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Emigrating twice to USA? #general

Alaine Simpson <bumberbidus@...>
 

Recently I have discovered a family member, my grandfather's brother, who
emigrated alone to the US in 1906, and again in 1912 with his wife and
children. Both cases are documented, and his grandson confirms that this
man did indeed go back to Ukraine, and may even have emigrated a third time.

The reason given was that he simply couldn't find a synagogue which was
strict enough for him. I know that people who emigrated first saved up and
brought over their families, sometimes years later. But does anyone else
have an instance of multiple emigration, and would the reason given be a
valid one?

Alaine Simpson
Hampshire
England
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Emigrating twice to USA? #general

Alaine Simpson <bumberbidus@...>
 

Recently I have discovered a family member, my grandfather's brother, who
emigrated alone to the US in 1906, and again in 1912 with his wife and
children. Both cases are documented, and his grandson confirms that this
man did indeed go back to Ukraine, and may even have emigrated a third time.

The reason given was that he simply couldn't find a synagogue which was
strict enough for him. I know that people who emigrated first saved up and
brought over their families, sometimes years later. But does anyone else
have an instance of multiple emigration, and would the reason given be a
valid one?

Alaine Simpson
Hampshire
England
The Forward Article on DNA Testing #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Forward in its January 18 issue has an article on "Newer DNATests
Uncover Hidden Jewish Bloodlines. See:
http://forward.com/articles/134758/

I have no affiliation with either The Forward nor 23andMe

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA

SEARCHING:
REICH, WALD, ZUPNIK, Presov, Mestiszko, Szivdnik; Salgo, Sebes Kellemes,
Slovakia (formerly Hungary)
MEISELS, SEGALLA/SIGALL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, Ukraine
KLAJNMAN, SZLANG-- Sochaczew, Chorzele, and Zakroczym Poland
FREJER, IMJAK, WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK,-Stawiski, Poland
SZAPIRA, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, PERLA, ASZ, WAPNIARZ -Lomza ,Poland
GUTFARB -- Zambrow, Poland ASZ, Nasielsk, Poland ELION, Suwalki Lithuania
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Forward Article on DNA Testing #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Forward in its January 18 issue has an article on "Newer DNATests
Uncover Hidden Jewish Bloodlines. See:
http://forward.com/articles/134758/

I have no affiliation with either The Forward nor 23andMe

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA

SEARCHING:
REICH, WALD, ZUPNIK, Presov, Mestiszko, Szivdnik; Salgo, Sebes Kellemes,
Slovakia (formerly Hungary)
MEISELS, SEGALLA/SIGALL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, Ukraine
KLAJNMAN, SZLANG-- Sochaczew, Chorzele, and Zakroczym Poland
FREJER, IMJAK, WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK,-Stawiski, Poland
SZAPIRA, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, PERLA, ASZ, WAPNIARZ -Lomza ,Poland
GUTFARB -- Zambrow, Poland ASZ, Nasielsk, Poland ELION, Suwalki Lithuania
place of registration as place of birth #general

Herbert Lazerow
 

It is with hesitation that I disagree with Howard Margol, who knows much
more about Lithuanian practice than I do. But his answer, that a person
listed in an 1887 census as registered in Vizdy was probably born there,
makes assumptions counter to my understanding of the registration system.
Here is how registration was supposed to work.

Probably around 1800, a person was registered to a class (merchant, townsperson,
peasant, noble, soldier) and to a place.

A person's children had the same registration as their father. When she
married, a woman took the registration of her husband.

Registration could be changed, but that took money (unless you served a full
term in the military), which was in short supply in the Jewish community.

So what the place of registration tells you is where the person's
paternal male ancestor lived around 1800. If the person was 90 in 1887,
I agree that it was likely that he was born in Vizdy. If the person was 40
in 1887, it does not tell that he was born in Vizdy (though Vizdy and the place
he was residing in 1887 would be my two leading candidates).

Bert
Herbert Lazerow
San Diego CA 92110-2492 U.S.A.
lazer@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen place of registration as place of birth #general

Herbert Lazerow
 

It is with hesitation that I disagree with Howard Margol, who knows much
more about Lithuanian practice than I do. But his answer, that a person
listed in an 1887 census as registered in Vizdy was probably born there,
makes assumptions counter to my understanding of the registration system.
Here is how registration was supposed to work.

