Date   

Naming Conventions/ Icek Eysyk, Motel/Moszek #poland

David Ferleger
 

On Greg's name questions --

1. My wife, Rabbi Dayle Friedman, who knows a bissel Yiddish, tells
me that it is common to have a doubling of names which mean the same
thing, but are in Yiddish and, the second name, in Hebrew. For example,

Icek / Eysek = Isaac
Hersh / Tvi = Both mean deer.
Arye / Leib = Both mean lion

2. Dayle thinks that Moszek = Moses.
but she considers Motel to be >from Mordechai.
This is a bit less clear.

Others here on this list no doubt have much wisdom on this.

David Ferkeger


Re: Given name Icek Eysyk #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Greg Tuckman posted as follows:

"One of my ancestors, >from Lublin, Poland had the given name of Icek Eysyk.
I have seen this a number of times in the 19th century vital records, but
only in the city of Lublin. The spelling is always different for the first
and second name. Does anyone know if there is a meaning behind this
'double name'?"


Both of the names presented were Polish transliterations and/or variants of
Yiddish names: Icek for Itsek, and Eysyk for Aysik. The Yiddish names
Ayzek and Ayzik were Yiddish kinuim (aliases) for the Hebrew name Yitschak,
while Icek was a common Polish-spelled variant for the Hebrew name Yitschak.

What this amounts to is that it is likely that the Legal Jewish name of the
person would have been Yitschak haMechune Ayzik ben Ploni. Here
"haMechune" is a technical Hebrew term which means "known as" or "alias",
and Ploni is the Legal Given Name of the father of Yitschak Ayzik. The
above is how the Legal Jewish name would have been written in a Get (Jewish
divorce contract, or other contract, e.g., Ketuva). This person would have
been called to an aliya to the Tora using the name: "Yitschak Ayzik ben
Ploni".

Thus, Greg should be on the lookout in archival documents for the names
mentioned here, as well as other variants presented in the JewishGen Given
Names Data Base for Poland, found at the following web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/ >

Search for the Hebrew name "Yitschak" (without the quotation marks).

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


JRI Poland #Poland Naming Conventions/ Icek Eysyk, Motel/Moszek #poland

David Ferleger
 

On Greg's name questions --

1. My wife, Rabbi Dayle Friedman, who knows a bissel Yiddish, tells
me that it is common to have a doubling of names which mean the same
thing, but are in Yiddish and, the second name, in Hebrew. For example,

Icek / Eysek = Isaac
Hersh / Tvi = Both mean deer.
Arye / Leib = Both mean lion

2. Dayle thinks that Moszek = Moses.
but she considers Motel to be >from Mordechai.
This is a bit less clear.

Others here on this list no doubt have much wisdom on this.

David Ferkeger


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Given name Icek Eysyk #poland

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Greg Tuckman posted as follows:

"One of my ancestors, >from Lublin, Poland had the given name of Icek Eysyk.
I have seen this a number of times in the 19th century vital records, but
only in the city of Lublin. The spelling is always different for the first
and second name. Does anyone know if there is a meaning behind this
'double name'?"


Both of the names presented were Polish transliterations and/or variants of
Yiddish names: Icek for Itsek, and Eysyk for Aysik. The Yiddish names
Ayzek and Ayzik were Yiddish kinuim (aliases) for the Hebrew name Yitschak,
while Icek was a common Polish-spelled variant for the Hebrew name Yitschak.

What this amounts to is that it is likely that the Legal Jewish name of the
person would have been Yitschak haMechune Ayzik ben Ploni. Here
"haMechune" is a technical Hebrew term which means "known as" or "alias",
and Ploni is the Legal Given Name of the father of Yitschak Ayzik. The
above is how the Legal Jewish name would have been written in a Get (Jewish
divorce contract, or other contract, e.g., Ketuva). This person would have
been called to an aliya to the Tora using the name: "Yitschak Ayzik ben
Ploni".

Thus, Greg should be on the lookout in archival documents for the names
mentioned here, as well as other variants presented in the JewishGen Given
Names Data Base for Poland, found at the following web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/ >

Search for the Hebrew name "Yitschak" (without the quotation marks).

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


BORENSZTEJN / WOLOMIN #poland

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Searching for any members of the BORENSZTEJN (most probably changed the name
to Bronstein) family >from Wolomin, Poland.

