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Re: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The 1858 Revision List would have been started when Chava was young, so it
would be relatively accurate for what was then 'recent'. There is a long gap
between Chava and the previous child; so I would guess that there might have been
something that happened in between - the usual would be to have another baby
every year or two. Perhaps there was a epidemic which killed several of the
babies born in the interim; perhaps there was a previous wife who died with
them. Chava comes at the end; she may have been born after the kids died and
she also may have been born to the 'previous wife', weakened by the epidemic,
who then died soon after. Maybe this 'Rachel' wife died in childbirth and there
was a third wife. Obviously, there is no way to tell exactly what happened >from
thislist, but a 10 year gap between babies is very unusual.

It could be that one or the other wife had a double name Rachel Sarah or
something,so we see her as one thing in the Revision List and the other in your
family memory.

It is also possible that 100 years later Sarah (Sorka) became Rachel in
somebody's memory (this reminds me of my family - my great grandfather had a
sister who 'went to Oklahoma, then Chicago and married somebody'- it was Omaha,
not Oklahoma).

Anyway, you have a lot of records to look at , maybe you can find something else
that says what her name was.

I also think that Yaker would be >from Jacob - Yakub.

Good luck,

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: SIROTA family from Butrimonys, Lithuania #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The 1858 Revision List would have been started when Chava was young, so it
would be relatively accurate for what was then 'recent'. There is a long gap
between Chava and the previous child; so I would guess that there might have been
something that happened in between - the usual would be to have another baby
every year or two. Perhaps there was a epidemic which killed several of the
babies born in the interim; perhaps there was a previous wife who died with
them. Chava comes at the end; she may have been born after the kids died and
she also may have been born to the 'previous wife', weakened by the epidemic,
who then died soon after. Maybe this 'Rachel' wife died in childbirth and there
was a third wife. Obviously, there is no way to tell exactly what happened >from
thislist, but a 10 year gap between babies is very unusual.

It could be that one or the other wife had a double name Rachel Sarah or
something,so we see her as one thing in the Revision List and the other in your
family memory.

It is also possible that 100 years later Sarah (Sorka) became Rachel in
somebody's memory (this reminds me of my family - my great grandfather had a
sister who 'went to Oklahoma, then Chicago and married somebody'- it was Omaha,
not Oklahoma).

Anyway, you have a lot of records to look at , maybe you can find something else
that says what her name was.

I also think that Yaker would be >from Jacob - Yakub.

Good luck,

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ
Re: Coblenz #general

Carol Baker
 

Thank you all for your suggestions. I did make a mistake in my last
posting. The date was 1889 Not 1899. I'm still searching and checking out
all of your ideas.

Carol Baker

I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list leaving
Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via Glasgow. The ship is
listed as the Leith line. I can not find any arrivals of this ship in the
USA.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Coblenz #general

Carol Baker
 

Thank you all for your suggestions. I did make a mistake in my last
posting. The date was 1889 Not 1899. I'm still searching and checking out
all of your ideas.

Carol Baker

I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list leaving
Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via Glasgow. The ship is
listed as the Leith line. I can not find any arrivals of this ship in the
USA.
Joanna STERN #general

Efraim Stern
 

Dear Sigers!

Can someone help me please? I am seeking my fathers sister (He never knew
about her as his father did not tell him about her). All what I know about
Johanna STERN is:

Bertha MAYER >from RODHEIM VOR DER HOEHE near FRANKFURT am MAIN gave birth to
a daughter named Johanna on the 20/11/1899 in METZ.

Later a merchant named Jean VON TULTEE or DULDEE >from STRASBURG Brighthoehe
str. 19 adopted her.

Years after Ludwig Louis STERN >from WUERZBURG registered her as his
daughter. Johanna was entered as second child although she was born before
my father Siegfried (Schlomo) STERN who was born 5/3/1903.
Please answer privately to:e_stern@gonen.org.il

EFRAIM STERN.KIBUTZ GONEN.ISRAEL
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Joanna STERN #general

Efraim Stern
 

Dear Sigers!

Can someone help me please? I am seeking my fathers sister (He never knew
about her as his father did not tell him about her). All what I know about
Johanna STERN is:

Bertha MAYER >from RODHEIM VOR DER HOEHE near FRANKFURT am MAIN gave birth to
a daughter named Johanna on the 20/11/1899 in METZ.

Later a merchant named Jean VON TULTEE or DULDEE >from STRASBURG Brighthoehe
str. 19 adopted her.