Probably around 1800, a person was registered to a class (merchant, townsperson,
peasant, noble, soldier) and to a place.

A person's children had the same registration as their father. When she
married, a woman took the registration of her husband.

Registration could be changed, but that took money (unless you served a full
term in the military), which was in short supply in the Jewish community.

So what the place of registration tells you is where the person's
paternal male ancestor lived around 1800. If the person was 90 in 1887,
I agree that it was likely that he was born in Vizdy. If the person was 40
in 1887, it does not tell that he was born in Vizdy (though Vizdy and the place
he was residing in 1887 would be my two leading candidates).

Bert
Herbert Lazerow
San Diego CA 92110-2492 U.S.A.
lazer@...
Searchable 1943 Hungarian Directory #hungary

viviankahn@...
 

Logan Kleinwaks has added the 1943 Hungary Telephone Directory
and the Business Directory to the collection of searchable
directories on his fabulous Genealogy Indexer website
< http://genealogyindexer.org/directories >.

This means means the directory can be searched >from within
genealogyindexer.org, and search results link to the appropriate
pdf and page on archive.org.
Because we have not yet identified the person / organization
that uploaded the scans to the Internet Archive, the
images themselves are not on the Genealogy Indexer website.
If anyone has this information, please contact Logan
and he will try to get permission to host the images,
which would allow him to highlight matching text directly
on the images and also load only the single matching page,
rather than the entire multi-page pdf. This would, of
course, be a big help especially for anyone with slow
Internet connections.

The description on archive.org refers to an organization
called WJLF, which could be the John Wesley Theological College
in Budapest < http://www.wesley.hu/ >.

If you can help to connect Logan with someone at this institution
who might be able to give him the permission he needs to upload
images, please contact me or Logan off-list.

In addition to the 1943 Directory Other directories of possible
interest to H-SIGrs that are available for searching at
Genealogy Indexer in addition to the 1943 Directory, include:

1939 Upper Hungary and Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory
[partial, to be continued] {d167} A visszacsatolt Felvidek es
Rutenfold cimtara
1938 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d131}
1937 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d138}
1930 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d136}
1925 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d135}
1924/1925 Romania Business and Organizational Directory, Vol. II
(excl. Bucharest) {d42}

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
Hungarian SIG Coordinator
Hungary SIG #Hungary Searchable 1943 Hungarian Directory #hungary

viviankahn@...
 

Logan Kleinwaks has added the 1943 Hungary Telephone Directory
and the Business Directory to the collection of searchable
directories on his fabulous Genealogy Indexer website
< http://genealogyindexer.org/directories >.

This means means the directory can be searched >from within
genealogyindexer.org, and search results link to the appropriate
pdf and page on archive.org.
Because we have not yet identified the person / organization
that uploaded the scans to the Internet Archive, the
images themselves are not on the Genealogy Indexer website.
If anyone has this information, please contact Logan
and he will try to get permission to host the images,
which would allow him to highlight matching text directly
on the images and also load only the single matching page,
rather than the entire multi-page pdf. This would, of
course, be a big help especially for anyone with slow
Internet connections.

The description on archive.org refers to an organization
called WJLF, which could be the John Wesley Theological College
in Budapest < http://www.wesley.hu/ >.

If you can help to connect Logan with someone at this institution
who might be able to give him the permission he needs to upload
images, please contact me or Logan off-list.

In addition to the 1943 Directory Other directories of possible
interest to H-SIGrs that are available for searching at
Genealogy Indexer in addition to the 1943 Directory, include:

1939 Upper Hungary and Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory
[partial, to be continued] {d167} A visszacsatolt Felvidek es
Rutenfold cimtara
1938 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d131}
1937 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d138}
1930 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d136}
1925 Carpathian Ruthenia Business Directory {d135}
1924/1925 Romania Business and Organizational Directory, Vol. II
(excl. Bucharest) {d42}

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
Hungarian SIG Coordinator
Question about denial of US petition for naturalization #general

Janette <janettes@...>
 

I received in today's mail >from NARA, 3 pages dealing with an
application (there is no actual declaration of intent of application for
naturalization such as I have seen in other files) >from 1904. It is for
a man who arrived in the US in 1892 and who had lived in Brooklyn NY
(Kings County) for the entire time. I was hoping that the information I
received would tell me why he was denied naturalization. Is anyone
familiar with cases of denial on naturalization petitions?

