Date   

Search --> MERLETTE, Paris, France #general

- - <cmbon22@...>
 

My paternal grandmother, Julienne MERLETTE, born in 1916, 12 avenue
Parmentier, 75010 Paris, was an abandoned child.

According to social services, an old man living avenue Parmentier as well as
a Jewish friend working in a sewing society, I got the following information:
Her mother was the daughter of the family owning the small fabric factory
Merlette, located Avenue Parmentier, who was a Jewish family, apparently
born out of wedlock, but in the same time it was the first world war, and
she might also be abandoned for protection.

Should you have the following information, and be willing to share it with
me, please do:
1. Is Merlette a Jewish family?
2. Do you know about the history of this family? Migration of family members
to the US or Canada.
3. Is this fabric was known dealing with leather, fabric, or the cutting.

Thank you very much, Kind regards, Cecile Bontemps
Please respond to: cmbon22@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Search --> MERLETTE, Paris, France #general

- - <cmbon22@...>
 

My paternal grandmother, Julienne MERLETTE, born in 1916, 12 avenue
Parmentier, 75010 Paris, was an abandoned child.

According to social services, an old man living avenue Parmentier as well as
a Jewish friend working in a sewing society, I got the following information:
Her mother was the daughter of the family owning the small fabric factory
Merlette, located Avenue Parmentier, who was a Jewish family, apparently
born out of wedlock, but in the same time it was the first world war, and
she might also be abandoned for protection.

Should you have the following information, and be willing to share it with
me, please do:
1. Is Merlette a Jewish family?
2. Do you know about the history of this family? Migration of family members
to the US or Canada.
3. Is this fabric was known dealing with leather, fabric, or the cutting.

Thank you very much, Kind regards, Cecile Bontemps
Please respond to: cmbon22@...


Re: Calendar changes #general

David Kravitz
 

Pope Gregory introduced the Gregorian calendar in 1582 and there was rioting
in the streets, The difference between the calendars was only 11 minutes and
16 seconds a year but had built up to 11 days over the centuries.

England (and the American colonies) changed calendars in 1752, and
Wednesday, September 2, 1752 was immediately followed by Thursday, September
14, 1752. This ange resulted in widespread riots and with the populace
demanding "Give us the eleven days back!"

Russia, did not follow suit until 1918, when January 31, 1918 was
immediately followed by February 14th. In fact, their calendar is not on the
Gregorian calendar but is in sync with it.

The French revolutionaries abandoned the Gregorian calendar in 1789 for
their own version but later went back to the Gregorian. The Grreks changed
in 1920 and there, too, was rioting. And finally a curiosity. The Greek
orthodox church in the USA clung to the Julian calendar until the 1980's and
this almost resulted in rioting in Chicago.

Chag sameach

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE: Please send any further general comments about calendar
changes privately. Responses directly relevant to genealogy will be
considered for posting.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Calendar changes #general

David Kravitz
 

Pope Gregory introduced the Gregorian calendar in 1582 and there was rioting
in the streets, The difference between the calendars was only 11 minutes and
16 seconds a year but had built up to 11 days over the centuries.

England (and the American colonies) changed calendars in 1752, and
Wednesday, September 2, 1752 was immediately followed by Thursday, September
14, 1752. This ange resulted in widespread riots and with the populace
demanding "Give us the eleven days back!"

Russia, did not follow suit until 1918, when January 31, 1918 was
immediately followed by February 14th. In fact, their calendar is not on the
Gregorian calendar but is in sync with it.

The French revolutionaries abandoned the Gregorian calendar in 1789 for
their own version but later went back to the Gregorian. The Grreks changed
in 1920 and there, too, was rioting. And finally a curiosity. The Greek
orthodox church in the USA clung to the Julian calendar until the 1980's and
this almost resulted in rioting in Chicago.

Chag sameach

David Kravitz
Netanya, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE: Please send any further general comments about calendar
changes privately. Responses directly relevant to genealogy will be
considered for posting.


