Date   

Romania SIG #Romania RE: Moldova, Moldavia, Bessarabia #romania

psilver3@...
 

My grandmother was >from Lipcan. She said it was Bessarabia. Her family
spoke Yiddish.

PETER SILVERMAN

 On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 08:20 AM, Yefim A Kogan yefimk@...
wrote:
Â
 > Dear Luc,


I think you made a very good observation. Thanks a lot.

I just want to add a little about languages.

For at least Bessarabian Jews Yiddish was a language at home much
longer. I
was born after the war and Yiddish was spoken in our home, and was
first
language for my brother and myself and many Jews in my generation. In
all
other Russia (Soviet Union) Yiddish mostly disappeared in 1920s-30s,
but for
Bessarabia and also western parts of Ukraine, Yiddish was the language
in
our homes.

Also for those Jews who lived in Bessarabia between the wars the
Romanian
language was spoken too, especially in smaller communities, maybe less
in
Kishinev. Many Jews studied in regular schools, which between the
wars were
mostly Romanian schools, and not Russian. Romanian disappeared after
the
war. In my generation we studied in Russian schools, and Romanian was
a
"second" language and very few spoke it.

Let's continue our discussions.

L'Shana Tovah.
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai,
China


Re: Moldova, Moldavia, Bessarabia #romania

psilver3@...
 

My grandmother was >from Lipcan. She said it was Bessarabia. Her family
spoke Yiddish.

PETER SILVERMAN

 On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 08:20 AM, Yefim A Kogan yefimk@...
wrote:
Â
 > Dear Luc,


I think you made a very good observation. Thanks a lot.

I just want to add a little about languages.

For at least Bessarabian Jews Yiddish was a language at home much
longer. I
was born after the war and Yiddish was spoken in our home, and was
first
language for my brother and myself and many Jews in my generation. In
all
other Russia (Soviet Union) Yiddish mostly disappeared in 1920s-30s,
but for
Bessarabia and also western parts of Ukraine, Yiddish was the language
in
our homes.

Also for those Jews who lived in Bessarabia between the wars the
Romanian
language was spoken too, especially in smaller communities, maybe less
in
Kishinev. Many Jews studied in regular schools, which between the
wars were
mostly Romanian schools, and not Russian. Romanian disappeared after
the
war. In my generation we studied in Russian schools, and Romanian was
a
"second" language and very few spoke it.

Let's continue our discussions.

L'Shana Tovah.
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai,
China


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine More about cemeteries #ukraine

Yefim Kogan
 

Dear Researchers,

I have updated you recently with Cemetery work. Since that our photographer
went to Bessarabeska, where he found two cemeteries, and photographed both
of them. I hope we will work on indexing of these two cemeteries soon.

Couple of days ago I got a very interesting idea. A person was working to
compile a list of people buried in Dumbroveni cemetery... and that cemetery
does not exist anymore. I have photos of few remaining tombstones at that
cemetery, and thought to send them to JOWBR, but now I think I will wait
until that list of people buried in that cemetery is completed, and will
send such a list... with these 3 photos.

Because of this, I was thinking that if you are certain that a person was
buried in a cemetery, but that information does not exist at JOWBR, you
can send me that information, and I will include it in the list.
Here is the template:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Bessarabia/files/cemetery/jowbrtemplateadd.xlsx
Probably many columns be empty, but put as much information as you know.
If you do not know exact date of birth or death, you can put just year...
There is one additional column S - that one will not be sent to JOWBR,
please put your name there, just for me to know who put this information!

So, if we finished a cemetery, you checked the JOWBR and cannot see your
ancestors who were buried there, please put information into the template
and send to us.

I recently got photos >from Skulyani, Bessarabia cemetery... the whole
cemetery was destroyed. There is only one monument standing, put recently
for the father of Skulyaner Rebe, with several parts and broken of
monuments put at the bottom. You can send me information about people
Buried in Skulyani, Moldova and I include the records to JOWBR.

I also planning to compile a list of Jews buried in Kaushany, Bendery
uezd... (cemetery was destroyed in the 1970s).

Let me know if you have any questions, issues.

L'Shana Tovah.
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai, China


More about cemeteries #ukraine

Yefim Kogan
 

Dear Researchers,

I have updated you recently with Cemetery work. Since that our photographer
went to Bessarabeska, where he found two cemeteries, and photographed both
of them. I hope we will work on indexing of these two cemeteries soon.

Couple of days ago I got a very interesting idea. A person was working to
compile a list of people buried in Dumbroveni cemetery... and that cemetery
does not exist anymore. I have photos of few remaining tombstones at that
cemetery, and thought to send them to JOWBR, but now I think I will wait
until that list of people buried in that cemetery is completed, and will
send such a list... with these 3 photos.

Because of this, I was thinking that if you are certain that a person was
buried in a cemetery, but that information does not exist at JOWBR, you
can send me that information, and I will include it in the list.
Here is the template:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Bessarabia/files/cemetery/jowbrtemplateadd.xlsx
Probably many columns be empty, but put as much information as you know.
If you do not know exact date of birth or death, you can put just year...
There is one additional column S - that one will not be sent to JOWBR,
please put your name there, just for me to know who put this information!

So, if we finished a cemetery, you checked the JOWBR and cannot see your
ancestors who were buried there, please put information into the template
and send to us.