The man's name was Sam MELIN (his birth name likely sounded like
MILYONTZIK) and he was originally >from that innocuously termed "Russia"
and born about 1875. His wife was Sarah nee BRODSKY and they lived on
Marcy Ave in Brooklyn. Sam was a butcher. Julius LAVENTHALL also of
Marcy Ave was his witness.

Any insight into this would be most welcome.

Janette Silverman
Phoenix, AZ
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Question about denial of US petition for naturalization #general

Janette <janettes@...>
 

I received in today's mail >from NARA, 3 pages dealing with an
application (there is no actual declaration of intent of application for
naturalization such as I have seen in other files) >from 1904. It is for
a man who arrived in the US in 1892 and who had lived in Brooklyn NY
(Kings County) for the entire time. I was hoping that the information I
received would tell me why he was denied naturalization. Is anyone
familiar with cases of denial on naturalization petitions?

The man's name was Sam MELIN (his birth name likely sounded like
MILYONTZIK) and he was originally >from that innocuously termed "Russia"
and born about 1875. His wife was Sarah nee BRODSKY and they lived on
Marcy Ave in Brooklyn. Sam was a butcher. Julius LAVENTHALL also of
Marcy Ave was his witness.

Any insight into this would be most welcome.

Janette Silverman
Phoenix, AZ
Jewish doctors from Sopron #hungary

joe@...
 

I have uploaded a photo to Viewmate at this address:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17761

I believe it shows a group of my grandfather Tibor SCHEINER's medical
colleagues near Sopron, around 1950. There's also a young girl in the
photo who may or may not still be alive. I have some more photos from
the same era which I can upload if anyone is interested.

Joe SLATER
Melbourne, Australia

Moderator: Please respond off-list if you can help.
Found someone with Varadi Zsidok hungarian version #hungary

Roger Adler
 

Dear Siggers:

I found someone with a Hungarian version of Varadi Zsidok and she was nice =
enough to send me the scanned pages which I requested. Many thanks to every=
one who responded to my request. I am sure I will return the favor to someo=
ne in the near future.

Roger Adler San Antonio,Texas =
WERNER help requested #general

silberman@...
 

I am searching for my GGGrandparents who were Werners.

I have evidence that they may have lived in what is currently Gorlice, Poland
which was in Austria-Hungary when they left Austria in 1888. I also have
some evidence that they may have lived in Vienna at one time.
The parents were:
Moishe Werner also seen as Moses and Morris in census forms. born 1855
Sara or Sarah Werner born 1856

The children were:
Amalia? known as Mollie born 1875 married a Braunfeld
Esther born 1878
Annie born 1880 married a Spira
Rosie born 1881 married a Wagner
Samuel born 1883
Lena born 1885
Gussie born 1889 married a Goldstein
Adolph or Meyer born 1893

All but the last two were born in Austria and the last two were born
in New York.

Any help is appreciated!

Stephen Silberman
silberman@...
Hungary SIG #Hungary Jewish doctors from Sopron #hungary

joe@...
 

I have uploaded a photo to Viewmate at this address:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17761

I believe it shows a group of my grandfather Tibor SCHEINER's medical
colleagues near Sopron, around 1950. There's also a young girl in the
photo who may or may not still be alive. I have some more photos from
the same era which I can upload if anyone is interested.

Joe SLATER
Melbourne, Australia

Moderator: Please respond off-list if you can help.
Hungary SIG #Hungary Found someone with Varadi Zsidok hungarian version #hungary

Roger Adler
 

Dear Siggers:

I found someone with a Hungarian version of Varadi Zsidok and she was nice =
enough to send me the scanned pages which I requested. Many thanks to every=
one who responded to my request. I am sure I will return the favor to someo=
ne in the near future.

Roger Adler San Antonio,Texas =
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WERNER help requested #general

silberman@...
 

I am searching for my GGGrandparents who were Werners.