Years after Ludwig Louis STERN >from WUERZBURG registered her as his
daughter. Johanna was entered as second child although she was born before
my father Siegfried (Schlomo) STERN who was born 5/3/1903.
Please answer privately to:e_stern@gonen.org.il

EFRAIM STERN.KIBUTZ GONEN.ISRAEL
Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Carol Baker wrote:
I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list
leaving Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via
Glasgow. The ship is listed as the Leith line. I can not find any
arrivals of this ship in the USA.
Difficult if you do not give particulars about the person.

About the line and the ship:

Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/leith.htm
Coblenz 1883, 1932 scrapped.

Picture:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/leith/images/coblenz.jpg

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/lyakhovichi/MigrationTables1.htm
shows many arrivals >from the Coblenz to Castle Garden.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Carol Baker wrote:
I have just found an ancestor on the Hamburg indirect passenger list
leaving Hamburg on 2 Aug 1899 for America on the ss. Coblenz via
Glasgow. The ship is listed as the Leith line. I can not find any
arrivals of this ship in the USA.
Difficult if you do not give particulars about the person.

About the line and the ship:

Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/leith.htm
Coblenz 1883, 1932 scrapped.

Picture:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/leith/images/coblenz.jpg

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/lyakhovichi/MigrationTables1.htm
shows many arrivals >from the Coblenz to Castle Garden.

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Susan&David
 

Carol:
Ancestry shows only one arrival of the ship in the US. >from Bremen to
Philadelphia arriving Dec 10, 1900.
There is no mention of the Coblenz in the on-line Historic New York
Times for August - September 1899. Ship arrivals & departures were
listed in their "Shipping and Foreign Mails" column daily.
The indirect list is an indication that your passenger transferred to
another ship in Glagow. Apparently the Coblenz did not go on to the USA.

David Rosen
Boston, MA
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Passenger on ship Coblenz #general

Susan&David
 

Carol:
Ancestry shows only one arrival of the ship in the US. >from Bremen to
Philadelphia arriving Dec 10, 1900.
There is no mention of the Coblenz in the on-line Historic New York
Times for August - September 1899. Ship arrivals & departures were
listed in their "Shipping and Foreign Mails" column daily.
The indirect list is an indication that your passenger transferred to
another ship in Glagow. Apparently the Coblenz did not go on to the USA.

David Rosen
Boston, MA
Translations from Polish cursive script #poland

Alan Kutner <alan.kutner@...>
 

I have obtained >from the Polish State Archives a copy of a death certificate
written in Polish cursive script, and would be grateful if anyone could
help me translate it into English?

Kind Regards,
Alan KUTNER
JewishGen ID: 242624
Researching: SKOKOWSKI - Dabie, Dobrsyn nad Wisla; VAVELBERG, WAWELBERG -
anywhere in the Russian Empire

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.
JRI Poland #Poland Translations from Polish cursive script #poland

Alan Kutner <alan.kutner@...>
 

I have obtained >from the Polish State Archives a copy of a death certificate
written in Polish cursive script, and would be grateful if anyone could
help me translate it into English?

Kind Regards,
Alan KUTNER
JewishGen ID: 242624
Researching: SKOKOWSKI - Dabie, Dobrsyn nad Wisla; VAVELBERG, WAWELBERG -
anywhere in the Russian Empire

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.
Re: 1891 Galician Business Directory #galicia

Judy Salomon
 

I tried to find the families of my 4 grandparents who I know lived
in Galicia in 1891. I looked up both Surname and Town using Soundex.
None of them were listed. I did find the towns but neither they nor
spousal surnames were listed. So my question is, were some people
not listed in the business directory? Why would none of them be
listed?

Judy Salomon
New Jersey

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@hotmail.com> wrote:

... One of the best sources of finding whether your family was
involved in the alcohol trade is to search in the 1891 Galician
Business Directory.

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/galicia1891.htm ...
Re: Jews and Taverns in Galicia #galicia

Gene Dershewitz <geneder@...>
 

Mark,

Maybe the rules or enforcement for Jews in the liquor trade was
different in the SW part of Galicia. I know that Solomon
Deresiewicz was indeed the proprietor of an tavern/inn in
Kamienica >from family stories as well as documents. One of
Solomon's sons, Juda Leib (Louis), was born in 1917 at the same
establishment listed on the lease contract (house # 302 in
Kamienica). On that birth certificate (actually drawn in 1920),
Solomon's profession is listed as "szynkarz" which is the Polish
word for a tavern or inn keeper. This birth registration can be
viewed at:

<http://flickr.com/photos/38197980@N00/3083125682/sizes/l/in/set-721576107069
65564/>

Two of Solomon's younger unmarried brothers immigrated to the US
in the early 1900s. All of his sisters, father and mother remained
in Poland.

