Date   

ZABAWNY (CUKIERMAN) #rabbinic

Isabel Cymerman
 

My gggrandfather, Pinchas CUKIERMAN, an itinerant teacher/Siedlce
(1837-1910), adopted the surname ZABAWNY. I am looking for any info
on this rabbi.

Thank you.
Isabel Cymerman


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic ZABAWNY (CUKIERMAN) #rabbinic

Isabel Cymerman
 

My gggrandfather, Pinchas CUKIERMAN, an itinerant teacher/Siedlce
(1837-1910), adopted the surname ZABAWNY. I am looking for any info
on this rabbi.

Thank you.
Isabel Cymerman


IGS call for papers - The Wandering Jew: Jewish Migration #germany

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

You can also download a prettier version of the call for papers in a .pdf
format in either English or Hebrew by visiting the IGS website at:

http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2007/index.html

The Israel Genealogical Society
Family Roots in The Land of Israel and in The World
Third Annual Seminar on Jewish Genealogy

The Israel Genealogical Society is pleased to invite presentations
from potential speakers in English and/or Hebrew for the Third Annual
One Day Seminar on Jewish Genealogy. This year, the seminar will be
held on Monday, 12 November 2007 at Beit Wolyn in Givatayim.

Our topic this year is vital to the understanding of Jewish genealogy
and history:

The Wandering Jew: Jewish Migration between the 18th and 20th Centuries

This covers any Jewish community anywhere at any time within this 200
year time span.
As always, the emphasis of any presentation should include available
resources and should deal with availability and access to documentation.

GUIDELINES FOR SUBMISSION OF PROPOSALS:
Authors wishing to present a paper at the one day seminar are invited
to submit an abstract by e-mail ATTACHMENT in WORD FORMAT to Dr.
Martha Lev-Zion, or mail it on a diskette in WORD FORMAT to reach the
One Day Seminar Committee by June 1, 2007, together with 3 original
hard copies. Proposals, whether accepted or declined, will not be
returned. Make sure you retain a copy of your proposal. Please note
that lectures are limited to 35 minutes, with an additional 10
minutes for questions and answers.

Email address: Martha Lev-Zion <martha@bgu.ac.il>
Postal address: Yom Iyun, POB 786, 84965 Omer, Israel

Proposals Format:
If you plan to submit more than one proposal, please use a separate
page for each submission.

1. File format must be either Microsoft Word (*.DOC) or Rich Text
Format (*.RTF) only.
2. Abstracts may be written either in Hebrew or in English, Times New Roman
font, 12 points and single-spaced. Please limit your submission to 250 words.
3. Page margins are 2.5 cm (1 inch) >from each side.

At the end of your proposal, please state:
1. the language (Hebrew or English) in which you would prefer to
present your lecture.
2. if any equipment is required, such as a computer, projector or
overhead projector, please include those needs in your proposal. [We
advise lecturers to bring their own laptops].
3. For those proposals that are accepted for presentation, the
lecturers will be expected to send in a full version of their talk to
the organising committee prior to the One Day Seminar. Exact details
will be included in the letter of acceptance to the lecturer.

DEADLINES:
1 June 2007 - Submission of abstracts
1 July 2007 - Notification of acceptance

MODERATOR NOTE: The best place to find announcements of broad interest
like this one is in the JewishGen Discussion Group - JGDG
General information: http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm
Subscribe: http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm#subscribe


German SIG #Germany IGS call for papers - The Wandering Jew: Jewish Migration #germany

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

You can also download a prettier version of the call for papers in a .pdf
format in either English or Hebrew by visiting the IGS website at:

http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/YY2007/index.html

The Israel Genealogical Society
Family Roots in The Land of Israel and in The World
Third Annual Seminar on Jewish Genealogy

The Israel Genealogical Society is pleased to invite presentations
from potential speakers in English and/or Hebrew for the Third Annual
One Day Seminar on Jewish Genealogy. This year, the seminar will be
held on Monday, 12 November 2007 at Beit Wolyn in Givatayim.