Correct mailing address for Beth Olom Cemetery in Woodhaven, NY #general

Teri Tillman <natzrose@...>
 

What is the correct mailing address for Beth Olom Cemetery in Woodhaven, NY?
Last week I mailed a letter requesting burial information to the address
listed for Beth Olom on the IAJGS - Cemetery Project page at JewishGen.org
(P.O. Box 211263, Woodhaven, NY 11421). My letter has just been returned to
me as not deliverable as addressed. (Please advise if it is more effective
to write to the appropriate synagogue office rather than to the cemetery
office.)

Thank you.

Teri Tillman
Natchez, Mississippi


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Correct mailing address for Beth Olom Cemetery in Woodhaven, NY #general

Teri Tillman <natzrose@...>
 

What is the correct mailing address for Beth Olom Cemetery in Woodhaven, NY?
Last week I mailed a letter requesting burial information to the address
listed for Beth Olom on the IAJGS - Cemetery Project page at JewishGen.org
(P.O. Box 211263, Woodhaven, NY 11421). My letter has just been returned to
me as not deliverable as addressed. (Please advise if it is more effective
to write to the appropriate synagogue office rather than to the cemetery
office.)

Thank you.

Teri Tillman
Natchez, Mississippi


Baby born on Rosh Hashana #general

Barbara Zimmer <bravo.zulu@...>
 

My first grandchild will probably be born tomorrow on Rosh Hashana.
What are the special beliefs and customs concerning a child born on
that holy day? I remember something about newborns who are born
while the Book of Life is open, but my mind is going a bit blank
under the circumstances.

Barbara Zimmer
Virginia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Baby born on Rosh Hashana #general

Barbara Zimmer <bravo.zulu@...>
 

My first grandchild will probably be born tomorrow on Rosh Hashana.
What are the special beliefs and customs concerning a child born on
that holy day? I remember something about newborns who are born
while the Book of Life is open, but my mind is going a bit blank
under the circumstances.

Barbara Zimmer
Virginia


Hungarian Census Records, 1781-1850 #general

Eric M. Bloch
 

Great New Year's news! We're pleased to announce the addition of
13,000 entries to the Hungarian Census Record 1781-1850 database
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary/CensusOther.htm >.

Thanks to the diligent efforts of our team of transcribers, we're
about three-quarters of the way through the census records for the
counties of Lipto, Maramaros, Moson, Nograd, Saros, and Szepes.
Previously completed counties include Arva, Trencsen, and Zemplen.
Eventually, we hope to obtain and transcribe the records for
additional counties.

L'Shana Tova Tikatevu to you all.

Eric M. Bloch, Coordinator
Other Hungarian Census project


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Hungarian Census Records, 1781-1850 #general

Eric M. Bloch
 

Great New Year's news! We're pleased to announce the addition of
13,000 entries to the Hungarian Census Record 1781-1850 database
< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary/CensusOther.htm >.

Thanks to the diligent efforts of our team of transcribers, we're
about three-quarters of the way through the census records for the
counties of Lipto, Maramaros, Moson, Nograd, Saros, and Szepes.
Previously completed counties include Arva, Trencsen, and Zemplen.
Eventually, we hope to obtain and transcribe the records for
additional counties.

L'Shana Tova Tikatevu to you all.

Eric M. Bloch, Coordinator
Other Hungarian Census project


Baranowo-Poland #general

Adam <adamb1@...>
 

My name is Adam Bialczak. I'm a historian and now I'm writing a book
"History of Baranowo ". I'm looking for information about Jewish inhabitants
of Baranowo near Przasnysz, province Warsaw or their descendants. I will be
grateful for help.

Adam Bialczak


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Baranowo-Poland #general

Adam <adamb1@...>
 

My name is Adam Bialczak. I'm a historian and now I'm writing a book
"History of Baranowo ". I'm looking for information about Jewish inhabitants
of Baranowo near Przasnysz, province Warsaw or their descendants. I will be
grateful for help.

