumption is more credible.

"f" is for false, also a Latin term. Nagler f Hilzenrad for an
illegitimate child would likely mean that the father was Hilzenrad and
mother was Nagler, but this must be in context. There are no hard and
fast rules and has nothing to do with the Polish language.

I have seen many of these types of records >from Galicia and the
inconsistency of use >from town to town and registrar to registrar amazes
me.

To find more discussion of recte and false, search the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archives and the SIG Lists message Archive, especially
the Galicia SIG list.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
In going through some JRI-Poland records, I found a couple of
abbreviations that I think I have interpreted, so I wanted to pass it
by you.

A child may have his surname listed as "Hilzenrad r Nagler" if his
father's surname is Hilzenrad and his mom was a Nagler. But the "f" is
the opposite. If Dave Chaskel and Lucy Rubinstein had a bouncing baby
boy Itzchok, his name would be Itzchok Rubinstein f Nagler.

So the rule seems to be [first name] + [father's name] r [mother's
name]

and

[first name] + [mother's name] f [father's name].

It probably makes sense in Polish.

Steven B. Tesser

MODERATOR NOTE: The JewishGen Discussion Group archive can be found here:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop
And the SIG archives can be found here:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Re: What is "nee" in Polish? #general

Mark Halpern
 

In response to Steven's first issue:

"r" is for recte, which is Latin for correctly. So Hilzenrad r Nagler
means the surname Hilzenrad was used, but legally the surname Nagler
should have been used. Your assumption of Hilzenrad being the father's
surname and Nagler being the mother's surname is probably correct, but
you really need to interpret the "r" or recte based on the other facts
for the family. If the child was illegitimate (nieslubne in Polish),
your assumption is more credible.

"f" is for false, also a Latin term. Nagler f Hilzenrad for an
illegitimate child would likely mean that the father was Hilzenrad and
mother was Nagler, but this must be in context. There are no hard and
fast rules and has nothing to do with the Polish language.

I have seen many of these types of records >from Galicia and the
inconsistency of use >from town to town and registrar to registrar amazes
me.

To find more discussion of recte and false, search the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archives and the SIG Lists message Archive, especially
the Galicia SIG list.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
In going through some JRI-Poland records, I found a couple of
abbreviations that I think I have interpreted, so I wanted to pass it
by you.

A child may have his surname listed as "Hilzenrad r Nagler" if his
father's surname is Hilzenrad and his mom was a Nagler. But the "f" is
the opposite. If Dave Chaskel and Lucy Rubinstein had a bouncing baby
boy Itzchok, his name would be Itzchok Rubinstein f Nagler.

So the rule seems to be [first name] + [father's name] r [mother's
name]

and

[first name] + [mother's name] f [father's name].

It probably makes sense in Polish.

Steven B. Tesser

MODERATOR NOTE: The JewishGen Discussion Group archive can be found here:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop
And the SIG archives can be found here:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish translation help please #general

RGerber <rgerber30@...>
 

I have posted the writing >from the back of a photo of a man and a woman.
The date of the photo is 30 May 1959 (in Russian). Could some kind soul please
tell me what is written in Yiddish?

Here is the direct link:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/all/viewmateview.asp?key=6531

Please respond privately to
rgerber30@...

Thanks!

-Rebecca Gerber


Yiddish translation help please #general

RGerber <rgerber30@...>
 

I have posted the writing >from the back of a photo of a man and a woman.
The date of the photo is 30 May 1959 (in Russian). Could some kind soul please
tell me what is written in Yiddish?

Here is the direct link:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/all/viewmateview.asp?key=6531

Please respond privately to
rgerber30@...

Thanks!

-Rebecca Gerber


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The name "Bunem"and its origins #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/4/2005 12:23:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
simonb@... writes:

< If I recall correctly, several years ago a similar thread occupied both
Michael and myself on the names Bunim and Simcha.

< The juxtaposition of Bunim/Bonim with Simcha is rather constant, and
although Simcha appears sometimes as a solitary name, the name of Bunim
alone is uncommon and I know only of a 19th century commentator of the Torah
and a theatre director in Israel (that Bunim is his family name).