I recently got photos >from Skulyani, Bessarabia cemetery... the whole
cemetery was destroyed. There is only one monument standing, put recently
for the father of Skulyaner Rebe, with several parts and broken of
monuments put at the bottom. You can send me information about people
Buried in Skulyani, Moldova and I include the records to JOWBR.

I also planning to compile a list of Jews buried in Kaushany, Bendery
uezd... (cemetery was destroyed in the 1970s).

Let me know if you have any questions, issues.

L'Shana Tovah.
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai, China


JGS of Michigan Program September 20: Introduction to Genealogy #general

Adina Lipsitz
 

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Michigan is proud to announce its
first event of the 2015-2016 programming year:

Introduction to Genealogy

Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 11:00 AM
Holocaust Memorial Center
Free for members; $5 for guests
http://jgsmi.org/introduction-to-genealogy-2015/

This event is presented in memory of former board member Judge Shlomo
Sperka (z''l), who passed away in Israel on July 28, 2015.

Have you been curious about your family history but have no idea how
to begin? This presentation is geared for the beginner and
intermediate researcher. You will be acquainted with the availability
of various research documents. Organizing and keeping track of
research as well as the reliability and accuracy of documents will be
discussed.

Central topics include: City Directories, U.S. Census, U.S.
Naturalization, Ship Manifests, WWI Draft Registrations, Social
Security Death Index, Newspapers, Cemeteries, Funeral Records and
Vital Records.

An overview of Internet genealogy sites, historical and authoritative
treatises and joining genealogical societies as well as special
interest groups [SIG] and birds of a feather [BOF] will conclude the
program.

About the Speaker

Diane M. Freilich, is a duly licensed attorney in the State of
Michigan since 1972. In 1997 she became active in family research,
finding family members throughout the United States, United Kingdom
and all the way to Zimbabwe.

Diane has been a guest lecturer on several topics since 2005. She has
lectured to local genealogical societies in Michigan and Arizona as
well as International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
[IAJGS]. Additionally, Avotaynu has published two of her articles.
Exploring Court House Records Fall 2005 and the other Extended Uses
for U.S. City Directories [Summer 2015].

Diane sits on the Board of her local Genealogical Society in Michigan
for the past 17 years.

RSVP online at: http://jgsmi.org/introduction-to-genealogy-2015/

Adina Lipsitz
JGSMI President


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGS of Michigan Program September 20: Introduction to Genealogy #general

Adina Lipsitz
 

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Michigan is proud to announce its
first event of the 2015-2016 programming year:

Introduction to Genealogy

Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 11:00 AM
Holocaust Memorial Center
Free for members; $5 for guests
http://jgsmi.org/introduction-to-genealogy-2015/

This event is presented in memory of former board member Judge Shlomo
Sperka (z''l), who passed away in Israel on July 28, 2015.

Have you been curious about your family history but have no idea how
to begin? This presentation is geared for the beginner and
intermediate researcher. You will be acquainted with the availability
of various research documents. Organizing and keeping track of
research as well as the reliability and accuracy of documents will be
discussed.

Central topics include: City Directories, U.S. Census, U.S.
Naturalization, Ship Manifests, WWI Draft Registrations, Social
Security Death Index, Newspapers, Cemeteries, Funeral Records and
Vital Records.

An overview of Internet genealogy sites, historical and authoritative
treatises and joining genealogical societies as well as special
interest groups [SIG] and birds of a feather [BOF] will conclude the
program.

About the Speaker

Diane M. Freilich, is a duly licensed attorney in the State of
Michigan since 1972. In 1997 she became active in family research,
finding family members throughout the United States, United Kingdom
and all the way to Zimbabwe.

Diane has been a guest lecturer on several topics since 2005. She has
lectured to local genealogical societies in Michigan and Arizona as
well as International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
[IAJGS]. Additionally, Avotaynu has published two of her articles.
Exploring Court House Records Fall 2005 and the other Extended Uses
for U.S. City Directories [Summer 2015].

Diane sits on the Board of her local Genealogical Society in Michigan
for the past 17 years.

RSVP online at: http://jgsmi.org/introduction-to-genealogy-2015/

Adina Lipsitz
JGSMI President


New Vilnius Internal Passports File #general

Eden Joachim <esjoachim@...>
 

A new file of Internal Passports for Vilnius has been added to the
Shutterfly site for Vilnius Internal Passports. It is the last file shown
on the Data page.

Thanks go to MyHeritage for their generosity to help get these records
translated.

Go to https://www.litvaksig.org/research/special-projects/internal-passports
for information on the project. Go to
https://www.litvaksig.org/join-and-contribute/ to make your contribution to
access these records.

These records will be added to the All Lithuania Database (ALD) in
approximately 18 months. At the same time, they will become available in the
JewishGen Lithuania Country Database.

Eden Joachim
Coordinator, IP Project


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen New Vilnius Internal Passports File #general

Eden Joachim <esjoachim@...>
 

A new file of Internal Passports for Vilnius has been added to the
Shutterfly site for Vilnius Internal Passports. It is the last file shown
on the Data page.

Thanks go to MyHeritage for their generosity to help get these records
translated.

Go to https://www.litvaksig.org/research/special-projects/internal-passports
for information on the project. Go to
https://www.litvaksig.org/join-and-contribute/ to make your contribution to
access these records.

These records will be added to the All Lithuania Database (ALD) in
approximately 18 months. At the same time, they will become available in the
JewishGen Lithuania Country Database.

