Date   

R. Moses Rafael GINZBURG of Kublichi Belarus and Cairo #rabbinic

Robert Grayson
 

Looking for any information on my paternal grandfather Rabbi Moses
Rafael GINZBURG b Kublichi Belarus c 1860 became the Rabbi to the
Ashkenazi Community of Cairo Egypt for a short time c 1890 m to
Jennie SLAFF.

Hopefully
Robert Gtayson, MD


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic R. Moses Rafael GINZBURG of Kublichi Belarus and Cairo #rabbinic

Robert Grayson
 

Looking for any information on my paternal grandfather Rabbi Moses
Rafael GINZBURG b Kublichi Belarus c 1860 became the Rabbi to the
Ashkenazi Community of Cairo Egypt for a short time c 1890 m to
Jennie SLAFF.

Hopefully
Robert Gtayson, MD


Request: Mt. Hebron Headstone Photos #general

JOAN ZUCKERMAN <jzuckerman@...>
 

If anyone is planning to visit Mt. Hebron Cemetery in Flushing, NY,
I would be very grateful if you could take digital photos of
gravestones of my Fischer and Roth relatives.

Please respond privately to me and I will email the plot locations.
I am very grateful for any help that can be provided.

Joan Zuckerman
Long Beach, CA
jzuckerman@...

Researching:
ZUCKERMAN (Dyalolovo?, Belarus; New York),
BRISKIN (Slonim, Belarus; New York), ROTH (?, Hungary, New York),
FISCHER (?, Hungary; New York)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Request: Mt. Hebron Headstone Photos #general

JOAN ZUCKERMAN <jzuckerman@...>
 

If anyone is planning to visit Mt. Hebron Cemetery in Flushing, NY,
I would be very grateful if you could take digital photos of
gravestones of my Fischer and Roth relatives.

Please respond privately to me and I will email the plot locations.
I am very grateful for any help that can be provided.

Joan Zuckerman
Long Beach, CA
jzuckerman@...

Researching:
ZUCKERMAN (Dyalolovo?, Belarus; New York),
BRISKIN (Slonim, Belarus; New York), ROTH (?, Hungary, New York),
FISCHER (?, Hungary; New York)


Question re Prepaid Steamship Tickets and Manifests #general

dogwalker47-research@...
 

I have an example of an 1889 ship manifest that seems to match a
family I am researching, including where they came >from ("Wilna")
and where they were going (Rochester, NY), the surname (which is
not duplicated by any other families in Rochester in the city
directories or surrounding census records for this time period),
number of children, order of birth of the children, and their names
(more or less).

The ages, however, for a couple of the children are 3-4 years off
what later records show. It seems a bit odd to me that someone could
arrive at age 7, enter school (theoretically in first grade) and then
later think they are 4 years older than they were.

That made me wonder if the error was on the manifest, and simply
carried over >from an error on the prepaid steamship ticket That is,
the examples I have seen of prepaid tickets show names and ages of
the passengers. If the relative who purchased the ticket in the US
and gave the wrong ages for the children, might that have been copied
onto the passenger manifest without verification?

Thank you,

Laurel Singer
San Ramon, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Question re Prepaid Steamship Tickets and Manifests #general

dogwalker47-research@...
 

I have an example of an 1889 ship manifest that seems to match a
family I am researching, including where they came >from ("Wilna")
and where they were going (Rochester, NY), the surname (which is
not duplicated by any other families in Rochester in the city
directories or surrounding census records for this time period),
number of children, order of birth of the children, and their names
(more or less).

The ages, however, for a couple of the children are 3-4 years off
what later records show. It seems a bit odd to me that someone could
arrive at age 7, enter school (theoretically in first grade) and then
later think they are 4 years older than they were.

That made me wonder if the error was on the manifest, and simply
carried over >from an error on the prepaid steamship ticket That is,
the examples I have seen of prepaid tickets show names and ages of
the passengers. If the relative who purchased the ticket in the US
and gave the wrong ages for the children, might that have been copied
onto the passenger manifest without verification?

