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Re: Places of origin of British Jews
#unitedkingdom
jeremy frankel
David Grant posed the question:
1) You state that early records were not kept "for entries into Hull and Leith, and other places on the British North Sea coast". Is this a fact or have the records just not been released yet? The answer is that the records do not exist. One has to bear in mind the vast, vast majority of immigrants entering the United Kingdom during the 19th century were transiting through en-route to another destination such as Canada, the United States, Australia, South Africa, etc. This being the case there was no need let alone desire for the UK Government to hold on to these records any longer than was necessary. A few years ago I was researching the UK Government immigration sub-committee reports >from about the 1870s. These make for fascinating reading with people like Rothschild and Montefiore asking all kinds of questions of people who actually worked at the ports. These port staff readily admitted that there were lists and these were sent on to London but were routinely destroyed after a while. Back then the government was not interested in names but numbers. It was all a matter of statistics and knowing what the "flow-rate" was so to speak. How many people were coming, where >from and where they were going to. These answers can be seen in the various reports these sub-committees published. David Grant then commented: "However after a certain length of time the powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of time. There were no actual naturalisation forms filled." Me here: I'm not sure this is really correct. Naturalisation was a privilege conferred on people (as is most things in life) so I don't think that after some time it was just willy-nilly handed out. The most important reason people naturalised is so that they could vote and have a voice in the running of the country - just like I did when I became a US citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in what an American-born person can do and what I can do. The only difference is voting. I would like to see evidence >from David showing how his ancestors became citizens without filling out the various forms. One last thing; yes, Ancestry has scanned the naturalisation records for the period 1870-1912 and placed them online. However these are just the "A" records. There is a subsidiary set, the "B" records which provide other details - witnesses attesting to the worth of the applicant. And in the case of my four Koenigsberg relatives (whose documents I acquired over 20 years ago) includes the Metropolitan Police report. I hope this explanation is of some use. Jeremy Frankel -- Jeremy G Frankel ex-London, England now Folsom, CA Searching for: FRANKEL: Plock, Poland; London, England GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland; London, England KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania; London, England; NY, USA LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland; London, England Pinkus, Poland; London, England PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland; London, England; NY, USA
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Places of origin of British Jews
#unitedkingdom
jeremy frankel
David Grant posed the question:
1) You state that early records were not kept "for entries into Hull and Leith, and other places on the British North Sea coast". Is this a fact or have the records just not been released yet? The answer is that the records do not exist. One has to bear in mind the vast, vast majority of immigrants entering the United Kingdom during the 19th century were transiting through en-route to another destination such as Canada, the United States, Australia, South Africa, etc. This being the case there was no need let alone desire for the UK Government to hold on to these records any longer than was necessary. A few years ago I was researching the UK Government immigration sub-committee reports >from about the 1870s. These make for fascinating reading with people like Rothschild and Montefiore asking all kinds of questions of people who actually worked at the ports. These port staff readily admitted that there were lists and these were sent on to London but were routinely destroyed after a while. Back then the government was not interested in names but numbers. It was all a matter of statistics and knowing what the "flow-rate" was so to speak. How many people were coming, where >from and where they were going to. These answers can be seen in the various reports these sub-committees published. David Grant then commented: "However after a certain length of time the powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of time. There were no actual naturalisation forms filled." Me here: I'm not sure this is really correct. Naturalisation was a privilege conferred on people (as is most things in life) so I don't think that after some time it was just willy-nilly handed out. The most important reason people naturalised is so that they could vote and have a voice in the running of the country - just like I did when I became a US citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in what an American-born person can do and what I can do. The only difference is voting. I would like to see evidence >from David showing how his ancestors became citizens without filling out the various forms. One last thing; yes, Ancestry has scanned the naturalisation records for the period 1870-1912 and placed them online. However these are just the "A" records. There is a subsidiary set, the "B" records which provide other details - witnesses attesting to the worth of the applicant. And in the case of my four Koenigsberg relatives (whose documents I acquired over 20 years ago) includes the Metropolitan Police report. I hope this explanation is of some use. Jeremy Frankel -- Jeremy G Frankel ex-London, England now Folsom, CA Searching for: FRANKEL: Plock, Poland; London, England GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland; London, England KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania; London, England; NY, USA LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland; London, England Pinkus, Poland; London, England PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland; London, England; NY, USA