Eden Joachim
Coordinator, IP Project


Romania SIG #Romania Bistrita records help! #romania

Matthew Herzog <matthewherzog85@...>
 

I am researching an individual known to me as Bela Herzcovici. (I'm
pretty sure that the last name could also be spelled in a variety of
ways in English. I've also noticed that Herzcovitz could be a
contender.) I know that he was born on August 9th in either 1923 or
1926. On his US social security application, he wrote that he was born
in Bistritsa, Romania (the alternate/corrected place on Ancestry has
it as Bistrta). His parents were noted as being Nathan Herzcovici and
Jeni Furst. According to one story, Bela, a Jew, had at least one
sibling. This sibling and his mother both perished in the Holocaust,
but the location and date are unknown. Bela was also in the camp, but
survived and was liberated. He was then transported to Argentina where
he married, had a small family, divorced, and then moved to New York.
I suppose I'd like to know where to start with my research. My goal at
the moment is to try and find a record to solidify when and where Bela
was born. Do I want to try and find Bela's birth record? Which would
be best, the civil or synagogal? Where do I look for that information?
Is there an easy way to access vital records in that particular region
of Romania?

My simple searches of a couple of Holocaust databases aren't proving
that Jeni was ever interred in a camp, but I'm sure they're incomplete
given the magnitude of the Holocaust.

Thank you in advance for your time!

Matthew Herzog
Orlando, Florida


Bistrita records help! #romania

Matthew Herzog <matthewherzog85@...>
 

I am researching an individual known to me as Bela Herzcovici. (I'm
pretty sure that the last name could also be spelled in a variety of
ways in English. I've also noticed that Herzcovitz could be a
contender.) I know that he was born on August 9th in either 1923 or
1926. On his US social security application, he wrote that he was born
in Bistritsa, Romania (the alternate/corrected place on Ancestry has
it as Bistrta). His parents were noted as being Nathan Herzcovici and
Jeni Furst. According to one story, Bela, a Jew, had at least one
sibling. This sibling and his mother both perished in the Holocaust,
but the location and date are unknown. Bela was also in the camp, but
survived and was liberated. He was then transported to Argentina where
he married, had a small family, divorced, and then moved to New York.
I suppose I'd like to know where to start with my research. My goal at
the moment is to try and find a record to solidify when and where Bela
was born. Do I want to try and find Bela's birth record? Which would
be best, the civil or synagogal? Where do I look for that information?
Is there an easy way to access vital records in that particular region
of Romania?

My simple searches of a couple of Holocaust databases aren't proving
that Jeni was ever interred in a camp, but I'm sure they're incomplete
given the magnitude of the Holocaust.

Thank you in advance for your time!

Matthew Herzog
Orlando, Florida


Archives, where located for town of Galati, (Galaz), Romania #romania

Bob Roudman
 

Dear Friends,

A relative will be in Galati, (Galaz), Romania for a short time in search
for any and all records for his family. Where would records for the town of
Galati be located? His relatives lived in Galati prior to 1903. The district
in the time frame was Covurlui, and the province was Moldavia. Not sure
where the archives where located then or would be located these days, or if
they exist at all. Has anyone had any luck dealing with Romanian archivists
or in obtaining records >from Romanian archives?

Thank you for any help that you may provide.

Bob Roudman

KRUTANSKY, Tiraspol


Romania SIG #Romania Archives, where located for town of Galati, (Galaz), Romania #romania

Bob Roudman
 

Dear Friends,

A relative will be in Galati, (Galaz), Romania for a short time in search
for any and all records for his family. Where would records for the town of
Galati be located? His relatives lived in Galati prior to 1903. The district
in the time frame was Covurlui, and the province was Moldavia. Not sure
where the archives where located then or would be located these days, or if
they exist at all. Has anyone had any luck dealing with Romanian archivists
or in obtaining records >from Romanian archives?

Thank you for any help that you may provide.

Bob Roudman

KRUTANSKY, Tiraspol


Posted to View Mate #germany

John or Leslie Koelsch <koelsch1886@...>
 

Dear GerSIg Members,

I have posted 4 new documents and reposted one for translation. Thank
you for your help.

Leslie Haas Koelsch, San Francisco

#42230; 44231; 44232; 44233 and 42106.

Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


German SIG #Germany Posted to View Mate #germany

John or Leslie Koelsch <koelsch1886@...>
 

Dear GerSIg Members,

I have posted 4 new documents and reposted one for translation. Thank
you for your help.

Leslie Haas Koelsch, San Francisco

#42230; 44231; 44232; 44233 and 42106.

Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Romania SIG #Romania Re: Re: Moldova, Moldavia, Bessarabia #romania

brunosegal@...
 

I am not sure if there was a significant cultural difference between the Jews of
the western part of Moldova now part of Romania and the Jews in the eastern part
also known as Bessarabia. Until 1812 the entire principality of Moldova was part
of the Ottoman empire. However, at the treaty of Bucharest in 1812 Bessarabia was
removed >from Moldavia and ceded to Russia. At the treaty of Berlin in 1878 Romania
was forced to cede Bessarabia to Russia and accept the province of Dobrogea.