Thank you,

Laurel Singer
San Ramon, CA


CARO Puzzle #general

Chuck Culman & Alice Fisher
 

I've traced back one branch of my family to Katie CARO, daughter of Jacob
and Mathilde (nee LEWI). The 1870 US Census has the family in New York
City:

Jacob, age 39, born in Russia
Mathilde, age 32, born in Prussia
Kate, age 13, born in England
Harris, age 10, born in New York
Sarah, age 7, born in New York
Leanor(?), age 5, born in New York
Mary, age 3, born in New York
Realca (? hard to read), age 1, born in New York

On her marriage certificate, Katie lists her birthplace as London.

Now for my puzzle. Last week, I ran across an entry >from the 1861 English
Census for Newcastle on the Tyne:

Jacob CARO, age 29, born in Prussia (a naturalized British subject)
Mathilde, age 23, born in Prussia
Edmund, age 2, born in Newcastle Tyne
Lionel, age 1, born in Newcastle Tyne

Is this the same Jacob and Mathilde? The ages are good, birthplaces are
good, and since Katie was born in England, it makes sense to find the family
there. But where in the English Census is Katie (she should be 4)?
Harris should also be there, about age 1. Could Harris (born in New York)
be Lionel (born in Newcastle)? What happened to Edmund?

The information for Jacob and Mathilde is so close, I would think it was a
match. But the children are all wrong, making me think I don't. Can anyone
share any wisdom on what I should do with this data?

Thanks,
- Chuck Culman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen CARO Puzzle #general

Chuck Culman & Alice Fisher
 

I've traced back one branch of my family to Katie CARO, daughter of Jacob
and Mathilde (nee LEWI). The 1870 US Census has the family in New York
City:

Jacob, age 39, born in Russia
Mathilde, age 32, born in Prussia
Kate, age 13, born in England
Harris, age 10, born in New York
Sarah, age 7, born in New York
Leanor(?), age 5, born in New York
Mary, age 3, born in New York
Realca (? hard to read), age 1, born in New York

On her marriage certificate, Katie lists her birthplace as London.

Now for my puzzle. Last week, I ran across an entry >from the 1861 English
Census for Newcastle on the Tyne:

Jacob CARO, age 29, born in Prussia (a naturalized British subject)
Mathilde, age 23, born in Prussia
Edmund, age 2, born in Newcastle Tyne
Lionel, age 1, born in Newcastle Tyne

Is this the same Jacob and Mathilde? The ages are good, birthplaces are
good, and since Katie was born in England, it makes sense to find the family
there. But where in the English Census is Katie (she should be 4)?
Harris should also be there, about age 1. Could Harris (born in New York)
be Lionel (born in Newcastle)? What happened to Edmund?

The information for Jacob and Mathilde is so close, I would think it was a
match. But the children are all wrong, making me think I don't. Can anyone
share any wisdom on what I should do with this data?

Thanks,
- Chuck Culman


Researcher in Switzerland? #general

Sfingold
 

A relative with roots in Basle, Switzerland is looking for a researcher.
My relative was in Basle this summer and the archives had a number of
records. Now, he'd like to find someone to help him with the research.
If you can recommend someone, please reply privately to sfingold@....

Thank you!

Sharon Fingold
sfingold@... (California)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Researcher in Switzerland? #general

Sfingold
 

A relative with roots in Basle, Switzerland is looking for a researcher.
My relative was in Basle this summer and the archives had a number of
records. Now, he'd like to find someone to help him with the research.
If you can recommend someone, please reply privately to sfingold@....

Thank you!

Sharon Fingold
sfingold@... (California)


Re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Michael Samson wrote: "My {maternal} gt-grandparents immigrated to the
Chicago area in 1882. .....My Gt-grandfather was Simon CZECH. He married
Sara Charlotte MANDL. My quandary comes in trying to figure out which of
several spelling is correct for Sara. In some documents she is referred
to as Sara, Sara Charlotte or Charlotte. Her last name is also confusing.
It is sometimes spelled MANDEL or Mandl. We have a stitched sampler ....
which is signed "Lotte MANDELOV." ... The marriage license which was
issued in the town of Pilsen spells her name as MANDEL, so removal of
the "lov" clearly didn't occur when she arrived.... "

There is absolutely no problem about parts of this query. Pilsen is in
Bohemia {Czech Republic today} so I suggest Michael joins the Austria-Czech
SIG, where he can learn all about Pilsen and Bohemian history:
http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/

Charlotte learnt German at school and probably spoke it at home too
[see point 3], as did most Bohemian Jews, and Lotte is just an
abbreviated/familiar form of the name. The fact she is called Sara
on a certificate and Charlotte is also no problem. My Bohemian gt-gt-
grandmother, appears as Sara POPPER on her birth registration
[March 19 1811 Kolin] and as Caroline on her tombstone. One was her
religious name and the other her everyday secular name: Here is her
tombstone in Vienna, with no sign of Sara to be seen:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/1095674677/

As for MANDL - I have four separate spellings in the 1793 Jewish census
of Bohemia: MANDEL MANDL and MANDTL as well as MANDELES.

