Date   

Re: Shtetl Bodiecha #general

Pavel Bernshtam <pavelb@...>
 

I know that records in passengers lists ussually have very bad wandwriting,
so it may be Berdichev - a town near Zhitomir.

Pavel Bernshtam

"sylvia nusinov" <curiousyl@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

Genners - Today, in reading a newly found Immigration and Passenger List for
my Father-in Law's brother and his brother's family, I noted their Place
of Birth: Russia, City or Town: Bodiecha.

All other documents pertaining to my Husband's family list Jitomir/Zhitomir,
in the Volhynia guberniya as their birthplace.
Is Bodiecha a village, a dorf - in the same area?

I checked Shtetl Finder, GaliciaSig's website and several other research
pages, without success.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Shtetl Bodiecha #general

Pavel Bernshtam <pavelb@...>
 

I know that records in passengers lists ussually have very bad wandwriting,
so it may be Berdichev - a town near Zhitomir.

Pavel Bernshtam

"sylvia nusinov" <curiousyl@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

Genners - Today, in reading a newly found Immigration and Passenger List for
my Father-in Law's brother and his brother's family, I noted their Place
of Birth: Russia, City or Town: Bodiecha.

All other documents pertaining to my Husband's family list Jitomir/Zhitomir,
in the Volhynia guberniya as their birthplace.
Is Bodiecha a village, a dorf - in the same area?

I checked Shtetl Finder, GaliciaSig's website and several other research
pages, without success.


WAJSENBERG #belarus

mark
 

shalom I am searching WAJSENBERG lived in Lodz Bialystok Zelechow Warsaw
BRANDWAJN lived in Ostrog Zdolbunow
BEJZMAN >from Novograd Volynskij
Wajsenberg Mark
Israel
mark306@bezeqint.net

MODERATOR NOTE: It would be more helpful if you could explain what you are
looking for and where you have already searched!


Aizik and Itzik #belarus

MJGerver@...
 

Moshe Shavit writes, 26 Aug 2004,

But Isaak and Aisik are the same name: the
name of our second father, the son of Abraham. The original > Hebrew pronounciation of the name is Yitzchak (=will laugh) > as Sarah laughed hearing the 3 angels predicting her
pregnancy (Gen. 18.12).
This is true, but Itzik and Aizik are separate Yiddish names, although they both come >from the Hebrew name Yitzchak. My great-great-grandfather had a brother named Itzik, and another brother named Aizik. They were definitely different people.

The situation is similar to the names Jane, Jean, and Joan in English, all of which come >from John (originally >from Yochanan), but are now considered separate names. There are other examples of this among Yiddish names too, for example Yosef and Yospe. There is a Yospe on my family tree whose father's name was Yosef. The story I heard was that his parents wanted to name him after another Yosef who had died, but since his father's name was Yosef, they named him Yospe instead.

I think Shayna and Shayndel may be another example. I used to think that Shayndel was just a nickname for Shayna, but I noticed that my great-grandmother's headstone lists her name as "Shayndel," which suggests that it was not considered just a nickname.

I have seen it suggested (I think by the late Rabbi Shmuel Gorr) that Aizik does not come >from Yitzchak at all, but >from Isaiah, but this seems implausible to me.

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


Belarus SIG #Belarus WAJSENBERG #belarus

mark
 

shalom I am searching WAJSENBERG lived in Lodz Bialystok Zelechow Warsaw
BRANDWAJN lived in Ostrog Zdolbunow
BEJZMAN >from Novograd Volynskij
Wajsenberg Mark
Israel
mark306@bezeqint.net

MODERATOR NOTE: It would be more helpful if you could explain what you are
looking for and where you have already searched!


Belarus SIG #Belarus Aizik and Itzik #belarus

MJGerver@...
 

Moshe Shavit writes, 26 Aug 2004,

But Isaak and Aisik are the same name: the
name of our second father, the son of Abraham. The original > Hebrew pronounciation of the name is Yitzchak (=will laugh) > as Sarah laughed hearing the 3 angels predicting her
pregnancy (Gen. 18.12).
This is true, but Itzik and Aizik are separate Yiddish names, although they both come >from the Hebrew name Yitzchak. My great-great-grandfather had a brother named Itzik, and another brother named Aizik. They were definitely different people.

