Date   

Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Ring and Gorenstein, New York and Warsaw, early 1900's #warsaw #poland

Elaine Farran
 

Hi=20
I have found another mysterious connection to my Gorenstein family - a poss=
ible relative named Morris Ring.=20

My grandmother, Frymet Chave Muskatblatt, married Chaim Zamler ( who later =
became Chaim Gorenstein - but that's another story) in Poland, before 1907.

Her sister, Shoshe (Sara)Muskatblatt, married Meilich Tsvi (Morris) Gorenst=
ein, her first cousin before 1905. According to the ship's manifest:=20
---On Jan 23, 1905, Schosse Gorenstein (24) entered the US. She is going to=
her husband, Meiloch Gorenstein at 126 E. 3 St.=20
---Shosshe is listed as the sister-in-law of her traveling companion, Morri=
s Ring, who was also traveling with his daughter, Chave or Chane Gorenstein=
(10) Morris Ring is going to his brother-in-law, W. Gorenstein at 126 E. 3=
rd St.=A0=20
There is no information about their places of residence in Europe or about =
the nearest relatives they left behind. That page seems to be missing.

Question:
Could Morris Ring's brother in law be M., instead of W., Gorenstein, which =
would make him Shoshe's brother-in-law or is it possible that Morris Ring w=
as married to another of Shoshe's sisters?

Also - if anyone else is researching the Ring family of NY in the early 190=
0's, please contact me.=20

Thank you

Elaine Farran
Long Beach New York USA
Researching
---MUSZKATBLATT,GORENSTEIN:Warsaw, Lublin Area, NY, Minnesota=20
---ZAMLER/SAMLER: Bobrowniki, Warsaw, Lublin, Pulawy, New York=20
---KOLMEISTER,KINDER: Pulawy, Warsaw areas; Boston, Los Angeles=20
---SEFMAN:Boston,Warsaw, Los Angeles=20
---SZAMPANIER/CHAMPANIER/CHENCHINSKA(& variations):Konskie, Piotrkow,Lodz, =
Buenos Aires=20
---MIODOWICZ,PEYSACHOW, ELBINGER:Konskie and environs;
--- FRISCH/FRYSZ, CHENCHINSKA(& variations),CHAIMOWITZ/CHAIMONOV:=20
Zgierz, Piotrkow, Lodz, New York


Ring and Gorenstein, New York and Warsaw, early 1900's #poland #warsaw

Elaine Farran
 

Hi=20
I have found another mysterious connection to my Gorenstein family - a poss=
ible relative named Morris Ring.=20

My grandmother, Frymet Chave Muskatblatt, married Chaim Zamler ( who later =
became Chaim Gorenstein - but that's another story) in Poland, before 1907.

Her sister, Shoshe (Sara)Muskatblatt, married Meilich Tsvi (Morris) Gorenst=
ein, her first cousin before 1905. According to the ship's manifest:=20
---On Jan 23, 1905, Schosse Gorenstein (24) entered the US. She is going to=
her husband, Meiloch Gorenstein at 126 E. 3 St.=20
---Shosshe is listed as the sister-in-law of her traveling companion, Morri=
s Ring, who was also traveling with his daughter, Chave or Chane Gorenstein=
(10) Morris Ring is going to his brother-in-law, W. Gorenstein at 126 E. 3=
rd St.=A0=20
There is no information about their places of residence in Europe or about =
the nearest relatives they left behind. That page seems to be missing.

Question:
Could Morris Ring's brother in law be M., instead of W., Gorenstein, which =
would make him Shoshe's brother-in-law or is it possible that Morris Ring w=
as married to another of Shoshe's sisters?

Also - if anyone else is researching the Ring family of NY in the early 190=
0's, please contact me.=20

Thank you

Elaine Farran
Long Beach New York USA
Researching
---MUSZKATBLATT,GORENSTEIN:Warsaw, Lublin Area, NY, Minnesota=20
---ZAMLER/SAMLER: Bobrowniki, Warsaw, Lublin, Pulawy, New York=20
---KOLMEISTER,KINDER: Pulawy, Warsaw areas; Boston, Los Angeles=20
---SEFMAN:Boston,Warsaw, Los Angeles=20
---SZAMPANIER/CHAMPANIER/CHENCHINSKA(& variations):Konskie, Piotrkow,Lodz, =
Buenos Aires=20
---MIODOWICZ,PEYSACHOW, ELBINGER:Konskie and environs;
--- FRISCH/FRYSZ, CHENCHINSKA(& variations),CHAIMOWITZ/CHAIMONOV:=20
Zgierz, Piotrkow, Lodz, New York


