Date   

mothersurn vs maidensurn in polish records #general

Dubin, David M. MD
 

Hi all,

What is the difference in the Polish records between the "mothersurn" and
"maidensurn" columns? Specifically, >from Zamosc, Poland:
An 1862 marriage record of Ichil REYNERMAN has parents Lejba & Fajga with
mothersurn SZLECHTMAN. Lajba RAYNERMAN & Fayga's (daughter of Szmerel & Dobra)
marriage record, however, >from 1826 has Fajga's surname as BARTH with no notation
in either the maidensurn or mothersurn columns. Although she is listed as widow of
Abraham and the argument cam be made that this is a different Fayga & that BARTH is
only her married name, the age, names of parents & the combination of surnames
argues otherwise.

Fajga RAJNERMAN's (listed as daughter of Szmerel & Dobra & as Leyba's wife, so it's
the same person) 1878 death record has the maidensurn as BOT (all the other "BOTs"
in the Zamosc records have the name in the mothersurn column, so the difference
seems deliberate). an 1851 death record of Rayzla SZLECHTMAN (age 72), daughter of
Szmerel & Dobra, mentions the maidensurn as BOTH (not "both" as in the two of them,
last name is B-O-T-H). so, who was the BARTH/BOTH/BOT & who was the SZLECHTMAN? my
working assumption is that when Fayga was young, she had been registered as
"illegitimate" in her mother's name (BARTH), but that in her old age she was listed
under her father's name (SZLECHTMAN), ignoring her label of illegitimate.

am i right?

thanks.
david dubin
teaneck, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen mothersurn vs maidensurn in polish records #general

Dubin, David M. MD
 

Hi all,

What is the difference in the Polish records between the "mothersurn" and
"maidensurn" columns? Specifically, >from Zamosc, Poland:
An 1862 marriage record of Ichil REYNERMAN has parents Lejba & Fajga with
mothersurn SZLECHTMAN. Lajba RAYNERMAN & Fayga's (daughter of Szmerel & Dobra)
marriage record, however, >from 1826 has Fajga's surname as BARTH with no notation
in either the maidensurn or mothersurn columns. Although she is listed as widow of
Abraham and the argument cam be made that this is a different Fayga & that BARTH is
only her married name, the age, names of parents & the combination of surnames
argues otherwise.

Fajga RAJNERMAN's (listed as daughter of Szmerel & Dobra & as Leyba's wife, so it's
the same person) 1878 death record has the maidensurn as BOT (all the other "BOTs"
in the Zamosc records have the name in the mothersurn column, so the difference
seems deliberate). an 1851 death record of Rayzla SZLECHTMAN (age 72), daughter of
Szmerel & Dobra, mentions the maidensurn as BOTH (not "both" as in the two of them,
last name is B-O-T-H). so, who was the BARTH/BOTH/BOT & who was the SZLECHTMAN? my
working assumption is that when Fayga was young, she had been registered as
"illegitimate" in her mother's name (BARTH), but that in her old age she was listed
under her father's name (SZLECHTMAN), ignoring her label of illegitimate.

am i right?

thanks.
david dubin
teaneck, NJ


Translation of a word "fizzamadenda" #germany

AHB <w.fritzsche@...>
 

Dear Janet,
the word "Fisimatenten" means, do not fool around, don´t make nonsense.
[Don't do foolish things.]
The origin was in French "Visitez ma tente". "Visit my tent" was said
to young German girls by Napoleon's soldiers who occupied parts of
Germany in the 18th century.

Their mothers said "do not make visitez ma tente, and over the
years the word "Fissematenten" evolved. Best regards,

Dr. W. Fritzsche, Kultur-Büro AHB Dr. U. Weißbrod <w.fritzsche@ewr-online.de>


German SIG #Germany Translation of a word "fizzamadenda" #germany

AHB <w.fritzsche@...>
 

Dear Janet,
the word "Fisimatenten" means, do not fool around, don´t make nonsense.
[Don't do foolish things.]
The origin was in French "Visitez ma tente". "Visit my tent" was said
to young German girls by Napoleon's soldiers who occupied parts of
Germany in the 18th century.