The situation is similar to the names Jane, Jean, and Joan in English, all of which come >from John (originally >from Yochanan), but are now considered separate names. There are other examples of this among Yiddish names too, for example Yosef and Yospe. There is a Yospe on my family tree whose father's name was Yosef. The story I heard was that his parents wanted to name him after another Yosef who had died, but since his father's name was Yosef, they named him Yospe instead.

I think Shayna and Shayndel may be another example. I used to think that Shayndel was just a nickname for Shayna, but I noticed that my great-grandmother's headstone lists her name as "Shayndel," which suggests that it was not considered just a nickname.

I have seen it suggested (I think by the late Rabbi Shmuel Gorr) that Aizik does not come >from Yitzchak at all, but >from Isaiah, but this seems implausible to me.

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


Re: Unusual Surnames Related? #belarus

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

I second Orrin Tilevitz's post on not assuming relationships just
because of similar unusual surnames, based on our own family's
research experience. TREIGERs galore showed up unexpectedly in
regional records (Ukraine), yet only one of the 90 is definitely our
family. Others do not have our traditional given names, but form
groups with their own with repeated given names. They might
eventually prove out, but not on what we've got so far.

So, basically, it ain't over the archivist stamps, so to speak. As
Poirot said, assume nothing.

Michelle Frager, NY area:
TREIGER (FRAGER), SIROTA, ZEKTSER, BRONSHTEIN, SIBELBERG (sic),
SHVAISBERG/SCHWEISBERG in Ukraine, Bessarabia, Romania


--- Orrin Tilevitz <otilevitz@divgroup.com> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fran Segall asks whether everyone with the same unusual surname in
the
same town was related, and whether a particular given name attached
to
that surname described a unique person. Not necessarily. We found

someone with my gf's name in a city directory in an adjoining town,
but
the profession was wrong and we think he was too young to have
established himself at that time. They could have been cousins,
named
after the same person. And there were several families with
ourunusual
surname in my gf's part of Belarus with, so far, no apparent
relation to us.

Orrin Tilevitz
Brooklyn, NY

Researching TILEVICH (and variants) in and around Krucha


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Unusual Surnames Related? #belarus

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

I second Orrin Tilevitz's post on not assuming relationships just
because of similar unusual surnames, based on our own family's
research experience. TREIGERs galore showed up unexpectedly in
regional records (Ukraine), yet only one of the 90 is definitely our
family. Others do not have our traditional given names, but form
groups with their own with repeated given names. They might
eventually prove out, but not on what we've got so far.

So, basically, it ain't over the archivist stamps, so to speak. As
Poirot said, assume nothing.

Michelle Frager, NY area:
TREIGER (FRAGER), SIROTA, ZEKTSER, BRONSHTEIN, SIBELBERG (sic),
SHVAISBERG/SCHWEISBERG in Ukraine, Bessarabia, Romania


--- Orrin Tilevitz <otilevitz@divgroup.com> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fran Segall asks whether everyone with the same unusual surname in
the
same town was related, and whether a particular given name attached
to
that surname described a unique person. Not necessarily. We found

someone with my gf's name in a city directory in an adjoining town,
but
the profession was wrong and we think he was too young to have
established himself at that time. They could have been cousins,
named
after the same person. And there were several families with
ourunusual
surname in my gf's part of Belarus with, so far, no apparent
relation to us.

Orrin Tilevitz
Brooklyn, NY

Researching TILEVICH (and variants) in and around Krucha


Re: Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - Y B #belarus

Dinberg Donna <donna.dinberg@...>
 

Folks,

Since it is unlikely that a used copy of this Yizkor would be available for
donation to an individual (most copies held by libraries and other
repositories would not become available), and since the cost of obtaining
the original will be high through any used book dealer, I suggest two
alternates that may be useful to others, also.