Adam Bialczak


NYC death index 1957-1960 #general

Shelly Weiner <shellyjag619@...>
 

Dear all,
I have finished with this film. It will be returned 21 Oct 2006. If
you would like a lookup, please email me privately with the name and
date.

New York City Death *Index*
All boroughs 1957-1960 - FHL US/CAN Film [ 1324927 ]

Shelly Weiner
Henderson NV
---
BYCZOK/BYCHKOFF/BICHKOFF--Walkowisko, Poland to Detroit MI
FELDMAN (Hungary) to New Brunswick NJ
NOCHINOWSKI/NASH--Ostov, Russia to Detroit MI
RHYZI/ROSSEN--Vladimerets OR Stahovka,Ukraine to Detroit,MI
SMOLER/SMOLYAR/SMOLAR--Vladimerets Ukraine to Detroit MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NYC death index 1957-1960 #general

Shelly Weiner <shellyjag619@...>
 

Dear all,
I have finished with this film. It will be returned 21 Oct 2006. If
you would like a lookup, please email me privately with the name and
date.

New York City Death *Index*
All boroughs 1957-1960 - FHL US/CAN Film [ 1324927 ]

Shelly Weiner
Henderson NV
---
BYCZOK/BYCHKOFF/BICHKOFF--Walkowisko, Poland to Detroit MI
FELDMAN (Hungary) to New Brunswick NJ
NOCHINOWSKI/NASH--Ostov, Russia to Detroit MI
RHYZI/ROSSEN--Vladimerets OR Stahovka,Ukraine to Detroit,MI
SMOLER/SMOLYAR/SMOLAR--Vladimerets Ukraine to Detroit MI


Re: Questions about Identity #general

egrdn@...
 

I have read with great interest the different points of view with regard to
our ancestors and their birthdates. In 1946 my cousin Morris, age 61, wrote
his autobiography for his children. Here are some lines >from his work
explaining why he did not know his birthdate. Note that three Old Russian miles
were the equivalent of 13.92 American/British miles according to an online
converter. Morris has used a slightly larger multiplier in his description
below:

"In order to give the exact date when I was born I would have to search of
my certificate of birth somewhere in a village that used to be in Russia. At
present time that village belongs to Poland. The name of the village is
Wielka Hlusha or in shorthand the Jews called it Lusha. The main city which was
located nearby the village Lusha is named Kovel. The distance >from Lusha to
Kovel was Russian nine miles. This is something like sixty American miles.
In order I should at present time get my birth certificate I would have to go
to a different city named Kobrin which is also the same amount of miles. My
recruiting ought to be in that city of Kobrin but being that I left Russia
before 21 years of age so I never have been in that city, the same I have
never seen Kovel. I am therefore not certain with my age and I do not know
exactly when I was born. The only thing that I do know my yearly time that it
happened in a certain day of September. In according with my estimation I
believe that the year of my birthday starts >from 1885. I am not still sure with
it, it is possible that I was born in 1884."

On the subject of the amount of traveling done by ancestors in this region,
Morris wrote about his father's birthplace [please remember again to use the
multiplier of 13.92 to convert Russian miles to American / British miles]:

"A secluded place somewhere in Russia far away >from a town. All you could
see over there was mud and dirty water. You could also see some fields and
farms..... There were living in that vicinity a round number of 10 thousand
people or more. That vicinity had about a hundred villages and about four
small towns.... Here is the name of one of the small towns: Divin, a small town
population of about 25 hundred. The most of the people were Jews. It
belonged to the state of Grodno. My father's family were born and raised over
there. I knew some of my grand uncles lived over there. My father and my
grandfather were born over there and I am sure that my great grandfather was also
born over there.

As far as I am concerned, I never saw that little town in my eyes. I have
to mention to you that this small town, Divin, was four Russian miles away
from the place where I was born. Then came a small town, its name was Kamin
Kaschirsky. It was three miles away >from the place where I was born. That
little town belonged to the state of Zitomir. That small town was doing
business with my birthplace, or better to say my birthplace used to get all kinds
of merchandise >from there. It seems to me that Kamin Kashirsky was the nearest
place in the mileage but also in connection. When some of the merchants of
my birthplace came out to buy merchandise, they could make it in a full day
to and fro. If they went four in the morning, they came back 10 in the
evening but not all of the time."

