Date   

Lithuania SIG #Lithuania re: "Born in Vilna" but cannot find any records! #lithuania

MandJMeyers <mandjmeyers@...>
 

Peter Hills asks why he can't find records for family who always listed
themselves as being Vilna.

I had exactly the same situation and found that my answer was ' because
they lied about where they were born'.

Well, not exactly.........they sort of used the big town nearby (Vilna)
instead of the little shtetlach my grandmother's LANDSMAN family really
came from.

Absolutely everything in US census records, naturalization records and
family lore said they were >from Vilna and even lived near the great shul.
One ellis island entry showed my great-grandfather living on Yiddishe
Gasse, which confirmed the story of living near the great shul.

However, they were NOT born there, as I've just recently found.
An 1894 Vilna birth record for an previously unknown sibling of my
grandmother (I assume he died young) said the family came >from Paberze,
so that is where I expect to find their 1880s births recorded, if the
records still exist.

I also found my great-grandmother as a child in Gelvonai, right next to
Bagaslaviskis which appears to be the ur-shtetl for the LANDSMAN diaspora
through Vilnius district.

Hang in there and keep looking around the district, you never know where
they may REALLY have been born.

Marty Meyers
Montclair, NJ


Re: "Born in Vilna" but cannot find any records! #lithuania

MandJMeyers <mandjmeyers@...>
 

Peter Hills asks why he can't find records for family who always listed
themselves as being Vilna.

I had exactly the same situation and found that my answer was ' because
they lied about where they were born'.

Well, not exactly.........they sort of used the big town nearby (Vilna)
instead of the little shtetlach my grandmother's LANDSMAN family really
came from.

Absolutely everything in US census records, naturalization records and
family lore said they were >from Vilna and even lived near the great shul.
One ellis island entry showed my great-grandfather living on Yiddishe
Gasse, which confirmed the story of living near the great shul.

However, they were NOT born there, as I've just recently found.
An 1894 Vilna birth record for an previously unknown sibling of my
grandmother (I assume he died young) said the family came >from Paberze,
so that is where I expect to find their 1880s births recorded, if the
records still exist.

I also found my great-grandmother as a child in Gelvonai, right next to
Bagaslaviskis which appears to be the ur-shtetl for the LANDSMAN diaspora
through Vilnius district.

Hang in there and keep looking around the district, you never know where
they may REALLY have been born.

Marty Meyers
Montclair, NJ


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania RE: Lists of Lithuanian Holocaust Victims #lithuania

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Friends,

Another important source of victims names is the Russian Extraordinary
Commission Reports. Immediately after the cessation of hostilities of
WW II. the Russian government sent in teams of military. court and others
to each community that they had retaken. Their purpose was to write down
immediately what had taken place in these communities.

Originally, this report was only at Yad Vashem but there are now copies
at the U S Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and they will send a
copy for your community. Of course, they are in Cyrillic but are not
difficult to read.

I did not check if there is information on Joel's communities but an
inquiry will bring this answer.

Joe Fibel


Re: Lists of Lithuanian Holocaust Victims #lithuania

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Friends,

Another important source of victims names is the Russian Extraordinary
Commission Reports. Immediately after the cessation of hostilities of
WW II. the Russian government sent in teams of military. court and others
to each community that they had retaken. Their purpose was to write down
immediately what had taken place in these communities.

Originally, this report was only at Yad Vashem but there are now copies
at the U S Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and they will send a
copy for your community. Of course, they are in Cyrillic but are not
difficult to read.

I did not check if there is information on Joel's communities but an
inquiry will bring this answer.

Joe Fibel


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Holocaust Victims ! #lithuania

ralph <salinger@...>
 

During my researches of Vilkaviskis I found records made by the Russians
in 1944 of Jewish Holocaust Victims - also on the net [and in Russian ]
there are KGB files of interrogations in 1944 and 1945 of these crimes.

Ralph Salinger
Kfar Ruppin
salinger@...


Holocaust Victims ! #lithuania

ralph <salinger@...>
 

During my researches of Vilkaviskis I found records made by the Russians
in 1944 of Jewish Holocaust Victims - also on the net [and in Russian ]
there are KGB files of interrogations in 1944 and 1945 of these crimes.