Our topic this year is vital to the understanding of Jewish genealogy
and history:

The Wandering Jew: Jewish Migration between the 18th and 20th Centuries

This covers any Jewish community anywhere at any time within this 200
year time span.
As always, the emphasis of any presentation should include available
resources and should deal with availability and access to documentation.

GUIDELINES FOR SUBMISSION OF PROPOSALS:
Authors wishing to present a paper at the one day seminar are invited
to submit an abstract by e-mail ATTACHMENT in WORD FORMAT to Dr.
Martha Lev-Zion, or mail it on a diskette in WORD FORMAT to reach the
One Day Seminar Committee by June 1, 2007, together with 3 original
hard copies. Proposals, whether accepted or declined, will not be
returned. Make sure you retain a copy of your proposal. Please note
that lectures are limited to 35 minutes, with an additional 10
minutes for questions and answers.

Email address: Martha Lev-Zion <martha@bgu.ac.il>
Postal address: Yom Iyun, POB 786, 84965 Omer, Israel

Proposals Format:
If you plan to submit more than one proposal, please use a separate
page for each submission.

1. File format must be either Microsoft Word (*.DOC) or Rich Text
Format (*.RTF) only.
2. Abstracts may be written either in Hebrew or in English, Times New Roman
font, 12 points and single-spaced. Please limit your submission to 250 words.
3. Page margins are 2.5 cm (1 inch) >from each side.

At the end of your proposal, please state:
1. the language (Hebrew or English) in which you would prefer to
present your lecture.
2. if any equipment is required, such as a computer, projector or
overhead projector, please include those needs in your proposal. [We
advise lecturers to bring their own laptops].
3. For those proposals that are accepted for presentation, the
lecturers will be expected to send in a full version of their talk to
the organising committee prior to the One Day Seminar. Exact details
will be included in the letter of acceptance to the lecturer.

DEADLINES:
1 June 2007 - Submission of abstracts
1 July 2007 - Notification of acceptance

MODERATOR NOTE: The best place to find announcements of broad interest
like this one is in the JewishGen Discussion Group - JGDG
General information: http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm
Subscribe: http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm#subscribe


BRUKSZTEIN /BRUCKSTEIN from Poland #general

Elsebeth Paikin
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

I hope that someone can help me find information about - preferably descendants
of - the below mentioned BRUKSZTEINs.

It is not my family, but I am trying to help an 84 years old holocaust survivor,
Jakub, who came to Denmark after the persecutions in the late 1960ies in Poland.
He doesn't speak or write English, and he does not have a computer.

He is - as far as he knows - the last surviving member of his father's family.
But his father had brothers and a sister who emigrated to the US, and he is hoping
to find a relative, a descendant, of one of them.

I am trying myself to find more information through all the on-line databases,JGFF,
etc., but it takes time and Jakub is ill so time is running out. Therefore I hope
for a bit of luck - that someone among you might know of his family.

Here is the information he gave me and what I have found out >from the Internet till
now:

Jakub's father:
Zelig BRUKSZTEIN, born 1878, Kolo, Poland; died 1941, Chelmo. He had the following
siblings presumably they all changed their surname in the US to BROOKS:

1) Hinda BRUKSZTEIN (unknown destiny)
2) Sender BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS. Emigrated before WWI to the US. His destiny is
unknown. Sender and his sister Bluma (see below), arrived 8. Jun 1907 to New York
with the ship Baltic >from Liverpool. He was 24 years old, born in Kolo, Poland,
and unmarried when he arrived in New York. The were going to their brother J.
Brooks, 251-1-2 ?? 13th Street, New York.

3) Jacob BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS, died ca. 1920 (my friend is named for him). He
emigrated before WWI to the US arriving 16. May 1900 in New York with the ship
Grosser Kurfurst >from Bremen He was years old and married. He is going to his uncle
(no name given), the address unfortunately illegible.

4) MICHAL BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS. Emigrated before WWI to the US and sailed 4 Aug
1920 >from Le Havre with S/S Rochambeau and arrived 13. Aug 1920 in New York. He
was 30 years old, and unmarried when he arrived in New York. He is going to his
brother: A. Brookes, 129 Vernon Av., Brooklyn, New York. (My guess is that A.
Brookes could be his brother Sender (Alexander)). In the Bronx directory 1931 there
are two by the name Michael Brooks: Brooks, Michael 1314 2 av and Brooks, Michael
712 9 av In 1946 Michael lived in the Bronx when he last had contact with the
European family.