I have evidence that they may have lived in what is currently Gorlice, Poland
which was in Austria-Hungary when they left Austria in 1888. I also have
some evidence that they may have lived in Vienna at one time.
The parents were:
Moishe Werner also seen as Moses and Morris in census forms. born 1855
Sara or Sarah Werner born 1856

The children were:
Amalia? known as Mollie born 1875 married a Braunfeld
Esther born 1878
Annie born 1880 married a Spira
Rosie born 1881 married a Wagner
Samuel born 1883
Lena born 1885
Gussie born 1889 married a Goldstein
Adolph or Meyer born 1893

All but the last two were born in Austria and the last two were born
in New York.

Any help is appreciated!

Stephen Silberman
silberman@...
Re: I need assistance with a Hungarian Birth records from Munkacs. #hungary

tom
 

dennis.baer@... wrote:
Then I need to find out the significance of the name Miklos in one of
the columns that most likely refers to the mother of the child on the
first page. Does that refer to the doctor or midwife?
the column heading says: "the mother's family and personal name and place of birth". the written portion says: "Grunstein Szure Sz. Miklos". she was born ion the town of szentmiklos. unfortunately, bogardi.com lists 38 towns named szentmiklos throughout greater hungary (st. mike was a popular saint), with only the one in bereg megye not qualified (prefixed) in any way, and munkacs was also in bereg megye, so it's your most likely suspect.

....... tom klein, toronto
Vienna address books for 1858-1942 online #hungary

kolamcg@...
 

Dear All,

for those who had family in Vienna before the war - the Vienna Library has
posted the address books for the city for 1858-1942. The link is here:

http://www.digital.wienbibliothek.at/periodical/structure/5311

I wish you happy hunting!

Andras Koltai
Budapest, Hungary
A Gentle Reminder #hungary

viviankahn@...
 

Dear All,

We're thrilled that the number of Hungarian SIG subscribers continues
to grow. This means, however, that some folks may not be familiar
with the guidelines for posting messages. Every now and then, even
long-time subscribers sometimes need a reminder about JewishGen
netiquette. These rules, which have been formulated over the years,
are intended to make the Hungarian SIG discussion group a more useful
resource for everyone.
You can find a lengthy discussion about JewishGen discussion
procedures at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm >.

In particular, please pay attention to the following points:

- Make sure messages are send as text/plain:
Details at: http://www.jewishgen.org/Infofiles/PlainText.html

- Do NOT use accented fonts or diacritical marks because the JewishGen
server cannot understand such formats. Resulting messages have to be
decoded by a volunteer moderator or they will be illegible to readers.

- Provide a meaningful Subject line because that will make it easier
for people to find your message. The volunteer moderator may revise
your subject line but it's always best for you to do that yourself.

- Do NOT use your Reply key to respond to a Digest message.
Compose a new message, using only as much of the post to which
you are responding to properly identify it.

- Use ALL UPPER CASE letters only for Surnames.

- Sign your message using your full name and your city, state or
country, and your e-mail address. This just makes it easier for
others to identify resources nearby.

There is a lot of valuable information on the JewishGen website.
Use the search engines to enhance your knowledge. Search the website,
search databases or search archived discussion group messages.
When you send a query to the list, please indicate whether you have
consulted these or other resources.

1. Search the JewishGen website.
You can easily search all of the text on JewishGen's web pages.
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/Search.htm

2. Search JewishGen's spectacular Hungary Database, one of
JewishGen's largest resources
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Hungary/
before sending inquiries to other researchers.

3. Special Interest Groups Archives - contain all Hungarian SIG
and other discussion group messages posted since July 1998.
You can search for any word or word combination in a message:
< http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop >.

4. JewishGen Discussion Group Archives - contain all discussion
group messages (non-SIG) posted since September 1993.
You can search for any word or word combination in a message:
< http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop >.

V. To search for family surnames and ancestral towns,
search the JewishGen Family Finder (JGFF):
< http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/jgffweb.htm >,
and the JewishGen Communities Database
< http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/Search.asp >.

Thank you and happy hunting,

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
Hungarian SIG Coordinator
vkahn@...
Re: viewmate translation # 17753 #general

sheila gootman
 

I have received several responses to my request for a translation
of a birth certificate. Apparently is is not a good download so
I will try again. It is not a good copy so I am not sure if
I can improve it. It is also not German, as I thought it might be,
so I did learn something.
Thanks for all your responses.

Sheila Gootman
L.I. NY
203361 - 203380 of 670896