At the beginning of the 19th century there were about 20,000 Jewish residents in
Moldova divided about evenly between the eastern and western parts. The area was
vastly underpopulated and the local boyars (landowners) invited Jews of various
trades and professions to come and develop the province. Many Jews seeking better
opportunities, religious freedom, or fleeing persecution came to Moldova which
saw a vast immigration of Jews >from Poland and Russia between 1830's to 1870's.
The Jewish populations of both the eastern and western part grew dramatically and
by the end of 19th century each part of Moldova had about 250,000 Jews. Some of
these Jews came >from Russia but probably many more came >from south east Poland.

A good source for the history of the Jews in Romania in in the late 19th century
is: "Jews in Romania 1866-1919. >from Exclusion to Emancipation" by Carol Iancu.


Bruno Segal
Teaneck, NJ

On 09/15/15, Luc Radu luc.radu@...<rom-sig@...> wrote:

I would like to add an observation to the discussed issue related to
Romania and its Jews. Indeed these days with Google, Wikipedia & such it
is not complicated to figure out
from where ones ancestors came from, whether "Moldavia" or "Moldova" is
being used on JGEN and learn something about the "old country".

But is is important to have also some understanding of the fact,
notwithstanding the changes of borders, in particular between 1918 and
1940 and then after WW2,
culturally Jews in those places belonged to quite different traditions.
Of course, for Ashkenazi Jews Yiddish was at least to early 1900 the
language spoken at home everywhere.
BUT, Jews which attempted, with all the hardships, to succseed
professionally were different based on where came >from as follows:
a) Bessarabian Jews were Russian in culture and Russian and not at all
Romanian was the language they used;
b) Bukovina Jews were German/Austrian in culture whether living in
Cernauti or Gura HUmora or Suceava;
c) Old Kingdom Jews whether living in Iasi or Bucuresti were Romanian in
culture;
d) Transylvanian Jews were to a very large extent Magyarized (perhaps more
so in large cities like Cluj or Oradea and less so in Sibiu or Brasov,
where German may have been the language of choice;
e) Banat Jews were to some extent similar with Bukovina Jews;
f) Maramures may be the only place where Jews, which were farmers and wood
cutters, were using mostly Yiddish.
Of course, Sephardic Jews which lived mostly South of an imaginary line
going >from Timisoara to Bucuresti and Galati, were a different category
altogether speaking Ladino and being even more likely to adopt Romanian
language than AJ Jews.


Luc Radu
Great Neck

On 9/10/15, 7:47 PM, "Romania SIG on behalf of Rosanne Leeson
rdleeson@..." <rom-sig@...> wrote:

There is clearer definition needed to distinguish the present-day
Moldavia region of Romania, which is in Romania, and west of the Prut
River, >from the separate country, the Republic of Moldova, east of the
Prut River. The present day definitions are what are used on JewishGen.
Please notice the difference in spelling.

It is true that in the past the country borders etc. were different.It
is the old story of the man who was born in one country, married in
another, died in a third, and never left home! There are similar
problems with Polish, Galician and German records as well. There are
also the records in the west of what is now Romania, but was formerly
part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The majority of those civil
records are in Hungarian, and we let the Hungarian SIG work on those.

So, as Sorin has stated, it is important to learn a little history of
the area >from which your family came, to have the most success at
locating their family records. But we do all try to cooperate in
sending you to the best group, if it is possible.

Rosanne Leeson
Coordinator Rom-SIG
---------------------------------------------------

On 9/9/2015 2:07 PM, Yefim A Kogan yefimk@... wrote:
Dear Researchers,

I have received an email >from Marilyn (you can see part of the message
below), I am responding to the whole Bessarabia SIG, Rom-SIG, Ukraine
SIG
and to JewishGen Discussion group. The reason is that I am getting
similar
questions all the time, and I understand the confusion of Marilyn and
many
other Jewish Genealogists.

My goal is to clear this confusion. If you have questions after my
explanation, please do not hesitate to email me or the whole group.

Let's start with terminology.
The term Moldavia and Moldova mean the same region! Moldova is in
Romanian
language and Moldavia was adopted by Russian and other languages,
including
English. Charles King in "The Moldovans. Romania, Russia, and the
Politics
of Culture", Stanford U., 1999 writes that "It is a myth that Moldova
changed its name >from Moldavia. What happened in the 1990s was simply
that
we in the West became better informed about what locals themselves had
always called it."

So let's dive into the history of the region:

Moldavia is known as a country or Principality >from 14 century until
1812.
There were also two other Danube or Romanian Principalities Walachia
and
Transilvania. At some point in the history Moldavia joined other
Principalities. In 1538 Moldovia surrendered to Ottoman Empire, and
remained under Turks for about 300 years. It was not a colonization in
a
strict sense. Moldavia inhabitants exercise their Christian Orthodoxy,
Turks were not able to settle in the region, except in several fortified
towns on the border, and in far north and south parts of the region.

You can find details about the history, governments of the region at our
Bessarabia SIG website or directly at

http://www.jewishgen.org/Bessarabia/files/HistoryOfJewsInBessarabia15-19c
.pd
f

History of Jews in Bessarabia in the 15th to 19th Centuries Geography,
History, Social Status, 2008, Yefim Kogan
You also can find a set of historical maps on Moldova at Wikimedia at

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_of_the_history_of_Moldov
a
and many more maps and articles on the topic of today?s discussion.

