Date   
Translation of Slovak Archives Letter - VM 5517 #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <macguffin317@...>
 

Hi all,

I recently received a letter >from the Slovak Archives containing information
about my HOLZMANN family >from the Trencin region -- But I can't figure out
what it says. I'd greatly appreciate if someone could translate this one
page letter for me - it took them nearly a year to respond to my query and
I'm curious to see what it says!

Thank you in advance for your help -- I really appreciate it. Please
respond privately.

Rebecca Fenning
Boston, MA

Moderator: Instead of transcribing the letter you can scan it and upload to JewishGen's ViewMate page. Go to http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ for information. After you have done this, send a message to H-SIG with the number of the ViewMate file.

Re: Slovak Archives #hungary

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Judith,

I've used the archives several times with great success and even visited
them in 1998.
The old forms are still O.K., though you can expect to pay more than the
quoted rates in 1996. The cost usually runs around $10-$12 per record
including all administrative and postal costs. The running account is more
cost-effective than using the individual accounts and I have requested the
more demanding research level. Even though I offered to pay about
$300-$400, the final charge came to $100-$240 per project.

You need not use separate forms for your GGPs as long as they were >from the
same region and you make it clear on the form or in a cover letter that you
request a thorough search of ancestors, siblings and descendants. Keep in
mind, however, that there are several regional archives throughout
Slovakia. Initial requests are sent to the Minister of Interior in
Bratislava. This office then forwards the application to the appropriate
region or regions. I am not certain how the Minister handles such
applications for distribution among the archives. In any case, you can
expect to receive a letter acknowledging receipt of the application, an
assigned case number (or numbers), and further instructions if more
information is needed. Beyond this stage, expect a long delay of several
months to over a year before you hear >from the Minister regarding payment
arrangements and receipt of the records. They will accept Bank Cashiers
Checks among other forms of payment.

Send them photocopies and FHL numbers if you think that will help. It
certainly won't hurt to try.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC

KLEIN, DIAMANT, GRUNHUT, and SZURAN/SURAN (Western Slovakia)
DEUTSCH, NEMETH, FEIG and PERL (Transylvania)
KELLER and GOLDSMITH (Israel)

Hi:
>
>I am planning to write to the Slovak archives to see if they have
>information on my family. The only on-line information (at
>iarelative) is dated >from 1996.There is a form for a running account
>on-line that dates >from 1996. By the way, I have all the information
>available >from the FHL films (a goodly amount)
>
>A search of the H-Sig site has the address in Bratislava.
>
>Does anyone have any more recent information?
>
>
>Questions
>
>Is the old form for a running account still Ok?
>
>About how much money should I specify?
>
>Should I include photocopies of the information I have found (and FHL film
>numbers/)
>
>When trying to locate family (parents and siblings) of a couple (GGM and
>GGF) I assume a separate form is appropriate for each.
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Judy Deutsch Bennett

Post office within the Budapest ghetto #hungary

M & D Gordon <mirda@...>
 

According to our knowledge, there was an intention to operate a post office within the
ghetto of Budapest.
The office was prepared and was ready to operate, but finally did not became functional.
Has anybody heard on the subject? If yes, please write to us publicly or privately.

Miryam & David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel

Hungary SIG #Hungary Translation of Slovak Archives Letter - VM 5517 #hungary

Rebecca Fenning <macguffin317@...>
 

Hi all,

I recently received a letter >from the Slovak Archives containing information
about my HOLZMANN family >from the Trencin region -- But I can't figure out
what it says. I'd greatly appreciate if someone could translate this one
page letter for me - it took them nearly a year to respond to my query and
I'm curious to see what it says!

Thank you in advance for your help -- I really appreciate it. Please
respond privately.

Rebecca Fenning
Boston, MA

Moderator: Instead of transcribing the letter you can scan it and upload to JewishGen's ViewMate page. Go to http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ for information. After you have done this, send a message to H-SIG with the number of the ViewMate file.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Slovak Archives #hungary

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Judith,

I've used the archives several times with great success and even visited
them in 1998.
The old forms are still O.K., though you can expect to pay more than the
quoted rates in 1996. The cost usually runs around $10-$12 per record
including all administrative and postal costs. The running account is more
cost-effective than using the individual accounts and I have requested the
more demanding research level. Even though I offered to pay about
$300-$400, the final charge came to $100-$240 per project.