Moshe BORENSZTEJN born appox 1890, owned a leather factory and was married
to a Chaya nee (PLATNER)

Moshe and Chaya had 5 children, only 2 survived WW2, but Moshe had at least
5 siblings - the name of only one is known - Pinchas.

If anyone has information on the BORENSZTEJNS >from Wolomin please contact
me.

Thank you.

Patricia Wilson (Israel)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland BORENSZTEJN / WOLOMIN #poland

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Searching for any members of the BORENSZTEJN (most probably changed the name
to Bronstein) family >from Wolomin, Poland.

Moshe BORENSZTEJN born appox 1890, owned a leather factory and was married
to a Chaya nee (PLATNER)

Moshe and Chaya had 5 children, only 2 survived WW2, but Moshe had at least
5 siblings - the name of only one is known - Pinchas.

If anyone has information on the BORENSZTEJNS >from Wolomin please contact
me.

Thank you.

Patricia Wilson (Israel)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Re: Queen Victoria's Tailor(s) #unitedkingdom

Aubrey Jacobus <zen28027@...>
 

Janette Levey Frisch should look in the Kelly's London trade directories
of the period - tailor with a Royal Appointment would be certainly be found
there
There are 2 Harris Woolf in the 1881 census both Polish tailors :
neither seem very affluent.
Most tailor's were journeymen outworkers and had no contact with the
actual wearer of the garments they worked on. Her great great grandfather
Harris Woolf may have indeed worked on Royal apparel worn by the Queen
because he sub-contacted >from a tailor with a Royal Appointment.
I well remember my father working on the beautiful scarlett cloaks work by
titled persons attending the coronation of George V1- unfortunately he
still
struggled to earn a living.

Aubrey Jacobus
London







----- Original Message -----
From: <Jslevey@...>
To: "JCR-UK SIG" <jcr-uk@...>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: [jcr-uk] Queen Victoria's Tailor(s)


Hi Everyone,

I believe I have an interesting question. (At least it's interesting to
me!)
I was speaking with my father yesterday and he told me that his
grandmother
mentioned us having a relative who had been a tailor for Queen Victoria.
My
great great grandfather Harris Woolf, was indeed a tailor and when I
reviewed
his naturalization papers, it was clear that he definitely was working
during
the reign of Queen Victoria.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I might try to confirm this tidbit?

Thank you,

Janette Levey Frisch

researching: Barnett, Nathan families in London area; Caro family in
Birmingham and Kleczew (Poland but then in Prussia); Woolf family from
Konin
(originally Russia, now Poland); Levy family in Birmingham, UK and Warsaw
vicinity;
Abramovitz family in Kiev vicinity. Gottesman >from Bolekhov Ukraine (then
Galicia); Rechter family (Ukraine, but then Galicia); Wilder, Bernhaut,
Schlosser in Krakow.


-------------------------------------------------------
JCR-UK is a joint project of JewishGen and the
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain
****
This group (JGsigs-ml@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

To post a message to this list use jcr-uk@...

You are currently subscribed to jcr-uk as: [zen28027@...]
To change the format of our mailings, to stop/resume delivery (vacation),
or to unsubscribe, please go to http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Queen Victoria's Tailor(s) #unitedkingdom

Aubrey Jacobus <zen28027@...>
 

Janette Levey Frisch should look in the Kelly's London trade directories
of the period - tailor with a Royal Appointment would be certainly be found
there
There are 2 Harris Woolf in the 1881 census both Polish tailors :
neither seem very affluent.
Most tailor's were journeymen outworkers and had no contact with the
actual wearer of the garments they worked on. Her great great grandfather
Harris Woolf may have indeed worked on Royal apparel worn by the Queen
because he sub-contacted >from a tailor with a Royal Appointment.
I well remember my father working on the beautiful scarlett cloaks work by
titled persons attending the coronation of George V1- unfortunately he
still
struggled to earn a living.

Aubrey Jacobus
London







----- Original Message -----
From: <Jslevey@...>
To: "JCR-UK SIG" <jcr-uk@...>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: [jcr-uk] Queen Victoria's Tailor(s)


Hi Everyone,

I believe I have an interesting question. (At least it's interesting to
me!)
I was speaking with my father yesterday and he told me that his
grandmother
mentioned us having a relative who had been a tailor for Queen Victoria.
My
great great grandfather Harris Woolf, was indeed a tailor and when I
reviewed
his naturalization papers, it was clear that he definitely was working
during
the reign of Queen Victoria.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I might try to confirm this tidbit?