Now to the problematic part - the name MANDELOV. {sic} on the cross
stitch sampler. There could be various explanations for the suffix "ov":

1. The archaic feminine form [German] is MANDELIN, but the Czech feminine
ending is MANDELOVA. Lotte may not have had room on her sampler to add
the final A. However, she was a young girl and unlikely to call herself
MANDELOVA - also she is unlikely to have used a Czech suffix at this time.

2. If you google some names like FUCHSOV and NEUMANOV you will find they
appertain to men. Again this is nothing to do with a gender ending but
points to a collective family name ie the clan of FUCHS and NEUMAN.
An Austria-Czech member [Hanus Grab] I consulted, who is fluent in Czech
and German wrote to me: this ending, still used in Slovakia,
[FUCHSOV MANDELOV etc] is a plural form of the name - thus "across the
street I saw the MANDELS = this would be the same in German but in
Slovakian one would say "Na protajsi strane ulice som vidiel MANDELOV"
and in modern Czech "Na protilehle strane ulice jsem videl MANDELOVI".

3. The most plausible explanation, however, is that this family still
spoke Yiddish at home, en famille, and little Lotte was using the
Yiddish/Russian suffix to her family name. This family may have been
immigrants to Bohemia >from Galicia, Russia or the Carpathian region,
ie not local Pilsener MANDEL and were first known as MANDELOV.

Whereas MANDL and variants is a very common Jewish family name in
Bohemia - CZECH is extremely rare [as in Simon CZECH, above]. There
is only one CZECH [Joachim] listed in the Bohemian Jewish census of
1793. I now wonder where Simon CZECH came from?

Yes, this "ov" suffix may be a real linguistic genealogical clue, but
has nothing to do with the name! With thanks to Hanus Grab for his
patience in our numerous email exchanges about these two letters.

Celia Male, London, U.K.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Michael Samson wrote: "My {maternal} gt-grandparents immigrated to the
Chicago area in 1882. .....My Gt-grandfather was Simon CZECH. He married
Sara Charlotte MANDL. My quandary comes in trying to figure out which of
several spelling is correct for Sara. In some documents she is referred
to as Sara, Sara Charlotte or Charlotte. Her last name is also confusing.
It is sometimes spelled MANDEL or Mandl. We have a stitched sampler ....
which is signed "Lotte MANDELOV." ... The marriage license which was
issued in the town of Pilsen spells her name as MANDEL, so removal of
the "lov" clearly didn't occur when she arrived.... "

There is absolutely no problem about parts of this query. Pilsen is in
Bohemia {Czech Republic today} so I suggest Michael joins the Austria-Czech
SIG, where he can learn all about Pilsen and Bohemian history:
http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/

Charlotte learnt German at school and probably spoke it at home too
[see point 3], as did most Bohemian Jews, and Lotte is just an
abbreviated/familiar form of the name. The fact she is called Sara
on a certificate and Charlotte is also no problem. My Bohemian gt-gt-
grandmother, appears as Sara POPPER on her birth registration
[March 19 1811 Kolin] and as Caroline on her tombstone. One was her
religious name and the other her everyday secular name: Here is her
tombstone in Vienna, with no sign of Sara to be seen:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/1095674677/

As for MANDL - I have four separate spellings in the 1793 Jewish census
of Bohemia: MANDEL MANDL and MANDTL as well as MANDELES.

Now to the problematic part - the name MANDELOV. {sic} on the cross
stitch sampler. There could be various explanations for the suffix "ov":

1. The archaic feminine form [German] is MANDELIN, but the Czech feminine
ending is MANDELOVA. Lotte may not have had room on her sampler to add
the final A. However, she was a young girl and unlikely to call herself
MANDELOVA - also she is unlikely to have used a Czech suffix at this time.