Their mothers said "do not make visitez ma tente, and over the
years the word "Fissematenten" evolved. Best regards,

Dr. W. Fritzsche, Kultur-Büro AHB Dr. U. Weißbrod <w.fritzsche@ewr-online.de>


Re: Digital collection of Familiant books of Bohemia #austria-czech

Herbert Schwarz <schwarzs@...>
 

Hi Julius, my paternal family originates >from the Talbot region. My Schwarz
family comes >from the Gauftnitz/Chausnik region, My Grandfather Moritz
SCHWARZ was born Feb. 1852 in Chausnik. My grandmother was a Franciska
POPPER >from Radnin, born May 14,1856 in Radnin.
I attempted to read the "books" but the copies are very faint. Could you
please let me know what information on the Schwarz and Popper family is
available in the transcripts. Thank you in advance, Herb Schwarz,
Ontario,Canada


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Digital collection of Familiant books of Bohemia #austria-czech

Herbert Schwarz <schwarzs@...>
 

Hi Julius, my paternal family originates >from the Talbot region. My Schwarz
family comes >from the Gauftnitz/Chausnik region, My Grandfather Moritz
SCHWARZ was born Feb. 1852 in Chausnik. My grandmother was a Franciska
POPPER >from Radnin, born May 14,1856 in Radnin.
I attempted to read the "books" but the copies are very faint. Could you
please let me know what information on the Schwarz and Popper family is
available in the transcripts. Thank you in advance, Herb Schwarz,
Ontario,Canada


Look up at Strassbourg Archives #general

Debby Gincig Painter
 

I was wondering if any one was going to the Strassbourg archives in the near
future? There is a very important question that needs answering. It is not very
important for me to have a copy of the birth certificate - though if not too
expensive it might be nice to have - but mostly I need to verify the name of their
mother. Mother is either Anna JOSKOWITZ (born July 07, 1879 Peitrkov?) or
Nisle/Nishler LEVI (born August 22, 1881 Strassbourg). Father: Mosiek Srul "Max"
KLINGER.

Lea Elisabeth KLINGER born June 7, 1905 (also have dates of June 9, 1907 and July
7, 1907) in Herbsheim? Isadore KLINGER born March 15, 1908 in Strassbourg

Would also be nice if the names of Nisle/Nishler Levi could be found.

Thank you in advance,
Debby Painter
Michigan
Searching: GINZIG, GINCIG, LUSTIG, KLINGER, SCHTOKHAMER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Look up at Strassbourg Archives #general

Debby Gincig Painter
 

I was wondering if any one was going to the Strassbourg archives in the near
future? There is a very important question that needs answering. It is not very
important for me to have a copy of the birth certificate - though if not too
expensive it might be nice to have - but mostly I need to verify the name of their
mother. Mother is either Anna JOSKOWITZ (born July 07, 1879 Peitrkov?) or
Nisle/Nishler LEVI (born August 22, 1881 Strassbourg). Father: Mosiek Srul "Max"
KLINGER.

Lea Elisabeth KLINGER born June 7, 1905 (also have dates of June 9, 1907 and July
7, 1907) in Herbsheim? Isadore KLINGER born March 15, 1908 in Strassbourg

Would also be nice if the names of Nisle/Nishler Levi could be found.

Thank you in advance,
Debby Painter
Michigan
Searching: GINZIG, GINCIG, LUSTIG, KLINGER, SCHTOKHAMER


Need help to find NYC marriage certificate #general

Alison Cronson <acronson@...>
 

I have done an exhaustive search online of the NYC groom and brides databases to
find my great-grandfather's marriage certificate and have found nothing. Short of
sending in a large check to the Records Dept in NYC for them to look over a 5-10
year period, there must be some other way to find it. I know that the 1900 census
says he and his wife were married 3 years and their first child was born in 1898 in
NYC (Manhattan specifically). The man is Louis LOCKWOOD and his wife Sarah
ROSENBERG (maiden name). I could use some advice as where to look next. I have
limited/no ability to go to NYC and do the research myself. Other family members I
could ask are either dead or refusing to make available family records. I have
tried all sorts of permutations of both LOCKWOOD and ROSENBERG with no luck. Any
and all advice would be greatly appreciated. I would like to write to get a copy of
the certificate and without the number, I can't find out either Louis or Sarah's
parents names.
sincerely,
Alison Cronson
Researching : LEKACH, BESSER (Dvinsk, Glasmanka Latvia), ROSENBERG (Russia), EDISON
(Glasmanka, Latvia), WARTELSKY/WARTELL (POLAND- SWEDEN - NYC) , EDINBERG (Ukraine-
Worcester MA), HOFFMANN (Slovakia - Germany) STANDEL (Ukraine - Boston, MA)
ROSENBAUM (ZELL GERMANY - EVERYWHERE), KRONSON (RUSSIA/POLAND - Providence RI)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Need help to find NYC marriage certificate #general