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Re: Places of origin of British Jews
#unitedkingdom
Richard Cooper
David Grant on 10 March stated "after a certain length of time the
powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of time." Well, that's a new one on me. My father's stepfather Zalman GOLDBAND came to England in 1912 aged 20. He spent WWI flitting >from place to place to avoid being called up or deported. For most of WWII he was nervous about the same thing happening, with the added bonus that deportation would have guaranteed his death as a Jew in Nazi-occupied Lithuania. He died in 1972 aged 80 after 60 years in the British Isles during which time he was never offered the peace of mind of becoming a British citizen. Best wishes and happy ancestor-spotting, Richard Cooper (NB: Not related to any COOPERs!) Midhurst, UK MILLET, ENGELBERG, BLUMENKEHL, SUSSWEIN, WACKS & PITERZIL >from Tarnow, Dabrowa Tarnowska and Lezajsk LEZTER, SALENDER, RINENBERG, EISEN & KRAETTER >from Rzeszow and Kolbuszowa YAROSHEVSKY, SHAPOCHNIKOW & GRANITUR >from Odessa and Zlatopol/Novomirgorod LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev ADLER, FINKELSTEIN, PARYLLE, WEINTRAUB & ZILZ >from Tarnopol and Trembowla BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH,GODZINSKIJ & ZIMNOWICZ and >from Warsaw and Radun
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Places of origin of British Jews
#unitedkingdom
Richard Cooper
David Grant on 10 March stated "after a certain length of time the
powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of time." Well, that's a new one on me. My father's stepfather Zalman GOLDBAND came to England in 1912 aged 20. He spent WWI flitting >from place to place to avoid being called up or deported. For most of WWII he was nervous about the same thing happening, with the added bonus that deportation would have guaranteed his death as a Jew in Nazi-occupied Lithuania. He died in 1972 aged 80 after 60 years in the British Isles during which time he was never offered the peace of mind of becoming a British citizen. Best wishes and happy ancestor-spotting, Richard Cooper (NB: Not related to any COOPERs!) Midhurst, UK MILLET, ENGELBERG, BLUMENKEHL, SUSSWEIN, WACKS & PITERZIL >from Tarnow, Dabrowa Tarnowska and Lezajsk LEZTER, SALENDER, RINENBERG, EISEN & KRAETTER >from Rzeszow and Kolbuszowa YAROSHEVSKY, SHAPOCHNIKOW & GRANITUR >from Odessa and Zlatopol/Novomirgorod LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev ADLER, FINKELSTEIN, PARYLLE, WEINTRAUB & ZILZ >from Tarnopol and Trembowla BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH,GODZINSKIJ & ZIMNOWICZ and >from Warsaw and Radun
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Traveling alone in Poland at 15 year old / Zakopane ski resort
#general
Marc <marcrys@...>
Dear all,
Mieczyslaw RYSZFELD (>from Warszaw) is listed as a visitor (guest) of the Polish ski resort of Zakopane in 1929 (link: http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=82259&dirids=1 ). The scarcity of the Ryszfeld family name (only in Warszaw with this spelling) as well as the first name being very unusual among the Warszaw branch lead me to think it may be the same person as Mecislas Ryszfeld, a 21y old student of weaving in 1935 in western France (Mulhouse). The latter is listed in the school archives as being born in 1914. Were they the same persons, Mieczyslaw Ryszfeld would have been 15 or 15 and a half year old... Would such a teenager travel alone on "holiday" to a ski resort 500km away from Warszaw in the early 20th c. ?Would it be a possible way to France through (current) Slovaquia Austria etc... ? Actually, looking at a map, this way leads directly to the above French border city of Mulhouse. But then winter is probably not the best of times. Was it usual procedure at that time for a winter resort's journal to list supposedly unknown visitors as well as their place of residence in the resort? Zakopane seems to have been quite in fashion as a train access dates back to 1899, and 1st ski-jump 1925. Thank you for your ideas. As a side theme, I own the 1935 class photo >from the Mulhouse weaving school, but then all members on the picture able to recognize Mecislas would be above 100yr old today... Marc Ryszfeld Paris, France Searching RYSZFELD. CHAYETTE. DON (Vilno). STOCZYK (Warszaw)
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Traveling alone in Poland at 15 year old / Zakopane ski resort
#general
Marc <marcrys@...>
Dear all,
Mieczyslaw RYSZFELD (>from Warszaw) is listed as a visitor (guest) of the Polish ski resort of Zakopane in 1929 (link: http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=82259&dirids=1 ). The scarcity of the Ryszfeld family name (only in Warszaw with this spelling) as well as the first name being very unusual among the Warszaw branch lead me to think it may be the same person as Mecislas Ryszfeld, a 21y old student of weaving in 1935 in western France (Mulhouse). The latter is listed in the school archives as being born in 1914. Were they the same persons, Mieczyslaw Ryszfeld would have been 15 or 15 and a half year old... Would such a teenager travel alone on "holiday" to a ski resort 500km away from Warszaw in the early 20th c. ?Would it be a possible way to France through (current) Slovaquia Austria etc... ? Actually, looking at a map, this way leads directly to the above French border city of Mulhouse. But then winter is probably not the best of times. Was it usual procedure at that time for a winter resort's journal to list supposedly unknown visitors as well as their place of residence in the resort? Zakopane seems to have been quite in fashion as a train access dates back to 1899, and 1st ski-jump 1925. Thank you for your ideas. As a side theme, I own the 1935 class photo >from the Mulhouse weaving school, but then all members on the picture able to recognize Mecislas would be above 100yr old today... Marc Ryszfeld Paris, France Searching RYSZFELD. CHAYETTE. DON (Vilno). STOCZYK (Warszaw)