Sephardic SIG #Sephardim Rabat Genizah documents to be digitized #sephardic

Jeff at SG
 


Rabat Genizah documents to be digitized #sephardic

Jeff at SG
 


Birthplace: Marinovka #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
 

Hi, Genners,
I'm researching a relative whose application for citizenship indicates that
his birthplace in 1900 was Marinovka. His last residence is shown as Odessa
and he left Europe for the US in 1923 >from Libau.

I've never heard of Marinovka and the Jewish Gen Gazetteer gave me quite a
number of hits, mostly in Ukraine, some with an identical name and some with
names that were "close". How do I figure out which one is the correct one?

I'm thinking that the most likely ones are the following:

Maryna, Poland: near Suwalk, 54°06' N 22°44' E

Maryniów, Marynów Poland 51°14' N 23°00' E

Marinovka, Ukraine 46°46' N 30°32' E near Odessa

I chose the first two because other members of the family come >from those
areas, and the third one because it is near Odessa, his last residence
before emigrating.

I'd appreciate hearing >from anyone who has had experience with any place
name that resembles Marinovka. Also, I'd love to hear >from anyone with
ideas on how to figure out which Marinovka is the correct one.

TIA,

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg

Brooklyn, NY

Researching: FRIEDBERG/Grodno, Sokolka, NY, USA; BELKIN/Grodno, USA;
REICHER/Strzyzow, Mosciska, Israel, Canada, USA; TYM/ Strzyzow and
surrounding area; SUMBERG/Vilkaviskis, Minsk, Mikulintze, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Birthplace: Marinovka #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
 

Hi, Genners,
I'm researching a relative whose application for citizenship indicates that
his birthplace in 1900 was Marinovka. His last residence is shown as Odessa
and he left Europe for the US in 1923 >from Libau.

I've never heard of Marinovka and the Jewish Gen Gazetteer gave me quite a
number of hits, mostly in Ukraine, some with an identical name and some with
names that were "close". How do I figure out which one is the correct one?

I'm thinking that the most likely ones are the following:

Maryna, Poland: near Suwalk, 54°06' N 22°44' E

Maryniów, Marynów Poland 51°14' N 23°00' E

Marinovka, Ukraine 46°46' N 30°32' E near Odessa

I chose the first two because other members of the family come >from those
areas, and the third one because it is near Odessa, his last residence
before emigrating.

I'd appreciate hearing >from anyone who has had experience with any place
name that resembles Marinovka. Also, I'd love to hear >from anyone with
ideas on how to figure out which Marinovka is the correct one.

TIA,

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg

Brooklyn, NY

Researching: FRIEDBERG/Grodno, Sokolka, NY, USA; BELKIN/Grodno, USA;
REICHER/Strzyzow, Mosciska, Israel, Canada, USA; TYM/ Strzyzow and
surrounding area; SUMBERG/Vilkaviskis, Minsk, Mikulintze, USA


Re: Are they brothers? #general

Meron Lavie
 

Hi Allan,

from my experience, immigrants of that era didn't care all that much about
their English names. I've had relatives change their English names several
times. In fact, my grandfather, born "Sollie" (we assume it was short for
"Solomon") eventually became Saul. I would give far more credence to the
Hebrew names on the tombstones.

Regards,

Meron LAVIE
Oranit, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan S Karan [mailto:akaran1@...]
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 6:53 AM

Question: Is there enough information to call them brothers?

I just received a copy of Morris PERSKY's (born 1868) death certificate.
His father's name is "Saul" which does not match any info I have on his
supposedly brother's Joseph PERSKY death certificate . Morris PERSKY's is
mother's name is Celia. My great uncle Joseph PERSKY's (born 1864) death
certificate, which is transcribed >from funeral home reporting- not actual
copy, shows "Ceral" for mother and "Sasfra" for father. I think Morris's
mother "Celia" is a good match to my great uncles' mother, but I don't know
how you can get "Sasfra" and "Saul" as a match....