Here is a simple version (I probably missed a few details).
Starting >from 18 century Russia tried to influence Moldavia, occupied
it at
the end of 18 century, established military rule, fought many wars on
the
territory of Moldova with Ottomans. Finally Moldavia was divided in
1775,
when Austrian Empire occupied part of Moldova - Bukovina, and in 1812
Russian Empire received the eastern part of Moldavia, a region between
rivers Prut and Dnester. That region became Bessarabia Oblast and
later in
19c Bessarabia Gubernia (province).

In 1812 the rest of Moldova (western part) was still under Ottoman rule
until Moldavia and Walachia formed Romania. Romania was officially
recognized as an independent country in 1878.

One additional swap of lands: >from 1856-1878 south-western part of
Bessarabia went back to Moldova. That region included towns of Izmail,
Kiliya, Reni, Leovo, Kagul. You can see the map with that region on
page 4
of the article above.

Let's follow the history: until WWI nothing changed in the region.
After
WWI and Russian Revolution of 1917 and Russian Civil War, the region
of
North Bukovina and Bessarabia went back Romanian rule. This is why who
ever
lived in Bessarabia in 1920-1940 knows that they were born in Romania,
but
in many cases their parents who were born in the same shteitlakh, but
before
1917 know that they were born in Russia.

In 1940 Soviet Union took the lands of Bessarabia and North Bukovina
back.
This is the time that was formed Moldavskaya Sovetskaya
Sotsialisticheskaya
Respublika (MSSR, one of 15 Soviet Republics. MSSR Included most part
of
Bessarabia and a small region on the left side of Dniester River, now
called
Transnistria (with towns of Tiraspol, Rybnitsa, Kamenka, Slobodzeya,
Rashkov, etc.) Also south region of Bessarabia with towns of Akkerman,
Kiliya, Ismail, Reni, and far north region of Bessarabia with towns of
Khotin, Sokeryani, Klishkivtsi, Novoselitsa, etc. became part of Ukraine
Soviet Republic.

Here is my personal story >from my family who lived in what is
Bessarabia for
several centuries:
- I was born in the Soviet Union, Republic of Moldova;
- My parents were born in Romania;
- Grandparents were born in Russian Empire?

What's happening in 1990s you probably know well.

I hope I did not bored you?

Why we are confused?

- Our members are looking for information about their relatives, and
they
see that now Bessarabia Vital records database and Bessarabia Revision
List
database has more than 250,000 records. But if the towns the relatives
live
are Moinesti or Tirgu Ocna no records will be in the Bessarabia
Database!

The thing is that the Romania (Moldova) and Bessarabia (Republic of
Moldova
+ parts of Ukraine) have different genealogy. Bessarabian records are
written mostly in Russian or Russian and Hebrew, and Romanian (Moldova)
records most likely were written in Romanian.
Also most of the Bessarabian records are held in Chisinau (Kishinev,
this
is how I remember that town), and of course the Romanian records are
most
likely in Yassy, a provincial center in what used to be Moldova
Principality, and later a large center in Moldova region of Romania.

- The same names Moldova, or Moldavia are used for land in current
state of
Romania, that is the western part of Romania, as well as the whole
country
of Republic of Moldova.

I have suggested a number of times to JewishGen to avoid at least some
of
the confusions:
1. Rename the Romanian Database to Romania-Moldova Database or
Romania-Bessarabia Database
2. At the list of Romanian Databases there is a section Moldavia, but
it
should be Romania (Moldavia)
3. The section of Moldavia Vital Records should be renamed Romania
(Moldavia) Vital Records.
I believe that these small modifications will be very helpful.

If you have any questions or probably even more questions than before,
please let's discuss, send to me or to the group.

All the best,
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai,
China



---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Moldova Cem. Project

Hello Yefim,
I've been following this project and appreciate your more complete break
down in today's Jewishgen Digest. I did contribute to Bob Wascou
before he
passed. The reason for this message is that I'm confused. My family
were
from Moinesti and Tirgu Ocna, both near each other in Moldova. However,
this area was not Bessarabia. ?..

Can you explain what areas of Moldova are covered other than Bessarabia
and
Chisanou (sp.).
Many Thanks,
Marilyn Newman
Florida, formerly Pittsburgh


Re: Moldova, Moldavia, Bessarabia #romania

brunosegal@...
 

I am not sure if there was a significant cultural difference between the Jews of
the western part of Moldova now part of Romania and the Jews in the eastern part
also known as Bessarabia. Until 1812 the entire principality of Moldova was part
of the Ottoman empire. However, at the treaty of Bucharest in 1812 Bessarabia was
removed >from Moldavia and ceded to Russia. At the treaty of Berlin in 1878 Romania
was forced to cede Bessarabia to Russia and accept the province of Dobrogea.


At the beginning of the 19th century there were about 20,000 Jewish residents in
Moldova divided about evenly between the eastern and western parts. The area was
vastly underpopulated and the local boyars (landowners) invited Jews of various
trades and professions to come and develop the province. Many Jews seeking better
opportunities, religious freedom, or fleeing persecution came to Moldova which
saw a vast immigration of Jews >from Poland and Russia between 1830's to 1870's.
The Jewish populations of both the eastern and western part grew dramatically and
by the end of 19th century each part of Moldova had about 250,000 Jews. Some of
these Jews came >from Russia but probably many more came >from south east Poland.

A good source for the history of the Jews in Romania in in the late 19th century
is: "Jews in Romania 1866-1919. >from Exclusion to Emancipation" by Carol Iancu.