5) Bluma BRUKSZTEIN Emigrated before WWI to the US together with Sender(see above).
She was 10 years old. They were going to their brother J. Brooks, 251-1-2 ?? 13th
Street, New York.

I sincerely hope that someone can help Jakub.

Thanking you in anticipation, I send you all my best wishes



Elsebeth Paikin, President
Jewish Genealogical Society of Denmark:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgs-denmark/
&
SIG Coordinator and webmaster:
JewishGen's Scandinavia SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/scandinavia/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen BRUKSZTEIN /BRUCKSTEIN from Poland #general

Elsebeth Paikin
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

I hope that someone can help me find information about - preferably descendants
of - the below mentioned BRUKSZTEINs.

It is not my family, but I am trying to help an 84 years old holocaust survivor,
Jakub, who came to Denmark after the persecutions in the late 1960ies in Poland.
He doesn't speak or write English, and he does not have a computer.

He is - as far as he knows - the last surviving member of his father's family.
But his father had brothers and a sister who emigrated to the US, and he is hoping
to find a relative, a descendant, of one of them.

I am trying myself to find more information through all the on-line databases,JGFF,
etc., but it takes time and Jakub is ill so time is running out. Therefore I hope
for a bit of luck - that someone among you might know of his family.

Here is the information he gave me and what I have found out >from the Internet till
now:

Jakub's father:
Zelig BRUKSZTEIN, born 1878, Kolo, Poland; died 1941, Chelmo. He had the following
siblings presumably they all changed their surname in the US to BROOKS:

1) Hinda BRUKSZTEIN (unknown destiny)
2) Sender BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS. Emigrated before WWI to the US. His destiny is
unknown. Sender and his sister Bluma (see below), arrived 8. Jun 1907 to New York
with the ship Baltic >from Liverpool. He was 24 years old, born in Kolo, Poland,
and unmarried when he arrived in New York. The were going to their brother J.
Brooks, 251-1-2 ?? 13th Street, New York.

3) Jacob BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS, died ca. 1920 (my friend is named for him). He
emigrated before WWI to the US arriving 16. May 1900 in New York with the ship
Grosser Kurfurst >from Bremen He was years old and married. He is going to his uncle
(no name given), the address unfortunately illegible.

4) MICHAL BRUKSZTEIN / BROOKS. Emigrated before WWI to the US and sailed 4 Aug
1920 >from Le Havre with S/S Rochambeau and arrived 13. Aug 1920 in New York. He
was 30 years old, and unmarried when he arrived in New York. He is going to his
brother: A. Brookes, 129 Vernon Av., Brooklyn, New York. (My guess is that A.
Brookes could be his brother Sender (Alexander)). In the Bronx directory 1931 there
are two by the name Michael Brooks: Brooks, Michael 1314 2 av and Brooks, Michael
712 9 av In 1946 Michael lived in the Bronx when he last had contact with the
European family.

5) Bluma BRUKSZTEIN Emigrated before WWI to the US together with Sender(see above).
She was 10 years old. They were going to their brother J. Brooks, 251-1-2 ?? 13th
Street, New York.

I sincerely hope that someone can help Jakub.

Thanking you in anticipation, I send you all my best wishes



Elsebeth Paikin, President
Jewish Genealogical Society of Denmark:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgs-denmark/
&
SIG Coordinator and webmaster:
JewishGen's Scandinavia SIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/scandinavia/
mailto:elsebeth@paikin.dk


Re: Seeking information about nobleman ?SKINETSKI? from Rzeszow area #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Beth Sommer writes:

<<I have been told that my MGGM, Frymet FELD GREHER, who lived in the Rzeszow area,
worked as a purchasing agent for a nobleman. I have been trying to find out his
exact name and about his family.>>

Have you checked the 1891 Galician Business Directory at:
www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/galicia1891.htm

The page for Rzeszow lists the Polish magnate landowners who lived in Rzeszow and
surrounding towns during that era. If your ancestor worked as a purchasing agent,
it most likely would have been for one of them.