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Are they brothers? #general

Meron Lavie
 

Hi Allan,

from my experience, immigrants of that era didn't care all that much about
their English names. I've had relatives change their English names several
times. In fact, my grandfather, born "Sollie" (we assume it was short for
"Solomon") eventually became Saul. I would give far more credence to the
Hebrew names on the tombstones.

Regards,

Meron LAVIE
Oranit, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan S Karan [mailto:akaran1@...]
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 6:53 AM

Question: Is there enough information to call them brothers?

I just received a copy of Morris PERSKY's (born 1868) death certificate.
His father's name is "Saul" which does not match any info I have on his
supposedly brother's Joseph PERSKY death certificate . Morris PERSKY's is
mother's name is Celia. My great uncle Joseph PERSKY's (born 1864) death
certificate, which is transcribed >from funeral home reporting- not actual
copy, shows "Ceral" for mother and "Sasfra" for father. I think Morris's
mother "Celia" is a good match to my great uncles' mother, but I don't know
how you can get "Sasfra" and "Saul" as a match....


Re: Are they brothers? #general

Avrohom Krauss
 

Question: Is there enough information to call them brothers?
.It would seem rhat they are brothers. As you say, "Celia" is a
good match (ie. a good Anglicized version) for "Ceral" (Yiddish
name Tsir'l). As far as the contention that father's name "Saul"
is not a match for Sasfra, I see no reason why not. If as you say,
the Hebrew names match (both tombstones list father's name as
"Yissachar- that is what matters. Any English name may have been
used in documents to represent the original name. (Both Saul and
Sasfra begin with "S.") Bear in mind that "Sasfra" is highly
suspect as a name. It is probably a corruption of "Socher" a
calique for Yissachar. This explains why Yissachar was rendered
into English using names beginning with the letter "S."

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Are they brothers? #general

Avrohom Krauss
 

Question: Is there enough information to call them brothers?
.It would seem rhat they are brothers. As you say, "Celia" is a
good match (ie. a good Anglicized version) for "Ceral" (Yiddish
name Tsir'l). As far as the contention that father's name "Saul"
is not a match for Sasfra, I see no reason why not. If as you say,
the Hebrew names match (both tombstones list father's name as
"Yissachar- that is what matters. Any English name may have been
used in documents to represent the original name. (Both Saul and
Sasfra begin with "S.") Bear in mind that "Sasfra" is highly
suspect as a name. It is probably a corruption of "Socher" a
calique for Yissachar. This explains why Yissachar was rendered
into English using names beginning with the letter "S."

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel


ViewMate translation request - Russian #general

Olivier Dzik <olivierdzik@...>
 

Dear all,
I've posted vital records in Polish for which I need a direct
translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22987
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22988
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22989
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22990
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22991

Please respond to olivierdzik@... or via the form provided
in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Olivier Dzik

MODERATOR NOTE: #22987 is in Polish; the others are in Russian.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate translation request - Russian #general

Olivier Dzik <olivierdzik@...>
 

Dear all,
I've posted vital records in Polish for which I need a direct
translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22987
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22988
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22989
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22990
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=22991

Please respond to olivierdzik@... or via the form provided
in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Olivier Dzik

MODERATOR NOTE: #22987 is in Polish; the others are in Russian.


Austrian Jewish records at family search and badatelna.cz #austria-czech

esther.bloch@...
 

I would like to thank Randy for indicating these two important links.

A wealth of information!

Esther Bloch

Dundas Ontario, Canada


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Austrian Jewish records at family search and badatelna.cz #austria-czech

esther.bloch@...
 

I would like to thank Randy for indicating these two important links.

A wealth of information!

Esther Bloch

Dundas Ontario, Canada


Re: Czech Registers #austria-czech

ronny@...
 

Hi Everyone

Despite having had paid researchers go through the records of my ancestral
home town, Boskovice, I have been astounded to discover so many new details.
No matter how expert these researchers are, sometimes the handwritten
entries in the registers are truly illegible. However, thanks to information
I did have, regarding dates of birth and house numbers, I was, sadly, able
to determine that several of my g-g-grandfather Salomon Z Aufrichtig's
children died in their first few years of life.