[>from what Morris has written, I gather that someone must have registered
his birth, but I do not know how it was done.]

Eleanor Gordon
Lafayette, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Questions about Identity #general

egrdn@...
 

I have read with great interest the different points of view with regard to
our ancestors and their birthdates. In 1946 my cousin Morris, age 61, wrote
his autobiography for his children. Here are some lines >from his work
explaining why he did not know his birthdate. Note that three Old Russian miles
were the equivalent of 13.92 American/British miles according to an online
converter. Morris has used a slightly larger multiplier in his description
below:

"In order to give the exact date when I was born I would have to search of
my certificate of birth somewhere in a village that used to be in Russia. At
present time that village belongs to Poland. The name of the village is
Wielka Hlusha or in shorthand the Jews called it Lusha. The main city which was
located nearby the village Lusha is named Kovel. The distance >from Lusha to
Kovel was Russian nine miles. This is something like sixty American miles.
In order I should at present time get my birth certificate I would have to go
to a different city named Kobrin which is also the same amount of miles. My
recruiting ought to be in that city of Kobrin but being that I left Russia
before 21 years of age so I never have been in that city, the same I have
never seen Kovel. I am therefore not certain with my age and I do not know
exactly when I was born. The only thing that I do know my yearly time that it
happened in a certain day of September. In according with my estimation I
believe that the year of my birthday starts >from 1885. I am not still sure with
it, it is possible that I was born in 1884."

On the subject of the amount of traveling done by ancestors in this region,
Morris wrote about his father's birthplace [please remember again to use the
multiplier of 13.92 to convert Russian miles to American / British miles]:

"A secluded place somewhere in Russia far away >from a town. All you could
see over there was mud and dirty water. You could also see some fields and
farms..... There were living in that vicinity a round number of 10 thousand
people or more. That vicinity had about a hundred villages and about four
small towns.... Here is the name of one of the small towns: Divin, a small town
population of about 25 hundred. The most of the people were Jews. It
belonged to the state of Grodno. My father's family were born and raised over
there. I knew some of my grand uncles lived over there. My father and my
grandfather were born over there and I am sure that my great grandfather was also
born over there.

As far as I am concerned, I never saw that little town in my eyes. I have
to mention to you that this small town, Divin, was four Russian miles away
from the place where I was born. Then came a small town, its name was Kamin
Kaschirsky. It was three miles away >from the place where I was born. That
little town belonged to the state of Zitomir. That small town was doing
business with my birthplace, or better to say my birthplace used to get all kinds
of merchandise >from there. It seems to me that Kamin Kashirsky was the nearest
place in the mileage but also in connection. When some of the merchants of
my birthplace came out to buy merchandise, they could make it in a full day
to and fro. If they went four in the morning, they came back 10 in the
evening but not all of the time."

[>from what Morris has written, I gather that someone must have registered
his birth, but I do not know how it was done.]

Eleanor Gordon
Lafayette, CA


Re: Questions about Identity #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

May I add my own contribution to this discussion on Questions of Identity.

My greatgrandfather, Marcus Israel Landau (as he was known in England), is
recorded in his naturalisation certificate of 1871 as having been born in
Homel (Gomel) in Russia on 20 May 1837. There is no mention of any previous
name.

We are told by family lore (see below) that his surname was not his actual
surname - he possibly took someone else's identity to escape Russia to avoid
service in the Tsar's army.

If let us say that he assumed someone else's identity why should the
birthdate that is stated on his naturalisation certificate be the actual
date but instead possibly the date of birth of the person whose identity he
assumed.

I assume that a person in Victorian England would have had to use some form
of confirmation of identity - particularly when presenting themselves for
naturalisation.

We also understood that he with his young wife escaped >from Russia at the
age of about 18 to escape service in the Tsar's army - they were apparently
when he was 16 and she was 18.