Ralph Salinger
Kfar Ruppin
salinger@...


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Lists of Lithuanian Holocaust Victims #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

Joel Nathan asked for specific records. I took that to mean accurate,
complete lists. Others may take that as any type of list regardless
of how inaccurate or incomplete it may be. Jeff Marx, as well as
others have suggested lists at Yad Vashem and elsewhere and they are all
correct.

It depends on what Joel Nathan meant by specific records. Only he can
answer that question but now he knows what his options are.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia

<From: Jeff Marx rabjmarx@...
Joel Nathan asked if there were specific records regarding those
Jews >from the Panevesyz/Birzai/Vabalninkas area who perished in the
Holocaust.

I believe that Howard Margol's answer is correct (that the Nazis, and
their Lithuanian helpers, did not bother to record names when killing
the Jews, with the exception of Jews who were transported to the various
concentration camps) insofar as Nazi or Lithuanian records are
concerned. However, there are specific records compiled by survivors
after the war, (such as the Yad Vashem database, Yizkor books,
histories, town monuments and memorials) which do contain lists of
those murdered.>


Lists of Lithuanian Holocaust Victims #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

Joel Nathan asked for specific records. I took that to mean accurate,
complete lists. Others may take that as any type of list regardless
of how inaccurate or incomplete it may be. Jeff Marx, as well as
others have suggested lists at Yad Vashem and elsewhere and they are all
correct.

It depends on what Joel Nathan meant by specific records. Only he can
answer that question but now he knows what his options are.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia

<From: Jeff Marx rabjmarx@...
Joel Nathan asked if there were specific records regarding those
Jews >from the Panevesyz/Birzai/Vabalninkas area who perished in the
Holocaust.

I believe that Howard Margol's answer is correct (that the Nazis, and
their Lithuanian helpers, did not bother to record names when killing
the Jews, with the exception of Jews who were transported to the various
concentration camps) insofar as Nazi or Lithuanian records are
concerned. However, there are specific records compiled by survivors
after the war, (such as the Yad Vashem database, Yizkor books,
histories, town monuments and memorials) which do contain lists of
those murdered.>


Yad Vashem Submitter Located #poland

ronen kusne <ronenk4@...>
 

Dear All,

A huge THANK YOU to all who emailed me within minutes of my last
post regarding locating a Lodz Survivor that was a Yad Vashem
Submitter.

I received many offers >from researchers in Israel. Within an hour,
one of the researchers found that the submitter had passed away
about 5 years ago. I called the Haifa cemetery and was able to get
a phone number to the son of the submitter.

Soon after I was able to make contact and reunite our families!

I THANK YOU ALL for reaching out to help! This was a very meaningful
experience. And THANK YOU to the staff who work behind the scenes for
JRI-Poland Digest.

Ronen Kusne
ronenk4@...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Mazel Tov to Ronen and his new-found family.
Those of us who make up JRI-Poland -- volunteers all -- are
glad that we were able to be part of this connection.


JRI Poland #Poland Yad Vashem Submitter Located #poland

ronen kusne <ronenk4@...>
 

Dear All,

A huge THANK YOU to all who emailed me within minutes of my last
post regarding locating a Lodz Survivor that was a Yad Vashem
Submitter.

I received many offers >from researchers in Israel. Within an hour,
one of the researchers found that the submitter had passed away
about 5 years ago. I called the Haifa cemetery and was able to get
a phone number to the son of the submitter.

Soon after I was able to make contact and reunite our families!

I THANK YOU ALL for reaching out to help! This was a very meaningful
experience. And THANK YOU to the staff who work behind the scenes for
JRI-Poland Digest.

Ronen Kusne
ronenk4@...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Mazel Tov to Ronen and his new-found family.
Those of us who make up JRI-Poland -- volunteers all -- are
glad that we were able to be part of this connection.


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Yad Vashem Submitter Located #poland #lodz

ronen kusne <ronenk4@...>
 

Dear All,

A huge THANK YOU to all who emailed me within minutes of my last post
regarding locating a Lodz Survivor that was a Yad Vashem Submitter.
I received many offers >from researchers in Israel.