You need not use separate forms for your GGPs as long as they were >from the
same region and you make it clear on the form or in a cover letter that you
request a thorough search of ancestors, siblings and descendants. Keep in
mind, however, that there are several regional archives throughout
Slovakia. Initial requests are sent to the Minister of Interior in
Bratislava. This office then forwards the application to the appropriate
region or regions. I am not certain how the Minister handles such
applications for distribution among the archives. In any case, you can
expect to receive a letter acknowledging receipt of the application, an
assigned case number (or numbers), and further instructions if more
information is needed. Beyond this stage, expect a long delay of several
months to over a year before you hear >from the Minister regarding payment
arrangements and receipt of the records. They will accept Bank Cashiers
Checks among other forms of payment.

Send them photocopies and FHL numbers if you think that will help. It
certainly won't hurt to try.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC

KLEIN, DIAMANT, GRUNHUT, and SZURAN/SURAN (Western Slovakia)
DEUTSCH, NEMETH, FEIG and PERL (Transylvania)
KELLER and GOLDSMITH (Israel)

Hi:
>
>I am planning to write to the Slovak archives to see if they have
>information on my family. The only on-line information (at
>iarelative) is dated >from 1996.There is a form for a running account
>on-line that dates >from 1996. By the way, I have all the information
>available >from the FHL films (a goodly amount)
>
>A search of the H-Sig site has the address in Bratislava.
>
>Does anyone have any more recent information?
>
>
>Questions
>
>Is the old form for a running account still Ok?
>
>About how much money should I specify?
>
>Should I include photocopies of the information I have found (and FHL film
>numbers/)
>
>When trying to locate family (parents and siblings) of a couple (GGM and
>GGF) I assume a separate form is appropriate for each.
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Judy Deutsch Bennett

Hungary SIG #Hungary Post office within the Budapest ghetto #hungary

M & D Gordon <mirda@...>
 

According to our knowledge, there was an intention to operate a post office within the
ghetto of Budapest.
The office was prepared and was ready to operate, but finally did not became functional.
Has anybody heard on the subject? If yes, please write to us publicly or privately.

Miryam & David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

meretz
 

Back in Moravia we have also never heard another name for cauliflower except
Karfiol, We learned about Blumenkohl only >from the Yekes (German Jews),
when we came to Palestine and used to laugh about this term which seemed
ridiculous to us.
However, the song "Hunger Hunger Marmelade Karbonade" is included in
"Index Volkslieder Verzeichnis" - http://ingeb.org/Volksohi.html

Uriel Meretz
Ramat-Hasharon, Israel

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

meretz
 

Back in Moravia we have also never heard another name for cauliflower except
Karfiol, We learned about Blumenkohl only >from the Yekes (German Jews),
when we came to Palestine and used to laugh about this term which seemed
ridiculous to us.
However, the song "Hunger Hunger Marmelade Karbonade" is included in
"Index Volkslieder Verzeichnis" - http://ingeb.org/Volksohi.html

Uriel Meretz
Ramat-Hasharon, Israel

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia is looking for the missing words in a rhyme
his family used to sing when hiking. As I mentioned in my previous posting,
this cannot be a Viennese song, because of the word "Blumenkohl". Other
linguistic pointers to a German, as opposed to a Viennese origin, are the
words "Kartoffel" [Viennese = Erdapfel] & "Krumel" with umlaut [Viennese =
Brosel - with umlaut].

I have recipe books of my grandmother going back many, many years! These
books are also interesting genealogical resources as the recipes are prefaced,
for example, with "Tante Marie's Marillenknodel" etc

Robert, you can find the answer to your question in a German "Senior Citizens'
chat group"!

http://www.seniorentreff.ch/diskussion/archiv6/a1286.html
nb: one long URL

Translation of the German text: When we were schoolchildren, we used to sing
the following song at youth hostels before our meals. Does anyone still
remember it?

Well, Robert did [partially!].

Marmelade, Karbonade, Eisbein, Schnitzel, Blumenkohl,
Salat.... oh Erdbeertorte, oh Kuchenkrumel,
Bratkartoffeln.... wir haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger,
haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger, haben Hunger, Hunger,
Hunger, haben Durst ...!!