Thank you,

Janette Levey Frisch

researching: Barnett, Nathan families in London area; Caro family in
Birmingham and Kleczew (Poland but then in Prussia); Woolf family from
Konin
(originally Russia, now Poland); Levy family in Birmingham, UK and Warsaw
vicinity;
Abramovitz family in Kiev vicinity. Gottesman >from Bolekhov Ukraine (then
Galicia); Rechter family (Ukraine, but then Galicia); Wilder, Bernhaut,
Schlosser in Krakow.


-------------------------------------------------------
JCR-UK is a joint project of JewishGen and the
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain
****
This group (JGsigs-ml@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

To post a message to this list use jcr-uk@...

You are currently subscribed to jcr-uk as: [zen28027@...]
To change the format of our mailings, to stop/resume delivery (vacation),
or to unsubscribe, please go to http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager


Danzig microfilm item - what is its date? #danzig #gdansk #germany #poland

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

FHL microfilm 1184410, item 2 (hereafter called List A) and the surname
adoption list published in 1817 based on Jewish citizens in Danzig in 1814
at the time of the Prussian reoccupation (hereafter called List B, online at
www.jewishgen.org/danzig/1814.php) contain many of the same names,
suggesting they were based on source material created at approximately the
same time. However, there is no contemporaneous description of List A on
the microfilm, so its precise date is unclear. In an effort to date List A,
I have compared the widows in Lists A and B, hoping to find examples of
women identified as widows in one list, but not in the other.

What I found is that 17-19 of the widows in List B appear in List A without
being identified as widows, while none of the widows in List A appear in
List B without being identified as widows. Each list contains widows (and
other people) not appearing at all in the other. This might suggest that
the source material used to compile List A predates that of List B.
However, in none of these 17-19 cases can I find definitively the husband
also in List A. If these 17-19 are correctly not identified as widows in
List A, why is it that their husbands are not listed and they are listed
together with their husbands' given names?

I wonder whether the absence of these husbands and their subsequent deaths
might be connected with the siege of Danzig that preceeded the Prussian
reoccupation of the city.

I am not comfortable dating List A at present, and hope that analysis of
vital records >from this time period will help. If you have any ideas about
this, please tell me.

Thanks and best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
Coordinator, JewishGen Danzig/Gdansk SIG
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.


Danzig/Gedansk SIG #Danzig #Gdansk #Germany #Poland Danzig microfilm item - what is its date? #danzig #gdansk #germany #poland

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

FHL microfilm 1184410, item 2 (hereafter called List A) and the surname
adoption list published in 1817 based on Jewish citizens in Danzig in 1814
at the time of the Prussian reoccupation (hereafter called List B, online at
www.jewishgen.org/danzig/1814.php) contain many of the same names,
suggesting they were based on source material created at approximately the
same time. However, there is no contemporaneous description of List A on
the microfilm, so its precise date is unclear. In an effort to date List A,
I have compared the widows in Lists A and B, hoping to find examples of
women identified as widows in one list, but not in the other.

What I found is that 17-19 of the widows in List B appear in List A without
being identified as widows, while none of the widows in List A appear in
List B without being identified as widows. Each list contains widows (and
other people) not appearing at all in the other. This might suggest that
the source material used to compile List A predates that of List B.
However, in none of these 17-19 cases can I find definitively the husband
also in List A. If these 17-19 are correctly not identified as widows in
List A, why is it that their husbands are not listed and they are listed
together with their husbands' given names?

I wonder whether the absence of these husbands and their subsequent deaths
might be connected with the siege of Danzig that preceeded the Prussian
reoccupation of the city.

I am not comfortable dating List A at present, and hope that analysis of
vital records >from this time period will help. If you have any ideas about
this, please tell me.

Thanks and best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
Coordinator, JewishGen Danzig/Gdansk SIG
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.


Attn Moderator. #unitedkingdom

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Apologies for message about Borensztejn - POLAND - SENT IN ERROR.

Patricia Wilson (Israel)


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Attn Moderator. #unitedkingdom

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Apologies for message about Borensztejn - POLAND - SENT IN ERROR.