Gene Dershewitz
Marion, Oregon

Researching:
DERESIEWICZ - Kamienica/Stary Sacz/Labowa, Galicia;
FREI/FREY - Labowa, Galicia; SINGER - Lukowica, Galicia;
LEIBLER - Lukowica, Galicia
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: 1891 Galician Business Directory #galicia

Judy Salomon
 

I tried to find the families of my 4 grandparents who I know lived
in Galicia in 1891. I looked up both Surname and Town using Soundex.
None of them were listed. I did find the towns but neither they nor
spousal surnames were listed. So my question is, were some people
not listed in the business directory? Why would none of them be
listed?

Judy Salomon
New Jersey

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@hotmail.com> wrote:

... One of the best sources of finding whether your family was
involved in the alcohol trade is to search in the 1891 Galician
Business Directory.

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/galicia1891.htm ...
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia RE: Jews and Taverns in Galicia #galicia

Gene Dershewitz <geneder@...>
 

Mark,

Maybe the rules or enforcement for Jews in the liquor trade was
different in the SW part of Galicia. I know that Solomon
Deresiewicz was indeed the proprietor of an tavern/inn in
Kamienica >from family stories as well as documents. One of
Solomon's sons, Juda Leib (Louis), was born in 1917 at the same
establishment listed on the lease contract (house # 302 in
Kamienica). On that birth certificate (actually drawn in 1920),
Solomon's profession is listed as "szynkarz" which is the Polish
word for a tavern or inn keeper. This birth registration can be
viewed at:

<http://flickr.com/photos/38197980@N00/3083125682/sizes/l/in/set-721576107069
65564/>

Two of Solomon's younger unmarried brothers immigrated to the US
in the early 1900s. All of his sisters, father and mother remained
in Poland.

Gene Dershewitz
Marion, Oregon

Researching:
DERESIEWICZ - Kamienica/Stary Sacz/Labowa, Galicia;
FREI/FREY - Labowa, Galicia; SINGER - Lukowica, Galicia;
LEIBLER - Lukowica, Galicia
Phiadelphia 09 Conference Discussion Group is Now Starting #galicia

ANNE LEE <federlee@...>
 

We are very pleased to announce that the 29th IAJGS International
Conference on Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group is now starting.

This is the discussion group to join to learn more about the
conference. Those who subscribe can ask questions about the
conference and Philadelphia as well as answer questions that
others pose. It is a moderated discussion group like all other
such Jewishgen groups. The co-hosts of the conference, IAJGS and
JGSGP, thank Jewishgen for once again making a conference
discussion group possible.

YOU will make the difference in the success of this discussion
group for we rely on all of you to ask questions, share
information about how to get the most out of a conference, tell
about all the great things in Philadelphia, and so forth. Once the
conference program is announced, this is a very good forum for
telling others about various speakers who will be present, about
SIG and BOF meetings, and about any other activities you think
important to watch out for.

You can learn how to subscribe to the Philadelphia '09 discussion
group at the conference website: www.Philly2009.org. Scroll down
the left-hand buttons to the one that says Conference Discussion
Group. Click on that button and you will find all the information.
Actual subscription is done at www.jewishgen.org

We look forward to your participation in our Philadelphia '09
conference group as well as seeing you in Philadelphia. The program
is shaping up to be a very exciting one and there will be many
wonderful activities available.

See you there!

Conference Co-chairs: Anne Feder Lee and David Mink
Re: Jews and Taverns in Galicia #galicia

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

I find this contract very interesting and confusing. Maybe someone
can explain. Read on.

My grandfather was in the business in Plaucza Wielka, a small
village near Kozlow and Zborow in what is now Ukraine. Although I
have no documents, my grandfather had the leasehold to grow the
grain, produce the spirits, and operate the village tavern. My
father and his brothers indicated that this was a prosperous
business. In 1909, my father's eldest brother, at age 17, left the
fold and immigrated to New York, followed by another brother in
1913, and two other brothers, including my father, in 1921. All
his sons left my 60 year old grandfather.

Until I started documenting the family history, I never knew why
the four brothers emigrated, leaving their parents and sisters
behind. One day I read (cannot recall where) that in 1909 a law
was passed in Galicia prohibiting Jews >from selling alcoholic
beverages starting in 1910. I though that explained my family's
emigration. If this was true throughout Galicia, how could Solomon
Deresiewicz lease such a business in 1911, when Moses Halpern
could not?