Alison Cronson <acronson@...>
 

I have done an exhaustive search online of the NYC groom and brides databases to
find my great-grandfather's marriage certificate and have found nothing. Short of
sending in a large check to the Records Dept in NYC for them to look over a 5-10
year period, there must be some other way to find it. I know that the 1900 census
says he and his wife were married 3 years and their first child was born in 1898 in
NYC (Manhattan specifically). The man is Louis LOCKWOOD and his wife Sarah
ROSENBERG (maiden name). I could use some advice as where to look next. I have
limited/no ability to go to NYC and do the research myself. Other family members I
could ask are either dead or refusing to make available family records. I have
tried all sorts of permutations of both LOCKWOOD and ROSENBERG with no luck. Any
and all advice would be greatly appreciated. I would like to write to get a copy of
the certificate and without the number, I can't find out either Louis or Sarah's
parents names.
sincerely,
Alison Cronson
Researching : LEKACH, BESSER (Dvinsk, Glasmanka Latvia), ROSENBERG (Russia), EDISON
(Glasmanka, Latvia), WARTELSKY/WARTELL (POLAND- SWEDEN - NYC) , EDINBERG (Ukraine-
Worcester MA), HOFFMANN (Slovakia - Germany) STANDEL (Ukraine - Boston, MA)
ROSENBAUM (ZELL GERMANY - EVERYWHERE), KRONSON (RUSSIA/POLAND - Providence RI)


Louis PINKUS, Erzieher Heinz Julius PINKUS - Gliwice, Poland #general

Melodysdeals
 

I have just been told that Louis PINKUS, my grandfather, b.19 June 1877 was born in
Gleiwitz, which now is Gliwice, Poland (2727 km SW of Warszawa. I was also told
that my father, Erzieher Heinz Julius Pinkus b. 29 April 1915 was also born there.
I am having difficulty finding any records >from this city. If I could find Louis
and confirm this city, I would finally get a break an over 20 year search by my
cousin. Plus we could begin to search his line. My father died over 30 years ago,
when I was just 16, so not many details were ever shared. In addition, my
understanding is that Erzieher means teacher or educator, i.e. it is a title. Any
help, would be much appreciated.

I must also thank all those that have helped me along this journey that I just
began in June 2007. Because of JewishGeners I have found my cousin, my half
sister, what happened to my half-brother, pictures of my father in his 20's, one of
my father's sisters family, my nieces and nephews >from my half sister and half
brother, and the information on the complete line of my grandmother. This journey
has been life changing! I must thank you all again.

Melody Mayes nee Pinkus
JewishGen #292191

MODERATOR NOTE: A great way to say "thank you" for all that JewishGen does is to
become a contributor through JewishGen-erosity
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/ where you can make a general
contribution to JewishGen, contribute to your favorite project, or honor a worthy
individual. We rely exclusively on your generosity to ensure our continued growth.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Louis PINKUS, Erzieher Heinz Julius PINKUS - Gliwice, Poland #general

Melodysdeals
 

I have just been told that Louis PINKUS, my grandfather, b.19 June 1877 was born in
Gleiwitz, which now is Gliwice, Poland (2727 km SW of Warszawa. I was also told
that my father, Erzieher Heinz Julius Pinkus b. 29 April 1915 was also born there.
I am having difficulty finding any records >from this city. If I could find Louis
and confirm this city, I would finally get a break an over 20 year search by my
cousin. Plus we could begin to search his line. My father died over 30 years ago,
when I was just 16, so not many details were ever shared. In addition, my
understanding is that Erzieher means teacher or educator, i.e. it is a title. Any
help, would be much appreciated.