Bruno Segal
Teaneck, NJ

On 09/15/15, Luc Radu luc.radu@...<rom-sig@...> wrote:

I would like to add an observation to the discussed issue related to
Romania and its Jews. Indeed these days with Google, Wikipedia & such it
is not complicated to figure out
from where ones ancestors came from, whether "Moldavia" or "Moldova" is
being used on JGEN and learn something about the "old country".

But is is important to have also some understanding of the fact,
notwithstanding the changes of borders, in particular between 1918 and
1940 and then after WW2,
culturally Jews in those places belonged to quite different traditions.
Of course, for Ashkenazi Jews Yiddish was at least to early 1900 the
language spoken at home everywhere.
BUT, Jews which attempted, with all the hardships, to succseed
professionally were different based on where came >from as follows:
a) Bessarabian Jews were Russian in culture and Russian and not at all
Romanian was the language they used;
b) Bukovina Jews were German/Austrian in culture whether living in
Cernauti or Gura HUmora or Suceava;
c) Old Kingdom Jews whether living in Iasi or Bucuresti were Romanian in
culture;
d) Transylvanian Jews were to a very large extent Magyarized (perhaps more
so in large cities like Cluj or Oradea and less so in Sibiu or Brasov,
where German may have been the language of choice;
e) Banat Jews were to some extent similar with Bukovina Jews;
f) Maramures may be the only place where Jews, which were farmers and wood
cutters, were using mostly Yiddish.
Of course, Sephardic Jews which lived mostly South of an imaginary line
going >from Timisoara to Bucuresti and Galati, were a different category
altogether speaking Ladino and being even more likely to adopt Romanian
language than AJ Jews.


Luc Radu
Great Neck

On 9/10/15, 7:47 PM, "Romania SIG on behalf of Rosanne Leeson
rdleeson@..." <rom-sig@...> wrote:

There is clearer definition needed to distinguish the present-day
Moldavia region of Romania, which is in Romania, and west of the Prut
River, >from the separate country, the Republic of Moldova, east of the
Prut River. The present day definitions are what are used on JewishGen.
Please notice the difference in spelling.

It is true that in the past the country borders etc. were different.It
is the old story of the man who was born in one country, married in
another, died in a third, and never left home! There are similar
problems with Polish, Galician and German records as well. There are
also the records in the west of what is now Romania, but was formerly
part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The majority of those civil
records are in Hungarian, and we let the Hungarian SIG work on those.

So, as Sorin has stated, it is important to learn a little history of
the area >from which your family came, to have the most success at
locating their family records. But we do all try to cooperate in
sending you to the best group, if it is possible.

Rosanne Leeson
Coordinator Rom-SIG
---------------------------------------------------

On 9/9/2015 2:07 PM, Yefim A Kogan yefimk@... wrote:
Dear Researchers,

I have received an email >from Marilyn (you can see part of the message
below), I am responding to the whole Bessarabia SIG, Rom-SIG, Ukraine
SIG
and to JewishGen Discussion group. The reason is that I am getting
similar
questions all the time, and I understand the confusion of Marilyn and
many
other Jewish Genealogists.

My goal is to clear this confusion. If you have questions after my
explanation, please do not hesitate to email me or the whole group.

Let's start with terminology.
The term Moldavia and Moldova mean the same region! Moldova is in
Romanian
language and Moldavia was adopted by Russian and other languages,
including
English. Charles King in "The Moldovans. Romania, Russia, and the
Politics
of Culture", Stanford U., 1999 writes that "It is a myth that Moldova
changed its name >from Moldavia. What happened in the 1990s was simply
that
we in the West became better informed about what locals themselves had
always called it."

So let's dive into the history of the region:

Moldavia is known as a country or Principality >from 14 century until
1812.
There were also two other Danube or Romanian Principalities Walachia
and
Transilvania. At some point in the history Moldavia joined other
Principalities. In 1538 Moldovia surrendered to Ottoman Empire, and
remained under Turks for about 300 years. It was not a colonization in
a
strict sense. Moldavia inhabitants exercise their Christian Orthodoxy,
Turks were not able to settle in the region, except in several fortified
towns on the border, and in far north and south parts of the region.

You can find details about the history, governments of the region at our
Bessarabia SIG website or directly at

http://www.jewishgen.org/Bessarabia/files/HistoryOfJewsInBessarabia15-19c
.pd
f

History of Jews in Bessarabia in the 15th to 19th Centuries Geography,
History, Social Status, 2008, Yefim Kogan
You also can find a set of historical maps on Moldova at Wikimedia at

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_of_the_history_of_Moldov
a
and many more maps and articles on the topic of today?s discussion.

Here is a simple version (I probably missed a few details).
Starting >from 18 century Russia tried to influence Moldavia, occupied
it at
the end of 18 century, established military rule, fought many wars on
the
territory of Moldova with Ottomans. Finally Moldavia was divided in
1775,
when Austrian Empire occupied part of Moldova - Bukovina, and in 1812
Russian Empire received the eastern part of Moldavia, a region between
rivers Prut and Dnester. That region became Bessarabia Oblast and
later in
19c Bessarabia Gubernia (province).

In 1812 the rest of Moldova (western part) was still under Ottoman rule
until Moldavia and Walachia formed Romania. Romania was officially
recognized as an independent country in 1878.