Yet the naturalisation certificate records that 4 of the 5 children (listed
by name and age) were born in Russia.

According to the notes about my greatgrandfather in my familytree (not notes
made my me):

"Marcus Fredkin was born 1837 in Gomel in the province of
Mogilev, White Russia. He fled Russia at the time of the
pogroms in 1852/3 at the age of fifteen when he was about to
be conscripted into the army of Czarist Russia. Under the
Cantonists system in force >from 1805 to 1856, Jewish
children were conscripted into the army >from the age of
twelve (and younger) with the implicit intent of converting
them to Christianity. Service was for 25 years reckoned
from the day they attained the age of eighteen, the normal
conscription age. For the adolescent conscripts it was
often a death sentence, not >from enemy fire but from
antisemitism >from within the army.

To get out of the country, Marcus used a common method of
escape. He acquired a forged passport which had belonged to
a deceased German Jew by name of Landau. The frontier
guards were not naive and bribe money as well as passport
were required to get past them. So armed, he took flight.
The accuracy and sequence of events is uncertain. (A cousin of my father)
understood that he travelled to Europe via Kiev, Odessa and Constantinople,
eventually arriving in London
with a wife and small son. He cannot verify this."

Well, did he elope with his wife and get married after escaping Russia (or
was he in hiding?).

There is no independent corroboration of the original surname Fredkin (this
is not referred to in the naturalisation certificate).

My father never heard this >from his own father, although it is clear that
the story has come >from other cousins.

This is, in fact, recorded as fact in page 8 of "Uncle Tungsten" by my
father's first cousin Oliver Sacks.

According to Sacks he made his way to Paris and then Frankfurt where he
married. It says that two years later (in 1855) with the first of their
children they moved to England.

Was he travelling all this time with his young wife-to-be? According to her
death announcement in 1871, she was the daughter of the Rav of Chernigov. It
sounds more like today than 150 years ago - and not the sort of thing that
Orthodox rabbi's daughters would do today - let alone then.

It would though have not been possible for them to keep in touch (he on the
move, she in Russia) and meet up later.

The naturalisation certificate records that only the last of the children
was born in England, and that he only came to England about 8 years before
the naturalisation ie 1863.

I have not been able to trace the births of the older children on the
British birth registers.

I suppose that there is one possibility that they were living in England
under another name prior to 1863.

from what I have mentioned above the records might raise more questions than
they settle - and at the minimum question family stories which in the
absence of any evidence to the contrary have been passed down as family
history or lore.

A question of identity - you bet!

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Questions about Identity #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

May I add my own contribution to this discussion on Questions of Identity.

My greatgrandfather, Marcus Israel Landau (as he was known in England), is
recorded in his naturalisation certificate of 1871 as having been born in
Homel (Gomel) in Russia on 20 May 1837. There is no mention of any previous
name.

We are told by family lore (see below) that his surname was not his actual
surname - he possibly took someone else's identity to escape Russia to avoid
service in the Tsar's army.

If let us say that he assumed someone else's identity why should the
birthdate that is stated on his naturalisation certificate be the actual
date but instead possibly the date of birth of the person whose identity he
assumed.

I assume that a person in Victorian England would have had to use some form
of confirmation of identity - particularly when presenting themselves for
naturalisation.

We also understood that he with his young wife escaped >from Russia at the
age of about 18 to escape service in the Tsar's army - they were apparently
when he was 16 and she was 18.

Yet the naturalisation certificate records that 4 of the 5 children (listed
by name and age) were born in Russia.

According to the notes about my greatgrandfather in my familytree (not notes
made my me):

"Marcus Fredkin was born 1837 in Gomel in the province of
Mogilev, White Russia. He fled Russia at the time of the
pogroms in 1852/3 at the age of fifteen when he was about to
be conscripted into the army of Czarist Russia. Under the
Cantonists system in force >from 1805 to 1856, Jewish
children were conscripted into the army >from the age of
twelve (and younger) with the implicit intent of converting
them to Christianity. Service was for 25 years reckoned
from the day they attained the age of eighteen, the normal
conscription age. For the adolescent conscripts it was
often a death sentence, not >from enemy fire but from
antisemitism >from within the army.