I must also thank all those that have helped me along this journey that I just
began in June 2007. Because of JewishGeners I have found my cousin, my half
sister, what happened to my half-brother, pictures of my father in his 20's, one of
my father's sisters family, my nieces and nephews >from my half sister and half
brother, and the information on the complete line of my grandmother. This journey
has been life changing! I must thank you all again.

Melody Mayes nee Pinkus
JewishGen #292191

MODERATOR NOTE: A great way to say "thank you" for all that JewishGen does is to
become a contributor through JewishGen-erosity
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/ where you can make a general
contribution to JewishGen, contribute to your favorite project, or honor a worthy
individual. We rely exclusively on your generosity to ensure our continued growth.


Obit Look-up in Kings County, NY #general

felicia zieff
 

Hello friends,

Once again, I turn to you for help. Can someone please find and send me the text
of the obituary for SAM NAGELBERG >from Brooklyn, NY? According to the SSDI, he was
born in 1923 and died in 2006.
Please send your replies directly to me.
Thank you very much.

Felicia P. Zieff
Chicago, IL

Felicia P. Zieff
Association of Descendants of the Shoah - Illinois, Inc.
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/zloczew/zloczew.html


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Obit Look-up in Kings County, NY #general

felicia zieff
 

Hello friends,

Once again, I turn to you for help. Can someone please find and send me the text
of the obituary for SAM NAGELBERG >from Brooklyn, NY? According to the SSDI, he was
born in 1923 and died in 2006.
Please send your replies directly to me.
Thank you very much.

Felicia P. Zieff
Chicago, IL

Felicia P. Zieff
Association of Descendants of the Shoah - Illinois, Inc.
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/zloczew/zloczew.html


Searching YAFFA, GINNS, KAPLAN/COHEN #general

caroline yaffa <ragdollragdollragdoll@...>
 

I am trying to get information on my great grandfather Morris YAFFA. All I know he
has a brother name George yaffa. I have no information if this is the original
name or has been change when he got to america. My other great grandfather name
is Wolf(aka Wolff) GINNS. His wife name was Ida KAPLAN or COHEN. My late
grandmother could not remember which one of these 2 names is her mother maiden
name.All I know about Wolf is that he was married twice to some other woman and
Ida Kaplan or Cohen. Wolf had a total of 15 children by the 2 woman. My late
grandmother was the youngest of 15 brothers and sisters.I also do not know if this
is the originial name or it was change in america. If anybody has any information
please let me know.

Caroline Yaffa
ragdollragdollragdoll@yahoo.com


Dutch Sympathy for Jews ?? #general

MBernet@...
 

I recently responded to a posting here about an "underground railroad" in Holland
that in the early 1920s supposedly helped Jews escaping Germany to reach other
countries. While in essence debunking that, I suggested that the Dutch were in
general sympathetic and helpful to their Jews. I have since been told that, though
some 15 thousand Jews were hidden by the Dutch, 120,000 of Holland's 150,000 were
murdered, reportedly the largest proportion of Jews anywhere in Europe.
Anne Frank's family, hidden by a Dutch family was betrayed by another.

I mention this so that genealogists seeking family history in Holland during the
Holocaust should not get an incorrect picture of the situation. That does not alter
my correction that Jews were not being persecuted by the German authorities in the
early 1920s, and that even after the rise to power of the Nazis in 1934 (and until
1939, to some extent even 1941), Jews with visas were officially able to travel
from Germany to other countries
Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching YAFFA, GINNS, KAPLAN/COHEN #general

caroline yaffa <ragdollragdollragdoll@...>
 

I am trying to get information on my great grandfather Morris YAFFA. All I know he
has a brother name George yaffa. I have no information if this is the original
name or has been change when he got to america. My other great grandfather name
is Wolf(aka Wolff) GINNS. His wife name was Ida KAPLAN or COHEN. My late
grandmother could not remember which one of these 2 names is her mother maiden
name.All I know about Wolf is that he was married twice to some other woman and
Ida Kaplan or Cohen. Wolf had a total of 15 children by the 2 woman. My late
grandmother was the youngest of 15 brothers and sisters.I also do not know if this
is the originial name or it was change in america. If anybody has any information
please let me know.