This Yizkor has been made available as a print-on-demand title through the
National Yiddish Book Center's Steven Speilberg Digital Yiddish Library.
(See the entry by searching >from this page: http://www.bikher.org/+yb)

The Center also has some books for sale at lower prices:

"Many of the titles listed in this catalog are also available as used books
for $16. Most are shelf-worn but sound and complete; sometimes the paper is
yellow or brittle. Although not always suitable for the rigors of library
use, used books are often an excellent value for students (and collectors).
To check the availability of a particular used title or titles, please email
us at <orders@bikher.org>"

Perhaps this Yizkor is available as a used book >from this source. Since
this is a Yizkor book, it is not likely available but is worth a try.

Alternately, the Polish gentleman and his fellow Rubiezewiczers could
purchase a single copy of the print-on-demand version, with the cost shared
amongst them. If our friend wants to own the book himself, he might arrange
to pay back to his friends their portions of the cost over time. In this
way, the book becomes affordable, he ends up with the book, and everyone has
access to something that was originally out of reach. Collaboration can be
very useful!

Regards,
Donna Dinberg
Librarian, JGS of Ottawa
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
donna.dinberg@lac-bac.gc.ca


Belarus SIG #Belarus RE: Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - Y B #belarus

Dinberg Donna <donna.dinberg@...>
 

Folks,

Since it is unlikely that a used copy of this Yizkor would be available for
donation to an individual (most copies held by libraries and other
repositories would not become available), and since the cost of obtaining
the original will be high through any used book dealer, I suggest two
alternates that may be useful to others, also.

This Yizkor has been made available as a print-on-demand title through the
National Yiddish Book Center's Steven Speilberg Digital Yiddish Library.
(See the entry by searching >from this page: http://www.bikher.org/+yb)

The Center also has some books for sale at lower prices:

"Many of the titles listed in this catalog are also available as used books
for $16. Most are shelf-worn but sound and complete; sometimes the paper is
yellow or brittle. Although not always suitable for the rigors of library
use, used books are often an excellent value for students (and collectors).
To check the availability of a particular used title or titles, please email
us at <orders@bikher.org>"

Perhaps this Yizkor is available as a used book >from this source. Since
this is a Yizkor book, it is not likely available but is worth a try.

Alternately, the Polish gentleman and his fellow Rubiezewiczers could
purchase a single copy of the print-on-demand version, with the cost shared
amongst them. If our friend wants to own the book himself, he might arrange
to pay back to his friends their portions of the cost over time. In this
way, the book becomes affordable, he ends up with the book, and everyone has
access to something that was originally out of reach. Collaboration can be
very useful!

Regards,
Donna Dinberg
Librarian, JGS of Ottawa
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
donna.dinberg@lac-bac.gc.ca


Re: Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - YB #belarus

Joyce Field
 

the book is available as a digital reprint >from the National Yiddish
Book Center. Perhaps someone wants to purchase it and donate it to
this man.

Joyce Field

At 11:31 AM -0400 8/27/04, David M. Fox wrote:
Yesterday, I received the following email >from a gentleman in Poland (please
read quoted message below. His message appears to be very sincere and I
wonder if anyone out there might have a copy of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968, that they would be willing to donate to this man or know where a
copy can be obtained at a lower price, please contact me via private email
and I will provide you with his name, address, and email.

I found the information on JewishGen website of the book entitled
"Rubiezewicze, Derevna and surroundings", the translation of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968.
It was a shoking information for me that a book devoted to my hometown was
written. I come >from Rubiezewicze, where I was born in 1936. My father,
Wincenty Witkowski had a mill and helped Jews during the World War Two. My
mother regularly provided them with bread, when Jewish ghetto was formed
nearby. The tragical dead of Jews in Rubiezewicze is still in my
memory. After
the war our family lost everything and I had to stay in Russia,
Siberia, which
I left after 20 years. Now I live in Poland.
I would like to purchase the book, but my present situation makes it
impossible. I retired and I unfortunately cannot afford to spend 100$.
Therefore, I would like to ask you: maybe you possess a used, old
copy of the
book that you could send me? It would be a great joy for me to read about my
family town and its history. I have contact with the inhabitants of
Rubiezewicze, so I would show and thanslate it to them, too.
I look forward to hearing >from you.
I hope there is some kind sole out there who can help. This man may have
information about the Jews who lived in Rubiezewicze.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - YB #belarus

Joyce Field
 

the book is available as a digital reprint >from the National Yiddish
Book Center. Perhaps someone wants to purchase it and donate it to
this man.