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia is looking for the missing words in a rhyme
his family used to sing when hiking. As I mentioned in my previous posting,
this cannot be a Viennese song, because of the word "Blumenkohl". Other
linguistic pointers to a German, as opposed to a Viennese origin, are the
words "Kartoffel" [Viennese = Erdapfel] & "Krumel" with umlaut [Viennese =
Brosel - with umlaut].

I have recipe books of my grandmother going back many, many years! These
books are also interesting genealogical resources as the recipes are prefaced,
for example, with "Tante Marie's Marillenknodel" etc

Robert, you can find the answer to your question in a German "Senior Citizens'
chat group"!

http://www.seniorentreff.ch/diskussion/archiv6/a1286.html
nb: one long URL

Translation of the German text: When we were schoolchildren, we used to sing
the following song at youth hostels before our meals. Does anyone still
remember it?

Well, Robert did [partially!].

Marmelade, Karbonade, Eisbein, Schnitzel, Blumenkohl,
Salat.... oh Erdbeertorte, oh Kuchenkrumel,
Bratkartoffeln.... wir haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger,
haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger, haben Hunger, Hunger,
Hunger, haben Durst ...!!

Celia Male [UK]

Herman from Luzan #austria-czech

CMBerkowitz@...
 

One of my husband's great grandparents, Chaim HERMAN, immigrated to the US
on 3 September 1899. On the ship's passenger list it states his hometown as
Luzan, Austria. Does anyone know if this is what is now the Czech Republic.
Another possible clue, they also immigrated with Soshe PASTERNAK and Eidel
SEIDNER. Eidel was also >from Luzan but Soshe was >from Wiznitz, or at least
that's what it looked like. On US census records they state their native language
is Polish.

Thank you,
Cindy Berkowitz
New Jersey, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked at the GemeindeView list of towns on the
Austria-Czech web site? http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/gemeinde.htm
Another good tool for locating places is the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Herman from Luzan #austria-czech

CMBerkowitz@...
 

One of my husband's great grandparents, Chaim HERMAN, immigrated to the US
on 3 September 1899. On the ship's passenger list it states his hometown as
Luzan, Austria. Does anyone know if this is what is now the Czech Republic.
Another possible clue, they also immigrated with Soshe PASTERNAK and Eidel
SEIDNER. Eidel was also >from Luzan but Soshe was >from Wiznitz, or at least
that's what it looked like. On US census records they state their native language
is Polish.

Thank you,
Cindy Berkowitz
New Jersey, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked at the GemeindeView list of towns on the
Austria-Czech web site? http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/gemeinde.htm
Another good tool for locating places is the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Search: ALTSCHUL, VERSTAENDIG, KANTUREK #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Searching for Heinz VERSTAENDIG (born in Vienna on December 18th 1931) son
of Adolf ALTSCHUL (his mother's name was Hedwig FISCHEL and father Emil
Altschul - he had a sister Jana). Adolf, born in Vienna 1910, lived in
Prague and Brno, arrived in Britain on December 2nd 1947 (was living at
45 Arundel Gardens London W.11). He gave his profession (to the JRC) as
'journalist'. I do not know why father and son had different last names.
They both registered with the JRC in London on the same day December 18th,
1947. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Another cousin of my mothers' (in addition to ALTSCHUL) was Otto KANTUREK.
He was the son of Hilda FISCHEL and a well known cinematographer who
worked with Fritz LANG. During the War he worked as a photojournalist in
Britain and flew between Dover and Calle when he was shot down. (photo of
the plane being shot down was published in LIFE magazine - I have not been
able to find it yet). I am searching for any information on Otto KANTUREK
or any survivors of his immediate family. He was married in Edmond (does
anyone know where that is?) and may have had children.

Thanks.
Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Search: ALTSCHUL, VERSTAENDIG, KANTUREK #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Searching for Heinz VERSTAENDIG (born in Vienna on December 18th 1931) son
of Adolf ALTSCHUL (his mother's name was Hedwig FISCHEL and father Emil
Altschul - he had a sister Jana). Adolf, born in Vienna 1910, lived in
Prague and Brno, arrived in Britain on December 2nd 1947 (was living at
45 Arundel Gardens London W.11). He gave his profession (to the JRC) as
'journalist'. I do not know why father and son had different last names.
They both registered with the JRC in London on the same day December 18th,
1947. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Another cousin of my mothers' (in addition to ALTSCHUL) was Otto KANTUREK.
He was the son of Hilda FISCHEL and a well known cinematographer who
worked with Fritz LANG. During the War he worked as a photojournalist in
Britain and flew between Dover and Calle when he was shot down. (photo of
the plane being shot down was published in LIFE magazine - I have not been
able to find it yet). I am searching for any information on Otto KANTUREK
or any survivors of his immediate family. He was married in Edmond (does
anyone know where that is?) and may have had children.