< On the other hand the "double name" Simche Bunim has deep rabbinical
roots: Reb Simcha Bunim of Pshischa, the ADMO"R >from Goor Rabbi Simche
Bunim Alter, . . . and many more. My great-uncle used to explain that this
double name comes >from the biblical quote "Em habanim smecha" (The mother of
sons is happy) and ment to be given originally to a male born after several
female siblings

==Thank you, Shimon for reminding me. I'm getting scatterbrained in my old
age.

==And thank you for giving your great-uncle's explanation (I don't recall
hearing that >from you)--which explains much more. If I'm going a little off
standard genealogy, I beg indulgence, because what we have here is so typical of
how both Jewish stories and Jewish names are derived, changed or connected.

=="Em habanim smecha, Halleluyah!" (The mother of sons is happy), is the
second half of the last verse of Psalm 113; the first half is "Moshivi `akeret
habayit" (He provides seating for the barren woman of the house). The entire
verse is taken to mean that God will provide for the barren woman, i.e. the
socially isolated, or not valued enough. It is seen symbolically as referring
to the Israelites as a group and to Jacob's wife, Rachel, in particular, she
who was so desolate because she had no children. Ultimately she gave birth
to Joseph, and later to Benjamin "the son at my right side," Jacob's youngest.

==Which gives us a graphic explanation why, aside >from the similar
pronunciation, Bunem and Binyumen (Benjamin) are paired, and also Bunem and
Simcha, (The Bunem-Simcha pairing is to be found more in Eastern Europe--which
is why it escaped my mind.)

==and, I might add, that I find a parallel delight in coupling genealogy and
Jewish lore: they work in similar ways and each discovery gives so much warm
excitement, "it fits!".

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: The name "Bunem"and its origins #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/4/2005 12:23:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
simonb@... writes:

< If I recall correctly, several years ago a similar thread occupied both
Michael and myself on the names Bunim and Simcha.

< The juxtaposition of Bunim/Bonim with Simcha is rather constant, and
although Simcha appears sometimes as a solitary name, the name of Bunim
alone is uncommon and I know only of a 19th century commentator of the Torah
and a theatre director in Israel (that Bunim is his family name).

< On the other hand the "double name" Simche Bunim has deep rabbinical
roots: Reb Simcha Bunim of Pshischa, the ADMO"R >from Goor Rabbi Simche
Bunim Alter, . . . and many more. My great-uncle used to explain that this
double name comes >from the biblical quote "Em habanim smecha" (The mother of
sons is happy) and ment to be given originally to a male born after several
female siblings

==Thank you, Shimon for reminding me. I'm getting scatterbrained in my old
age.

==And thank you for giving your great-uncle's explanation (I don't recall
hearing that >from you)--which explains much more. If I'm going a little off
standard genealogy, I beg indulgence, because what we have here is so typical of
how both Jewish stories and Jewish names are derived, changed or connected.

=="Em habanim smecha, Halleluyah!" (The mother of sons is happy), is the
second half of the last verse of Psalm 113; the first half is "Moshivi `akeret
habayit" (He provides seating for the barren woman of the house). The entire
verse is taken to mean that God will provide for the barren woman, i.e. the
socially isolated, or not valued enough. It is seen symbolically as referring
to the Israelites as a group and to Jacob's wife, Rachel, in particular, she
who was so desolate because she had no children. Ultimately she gave birth
to Joseph, and later to Benjamin "the son at my right side," Jacob's youngest.

==Which gives us a graphic explanation why, aside >from the similar
pronunciation, Bunem and Binyumen (Benjamin) are paired, and also Bunem and
Simcha, (The Bunem-Simcha pairing is to be found more in Eastern Europe--which
is why it escaped my mind.)

==and, I might add, that I find a parallel delight in coupling genealogy and
Jewish lore: they work in similar ways and each discovery gives so much warm
excitement, "it fits!".