Patricia Wilson (Israel)


Re: Bibliographical Guide to Anglo-Jewish History #unitedkingdom

jeremy frankel
 

Dear Nick,

I cannot speak to what Google you are using, but when I clicked on
the link, the page came up with no problem. The top right hand side
has the book title in three lines followed by the author's name (in
green).

Below that is a thumbnail version of the front cover and below that
is the Download button. To the right of the button is "PDF - 9.9M"
which I assume to mean 9.9Mb.

Below this are three more links: Table of Contents, Title Page and Index.

Don't know if this is what you're seeing or helps.

Good luck,

Jeremy

--
Jeremy G Frankel
ex Edgware, London, England
Berkeley, California, USA

EBIN: Russia -> New York, USA
FRANKEL: Poland -> London, England
GOLD (RATH): Praszka, Poland -> London, England
KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania -> London, England -> NYC, NY, USA
LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland -> London, England
PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland -> London, England -> NYC, NY, USA


MODERATOR NOTE: These books are unavailable for download in the United Kingdom.
They do not have a hyperlink to allow you to get to the next stage which is
most probably due to British copyright law.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Bibliographical Guide to Anglo-Jewish History #unitedkingdom

jeremy frankel
 

Dear Nick,

I cannot speak to what Google you are using, but when I clicked on
the link, the page came up with no problem. The top right hand side
has the book title in three lines followed by the author's name (in
green).

Below that is a thumbnail version of the front cover and below that
is the Download button. To the right of the button is "PDF - 9.9M"
which I assume to mean 9.9Mb.

Below this are three more links: Table of Contents, Title Page and Index.

Don't know if this is what you're seeing or helps.

Good luck,

Jeremy

--
Jeremy G Frankel
ex Edgware, London, England
Berkeley, California, USA

EBIN: Russia -> New York, USA
FRANKEL: Poland -> London, England
GOLD (RATH): Praszka, Poland -> London, England
KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania -> London, England -> NYC, NY, USA
LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland -> London, England
PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland -> London, England -> NYC, NY, USA


MODERATOR NOTE: These books are unavailable for download in the United Kingdom.
They do not have a hyperlink to allow you to get to the next stage which is
most probably due to British copyright law.


Pichols- Pickholtz #southafrica

Beryl. B <balden@...>
 

re the following message inserted on the SA SIG by Stephen Pickholtz:

Subject: Pichols
From: nj55turtle@...
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:25:47 +0000

" I am doing research on my family name PICKHOLTZ and its various spellings.
In the course of this research, I came across a reference in the English
census
of 1901,which I am trying to prove is a PICKHOLTZ variation.

It list a Morris PICHOLS, age 7, as a student at the Jew's (Jewish)
Hospital and Orphan Asylum, in England. The census also states he was born
in CAPE COLONY (South Africa). I have not been able to find any other
information on him, his parents, or how and why he ended up in England,
from any sources in England. I am hoping that this SIG, may have the
answers
I am looking for, or point me in the right direction."

Thank you.
Stephen Pickholtz
Tabernacle, New Jersey
USA
E-mail--- nj55turtle@...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the Formal Sources of the S.A. SIG are available on the following
website

http://www.jewishgen.org/SAfrica/formal_sources/index.htm

I suggest that Stephen Pickholtz and anyone else "hitting a
brick wall" should try these resources on the above site.

Further than the above, there is a wealth of information on our
website i.e. www.jewishgen.org/SAfrica/
which one must go through very carefully to find answers.

If there is no information in any of these sources, we can try another
direction. So please keep in touch with the SIG Digest.

Beryl Baleson
Israel.
balden@...


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Pichols- Pickholtz #southafrica

Beryl. B <balden@...>
 

re the following message inserted on the SA SIG by Stephen Pickholtz:

Subject: Pichols
From: nj55turtle@...
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:25:47 +0000

" I am doing research on my family name PICKHOLTZ and its various spellings.
In the course of this research, I came across a reference in the English
census
of 1901,which I am trying to prove is a PICKHOLTZ variation.

It list a Morris PICHOLS, age 7, as a student at the Jew's (Jewish)
Hospital and Orphan Asylum, in England. The census also states he was born
in CAPE COLONY (South Africa). I have not been able to find any other
information on him, his parents, or how and why he ended up in England,
from any sources in England. I am hoping that this SIG, may have the
answers
I am looking for, or point me in the right direction."