Thanks.
Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Re: Yiddish in Czech lands #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the comments about the "Prager Deitsch" - combination of
German, Yiddish and Hebrew spoken by Prague Jews before the War. I have
been collecting words, phrases and expression, for years. Each time I
speak with my Czech cousins, who live in Venezuela, they invariably say
something in this Prager Deitsch and I simply add it to the long list...

My mother who was born in Prague spoke Hoch Deutsch and spoke German with
my father (and me and my sister) who was born in Lucenec, Slovakia. They
of course spoke Czech, my father spoke Slovak and both of them spoke
several other languages. Yiddish was spoken in Eastern Slovakia and
Hebrew as well. My grandfather's private Hebrew teacher in Prague came
from Munkacz.
Here are some phrases in what my cousins call Prager Deitsch:

Er ist ein umtam odor ein leimech (he is a schlemazel)
Mieser baldover - not honorable, bad humor unpleasant person
petite macher - clever
schmonces (small,unimportant things)
machloike (differences)
Endlach - finally
chochmes = chochmes..(smarts)
menoovl - shrewd
mit eitziss versorgt - we have enough advice
die freit - die Freude (the joy)
haste kan lat machte kan lat (if you don't have a sorrow or a worry -
don't make one)
halevei eine stund danach - if it were only an hour afterwards (after the
dreaded event)

Also, the book Motche und Rezi was published in Czech (the names of the
characters are in Yiddish/Hebrew or Prager Deitsch). These are wonderful
humorous stories of Jews living in villages in the Czech lands. As far as
I know this book has not been translated into other languages.

Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Yiddish in Czech lands #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the comments about the "Prager Deitsch" - combination of
German, Yiddish and Hebrew spoken by Prague Jews before the War. I have
been collecting words, phrases and expression, for years. Each time I
speak with my Czech cousins, who live in Venezuela, they invariably say
something in this Prager Deitsch and I simply add it to the long list...

My mother who was born in Prague spoke Hoch Deutsch and spoke German with
my father (and me and my sister) who was born in Lucenec, Slovakia. They
of course spoke Czech, my father spoke Slovak and both of them spoke
several other languages. Yiddish was spoken in Eastern Slovakia and
Hebrew as well. My grandfather's private Hebrew teacher in Prague came
from Munkacz.
Here are some phrases in what my cousins call Prager Deitsch:

Er ist ein umtam odor ein leimech (he is a schlemazel)
Mieser baldover - not honorable, bad humor unpleasant person
petite macher - clever
schmonces (small,unimportant things)
machloike (differences)
Endlach - finally
chochmes = chochmes..(smarts)
menoovl - shrewd
mit eitziss versorgt - we have enough advice
die freit - die Freude (the joy)
haste kan lat machte kan lat (if you don't have a sorrow or a worry -
don't make one)
halevei eine stund danach - if it were only an hour afterwards (after the
dreaded event)

Also, the book Motche und Rezi was published in Czech (the names of the
characters are in Yiddish/Hebrew or Prager Deitsch). These are wonderful
humorous stories of Jews living in villages in the Czech lands. As far as
I know this book has not been translated into other languages.

Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

I hadn't overlooked that point - also the use of "kartoffel" for potatoes,
which is not Viennese useage. So,as Celia points out, the
song probably isn't "Viennese " or even of Austrian origin
(although my Parents were). And it certainly isn't a "Jewish" song

Shabbat shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Celia Male [mailto:celiamale@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 9:13 PM
To: austriaczech@...
Cc: robert fraser
Subject: Re: [austriaczech] Viennese Hiking Song

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

I hadn't overlooked that point - also the use of "kartoffel" for potatoes,
which is not Viennese useage. So,as Celia points out, the
song probably isn't "Viennese " or even of Austrian origin
(although my Parents were). And it certainly isn't a "Jewish" song

Shabbat shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Celia Male [mailto:celiamale@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 9:13 PM
To: austriaczech@...
Cc: robert fraser
Subject: Re: [austriaczech] Viennese Hiking Song

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]