I discovered, with interest, that one of them, Voegele Aufrichtig (Birdie A),
had been almost illegibly entered as Feigele which, of course, is the
Yiddish variation. Other inconsistencies so far include Kolman/Kallman,
Salomon/Salman/Zalman, and Filip/Philipp. For those who haven't already done
so, I recommend downloading one of the many German Gothic letters pages that
show up on search engines. Several of them provide useful handwritten
variations - especially the combination characters like 'ch', 'ph' and
'sch'. Printing and pasting characters together to form your own family
name can prove very helpful.

Be aware, too, that it is not unknown for longer surnames to be truncated.
Given that my family name Aufrichtig has, on one occasion, been shortened to
Aufricht (with a period point), this causes problems - particularly since
Aufricht is a fairly common name in its own right. With so many Czech
register towns to "visit" and the new Family Research IKW pages on line, I
am resisting the temptation to re-check every Aufricht!!

If anyone has similar examples of discrepancies and things to look out
for, please share.

Ronny Roberts, London & Bradenton FL
AUFRICHTIG, AUFRIKHTIG, OFRICHTIG, LOKSCHAN/LOKSHAN (Moravia), HUSSERL
(Moravia), WODAK (Moravia).


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Czech Registers #austria-czech

ronny@...
 

Hi Everyone

Despite having had paid researchers go through the records of my ancestral
home town, Boskovice, I have been astounded to discover so many new details.
No matter how expert these researchers are, sometimes the handwritten
entries in the registers are truly illegible. However, thanks to information
I did have, regarding dates of birth and house numbers, I was, sadly, able
to determine that several of my g-g-grandfather Salomon Z Aufrichtig's
children died in their first few years of life.

I discovered, with interest, that one of them, Voegele Aufrichtig (Birdie A),
had been almost illegibly entered as Feigele which, of course, is the
Yiddish variation. Other inconsistencies so far include Kolman/Kallman,
Salomon/Salman/Zalman, and Filip/Philipp. For those who haven't already done
so, I recommend downloading one of the many German Gothic letters pages that
show up on search engines. Several of them provide useful handwritten
variations - especially the combination characters like 'ch', 'ph' and
'sch'. Printing and pasting characters together to form your own family
name can prove very helpful.

Be aware, too, that it is not unknown for longer surnames to be truncated.
Given that my family name Aufrichtig has, on one occasion, been shortened to
Aufricht (with a period point), this causes problems - particularly since
Aufricht is a fairly common name in its own right. With so many Czech
register towns to "visit" and the new Family Research IKW pages on line, I
am resisting the temptation to re-check every Aufricht!!

If anyone has similar examples of discrepancies and things to look out
for, please share.

Ronny Roberts, London & Bradenton FL
AUFRICHTIG, AUFRIKHTIG, OFRICHTIG, LOKSCHAN/LOKSHAN (Moravia), HUSSERL
(Moravia), WODAK (Moravia).


Language #austria-czech

danielat1@...
 

Thanks to Irene Newhouse for her potent description of how language can be
so powerful politically and socially.
My most unpleasant memories of being a German speaker as a child in Sydney
post war are of my mother being abused in a bus because she spoke to me in
German. A very aggressive Aussie woman yelled at Mum and told her "We speak
English here!". Mum of course said not another German word to me ever in
public again. Another time my stepfather was pulled up by a policeman and
immediately he heard the Hungarian accent the cop was incredibly rude.
These are trivial examples but if you expect the Czechs to write officially
in any other language than their own as we say in Australia, "You are
dreaming".
Daniela Torsh
Sydney, Australia


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Language #austria-czech

danielat1@...
 

Thanks to Irene Newhouse for her potent description of how language can be
so powerful politically and socially.
My most unpleasant memories of being a German speaker as a child in Sydney
post war are of my mother being abused in a bus because she spoke to me in
German. A very aggressive Aussie woman yelled at Mum and told her "We speak
English here!". Mum of course said not another German word to me ever in
public again. Another time my stepfather was pulled up by a policeman and
immediately he heard the Hungarian accent the cop was incredibly rude.
These are trivial examples but if you expect the Czechs to write officially
in any other language than their own as we say in Australia, "You are
dreaming".
Daniela Torsh
Sydney, Australia


Researching Ring and Gorenstein, NY early 1900's #poland

Elaine Farran
 

Hi
I have found another mysterious connection to my Gorenstein family - a
possible relative named Morris Ring.