Thank you.
Stephen Pickholtz
Tabernacle, New Jersey
USA
E-mail--- nj55turtle@...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the Formal Sources of the S.A. SIG are available on the following
website

http://www.jewishgen.org/SAfrica/formal_sources/index.htm

I suggest that Stephen Pickholtz and anyone else "hitting a
brick wall" should try these resources on the above site.

Further than the above, there is a wealth of information on our
website i.e. www.jewishgen.org/SAfrica/
which one must go through very carefully to find answers.

If there is no information in any of these sources, we can try another
direction. So please keep in touch with the SIG Digest.

Beryl Baleson
Israel.
balden@...


MANASSE FAMILY - SOUTH AFRICA #southafrica

John Norton FLP <john@...>
 

Dear Sir/ madam



I have been trying to trace the origins of Franz Josef Manasse who came to
South Africa >from Breslau, Prussiain the early 1900's and became a
naturalised British Citizen. he apparently worked first in JHB, Kimberley
and lived and died in Cape Town.Does anybody have any information regarding
this man.



John


Re: Pichols #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

I am not sure who Stephen Pickholtz was referring to in his last message to
the digest as he said "Ann B" . . . was it actually "Ann R." (that's me) or
"Beryl B."?

In any event, I am responding. When you say have checked all British
records, perhaps you can be more specific in your posting. What might be
"all" records to you might not include "all" that are available.

In case you haven't checked, you should look at any materials written for
both the Jew's Hospital and Orphan Asylum School and the also the Hayes
Industrial School for Jewish Boys.

I know that various schools in England do anniversary issues about the
founding of their facilities and perhaps there is one for these schools as
well. You can check with the present facilities or the British Library. As
the Hayes School was founded in December, 1900, it is possible that Jacob S.
Pickholz was in the first class of the school.

As I stated in my message some time ago, the parents of Morris Pichols
might not have died, but only been too poor to care for him or his mother
might have died leaving his father unable to care for him. Other options
are that the family may not have lived in SA long enough to leave a paper
trail. Morris might have also left England after he graduated >from school
thereby leaving no further records in England.

As Jackob S. Pickholz, one of the boys mentioned in the 1901 Census, was an
epileptic, it is possible that he might not have lived to adulthood or died
early on in life and that is why no records exist for him. He could also
have changed his name.

I have no further suggestions regarding this matter other than to wait until
further British Census Records are publicly released which may include the
names of either of the two boys. Also, check at what age the boys would
have graduated >from the schools so that you have an idea of when they would
have gone into the regular work world.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@...


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica MANASSE FAMILY - SOUTH AFRICA #southafrica

John Norton FLP <john@...>
 

Dear Sir/ madam



I have been trying to trace the origins of Franz Josef Manasse who came to
South Africa >from Breslau, Prussiain the early 1900's and became a
naturalised British Citizen. he apparently worked first in JHB, Kimberley
and lived and died in Cape Town.Does anybody have any information regarding
this man.



John


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Pichols #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

I am not sure who Stephen Pickholtz was referring to in his last message to
the digest as he said "Ann B" . . . was it actually "Ann R." (that's me) or
"Beryl B."?

In any event, I am responding. When you say have checked all British
records, perhaps you can be more specific in your posting. What might be
"all" records to you might not include "all" that are available.

In case you haven't checked, you should look at any materials written for
both the Jew's Hospital and Orphan Asylum School and the also the Hayes
Industrial School for Jewish Boys.

I know that various schools in England do anniversary issues about the
founding of their facilities and perhaps there is one for these schools as
well. You can check with the present facilities or the British Library. As
the Hayes School was founded in December, 1900, it is possible that Jacob S.
Pickholz was in the first class of the school.

As I stated in my message some time ago, the parents of Morris Pichols
might not have died, but only been too poor to care for him or his mother
might have died leaving his father unable to care for him. Other options
are that the family may not have lived in SA long enough to leave a paper
trail. Morris might have also left England after he graduated >from school
thereby leaving no further records in England.

As Jackob S. Pickholz, one of the boys mentioned in the 1901 Census, was an
epileptic, it is possible that he might not have lived to adulthood or died
early on in life and that is why no records exist for him. He could also
have changed his name.

I have no further suggestions regarding this matter other than to wait until
further British Census Records are publicly released which may include the
names of either of the two boys. Also, check at what age the boys would
have graduated >from the schools so that you have an idea of when they would
have gone into the regular work world.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@...