To get out of the country, Marcus used a common method of
escape. He acquired a forged passport which had belonged to
a deceased German Jew by name of Landau. The frontier
guards were not naive and bribe money as well as passport
were required to get past them. So armed, he took flight.
The accuracy and sequence of events is uncertain. (A cousin of my father)
understood that he travelled to Europe via Kiev, Odessa and Constantinople,
eventually arriving in London
with a wife and small son. He cannot verify this."

Well, did he elope with his wife and get married after escaping Russia (or
was he in hiding?).

There is no independent corroboration of the original surname Fredkin (this
is not referred to in the naturalisation certificate).

My father never heard this >from his own father, although it is clear that
the story has come >from other cousins.

This is, in fact, recorded as fact in page 8 of "Uncle Tungsten" by my
father's first cousin Oliver Sacks.

According to Sacks he made his way to Paris and then Frankfurt where he
married. It says that two years later (in 1855) with the first of their
children they moved to England.

Was he travelling all this time with his young wife-to-be? According to her
death announcement in 1871, she was the daughter of the Rav of Chernigov. It
sounds more like today than 150 years ago - and not the sort of thing that
Orthodox rabbi's daughters would do today - let alone then.

It would though have not been possible for them to keep in touch (he on the
move, she in Russia) and meet up later.

The naturalisation certificate records that only the last of the children
was born in England, and that he only came to England about 8 years before
the naturalisation ie 1863.

I have not been able to trace the births of the older children on the
British birth registers.

I suppose that there is one possibility that they were living in England
under another name prior to 1863.

from what I have mentioned above the records might raise more questions than
they settle - and at the minimum question family stories which in the
absence of any evidence to the contrary have been passed down as family
history or lore.

A question of identity - you bet!

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


Info about Sugar Cane Land Lords #latinamerica

Eliane Prates <prates.eliane@...>
 

Hello everybody,

Someone has been asking researching information about Sugar Cane Land Lords
few months ago.

First of all, it´s necessary to say that the Dutchs were EXPILED and NOT
deported by the Portugueses as someone wrote (because Pernambuco was Dutch
Colony between 1630 till 1654).

You can find arquives in Brazil speaking about all those subjects:

Arquivo Público Estadual João Emerenciano (Public Arquive of the State of
Pernambuco):

www.fisepe.pe.gov.br

Fundação Joaquim Nabuco (Brazilian Foundation Joaquim Nabuco):

www.fundaj.gov.br

Universidade Federal de Alagoas (Federal University of Alagoas State):

www.ufal.br

Regards,

Eliane A. Prates

MODERATOR NOTE: All sites are in Portuguese, and www.fisepe.pe.gov.br did not load,
so the value of this information needs to be taken with a grain of salt....unless Eliane
is willing to do lookups and free translations for our group.


Latin America #LatinAmerica Info about Sugar Cane Land Lords #latinamerica

Eliane Prates <prates.eliane@...>
 

Hello everybody,

Someone has been asking researching information about Sugar Cane Land Lords
few months ago.

First of all, it´s necessary to say that the Dutchs were EXPILED and NOT
deported by the Portugueses as someone wrote (because Pernambuco was Dutch
Colony between 1630 till 1654).

You can find arquives in Brazil speaking about all those subjects:

Arquivo Público Estadual João Emerenciano (Public Arquive of the State of
Pernambuco):

www.fisepe.pe.gov.br

Fundação Joaquim Nabuco (Brazilian Foundation Joaquim Nabuco):

www.fundaj.gov.br

Universidade Federal de Alagoas (Federal University of Alagoas State):

www.ufal.br

Regards,

Eliane A. Prates

MODERATOR NOTE: All sites are in Portuguese, and www.fisepe.pe.gov.br did not load,
so the value of this information needs to be taken with a grain of salt....unless Eliane
is willing to do lookups and free translations for our group.