2. If you google some names like FUCHSOV and NEUMANOV you will find they
appertain to men. Again this is nothing to do with a gender ending but
points to a collective family name ie the clan of FUCHS and NEUMAN.
An Austria-Czech member [Hanus Grab] I consulted, who is fluent in Czech
and German wrote to me: this ending, still used in Slovakia,
[FUCHSOV MANDELOV etc] is a plural form of the name - thus "across the
street I saw the MANDELS = this would be the same in German but in
Slovakian one would say "Na protajsi strane ulice som vidiel MANDELOV"
and in modern Czech "Na protilehle strane ulice jsem videl MANDELOVI".

3. The most plausible explanation, however, is that this family still
spoke Yiddish at home, en famille, and little Lotte was using the
Yiddish/Russian suffix to her family name. This family may have been
immigrants to Bohemia >from Galicia, Russia or the Carpathian region,
ie not local Pilsener MANDEL and were first known as MANDELOV.

Whereas MANDL and variants is a very common Jewish family name in
Bohemia - CZECH is extremely rare [as in Simon CZECH, above]. There
is only one CZECH [Joachim] listed in the Bohemian Jewish census of
1793. I now wonder where Simon CZECH came from?

Yes, this "ov" suffix may be a real linguistic genealogical clue, but
has nothing to do with the name! With thanks to Hanus Grab for his
patience in our numerous email exchanges about these two letters.

Celia Male, London, U.K.


Re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/21/2008 11:10:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mikesammy@... writes:
<< My G-grandfather was Simon CZECH. He married Sara Charlotte
MANDL. My quandary comes in trying to figure out which of several spelling
is correct for Sara. In some documents she is referred to as Sara, Sara
Charlotte or Charlotte. Her last name is also confusing. It is sometimes
spelled MANDEL or Mandl.

==My mother, born in Fuerth Bavaria in 1906, in a very Orthodox family, was
given the Hebrew name Sara, after her grandmother Sara Timmendorfer, born
Silesia, 1838. Both were also given the secular name Charlotte. (In Hebrew,
the initials S and Ch [when pronounced Sh] are spelled with the similar
letters Seen and Sheen, differentiated only by the placement of one dot.
Sara/Charlotte appears to have been a very common combination in Germanic
countries.

==Mendel is the kinnuy (common companion name) of the Hebrew name
Menachem. How it developed is an interesting story; anyone interested
can find it in the jewishgen archives. Mendel was often written Mendl
or Mandel. Other variants were Mann and Menlein. Surnames derived
from it included Mandelbaum, Mandelkorn, Mandelbrot and, of course,
Mendelsohn.

==The personal name Mendel was often "germanized" as Emmanuel
(an otherwise rare name among Jews, though it is >from the Hebrew).
In around 1880 it was often further "germanized" as Emil.

== the -ov suffix is Slavic. I believe it means "child of."

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...


Re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

cecilia <myths@...>
 

Mike Samson wrote:

[...]
"Lotte MANDELOV." Oh boy, another spelling! For years I wondered who the
heck was Lotte Mandelov? Then it dawned on me that Lotte might be a nick
name for Charlotte and that Mandelov might be another spelling for Mandel.
[...] Can anyone tell me under what circumstances "lov" might be added to a
name? I assume it's fall along the same lines as "..ski" or ".sky" in Polish
or ".ensky" or ".loff" in Russian. Did this have something to do with her
status as a minor or a female?

Also, is the name "Lotte" a typical nickname for someone named Charlotte?
Lotte is a very typical nickname for Charlotte.

(Search Google for
Charlotte Lotte
for examples.)

I think (but this is only through web-surfing) that the addition is
-OV rather than -LOV.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name_affixes
for the suffix -ov.

(See also - but I have no idea if ancestry is correct -
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Mandel-family-history.ashx
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Mandl-family-history.ashx )

Cecilia Nyleve


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/21/2008 11:10:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mikesammy@... writes:
<< My G-grandfather was Simon CZECH. He married Sara Charlotte
MANDL. My quandary comes in trying to figure out which of several spelling
is correct for Sara. In some documents she is referred to as Sara, Sara
Charlotte or Charlotte. Her last name is also confusing. It is sometimes
spelled MANDEL or Mandl.