One additional swap of lands: >from 1856-1878 south-western part of
Bessarabia went back to Moldova. That region included towns of Izmail,
Kiliya, Reni, Leovo, Kagul. You can see the map with that region on
page 4
of the article above.

Let's follow the history: until WWI nothing changed in the region.
After
WWI and Russian Revolution of 1917 and Russian Civil War, the region
of
North Bukovina and Bessarabia went back Romanian rule. This is why who
ever
lived in Bessarabia in 1920-1940 knows that they were born in Romania,
but
in many cases their parents who were born in the same shteitlakh, but
before
1917 know that they were born in Russia.

In 1940 Soviet Union took the lands of Bessarabia and North Bukovina
back.
This is the time that was formed Moldavskaya Sovetskaya
Sotsialisticheskaya
Respublika (MSSR, one of 15 Soviet Republics. MSSR Included most part
of
Bessarabia and a small region on the left side of Dniester River, now
called
Transnistria (with towns of Tiraspol, Rybnitsa, Kamenka, Slobodzeya,
Rashkov, etc.) Also south region of Bessarabia with towns of Akkerman,
Kiliya, Ismail, Reni, and far north region of Bessarabia with towns of
Khotin, Sokeryani, Klishkivtsi, Novoselitsa, etc. became part of Ukraine
Soviet Republic.

Here is my personal story >from my family who lived in what is
Bessarabia for
several centuries:
- I was born in the Soviet Union, Republic of Moldova;
- My parents were born in Romania;
- Grandparents were born in Russian Empire?

What's happening in 1990s you probably know well.

I hope I did not bored you?

Why we are confused?

- Our members are looking for information about their relatives, and
they
see that now Bessarabia Vital records database and Bessarabia Revision
List
database has more than 250,000 records. But if the towns the relatives
live
are Moinesti or Tirgu Ocna no records will be in the Bessarabia
Database!

The thing is that the Romania (Moldova) and Bessarabia (Republic of
Moldova
+ parts of Ukraine) have different genealogy. Bessarabian records are
written mostly in Russian or Russian and Hebrew, and Romanian (Moldova)
records most likely were written in Romanian.
Also most of the Bessarabian records are held in Chisinau (Kishinev,
this
is how I remember that town), and of course the Romanian records are
most
likely in Yassy, a provincial center in what used to be Moldova
Principality, and later a large center in Moldova region of Romania.

- The same names Moldova, or Moldavia are used for land in current
state of
Romania, that is the western part of Romania, as well as the whole
country
of Republic of Moldova.

I have suggested a number of times to JewishGen to avoid at least some
of
the confusions:
1. Rename the Romanian Database to Romania-Moldova Database or
Romania-Bessarabia Database
2. At the list of Romanian Databases there is a section Moldavia, but
it
should be Romania (Moldavia)
3. The section of Moldavia Vital Records should be renamed Romania
(Moldavia) Vital Records.
I believe that these small modifications will be very helpful.

If you have any questions or probably even more questions than before,
please let's discuss, send to me or to the group.

All the best,
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania, KOGAN in Dubossary, Moldova, SRULEVICH in Shanghai,
China



---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Moldova Cem. Project

Hello Yefim,
I've been following this project and appreciate your more complete break
down in today's Jewishgen Digest. I did contribute to Bob Wascou
before he
passed. The reason for this message is that I'm confused. My family
were
from Moinesti and Tirgu Ocna, both near each other in Moldova. However,
this area was not Bessarabia. ?..

Can you explain what areas of Moldova are covered other than Bessarabia
and
Chisanou (sp.).
Many Thanks,
Marilyn Newman
Florida, formerly Pittsburgh


ViewMate_Deciphering_Request -German_Handwriting? #germany

Shani <hnshani@...>
 

Hello Gersig,

I need your help to decipher and transcribe the handwriting on a
postcard sent in July 1939 >from Berlin to Brussels.

As one of the few pieces of family correspondence left >from that era,
every word is very important to understand the terrible life my
ancestors went through. Unfortunately I have difficulties in reading
the handwriting and would appreciate your help very much.

No translation is needed.

Scans of both sides of the postcard are located at the following addresses:

Side 1: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM42194

Side 2: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM42195

Please reply directly to my email. hnshani@...

Thanks so much, Hannah Shani, Canada
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


German SIG #Germany ViewMate_Deciphering_Request -German_Handwriting? #germany

Shani <hnshani@...>
 

Hello Gersig,

I need your help to decipher and transcribe the handwriting on a
postcard sent in July 1939 >from Berlin to Brussels.

As one of the few pieces of family correspondence left >from that era,
every word is very important to understand the terrible life my
ancestors went through. Unfortunately I have difficulties in reading
the handwriting and would appreciate your help very much.

No translation is needed.

Scans of both sides of the postcard are located at the following addresses:

Side 1: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM42194

Side 2: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM42195

Please reply directly to my email. hnshani@...

Thanks so much, Hannah Shani, Canada
Please thank those who help you and support ViewMate, JewishGen
and GerSIG
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors/
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/honors.asp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Help request: Martin STERNBERG of Breslau #germany

Alexander Watson <a.watson.genas@...>
 

Dear Genners,
Once again, I would like to ask for your help.

I have not been able to find any firm information about the fate of
one of my great-great uncles : Martin STERNBERG. He was born in
Polgsen (now the village of Pelczyn, near Rawicz, southwestern Poland)
on 25/09/1886. He was born a Jew, so my first move was to check the
Bundesarchivgedenkbuch, but he is not listed as being among the
victims of the Holocaust.