Within an hour, one of the researchers found that the submitter had
passed away about 5 years ago. I called the Haifa cemetery and was
able to get a phone number to the son of the submitter.

Soon after I was able to make contact and reunite our families!

I THANK YOU ALL for reaching out to help! This was a very meaningful
experience. And THANK YOU to the staff who work behind the scenes for
Lodz Area Research Group.

Ronen Kusne
ronenk4@...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: All the staff who work behind the scenes for the
Lodz Area Research Group are volunteers -- and we're thrilled that
this group and this mailing list have helped make this family
connection.


Yad Vashem Submitter Located #lodz #poland

ronen kusne <ronenk4@...>
 

Dear All,

A huge THANK YOU to all who emailed me within minutes of my last post
regarding locating a Lodz Survivor that was a Yad Vashem Submitter.
I received many offers >from researchers in Israel.

Within an hour, one of the researchers found that the submitter had
passed away about 5 years ago. I called the Haifa cemetery and was
able to get a phone number to the son of the submitter.

Soon after I was able to make contact and reunite our families!

I THANK YOU ALL for reaching out to help! This was a very meaningful
experience. And THANK YOU to the staff who work behind the scenes for
Lodz Area Research Group.

Ronen Kusne
ronenk4@...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: All the staff who work behind the scenes for the
Lodz Area Research Group are volunteers -- and we're thrilled that
this group and this mailing list have helped make this family
connection.


Re: family trees from existing databases #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The difficulty with making family trees >from JRI-PL records is that there is no
sure way of knowing whether the people are actually related in the way that you
think. Is the birth record 20 years later the child of the people in the marriage
record, or was there cousin of the same name born somewhat later with no marriage
record in that town who actually had the baby? Since our ancestors moved around a
lot more than we think, it is certainly possible that the person we think is the
parent really isn't. Maybe, maybe not.

It is hard enough to track one family's records - and I have usually had odd
surnames and some rather uncommon given names to work with. I have found 6 birth
records in one very small town to three different wives (apparently) of one man -
and luckily the last marriage was recorded. The probable descendents of this man
do not know enough to connect to him, so I can't tell if the Isaac that was born is
the grandfather of the oldest known ancestor of the cousins. Since names are
reused in families, I can say 'most likely' but not necessarily. I recently found
another brother of this man, which leads to another source of possible ancestors.

There are sites, like Geni.com, which allow you to merge your tree with a cousin's
tree. But that is assuming that you know your trees meet at some person. Doing
this without any knowledge of the families would be very dangerous - and some
people would assume that the tree that you make is truth, when it isn't.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: family trees from existing databases #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>
 

The difficulty with making family trees >from JRI-PL records is that there is no
sure way of knowing whether the people are actually related in the way that you
think. Is the birth record 20 years later the child of the people in the marriage
record, or was there cousin of the same name born somewhat later with no marriage
record in that town who actually had the baby? Since our ancestors moved around a
lot more than we think, it is certainly possible that the person we think is the
parent really isn't. Maybe, maybe not.

It is hard enough to track one family's records - and I have usually had odd
surnames and some rather uncommon given names to work with. I have found 6 birth
records in one very small town to three different wives (apparently) of one man -
and luckily the last marriage was recorded. The probable descendents of this man
do not know enough to connect to him, so I can't tell if the Isaac that was born is
the grandfather of the oldest known ancestor of the cousins. Since names are
reused in families, I can say 'most likely' but not necessarily. I recently found
another brother of this man, which leads to another source of possible ancestors.

There are sites, like Geni.com, which allow you to merge your tree with a cousin's
tree. But that is assuming that you know your trees meet at some person. Doing
this without any knowledge of the families would be very dangerous - and some
people would assume that the tree that you make is truth, when it isn't.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


View Mate VM13382 Photo Id #general

Marilynn & Dick
 

I have posted a photo that was taken of a Cousin in Palestine so I belive it is
pre 1947. The only cousin that lives in Israel (Palestine) pre 1947 was Ester
Yankelewitz. Does any one know her or the child, or the location in Israel.
Yankelewitz is her birth name her married name is unknown.