Joyce Field

At 11:31 AM -0400 8/27/04, David M. Fox wrote:
Yesterday, I received the following email >from a gentleman in Poland (please
read quoted message below. His message appears to be very sincere and I
wonder if anyone out there might have a copy of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968, that they would be willing to donate to this man or know where a
copy can be obtained at a lower price, please contact me via private email
and I will provide you with his name, address, and email.

I found the information on JewishGen website of the book entitled
"Rubiezewicze, Derevna and surroundings", the translation of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968.
It was a shoking information for me that a book devoted to my hometown was
written. I come >from Rubiezewicze, where I was born in 1936. My father,
Wincenty Witkowski had a mill and helped Jews during the World War Two. My
mother regularly provided them with bread, when Jewish ghetto was formed
nearby. The tragical dead of Jews in Rubiezewicze is still in my
memory. After
the war our family lost everything and I had to stay in Russia,
Siberia, which
I left after 20 years. Now I live in Poland.
I would like to purchase the book, but my present situation makes it
impossible. I retired and I unfortunately cannot afford to spend 100$.
Therefore, I would like to ask you: maybe you possess a used, old
copy of the
book that you could send me? It would be a great joy for me to read about my
family town and its history. I have contact with the inhabitants of
Rubiezewicze, so I would show and thanslate it to them, too.
I look forward to hearing >from you.
I hope there is some kind sole out there who can help. This man may have
information about the Jews who lived in Rubiezewicze.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


researh family porzycki #poland

Porzycki Leon <leon.porzycki@...>
 

I do research on my family who lived in Piotrkow Trybunalski ( Poland)
in the 19 th. century and beginning 20 th.

My grand-father PORZYCKI Mosek Berel born approximately in 1862 was
maried in 1881 with GOLDRING Braun Guilta. He
has 2 sons Chil my father and Calel (Tsalel ).
I want to know in what town him and his father PORZYCKI Tsala are born.
If somebody can help me, please to send me directly a Mail.
Thanks and best regards

Leon PORZYCKI


MODERATOR'S NOTE: The 1881 marriage record of Moszk Berek Porzycki is
in the JRI-Poland database. If you order that record, it may list the
town of birth.


JRI Poland #Poland researh family porzycki #poland

Porzycki Leon <leon.porzycki@...>
 

I do research on my family who lived in Piotrkow Trybunalski ( Poland)
in the 19 th. century and beginning 20 th.

My grand-father PORZYCKI Mosek Berel born approximately in 1862 was
maried in 1881 with GOLDRING Braun Guilta. He
has 2 sons Chil my father and Calel (Tsalel ).
I want to know in what town him and his father PORZYCKI Tsala are born.
If somebody can help me, please to send me directly a Mail.
Thanks and best regards

Leon PORZYCKI


MODERATOR'S NOTE: The 1881 marriage record of Moszk Berek Porzycki is
in the JRI-Poland database. If you order that record, it may list the
town of birth.


HIAS Database #lithuania

Marcia Goldberg <mgoldber@...>
 

How do you access the HIAS Database noted in the Belarus Sig?
How do you access Revision Lists? All I see are explanations of what they
are. Same for Tax and Voters Tables.

Marcia Goldberg
Zober (Isber) of Kovno
Fargotstein (Fargotszteyn) of Marienpole
Reitberg (Reytbord) of Bialystok

MODERATOR'S NOTE: When you search the All-Lithuania Database and Revision
Lists or Tax and Voter Tables are part of the search results, click on the
icon on the right, which indicates how many records were found, not the
icon on the left, which takes you to the explanation.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania HIAS Database #lithuania

Marcia Goldberg <mgoldber@...>
 

How do you access the HIAS Database noted in the Belarus Sig?
How do you access Revision Lists? All I see are explanations of what they
are. Same for Tax and Voters Tables.

Marcia Goldberg
Zober (Isber) of Kovno
Fargotstein (Fargotszteyn) of Marienpole
Reitberg (Reytbord) of Bialystok

MODERATOR'S NOTE: When you search the All-Lithuania Database and Revision
Lists or Tax and Voter Tables are part of the search results, click on the
icon on the right, which indicates how many records were found, not the
icon on the left, which takes you to the explanation.


re mother and daughter with same (first) name #poland

byruckfam@...
 