By the way, for those near Philadelphia, Dr. Glenn Dynner of Sarah
Lawrence College will speak at Beth Shalom Congregation in Elkins
Park, PA on "Jews in the Liquor Trade in Nineteenth-Century Poland."
as part of the Penn (University of Pennsylvania) Lectures in Judaic
Studies. The lecture -- on Thursday, March 19, at 7:00 p.m. -- is
free and open to the public. Hopefully, Dr. Dynner will be able to
also speak to 20th Century Galicia. For details see
<http://www.cjs.upenn.edu/public/2009/lectures.html> .

Thanks in advance for any insight on this issue.

Mark Halpern
West Chester, PA, USA

Gene Dershewitz wrote:

My grandfather, Solomon Deresiewicz, leased a tavern business
in 1911 in the village of Kamienica SE of Krakow. I was fortunate
to inherit the actual legal document describing the transaction.
Although written in Polish "legalise" it does make interesting
reading. You can view this document at:

<http://flickr.com/photos/38197980@N00/sets/72157608218653461/detail/> ...
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Phiadelphia 09 Conference Discussion Group is Now Starting #galicia

ANNE LEE <federlee@...>
 

We are very pleased to announce that the 29th IAJGS International
Conference on Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group is now starting.

This is the discussion group to join to learn more about the
conference. Those who subscribe can ask questions about the
conference and Philadelphia as well as answer questions that
others pose. It is a moderated discussion group like all other
such Jewishgen groups. The co-hosts of the conference, IAJGS and
JGSGP, thank Jewishgen for once again making a conference
discussion group possible.

YOU will make the difference in the success of this discussion
group for we rely on all of you to ask questions, share
information about how to get the most out of a conference, tell
about all the great things in Philadelphia, and so forth. Once the
conference program is announced, this is a very good forum for
telling others about various speakers who will be present, about
SIG and BOF meetings, and about any other activities you think
important to watch out for.

You can learn how to subscribe to the Philadelphia '09 discussion
group at the conference website: www.Philly2009.org. Scroll down
the left-hand buttons to the one that says Conference Discussion
Group. Click on that button and you will find all the information.
Actual subscription is done at www.jewishgen.org

We look forward to your participation in our Philadelphia '09
conference group as well as seeing you in Philadelphia. The program
is shaping up to be a very exciting one and there will be many
wonderful activities available.

See you there!

Conference Co-chairs: Anne Feder Lee and David Mink
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Jews and Taverns in Galicia #galicia

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

I find this contract very interesting and confusing. Maybe someone
can explain. Read on.

My grandfather was in the business in Plaucza Wielka, a small
village near Kozlow and Zborow in what is now Ukraine. Although I
have no documents, my grandfather had the leasehold to grow the
grain, produce the spirits, and operate the village tavern. My
father and his brothers indicated that this was a prosperous
business. In 1909, my father's eldest brother, at age 17, left the
fold and immigrated to New York, followed by another brother in
1913, and two other brothers, including my father, in 1921. All
his sons left my 60 year old grandfather.

Until I started documenting the family history, I never knew why
the four brothers emigrated, leaving their parents and sisters
behind. One day I read (cannot recall where) that in 1909 a law
was passed in Galicia prohibiting Jews >from selling alcoholic
beverages starting in 1910. I though that explained my family's
emigration. If this was true throughout Galicia, how could Solomon
Deresiewicz lease such a business in 1911, when Moses Halpern
could not?

By the way, for those near Philadelphia, Dr. Glenn Dynner of Sarah
Lawrence College will speak at Beth Shalom Congregation in Elkins
Park, PA on "Jews in the Liquor Trade in Nineteenth-Century Poland."
as part of the Penn (University of Pennsylvania) Lectures in Judaic
Studies. The lecture -- on Thursday, March 19, at 7:00 p.m. -- is
free and open to the public. Hopefully, Dr. Dynner will be able to
also speak to 20th Century Galicia. For details see
<http://www.cjs.upenn.edu/public/2009/lectures.html> .

Thanks in advance for any insight on this issue.

Mark Halpern
West Chester, PA, USA

Gene Dershewitz wrote:

My grandfather, Solomon Deresiewicz, leased a tavern business
in 1911 in the village of Kamienica SE of Krakow. I was fortunate
to inherit the actual legal document describing the transaction.
Although written in Polish "legalise" it does make interesting
reading. You can view this document at:

<http://flickr.com/photos/38197980@N00/sets/72157608218653461/detail/> ...
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