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Detroit Orphanage and US Army records
#general
bernerfolk
I'm trying to learn the fate and family of a female immigrant cousin
who left NYC for Detroit, probably between 1910-1925. An elderly cousin recalls hearing she had died and someone trying, unsuccessfully, to place her son with family back in NY. I found a possible son in the Detroit Hebrew Orphan's Home in 1930 and a couple of military records, all of which may or may not be for the family I'm looking for. I've spoken with YIVO where they were kind enough to check their microfilm of records >from the Detroit social services agencies but they didn't find a record for this individual, and Hebrew Union Archive had no records of this type. Does anyone have any suggestions for locating information on the boy in the Detroit Hebrew Orphanage in 1930? The National Jewish Welfare Board, Bureau of War Records, has an Alphabetical Card showing "authenticated" the soldier was wounded in Europe, inquiry date 7/24/45. The source of the information is given as "Mar. 1945 Mo. rep .sub. by S. Saferstein-in mo. rep. source bk." ~ Can anyone translate this bureaucratic shorthand? ~ Are there likely additional records >from this organization which could be helpful in learning this soldier's family ties? NARA provides an Army Serial Number, branch of service, enlistment date, etc. ~ Is it possible to request WWII US Army personnel records? Are they likely to provide family information if the soldier was an orphan? Any suggestions would be appreciated, Sherri Venditti
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Detroit Orphanage and US Army records
#general
bernerfolk
I'm trying to learn the fate and family of a female immigrant cousin
who left NYC for Detroit, probably between 1910-1925. An elderly cousin recalls hearing she had died and someone trying, unsuccessfully, to place her son with family back in NY. I found a possible son in the Detroit Hebrew Orphan's Home in 1930 and a couple of military records, all of which may or may not be for the family I'm looking for. I've spoken with YIVO where they were kind enough to check their microfilm of records >from the Detroit social services agencies but they didn't find a record for this individual, and Hebrew Union Archive had no records of this type. Does anyone have any suggestions for locating information on the boy in the Detroit Hebrew Orphanage in 1930? The National Jewish Welfare Board, Bureau of War Records, has an Alphabetical Card showing "authenticated" the soldier was wounded in Europe, inquiry date 7/24/45. The source of the information is given as "Mar. 1945 Mo. rep .sub. by S. Saferstein-in mo. rep. source bk." ~ Can anyone translate this bureaucratic shorthand? ~ Are there likely additional records >from this organization which could be helpful in learning this soldier's family ties? NARA provides an Army Serial Number, branch of service, enlistment date, etc. ~ Is it possible to request WWII US Army personnel records? Are they likely to provide family information if the soldier was an orphan? Any suggestions would be appreciated, Sherri Venditti
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The Netherlands to give a face to 10,000 killed US WWII Soldiers
#general
Debby Gincig Painter
This is a great project. I have nothing to do with it but thought
it should be shared. Debby Painter Michigan http://degezichtenvanmargraten.nl/index.php/en-US/news/44-the-netherlands-to-give-a-face-to-10-000-killed-u-s-wwii-soldiers [or http://tinyurl.com/pho6ud3 - MODERATOR]
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Netherlands to give a face to 10,000 killed US WWII Soldiers
#general
Debby Gincig Painter
This is a great project. I have nothing to do with it but thought
it should be shared. Debby Painter Michigan http://degezichtenvanmargraten.nl/index.php/en-US/news/44-the-netherlands-to-give-a-face-to-10-000-killed-u-s-wwii-soldiers [or http://tinyurl.com/pho6ud3 - MODERATOR]
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Young Israel honorees from 1982 biographical sketches
#general
Gary Lelonek <gary.lelonek@...>
Dear Genners,
I came across an award and bencher book >from the 70th anniversary dinner for the National Council of Young Israel dated Sunday, March 14, 1982. In addition to listing the honorees they also provide a biographical sketch of each and mention their community involvement. Here is a list of the honorees: Eli GERSTEN of NY Nathaniel and Ruth SAPERSTEIN of NY Dr. Murray MEDNICK and Risha GOODMAN of NY Ben and Rachel GILMAN of Coney Island Lena ALTSHULD of Cleveland Ernest and Kitty FIELD of NY and Greater Miami Carole and Jack FORGASH of Flatbush Dr. Edward and Glenda HAROW of Century City California Max and Ceil HEIMOWITZ of Skylake Florida Erwin and Lotte KATZ of Brookline Elias and Ilse LAUER of Woodmere Harold and Florence MEISELMAN of NYC Morris NOVETSKY and Phyllis MOSKOWITZ of Southfield Rabbi Symcha Bunim PIONTNICA of Boro Park Joe and Thelma ROBINSON of Midwood Hans and Shulamith SEIDEMANN of Forest Hills Samuel "Sonny" and Doris SKLAR of Kew Gardens Hills Rabbi Leon L. SOLONCHE of Plainview Cantor Lawrence and Roslyn STERN of Pelham Parkway. If anyone would like a copy of a biographical sketch please email me. Thank you, Gary Lelonek NOTE: The MODERATOR - who had to retype all of the above names in upper case - will not be held responsible for any typographical errors.