Recently, I found trace of a First World War Grave in Mennevret,
northern France for a Lieutenant Martin STERNBERG of the German Army,
killed on 23/03/1918, visibly at the beginning of the Great Spring
Offensive:

" Zu dem hier registrierten Martin STERNBERG, Leutnant in der 6.
Kompanie des Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 352, gefallen am 23.03.1918,
bestattet auf dem deutschen Soldatenfriedhof Mennevret in Block 3,
Grab 322, konnten wir in den Deutschen Verlustlisten zwei Meldungen
ermitteln "

I have been in contact with the Town Hall of Mennevret and also the
Volksbund they are not able to give me a date of birth, so I cannot,
as yet, identify this grave as being that of my great-great uncle
Martin. The Volksbund were able to identify another entry in the list
of dead but unable to confirm the date or place of birth:

" Verlustliste vom 11.04.1918 wird der Leutnant Martin STERNBERG -
5.11.(ohne Jahresangabe) Breslau - als gefallen gemeldet. In der
Ausgabe vom 21.05.1918 ist folgender Eintrag verzeichnet: STERNBERG,
Martin, Leutnant, 5.11.(ohne Jahresangabe) Neukirch, Breslau -gefallen"

I have promised my correspondant at the Volksbund that I will contact
the archives in Leszno (for Martin's birthplace - Polgsen) and Wroclaw
to ask them to send on any documents that they have - Certificates of
marriage or documents attesting to a religious conversion.

I have been in contact with the Breslau expert, Stephen Falk, who told
me 3 things :

1) That there is a Martin STERNBERG listed in the Breslau
directory of 1915, a Kutscher (carriage or waggon driver)

2) That he does not figure in the list of the 12000 fallen
Jewish soldiers of the Kaiser

3) That I should contact the Centrum Judaicum in Berlin : they
might be able to help me.

Can anyone tell me if the 352nd Infantry Regiment of the Imperial
German Army was Silesian ?

If anybody has any further information or any bright ideas as to where
to go >from here, I would as ever, be very grateful to hear >from you.

Many thanks, Alexander Watson, Genas (near Lyon) France

Search areas:
FABIAN of Kallies, Maerkisch Friedland, Neuwedell, Berlin and Hamburg,
Sao Paolo and Shanghai;
STERNBERG of Polgsen, Rawitsch, Breslau, Berlin, Shanghai, Erfurt and
Fuerth


German SIG #Germany Help request: Martin STERNBERG of Breslau #germany

Alexander Watson <a.watson.genas@...>
 

Dear Genners,
Once again, I would like to ask for your help.

I have not been able to find any firm information about the fate of
one of my great-great uncles : Martin STERNBERG. He was born in
Polgsen (now the village of Pelczyn, near Rawicz, southwestern Poland)
on 25/09/1886. He was born a Jew, so my first move was to check the
Bundesarchivgedenkbuch, but he is not listed as being among the
victims of the Holocaust.

Recently, I found trace of a First World War Grave in Mennevret,
northern France for a Lieutenant Martin STERNBERG of the German Army,
killed on 23/03/1918, visibly at the beginning of the Great Spring
Offensive:

" Zu dem hier registrierten Martin STERNBERG, Leutnant in der 6.
Kompanie des Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 352, gefallen am 23.03.1918,
bestattet auf dem deutschen Soldatenfriedhof Mennevret in Block 3,
Grab 322, konnten wir in den Deutschen Verlustlisten zwei Meldungen
ermitteln "

I have been in contact with the Town Hall of Mennevret and also the
Volksbund they are not able to give me a date of birth, so I cannot,
as yet, identify this grave as being that of my great-great uncle
Martin. The Volksbund were able to identify another entry in the list
of dead but unable to confirm the date or place of birth:

" Verlustliste vom 11.04.1918 wird der Leutnant Martin STERNBERG -
5.11.(ohne Jahresangabe) Breslau - als gefallen gemeldet. In der
Ausgabe vom 21.05.1918 ist folgender Eintrag verzeichnet: STERNBERG,
Martin, Leutnant, 5.11.(ohne Jahresangabe) Neukirch, Breslau -gefallen"

I have promised my correspondant at the Volksbund that I will contact
the archives in Leszno (for Martin's birthplace - Polgsen) and Wroclaw
to ask them to send on any documents that they have - Certificates of
marriage or documents attesting to a religious conversion.

I have been in contact with the Breslau expert, Stephen Falk, who told
me 3 things :

1) That there is a Martin STERNBERG listed in the Breslau
directory of 1915, a Kutscher (carriage or waggon driver)

2) That he does not figure in the list of the 12000 fallen
Jewish soldiers of the Kaiser

3) That I should contact the Centrum Judaicum in Berlin : they
might be able to help me.

Can anyone tell me if the 352nd Infantry Regiment of the Imperial
German Army was Silesian ?

If anybody has any further information or any bright ideas as to where
to go >from here, I would as ever, be very grateful to hear >from you.

Many thanks, Alexander Watson, Genas (near Lyon) France

Search areas:
FABIAN of Kallies, Maerkisch Friedland, Neuwedell, Berlin and Hamburg,
Sao Paolo and Shanghai;
STERNBERG of Polgsen, Rawitsch, Breslau, Berlin, Shanghai, Erfurt and
Fuerth

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