My grandmother, Frymet Chave Muskatblatt, married Chaim Zamler ( who later
became Chaim Gorenstein - but that's another story) in Poland, before 1907.

Her sister, Shoshe (Sara) Muskatblatt, married Meilich Tsvi (Morris)
Gorenstein, her first cousin, before 1905. According to the ship's
manifest:
---On Jan 23, 1905, Schosse Gorenstein (24) entered the US. She is going
to her husband, Meiloch Gorenstein at 126 E. 3 St.
---Shosshe is listed as the sister-in-law of her traveling companion,
Morris Ring, who was also traveling with his daughter, Chave or Chane
Gorenstein (10) Morris Ring is going to his brother-in-law, W.
Gorenstein at 126 E. 3rd St.
There is no information about their places of residence in Europe or
about the nearest relatives they left behind. That page seems to be
missing.

Question:
Could Morris Ring's brother in law be M., instead of W., Gorenstein,
which would make him Shoshe's brother-in-law or is it possible that
Morris Ring was married to another of Shoshe's sisters?

Also - if anyone else is researching the Ring family of NY in the early
1900's, please contact me.

Thank you

Elaine Farran
Long Beach New York USA
Researching
---MUSZKATBLATT,GORENSTEIN: Warsaw, Lublin Area, NY, Minnesota
---ZAMLER/SAMLER: Bobrowniki, Warsaw, Lublin, Pulawy, New York
---KOLMEISTER,KINDER: Pulawy, Warsaw areas; Boston, Los Angeles
---SEFMAN:Boston,Warsaw, Los Angeles
---SZAMPANIER/CHAMPANIER/CHENCHINSKA(& variations):Konskie, Piotrkow,Lodz,
Buenos Aires
---MIODOWICZ,PEYSACHOW, ELBINGER:Konskie and environs;
--- FRISCH/FRYSZ, CHENCHINSKA(& variations),CHAIMOWITZ/CHAIMONOV:
Zgierz, Piotrkow, Lodz, New York


JRI Poland #Poland Researching Ring and Gorenstein, NY early 1900's #poland

Elaine Farran
 

Hi
I have found another mysterious connection to my Gorenstein family - a
possible relative named Morris Ring.

My grandmother, Frymet Chave Muskatblatt, married Chaim Zamler ( who later
became Chaim Gorenstein - but that's another story) in Poland, before 1907.

Her sister, Shoshe (Sara) Muskatblatt, married Meilich Tsvi (Morris)
Gorenstein, her first cousin, before 1905. According to the ship's
manifest:
---On Jan 23, 1905, Schosse Gorenstein (24) entered the US. She is going
to her husband, Meiloch Gorenstein at 126 E. 3 St.
---Shosshe is listed as the sister-in-law of her traveling companion,
Morris Ring, who was also traveling with his daughter, Chave or Chane
Gorenstein (10) Morris Ring is going to his brother-in-law, W.
Gorenstein at 126 E. 3rd St.
There is no information about their places of residence in Europe or
about the nearest relatives they left behind. That page seems to be
missing.

Question:
Could Morris Ring's brother in law be M., instead of W., Gorenstein,
which would make him Shoshe's brother-in-law or is it possible that
Morris Ring was married to another of Shoshe's sisters?

Also - if anyone else is researching the Ring family of NY in the early
1900's, please contact me.

Thank you

Elaine Farran
Long Beach New York USA
Researching
---MUSZKATBLATT,GORENSTEIN: Warsaw, Lublin Area, NY, Minnesota
---ZAMLER/SAMLER: Bobrowniki, Warsaw, Lublin, Pulawy, New York
---KOLMEISTER,KINDER: Pulawy, Warsaw areas; Boston, Los Angeles
---SEFMAN:Boston,Warsaw, Los Angeles
---SZAMPANIER/CHAMPANIER/CHENCHINSKA(& variations):Konskie, Piotrkow,Lodz,
Buenos Aires
---MIODOWICZ,PEYSACHOW, ELBINGER:Konskie and environs;
--- FRISCH/FRYSZ, CHENCHINSKA(& variations),CHAIMOWITZ/CHAIMONOV:
Zgierz, Piotrkow, Lodz, New York

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