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Young Israel honorees from 1982 biographical sketches
#general
Gary Lelonek <gary.lelonek@...>
Dear Genners,
I came across an award and bencher book >from the 70th anniversary dinner for the National Council of Young Israel dated Sunday, March 14, 1982. In addition to listing the honorees they also provide a biographical sketch of each and mention their community involvement. Here is a list of the honorees: Eli GERSTEN of NY Nathaniel and Ruth SAPERSTEIN of NY Dr. Murray MEDNICK and Risha GOODMAN of NY Ben and Rachel GILMAN of Coney Island Lena ALTSHULD of Cleveland Ernest and Kitty FIELD of NY and Greater Miami Carole and Jack FORGASH of Flatbush Dr. Edward and Glenda HAROW of Century City California Max and Ceil HEIMOWITZ of Skylake Florida Erwin and Lotte KATZ of Brookline Elias and Ilse LAUER of Woodmere Harold and Florence MEISELMAN of NYC Morris NOVETSKY and Phyllis MOSKOWITZ of Southfield Rabbi Symcha Bunim PIONTNICA of Boro Park Joe and Thelma ROBINSON of Midwood Hans and Shulamith SEIDEMANN of Forest Hills Samuel "Sonny" and Doris SKLAR of Kew Gardens Hills Rabbi Leon L. SOLONCHE of Plainview Cantor Lawrence and Roslyn STERN of Pelham Parkway. If anyone would like a copy of a biographical sketch please email me. Thank you, Gary Lelonek NOTE: The MODERATOR - who had to retype all of the above names in upper case - will not be held responsible for any typographical errors.
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Re: Stolpersteine and Memorial Plaques
#germany
suzetarica@...
Hello, I wanted to mention as an alternative to Stolpersteine, the example
of my small town in Rheinland-Pfalz, Bollendorf. There was a community of about 100 Jews. About 50 of them died in the Holocaust. The synagogue had been burned down. We, the descendants, were able to ask the town for a large memorial plaque offered by the mayor and town council, (who by the way had no idea there had been such a vibrant Jewish community) and the descendants of the Bollendorf community themselves paid for another plaque listing all the full names and dates of the victims. They both are on a wall along the town cemetery, in a public place. They show the staggering extent of the destruction in one place. Suzanne Tarica Bethesda MD suzetarica@...
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German SIG #Germany Re: Stolpersteine and Memorial Plaques
#germany
suzetarica@...
Hello, I wanted to mention as an alternative to Stolpersteine, the example
of my small town in Rheinland-Pfalz, Bollendorf. There was a community of about 100 Jews. About 50 of them died in the Holocaust. The synagogue had been burned down. We, the descendants, were able to ask the town for a large memorial plaque offered by the mayor and town council, (who by the way had no idea there had been such a vibrant Jewish community) and the descendants of the Bollendorf community themselves paid for another plaque listing all the full names and dates of the victims. They both are on a wall along the town cemetery, in a public place. They show the staggering extent of the destruction in one place. Suzanne Tarica Bethesda MD suzetarica@...
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Royalterra Jewish Genealogy Website
#general
kelwel@...