I believe that I have across a similar situation regarding a child having
the same name as her mother, in my own family

According to the census records in the village where my father was born
in present day Poland, my father's mother name was Chaja-Raca. According
to the same records, her mother's name was Rachel (nee Portek) and her
father was Moise Parenczev.

However, my father and his two brothers always referred to their mother as
Rachel, not as Chaja-Raca. Moreover, they believed (and wrote in an
application for a social security card) that her maiden name was Portek (the
maiden name of her mother).

In essence, then, my grandmother seemed to assume the TOTAL identity of her
own mother. However, on my grandmother's stone, in London, her name was
indeed given as Chaja Raca, daughter of Moise. so, someone in the
synagogue knew something more than the family did, apparently.

She and my father and his two brothers had already passed on when i
discovered this fact, so I had no opportunity to question anyone about it.

A partial explanation regarding the Portek/Parenczev switch was that her
parents marriage may not have been not "officially" registered, and the
offspring of such marriages were known to officials by their mother's
(maiden) name rather than their father's surname as is customary in the
west. Hence Chaja Raca was recorded in official records (the census and
emigration papers?) as Chaja Raca Portek.

As for her first name, I have heard two possible explanations:

1. her mother died in childbirth or early on and the child took over her
mother's name, for everyday usage, to honor her, although her "real"
Hebrew name did not change.
2. Rachel is one way to anglicize Chaja-Rasa, but of course on her stone her
name would be expressed accurately as she was given it at birth.

I'd be interested in any other thoughts others may have on this.

marcus byruck


JRI Poland #Poland re mother and daughter with same (first) name #poland

byruckfam@...
 

I believe that I have across a similar situation regarding a child having
the same name as her mother, in my own family

According to the census records in the village where my father was born
in present day Poland, my father's mother name was Chaja-Raca. According
to the same records, her mother's name was Rachel (nee Portek) and her
father was Moise Parenczev.

However, my father and his two brothers always referred to their mother as
Rachel, not as Chaja-Raca. Moreover, they believed (and wrote in an
application for a social security card) that her maiden name was Portek (the
maiden name of her mother).

In essence, then, my grandmother seemed to assume the TOTAL identity of her
own mother. However, on my grandmother's stone, in London, her name was
indeed given as Chaja Raca, daughter of Moise. so, someone in the
synagogue knew something more than the family did, apparently.

She and my father and his two brothers had already passed on when i
discovered this fact, so I had no opportunity to question anyone about it.

A partial explanation regarding the Portek/Parenczev switch was that her
parents marriage may not have been not "officially" registered, and the
offspring of such marriages were known to officials by their mother's
(maiden) name rather than their father's surname as is customary in the
west. Hence Chaja Raca was recorded in official records (the census and
emigration papers?) as Chaja Raca Portek.

As for her first name, I have heard two possible explanations:

1. her mother died in childbirth or early on and the child took over her
mother's name, for everyday usage, to honor her, although her "real"
Hebrew name did not change.
2. Rachel is one way to anglicize Chaja-Rasa, but of course on her stone her
name would be expressed accurately as she was given it at birth.

I'd be interested in any other thoughts others may have on this.

marcus byruck


Re: Mother and daughter with same first name #poland

foxtrot <fox.trot@...>
 

Perhaps the mother died in childbirth, and her daughter was named after
her.

Marla Deutsch
Campbell, CA

Searching: JONAS of Pleszew, Poland
TAITCH/DAITCH/DUITCH/DEUTSCH of Dunilovichi, Belarus
OHSMAN/OSHMAN/ASMAN of Belogorodka, Ukraine

Quiet please, I'm hunting forbearers.


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Mother and daughter with same first name #poland

foxtrot <fox.trot@...>
 

Perhaps the mother died in childbirth, and her daughter was named after
her.

Marla Deutsch
Campbell, CA

Searching: JONAS of Pleszew, Poland
TAITCH/DAITCH/DUITCH/DEUTSCH of Dunilovichi, Belarus
OHSMAN/OSHMAN/ASMAN of Belogorodka, Ukraine

Quiet please, I'm hunting forbearers.