Caroline Yaffa
ragdollragdollragdoll@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Dutch Sympathy for Jews ?? #general

MBernet@...
 

I recently responded to a posting here about an "underground railroad" in Holland
that in the early 1920s supposedly helped Jews escaping Germany to reach other
countries. While in essence debunking that, I suggested that the Dutch were in
general sympathetic and helpful to their Jews. I have since been told that, though
some 15 thousand Jews were hidden by the Dutch, 120,000 of Holland's 150,000 were
murdered, reportedly the largest proportion of Jews anywhere in Europe.
Anne Frank's family, hidden by a Dutch family was betrayed by another.

I mention this so that genealogists seeking family history in Holland during the
Holocaust should not get an incorrect picture of the situation. That does not alter
my correction that Jews were not being persecuted by the German authorities in the
early 1920s, and that even after the rise to power of the Nazis in 1934 (and until
1939, to some extent even 1941), Jews with visas were officially able to travel
from Germany to other countries
Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@aol.com


GOLDSCHMIEDTand BRANDEIS - textile company in Liberec/Reichenberg #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

This question was originally posed in response to Julius Muller's announcement
of his Familiant book project: Digital collection of Familiant books of Bohemia


Duccio Leoni wrote: "I would be very grateful if you could direct me to the
right books to look in to see whether I can find out what happened to a branch
of my family. My great uncle Sigmund GOLDSCHMIEDT had a linen/cotton factory in
Liberec listed in Grottau in 1929 that was left in his will to his wife Julie
BRANDEIS and after that to his son Otto. "

Duccio, I think you have misunderstood these Familiant books. They are not
address books of the 1900s but a register of male members of families who were
registered when the Familianten Act was enacted in the 1700s. They are followed
through generation by generation. The earliest lists, sheets, records have
probably not survived in many instances. These are the later ones.

The fact that your family had a textile factory in Reichenberg in 1929 has
probably no relationship to their origins. They may have come >from anywhere.
There were only about 100 Jews in Liberec/Reichenberg in 1810. There was then
an influx >from Jungbunzlau, Neibidschow, Polna, Prague, Moravia and even
Vienna.

There is a long chapter in Hugo Gold's book on the Jews and Jewish Communities
of Bohemia on Reichenberg, but so far I have not come across GOLDSCHMIEDT but
the name BRANDEIS appears connected with the mid-nineteenth century wool trade.
By then of course the Familiant Act had been abolished.

I suggest you go to http://www.toledot.org/kraje.html and see where you can
find GOLDSCHMIEDT, but remember they may not have come >from Bohemia.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech GOLDSCHMIEDTand BRANDEIS - textile company in Liberec/Reichenberg #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

This question was originally posed in response to Julius Muller's announcement
of his Familiant book project: Digital collection of Familiant books of Bohemia


Duccio Leoni wrote: "I would be very grateful if you could direct me to the
right books to look in to see whether I can find out what happened to a branch
of my family. My great uncle Sigmund GOLDSCHMIEDT had a linen/cotton factory in
Liberec listed in Grottau in 1929 that was left in his will to his wife Julie
BRANDEIS and after that to his son Otto. "

Duccio, I think you have misunderstood these Familiant books. They are not
address books of the 1900s but a register of male members of families who were
registered when the Familianten Act was enacted in the 1700s. They are followed
through generation by generation. The earliest lists, sheets, records have
probably not survived in many instances. These are the later ones.

The fact that your family had a textile factory in Reichenberg in 1929 has
probably no relationship to their origins. They may have come >from anywhere.
There were only about 100 Jews in Liberec/Reichenberg in 1810. There was then
an influx >from Jungbunzlau, Neibidschow, Polna, Prague, Moravia and even
Vienna.

There is a long chapter in Hugo Gold's book on the Jews and Jewish Communities
of Bohemia on Reichenberg, but so far I have not come across GOLDSCHMIEDT but
the name BRANDEIS appears connected with the mid-nineteenth century wool trade.
By then of course the Familiant Act had been abolished.

I suggest you go to http://www.toledot.org/kraje.html and see where you can
find GOLDSCHMIEDT, but remember they may not have come >from Bohemia.

Celia Male [U.K.]