Another way to find out this information is to have your town's entry >from "Slownik
Geograficzny -- Dictionary of the Former Kingdom of Poland" -- translated.
It provides, in great detail, the history of which nobles owned the towns and which
others (even some Jews!) had estates in that area, and the numbers of people who
lived and worked on these estates.

An excellent guide to translating these entries can be found at:
http://www.pgsa.org/Towns/slownik_eng.htm

A list of town entries already translated into English is at:
http://www.polishroots.com/slownik/slownik_index.htm

It appears that Rzeszow has not been done yet, though a researcher might have
privately commissioned it.

As of Feb 2007, there are two websites where all 15 volumes are available free for
online browsing and downloading of images:

1. The University of Warsaw

http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/SGKPi/indexse2.html#x3-50002

2. The Digital Library of Ma?opolska

http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/publication?id=113&from=plannedpubssearch&dirids
=1&tab=3

(MODERATOR NOTE: The tiny URL for the above site is http://tinyurl.com/2fm8to)

You will need a special browser plug-in called Djvu to read the actual pages.
Usually, the plug-in is already installed in the latest browsers, but if it is not
on your system, you can download it for free here:
http://www.lizardtech.com/download/

An excellent guide to navigating these online resources is at:

http://www.polishroots.com/slownik/How_to_use_Polish_Gazeteer_Online.pdf

If you prefer microfilm, it can be ordered by your local Family History
Center >from the FHL in Salt Lake City. A guide to the film numbers (and
sample pages) is at:

www.halgal.com/slownik.html

As an example of the landowner information found in this dictionary, here is
what the Kolbuszowa entry details:

Kolbuszowa was part of the Ostróg estate, then belonged to the Lubomirski
princes, and currently the major estate is the property of Count Zdzis.
Tyszkiewicz. In the 17th century there was a famous palace here, beautifully
constructed, all of wood with headless nails wrought by the local
ironworkers; but in the course of time it deteriorated and was finally torn
down on the order of Count Jerzy Tyszkiewicz.

Getting more specific information on the work our relatives did for these
landowners is a more difficult proposition. For some excellent suggestions,
go to Gayle Schlissel Riley's website on "The Magnate Landowners Records of
Poland," at:

http://people.stevemorse.org/gayle.riley/poland01_records.html

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Seeking information about nobleman ?SKINETSKI? from Rzeszow area #general

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

Beth Sommer writes:

<<I have been told that my MGGM, Frymet FELD GREHER, who lived in the Rzeszow area,
worked as a purchasing agent for a nobleman. I have been trying to find out his
exact name and about his family.>>

Have you checked the 1891 Galician Business Directory at:
www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/galicia1891.htm

The page for Rzeszow lists the Polish magnate landowners who lived in Rzeszow and
surrounding towns during that era. If your ancestor worked as a purchasing agent,
it most likely would have been for one of them.

Another way to find out this information is to have your town's entry >from "Slownik
Geograficzny -- Dictionary of the Former Kingdom of Poland" -- translated.
It provides, in great detail, the history of which nobles owned the towns and which
others (even some Jews!) had estates in that area, and the numbers of people who
lived and worked on these estates.

An excellent guide to translating these entries can be found at:
http://www.pgsa.org/Towns/slownik_eng.htm

A list of town entries already translated into English is at:
http://www.polishroots.com/slownik/slownik_index.htm

It appears that Rzeszow has not been done yet, though a researcher might have
privately commissioned it.

As of Feb 2007, there are two websites where all 15 volumes are available free for
online browsing and downloading of images:

1. The University of Warsaw

http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/SGKPi/indexse2.html#x3-50002

2. The Digital Library of Ma?opolska

http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/publication?id=113&from=plannedpubssearch&dirids
=1&tab=3

(MODERATOR NOTE: The tiny URL for the above site is http://tinyurl.com/2fm8to)

You will need a special browser plug-in called Djvu to read the actual pages.
Usually, the plug-in is already installed in the latest browsers, but if it is not
on your system, you can download it for free here:
http://www.lizardtech.com/download/