I discovered this website which has many Jewish family trees on it and I
found that there are on it a number of persons with my family name. Also one of my friends found a number of relatives on this website. The question is: where did the people who are in charge of this website get the information? Since there is no way of contacting the website, I posted a message on the Jewishgen discussion group and did get >from Logan Kleinwachs the information on the organization and the people behind it. It is an organization with the name of Sefarad House, located in Northampton in the UK (I am omitting the street address and postal code). The person in charge of the website seems to be a Mr. Jacob Maldonado. If anyone knows anything about this organization I would appreciate a response. Henry Wellisch Toronto MODERATOR: Quick Googles of "Jacob Maldonado" with "Sefarad" and also "Jacob Maldonado" with "Northampton" yield links to a wide variety of companies (many apparently now dissolved), fundraising sites (including Kickstarter), and even photos of Jacob. He also appears on LinkedIn.
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Royalterra Jewish Genealogy Website
#general
kelwel@...
I discovered this website which has many Jewish family trees on it and I
found that there are on it a number of persons with my family name. Also one of my friends found a number of relatives on this website. The question is: where did the people who are in charge of this website get the information? Since there is no way of contacting the website, I posted a message on the Jewishgen discussion group and did get >from Logan Kleinwachs the information on the organization and the people behind it. It is an organization with the name of Sefarad House, located in Northampton in the UK (I am omitting the street address and postal code). The person in charge of the website seems to be a Mr. Jacob Maldonado. If anyone knows anything about this organization I would appreciate a response. Henry Wellisch Toronto MODERATOR: Quick Googles of "Jacob Maldonado" with "Sefarad" and also "Jacob Maldonado" with "Northampton" yield links to a wide variety of companies (many apparently now dissolved), fundraising sites (including Kickstarter), and even photos of Jacob. He also appears on LinkedIn.
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Re: Jirka, Jiri FIEDLER
#austria-czech
I googled and found this article as mentioned by Helen Epstein about
the murderer of the Jiri and Dagmar Fiedlers. You can read about the subterfuge that the murderer undertook to canvas their home and murder of this wonderful couple. http://www.praguemonitor.com/2015/02/25/respekt-prague-jewish-historian-fiedler-killed-thief Madeleine Isenberg Beverly Hills, CA madeleine.isenberg@... Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of Galicia, Poland: Nowy Targ, Nowy Sanz, Wachsmund, Dembno, Lapuszna, Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby towns in northern Slovakia and Czech Republic (i.e., those who lived/had businesses in Moravska Ostrava). GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros and Kosice, Slovakia; Tolcsva, Hungary; very briefly in Timisoara, Romania
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Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Jirka, Jiri FIEDLER
#austria-czech
I googled and found this article as mentioned by Helen Epstein about
the murderer of the Jiri and Dagmar Fiedlers. You can read about the subterfuge that the murderer undertook to canvas their home and murder of this wonderful couple. http://www.praguemonitor.com/2015/02/25/respekt-prague-jewish-historian-fiedler-killed-thief Madeleine Isenberg Beverly Hills, CA madeleine.isenberg@... Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of Galicia, Poland: Nowy Targ, Nowy Sanz, Wachsmund, Dembno, Lapuszna, Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby towns in northern Slovakia and Czech Republic (i.e., those who lived/had businesses in Moravska Ostrava). GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros and Kosice, Slovakia; Tolcsva, Hungary; very briefly in Timisoara, Romania
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Re: RE Stolpersteine not to be walked on
#germany
Fritz Neubauer
Am 12.03.2015 Gunther Steinberg gunste24@... wrote:
... Of course there is an alternative. What remains of the JewishDear Gunther, the suggestion to put plates into walls seems to be impratical, because you would need an agreement with each individual house owner (or owners!), while the pavements are city property, and the city administrations can do there or allow whatever they decide to do. Such a situation arose e.g. in my town here when many years ago a plate was supposed to be affixed into the wall of the house where originally the local synagoge stood. The house owners refused to allow that, so the city erected a small monument in front of the house - the memorial meetings in November have been taking place there ever since ... With kind regards Fritz Neubauer, North Germany
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German SIG #Germany Re: RE Stolpersteine not to be walked on
#germany
Fritz Neubauer
Am 12.03.2015 Gunther Steinberg gunste24@... wrote:
... Of course there is an alternative. What remains of the JewishDear Gunther, the suggestion to put plates into walls seems to be impratical, because you would need an agreement with each individual house owner (or owners!), while the pavements are city property, and the city administrations can do there or allow whatever they decide to do. Such a situation arose e.g. in my town here when many years ago a plate was supposed to be affixed into the wall of the house where originally the local synagoge stood. The house owners refused to allow that, so the city erected a small monument in front of the house - the memorial meetings in November have been taking place there ever since ... With kind regards Fritz Neubauer, North Germany
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