www.jewishgen.org/viewmate

Thanks Dick Wenig
birdmom37@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct URL to the viewmate image is
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=13382


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen View Mate VM13382 Photo Id #general

Marilynn & Dick
 

I have posted a photo that was taken of a Cousin in Palestine so I belive it is
pre 1947. The only cousin that lives in Israel (Palestine) pre 1947 was Ester
Yankelewitz. Does any one know her or the child, or the location in Israel.
Yankelewitz is her birth name her married name is unknown.

www.jewishgen.org/viewmate

Thanks Dick Wenig
birdmom37@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct URL to the viewmate image is
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=13382


1941-1942 Lwow Jewish Registration Cards Follow-Up #galicia

Mark Jacobson
 

Hi fellow researchers,

This is a follow-up to my informational post made July 13th to
all researching Lwow/Lviv/Lemberg and the surrounding area. This
is regarding 13 LDS films of 1941-1942 Jewish Registration Cards
from the city of Lwow/Lviv/Lemberg (currently Lviv Ukraine,
formerly Lwow Poland and Lemberg Austrian Galicia) I found
through the Family Search (LDS) Library online catalogue
<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp>

I have finally examined one film of these cards and will report
my findings. The film contains images of small printed cards,
both sides were filmed but most reverses are blank, others have
printing on them that tells me they were re-using old paper since
some have stamped years >from the 1930s or they are other types of
cards cut in half. The obverse of each card is identical; at the
top is printed Judische Gemeinde der Stadt Lemberg
Evidenz-Abteilung. A rough online translation says it means
Jewish Community of the city of Lemberg Evidence-Division.

Below that heading are 6 numbered columns; surname, given name,
birth date, address with street and number, occupation, and
comments. Most cards were filled out very briefly, most just with
name, year or date of birth and address, sometimes occupation.
All I saw were living at addresses within the city of Lwow, not
other towns or cities.

The cards apparently were listing all Jews in the city; I saw
elderly people as well as very young children, some born in 1940
or 1941. No places of birth are listed. The cards are not dated
and are not signed by anyone but the film header card >from the
Lviv Archive says they are >from 1941-1942. The cards are in rough
alphabetical order arranged by first letter of last name, some
are alphabetical after that while others are out of order.

Best of luck on your searches!

Mark Jacobson
Secretary, JGSPBCI
Boca Raton, FL

KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia;
GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia


Polish translation from viewmate #general

arroyolynn@...
 

Dear Fellow Genners,

I have just posted a document on Viewmate that I got >from a microfilm >from LDS. It
is in Polish and I am asking for help to translate the entire document for me
including the margin area and any signatures at the bottom. Some of those names at
the bottom are in Hebrew or Yiddish.

The document is supposedly a birth record for Hersz Dawid Troianski >from 1826. I am
hoping that it will reveal information >from my father's side of the family, and I
think this might be the son of my g-g-grandfather Chune Efraim which would make him
the brother of my great-grandfather, Chaim Mortka Troyansky who was born in 1820.

I have had no luck whatsoever in finding Chaim, or the family in Talnoye and/or
Romanivka (near Uman), Ukraine, although the Ellis Island passenger manifest
records his entry into the US. and the 1920 census shows him and his wife living in
Manhattan. Of note is that Chaim died in 1923 at the age of 103 years.

One reason I think this man, Hersz Dawid Troianski may be related is that my
father, David Troyansky, might have been named for him. Additionally, my mother
always told me that my Yiddish middle name, Tzvia, was derived >from an uncle named
Hersh.

I found Chaim's tombstone in Mt. Zion Cemetery in Queens, NY where it says his
father was Chune Efraim, and his death certificate lists his father as Chaunan
(Chune) Troyansky and his mother as Goldie Cohen. I cannot find this family
anywhere in Ukraine for any year.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give.

The direct link to the image is
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=13387

Sincerely,
Lynn Troyansky Arroyo
Largo, FL

Researching: TROYANSKY (and variant spellings) YURICK (and variant spellings) in
Talnoye, Romanivka, Uman Ukraine, KOTKOFSKY (and variant spellings) RAZUMNA/RAZUMNY
in Krivoi Ozero and Odessa, Russia, SCHWARTZ in Kalnybiloder, Ukraine, LEDERMAN in
Trostanyets, Ukraine.