An excellent guide to navigating these online resources is at:

http://www.polishroots.com/slownik/How_to_use_Polish_Gazeteer_Online.pdf

If you prefer microfilm, it can be ordered by your local Family History
Center >from the FHL in Salt Lake City. A guide to the film numbers (and
sample pages) is at:

www.halgal.com/slownik.html

As an example of the landowner information found in this dictionary, here is
what the Kolbuszowa entry details:

Kolbuszowa was part of the Ostróg estate, then belonged to the Lubomirski
princes, and currently the major estate is the property of Count Zdzis.
Tyszkiewicz. In the 17th century there was a famous palace here, beautifully
constructed, all of wood with headless nails wrought by the local
ironworkers; but in the course of time it deteriorated and was finally torn
down on the order of Count Jerzy Tyszkiewicz.

Getting more specific information on the work our relatives did for these
landowners is a more difficult proposition. For some excellent suggestions,
go to Gayle Schlissel Riley's website on "The Magnate Landowners Records of
Poland," at:

http://people.stevemorse.org/gayle.riley/poland01_records.html

Good luck!

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Jewish Genealogy Surnames #general

Wayne Greene <WLGREENE42@...>
 

I have a Jewish heritage on my mother's side of the family and I am researching the
following surnames:

ARON/AARON,
ENSMINGER,
FRIESS,
KLEIN,
KOEL,
MEDER,
OTTERMANN,
RAUCH (BACH)?,
SCHMIDT

These are German and Jewish names in my direct line and they are >from the
areas of Waldhambach (Hambach), Petersbach and Volksberg, Bas-Rhin, France
(Alsace Lorraine). I would like to correspond with people researching names
from this area. Please reply privately. Thank you.
Wayne Greene

Moderator Note: you can maximize your chances of success in a Jewish genealogy
search by registering the surnames of interest to you in the JewishGen Family
Finder (JGFF) since this is one of our most heavily visited sites. It also creates
a permanent and easily accessible record so that anyone searching the surname(s) in
which you are interested can find you quickly! Go to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/ and click on ENTER if this is the first time you
have registered a surname in this database. The program will take you through the
process. If you want to see who else might be searching the same surname, click on
the SEARCH icon.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish Genealogy Surnames #general

Wayne Greene <WLGREENE42@...>
 

I have a Jewish heritage on my mother's side of the family and I am researching the
following surnames:

ARON/AARON,
ENSMINGER,
FRIESS,
KLEIN,
KOEL,
MEDER,
OTTERMANN,
RAUCH (BACH)?,
SCHMIDT

These are German and Jewish names in my direct line and they are >from the
areas of Waldhambach (Hambach), Petersbach and Volksberg, Bas-Rhin, France
(Alsace Lorraine). I would like to correspond with people researching names
from this area. Please reply privately. Thank you.
Wayne Greene

Moderator Note: you can maximize your chances of success in a Jewish genealogy
search by registering the surnames of interest to you in the JewishGen Family
Finder (JGFF) since this is one of our most heavily visited sites. It also creates
a permanent and easily accessible record so that anyone searching the surname(s) in
which you are interested can find you quickly! Go to
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/ and click on ENTER if this is the first time you
have registered a surname in this database. The program will take you through the
process. If you want to see who else might be searching the same surname, click on
the SEARCH icon.


Re: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles #hungary

Spiro Peter <spirope@...>
 

Hi Marian,

Bernat was Borbala's maiden surname, and as you
correctly surmised, the other person was her brother.
On the census, married women were commonly listed by
their maiden names, which is a real boon to
genealogists.

In Hungarian talk, in general, it was not uncommon to
refer to a married women by her maiden name if you
were also using their given names. You would not
usually have referred to her as Borbala Lisauer. If
you referred to her married name, she was "Lissauer
Jozsefne," "Mrs. Joseph Lissauer."
-

Subject: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles
From: Marian Brown <brownm@peoplepc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:00:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear All,

I need some help or at least some educated guesses.