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The name "Bunem"and its origins #general

Simon Barak
 

If I recall correctly, several years ago a similar thread occupied both
Michael and myself on the names Bunim and Simcha.
The juxtaposition of Bunim/Bonim with Simcha is rather constant, and
although Simcha appears sometimes as a solitary name, the name of Bunim
alone is uncommon and I know only of a 19th century commentator of the
Torah and a theatre director in Israel (that Bunim is his family name).
On the other hand the "double name" Simche Bunim has deep rabbinical
roots: Reb Simcha Bunim of Pshischa, the ADMO"R >from Goor Rabbi Simche
Bunim Alter, Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, Rabbi Simcha Bunim of Prashschka,
the author of Kol Simcha, Rabbi Simcha Bunim Schreiber, grandson
of the Chatam Sofer, and many more.
My great-uncle used to explain that this double name comes >from the
biblical quote "Em habanim smecha" (The mother of sons is happy) and
ment to be given originally to a male born after several female siblings

Dr Shimon Barak - Tel Aviv, Israel.
Researching the following surnames:
BARG, BARK, BARCK, BERG (Anywhere but especially Ukraine & Argentina;
please visit our Homepage at www.geocities.com/bargfamily/)
MAURER, NEUMANN (Drohobycz, Boryslaw and Lwow)
TACHMAN, TAJMAN, TAKHMAN (Chisinau, Argentina)
HOLZMANN (Przasnysz, Poland and Israel)
SILBERSTEIN (Warsaw and Tel Aviv)

MBernet@... wrote:
In a message dated 8/3/2005 1:29:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@... writes:

< I found >from Rabbi Bernard Susser's website about Devon and
Cornwall that Bunem is >from Medieval (or some such) French "bonhomme".>

==It is now generally agreed, on the recent accumulation of evidence, that
the name is derived >from French (Bon nom) or Spanish translations of the
common Hebrew name ShemTov (good name or good reputation). Beider agrees with
this view.

==There is no common Hebrew equivalent of bonhomme/Good Man. There are two
more "youthful" forms, BenTov (good boy/son) and ElemTov (good youth) [or
TovElem] in Hebrew, Belinfante in Spanish, Bonfils in French.

==Because of the auditory similarity, the names Bunem and Binyamin are often
intertwined among Ashkenazi males. There is no other connection between
these two.


Re: The name "Bunem"and its origins #general

Simon Barak
 

If I recall correctly, several years ago a similar thread occupied both
Michael and myself on the names Bunim and Simcha.
The juxtaposition of Bunim/Bonim with Simcha is rather constant, and
although Simcha appears sometimes as a solitary name, the name of Bunim
alone is uncommon and I know only of a 19th century commentator of the
Torah and a theatre director in Israel (that Bunim is his family name).
On the other hand the "double name" Simche Bunim has deep rabbinical
roots: Reb Simcha Bunim of Pshischa, the ADMO"R >from Goor Rabbi Simche
Bunim Alter, Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, Rabbi Simcha Bunim of Prashschka,
the author of Kol Simcha, Rabbi Simcha Bunim Schreiber, grandson
of the Chatam Sofer, and many more.
My great-uncle used to explain that this double name comes >from the
biblical quote "Em habanim smecha" (The mother of sons is happy) and
ment to be given originally to a male born after several female siblings

Dr Shimon Barak - Tel Aviv, Israel.
Researching the following surnames:
BARG, BARK, BARCK, BERG (Anywhere but especially Ukraine & Argentina;
please visit our Homepage at www.geocities.com/bargfamily/)
MAURER, NEUMANN (Drohobycz, Boryslaw and Lwow)
TACHMAN, TAJMAN, TAKHMAN (Chisinau, Argentina)
HOLZMANN (Przasnysz, Poland and Israel)
SILBERSTEIN (Warsaw and Tel Aviv)

MBernet@... wrote:
In a message dated 8/3/2005 1:29:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tulse04-news@... writes:

< I found >from Rabbi Bernard Susser's website about Devon and
Cornwall that Bunem is >from Medieval (or some such) French "bonhomme".>

==It is now generally agreed, on the recent accumulation of evidence, that
the name is derived >from French (Bon nom) or Spanish translations of the
common Hebrew name ShemTov (good name or good reputation). Beider agrees with
this view.

==There is no common Hebrew equivalent of bonhomme/Good Man. There are two
more "youthful" forms, BenTov (good boy/son) and ElemTov (good youth) [or
TovElem] in Hebrew, Belinfante in Spanish, Bonfils in French.

==Because of the auditory similarity, the names Bunem and Binyamin are often
intertwined among Ashkenazi males. There is no other connection between
these two.