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia 1941-1942 Lwow Jewish Registration Cards Follow-Up #galicia

Mark Jacobson
 

Hi fellow researchers,

This is a follow-up to my informational post made July 13th to
all researching Lwow/Lviv/Lemberg and the surrounding area. This
is regarding 13 LDS films of 1941-1942 Jewish Registration Cards
from the city of Lwow/Lviv/Lemberg (currently Lviv Ukraine,
formerly Lwow Poland and Lemberg Austrian Galicia) I found
through the Family Search (LDS) Library online catalogue
<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp>

I have finally examined one film of these cards and will report
my findings. The film contains images of small printed cards,
both sides were filmed but most reverses are blank, others have
printing on them that tells me they were re-using old paper since
some have stamped years >from the 1930s or they are other types of
cards cut in half. The obverse of each card is identical; at the
top is printed Judische Gemeinde der Stadt Lemberg
Evidenz-Abteilung. A rough online translation says it means
Jewish Community of the city of Lemberg Evidence-Division.

Below that heading are 6 numbered columns; surname, given name,
birth date, address with street and number, occupation, and
comments. Most cards were filled out very briefly, most just with
name, year or date of birth and address, sometimes occupation.
All I saw were living at addresses within the city of Lwow, not
other towns or cities.

The cards apparently were listing all Jews in the city; I saw
elderly people as well as very young children, some born in 1940
or 1941. No places of birth are listed. The cards are not dated
and are not signed by anyone but the film header card >from the
Lviv Archive says they are >from 1941-1942. The cards are in rough
alphabetical order arranged by first letter of last name, some
are alphabetical after that while others are out of order.

Best of luck on your searches!

Mark Jacobson
Secretary, JGSPBCI
Boca Raton, FL

KAMERMAN/KAMMERMANN - Drohobycz, Galicia;
KOPPEL - Stebnik/Drohobycz, Galicia;
JACOBI - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
ROTHLEIN - Stratyn/Rohatyn, Galicia;
TUCHFELD - Rzeszow/Stryj/Lvov, Galicia;
GOLDSTEIN - Ranizow, Galicia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Polish translation from viewmate #general

arroyolynn@...
 

Dear Fellow Genners,

I have just posted a document on Viewmate that I got >from a microfilm >from LDS. It
is in Polish and I am asking for help to translate the entire document for me
including the margin area and any signatures at the bottom. Some of those names at
the bottom are in Hebrew or Yiddish.

The document is supposedly a birth record for Hersz Dawid Troianski >from 1826. I am
hoping that it will reveal information >from my father's side of the family, and I
think this might be the son of my g-g-grandfather Chune Efraim which would make him
the brother of my great-grandfather, Chaim Mortka Troyansky who was born in 1820.

I have had no luck whatsoever in finding Chaim, or the family in Talnoye and/or
Romanivka (near Uman), Ukraine, although the Ellis Island passenger manifest
records his entry into the US. and the 1920 census shows him and his wife living in
Manhattan. Of note is that Chaim died in 1923 at the age of 103 years.

One reason I think this man, Hersz Dawid Troianski may be related is that my
father, David Troyansky, might have been named for him. Additionally, my mother
always told me that my Yiddish middle name, Tzvia, was derived >from an uncle named
Hersh.

I found Chaim's tombstone in Mt. Zion Cemetery in Queens, NY where it says his
father was Chune Efraim, and his death certificate lists his father as Chaunan
(Chune) Troyansky and his mother as Goldie Cohen. I cannot find this family
anywhere in Ukraine for any year.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give.

The direct link to the image is
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=13387

Sincerely,
Lynn Troyansky Arroyo
Largo, FL

Researching: TROYANSKY (and variant spellings) YURICK (and variant spellings) in
Talnoye, Romanivka, Uman Ukraine, KOTKOFSKY (and variant spellings) RAZUMNA/RAZUMNY
in Krivoi Ozero and Odessa, Russia, SCHWARTZ in Kalnybiloder, Ukraine, LEDERMAN in
Trostanyets, Ukraine.