The following is a the exact list of family members
from the 1848 census
of Bodolo, Hungary -- now Budulov, Slovakia:

Lisauer, Simon
Neje: Bernat Borbala
Gyermekei:
Lisauer, Joszef
Jacob
Abraham
Terezia
Nani/Hani
Veje: Tirk Bernat

I understand that Bernat Borbala is the wife of
Simon Lisauer, but how
do I interpret her name? Borbala, daughter of
Bernat?

I understand that the next five names are their
children.

As to Tirk Bernat, I understand that "Veje" means
brother-in-law. Would
he be the brother-in-law of Simon Lissauer and
perhaps a brother of
Bernat Borbala?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles #hungary

Spiro Peter <spirope@...>
 

Hi Marian,

Bernat was Borbala's maiden surname, and as you
correctly surmised, the other person was her brother.
On the census, married women were commonly listed by
their maiden names, which is a real boon to
genealogists.

In Hungarian talk, in general, it was not uncommon to
refer to a married women by her maiden name if you
were also using their given names. You would not
usually have referred to her as Borbala Lisauer. If
you referred to her married name, she was "Lissauer
Jozsefne," "Mrs. Joseph Lissauer."
-

Subject: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles
From: Marian Brown <brownm@peoplepc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:00:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1

Dear All,

I need some help or at least some educated guesses.

The following is a the exact list of family members
from the 1848 census
of Bodolo, Hungary -- now Budulov, Slovakia:

Lisauer, Simon
Neje: Bernat Borbala
Gyermekei:
Lisauer, Joszef
Jacob
Abraham
Terezia
Nani/Hani
Veje: Tirk Bernat

I understand that Bernat Borbala is the wife of
Simon Lisauer, but how
do I interpret her name? Borbala, daughter of
Bernat?

I understand that the next five names are their
children.

As to Tirk Bernat, I understand that "Veje" means
brother-in-law. Would
he be the brother-in-law of Simon Lissauer and
perhaps a brother of
Bernat Borbala?


GYULA equals.....? #hungary

jcl me <jamgai@...>
 

hello, all

can/will someone please advise me as to what the first name GYULA
would translate to in English?

thanks, in advance

Jeffrey Leeds
sherman oaks, ca
USA


Re: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

in hungarian, the family name is always given first, just as if it were an adjective. LISAUER would be the family name and Simon the given name. likewise, BERNAT (a fairly common male given name at the time) should be his wife's maiden name, and Borbala (the hungarian version of Barbara) is a common female given name. no mystery there at all.

likewise, the children's names are not unusual (except that the usual hungarian spelling is Jo'zsef, rather than the hebrew Joszef).

the terms "neje", "gyermekei", and "veje" are all possessives, meaning "his wife", "his children", and "his son in law".

and, of course, his son in law's family name is given as TIRK, given name Bernat, which is only unusual because it happened to be the same as his mother in law's maiden name.

i'm sure that jews used patronymics before surnames were instituted, but i would expect them to use their hebrew names in that case, rather than a very secular name like Bernat. (note that some of their given names are clearly non-biblical, such as Borbala, Terezia, and Bernat, which is typical for the period after the emancipation.)


....... tom klein, toronto

Marian Brown <brownm@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Dear All,

I need some help or at least some educated guesses.

The following is a the exact list of family members >from the 1848 census
of Bodolo, Hungary -- now Budulov, Slovakia:

Lisauer, Simon
Neje: Bernat Borbala
Gyermekei:
Lisauer, Joszef
Jacob
Abraham
Terezia
Nani/Hani
Veje: Tirk Bernat

I understand that Bernat Borbala is the wife of Simon Lisauer, but how
do I interpret her name? Borbala, daughter of Bernat?

I understand that the next five names are their children.

As to Tirk Bernat, I understand that "Veje" means brother-in-law. Would
he be the brother-in-law of Simon Lissauer and perhaps a brother of
Bernat Borbala?

Or would he be a brother-in-law of the children and perhaps married to
Nani/Hani?

Also, how do I interpret his hame? Tirk son of Bernat or would Tirk be
the surname and Bernat the given name?

Thanks for helping!