==My mother, born in Fuerth Bavaria in 1906, in a very Orthodox family, was
given the Hebrew name Sara, after her grandmother Sara Timmendorfer, born
Silesia, 1838. Both were also given the secular name Charlotte. (In Hebrew,
the initials S and Ch [when pronounced Sh] are spelled with the similar
letters Seen and Sheen, differentiated only by the placement of one dot.
Sara/Charlotte appears to have been a very common combination in Germanic
countries.

==Mendel is the kinnuy (common companion name) of the Hebrew name
Menachem. How it developed is an interesting story; anyone interested
can find it in the jewishgen archives. Mendel was often written Mendl
or Mandel. Other variants were Mann and Menlein. Surnames derived
from it included Mandelbaum, Mandelkorn, Mandelbrot and, of course,
Mendelsohn.

==The personal name Mendel was often "germanized" as Emmanuel
(an otherwise rare name among Jews, though it is >from the Hebrew).
In around 1880 it was often further "germanized" as Emil.

== the -ov suffix is Slavic. I believe it means "child of."

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Name spellings - MANDL, MANDEL, MANDELOV #general

cecilia <myths@...>
 

Mike Samson wrote:

[...]
"Lotte MANDELOV." Oh boy, another spelling! For years I wondered who the
heck was Lotte Mandelov? Then it dawned on me that Lotte might be a nick
name for Charlotte and that Mandelov might be another spelling for Mandel.
[...] Can anyone tell me under what circumstances "lov" might be added to a
name? I assume it's fall along the same lines as "..ski" or ".sky" in Polish
or ".ensky" or ".loff" in Russian. Did this have something to do with her
status as a minor or a female?

Also, is the name "Lotte" a typical nickname for someone named Charlotte?
Lotte is a very typical nickname for Charlotte.

(Search Google for
Charlotte Lotte
for examples.)

I think (but this is only through web-surfing) that the addition is
-OV rather than -LOV.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name_affixes
for the suffix -ov.

(See also - but I have no idea if ancestry is correct -
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Mandel-family-history.ashx
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Mandl-family-history.ashx )

Cecilia Nyleve


Re: Names of maabarot - correction #general

MBernet@...
 

MODERATOR NOTE, In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:43:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time,
<< Maabarot were refugee tent camps in the early days
of the State of Israel.

==Many ma'abarot consisted of quite sturdy, well-built huts. Some included
buildings that had been abandoned by the British or by Arabs. I visited or
overnighted at quite a few of them 1949-51.

The word ma`abar (sing) means transition

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Names of maabarot - correction #general

MBernet@...
 

MODERATOR NOTE, In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:43:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time,
<< Maabarot were refugee tent camps in the early days
of the State of Israel.

==Many ma'abarot consisted of quite sturdy, well-built huts. Some included
buildings that had been abandoned by the British or by Arabs. I visited or
overnighted at quite a few of them 1949-51.

The word ma`abar (sing) means transition

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...


Re: Additions to NARA (USA) Records and Louisiana Death Records #general

david rubin <dovrubin1@...>
 

---On Sun, 9/21/08, jan meisels allen <janmallen@...> wrote:
The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) [USA]
has added to their "Access To Archival Databases (AAD) passenger lists
Russians to America Passenger Data File 1834-1897
Germans to America Data File 1850-1897
Italians to America Data File 1855-1900
Great information. I did notice that when I searched the
Russian files I was only given the manifest number for each
individual record. To get the date, ship and port of departure
information I had to search the number in the Manifest Header
Data File. If there is some easier way it would be nice to
know.

Sincerely,
David Rubin


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Additions to NARA (USA) Records and Louisiana Death Records #general

david rubin <dovrubin1@...>
 

---On Sun, 9/21/08, jan meisels allen <janmallen@...> wrote:
The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) [USA]
has added to their "Access To Archival Databases (AAD) passenger lists
Russians to America Passenger Data File 1834-1897
Germans to America Data File 1850-1897
Italians to America Data File 1855-1900
Great information. I did notice that when I searched the
Russian files I was only given the manifest number for each
individual record. To get the date, ship and port of departure
information I had to search the number in the Manifest Header
Data File. If there is some easier way it would be nice to
know.

Sincerely,
David Rubin