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH


Hungary SIG #Hungary GYULA equals.....? #hungary

jcl me <jamgai@...>
 

hello, all

can/will someone please advise me as to what the first name GYULA
would translate to in English?

thanks, in advance

Jeffrey Leeds
sherman oaks, ca
USA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: 1848 Census of the Jews -- puzzles #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

in hungarian, the family name is always given first, just as if it were an adjective. LISAUER would be the family name and Simon the given name. likewise, BERNAT (a fairly common male given name at the time) should be his wife's maiden name, and Borbala (the hungarian version of Barbara) is a common female given name. no mystery there at all.

likewise, the children's names are not unusual (except that the usual hungarian spelling is Jo'zsef, rather than the hebrew Joszef).

the terms "neje", "gyermekei", and "veje" are all possessives, meaning "his wife", "his children", and "his son in law".

and, of course, his son in law's family name is given as TIRK, given name Bernat, which is only unusual because it happened to be the same as his mother in law's maiden name.

i'm sure that jews used patronymics before surnames were instituted, but i would expect them to use their hebrew names in that case, rather than a very secular name like Bernat. (note that some of their given names are clearly non-biblical, such as Borbala, Terezia, and Bernat, which is typical for the period after the emancipation.)


....... tom klein, toronto

Marian Brown <brownm@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Dear All,

I need some help or at least some educated guesses.

The following is a the exact list of family members >from the 1848 census
of Bodolo, Hungary -- now Budulov, Slovakia:

Lisauer, Simon
Neje: Bernat Borbala
Gyermekei:
Lisauer, Joszef
Jacob
Abraham
Terezia
Nani/Hani
Veje: Tirk Bernat

I understand that Bernat Borbala is the wife of Simon Lisauer, but how
do I interpret her name? Borbala, daughter of Bernat?

I understand that the next five names are their children.

As to Tirk Bernat, I understand that "Veje" means brother-in-law. Would
he be the brother-in-law of Simon Lissauer and perhaps a brother of
Bernat Borbala?

Or would he be a brother-in-law of the children and perhaps married to
Nani/Hani?

Also, how do I interpret his hame? Tirk son of Bernat or would Tirk be
the surname and Bernat the given name?

Thanks for helping!

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH


1848 Census question #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hello,

The question of Hungarian names usually comes up when we tend to forget that
in Hungarian usage the family name is always given first.

Bernat means Bernard and is not an uncommon family name. In fact, a great
many Hungarians have family names which could be given names, which adds to
the confusion. How somebody of Jewish ancestry ended up with such a name is
also open to speculation which one of our more learned colleagues will
answer, I am sure.

Peter Bakos
Budapest
PODVINECZ, ROSENBERG/RACZ/RONAI, MOSCOVICS etc.


The Lisauers #hungary

Bela Mihalik <mihalikbela@...>
 

Dear Marian,

The Bernat is the surname of Lisauer Simon's wife, Borbala. Tirk Bernat=20
is their son-in-law, surname is Tirk, givenname is Bernat. But actually=20
there isn't any proof, how is he their son-in-law, because Lisauer Simon=20
had two daughter: Terezia and Hani. So you need more research that=20
which daughter's husband was Bernat.=20

Best regards,
Bela Vilmos Mihalik,
Budapest, Hungary


Hungary SIG #Hungary 1848 Census question #hungary

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hello,

The question of Hungarian names usually comes up when we tend to forget that
in Hungarian usage the family name is always given first.

Bernat means Bernard and is not an uncommon family name. In fact, a great
many Hungarians have family names which could be given names, which adds to
the confusion. How somebody of Jewish ancestry ended up with such a name is
also open to speculation which one of our more learned colleagues will
answer, I am sure.

Peter Bakos
Budapest
PODVINECZ, ROSENBERG/RACZ/RONAI, MOSCOVICS etc.


Hungary SIG #Hungary The Lisauers #hungary

Bela Mihalik <mihalikbela@...>
 

Dear Marian,

The Bernat is the surname of Lisauer Simon's wife, Borbala. Tirk Bernat=20
is their son-in-law, surname is Tirk, givenname is Bernat. But actually=20
there isn't any proof, how is he their son-in-law, because Lisauer Simon=20
had two daughter: Terezia and Hani. So you need more research that=20
which daughter's husband was Bernat.=20

Best regards,
Bela Vilmos Mihalik,
Budapest, Hungary