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Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

Joseph Hirschfield
 

Babies who died 100 years ago of usually had a gravestone. It often was
much smaller than that for an adult. Many of these were not of the now more
familiar, durable granite, but often of sandstone, limestone or marble
which can crumble or deliminate over time and may not be legible or even
completely crumble.

Joseph Hirschfield
Portage, MI
HIRSZFELD, HERSCHFELD, HERZFELD, LINDENBAUM, BUXBAUM, BUCHSBAUM-Skwarzawa,
Gliniany, Jaryczow Nowy-GALICIA
MINOWITZKI, MINOWICKI, MINOFF-Brest Litovsk, Vysoko Litovsk-BELARUS


Is there any religious or non-religious reason why a baby's grave
(approximately about 100 years ago) would NOT have a gravestone to mark
the
site of the grave?
snip..........
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

Joseph Hirschfield
 

Babies who died 100 years ago of usually had a gravestone. It often was
much smaller than that for an adult. Many of these were not of the now more
familiar, durable granite, but often of sandstone, limestone or marble
which can crumble or deliminate over time and may not be legible or even
completely crumble.

Joseph Hirschfield
Portage, MI
HIRSZFELD, HERSCHFELD, HERZFELD, LINDENBAUM, BUXBAUM, BUCHSBAUM-Skwarzawa,
Gliniany, Jaryczow Nowy-GALICIA
MINOWITZKI, MINOWICKI, MINOFF-Brest Litovsk, Vysoko Litovsk-BELARUS


Is there any religious or non-religious reason why a baby's grave
(approximately about 100 years ago) would NOT have a gravestone to mark
the
site of the grave?
snip..........
Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

You may not be able to locate a marked grave.

Traditionally, according to Halacha (Jewish law), no funeral or formal
mourning period was held for an infant that did not survive for 30 days.
(While that may seem harsh to us, we must remember that, until relatively
recently, infant and child mortality were extremely high. Funerals
were not held, no marker was placed on the grave, and parents might not
know where the grave was located.
It made sense: Otherwise some families might have been mourning almost
continuously. Today only the most strictly Orthodox are that strict about it -
as infant mortality has decreased, there is recognition of the
parents' need to mourn.

Shelda Sandler stanshel@msn.com
wrote:

Is there any religious or non-religious reason why a baby's grave
(approx 100 yrs ago) would NOT have a gravestone?
snip..............
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

You may not be able to locate a marked grave.

Traditionally, according to Halacha (Jewish law), no funeral or formal
mourning period was held for an infant that did not survive for 30 days.
(While that may seem harsh to us, we must remember that, until relatively
recently, infant and child mortality were extremely high. Funerals
were not held, no marker was placed on the grave, and parents might not
know where the grave was located.
It made sense: Otherwise some families might have been mourning almost
continuously. Today only the most strictly Orthodox are that strict about it -
as infant mortality has decreased, there is recognition of the
parents' need to mourn.

Shelda Sandler stanshel@msn.com
wrote:

Is there any religious or non-religious reason why a baby's grave
(approx 100 yrs ago) would NOT have a gravestone?
snip..............
Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

A. E. Jordan
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelda Sandler stanshel@msn.com

To date, the gravesite for which I am
searching has not been located.
Might the reason for not erecting a
matzevah over a baby or child's grave be
because the parents could not afford
a gravestone? Or could there be some
other reason, religious or
otherwise?


I do not know about religious reasons but it could be affordability issues.
Also a lot of child stones were done of softer, less expensive materials
and stood closer to the ground. The end result the child stones did not
stand the test of time the same way adult stones. I have seen this in the
NYC area a lot of times even at well maintained cemeteries.

So may not be an issue of did a stone exist but instead Did the
stone survive the years.

Allan Jordan
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Gravestone over a Baby's Grave #general

A. E. Jordan
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelda Sandler stanshel@msn.com

To date, the gravesite for which I am
searching has not been located.
Might the reason for not erecting a
matzevah over a baby or child's grave be
because the parents could not afford
a gravestone? Or could there be some
other reason, religious or
otherwise?


I do not know about religious reasons but it could be affordability issues.
Also a lot of child stones were done of softer, less expensive materials
and stood closer to the ground. The end result the child stones did not
stand the test of time the same way adult stones. I have seen this in the
NYC area a lot of times even at well maintained cemeteries.

So may not be an issue of did a stone exist but instead Did the
stone survive the years.

Allan Jordan
Town of Tsanusk? #general

Jeff Marx
 

A number of Jewish inhabitants of Kaunas in the 1860s, were said to be
from the town of Tsanusk/Chanusk in Poland. I'm not finding it in the
JewishGen databases or on the Internet.

Any of you geography mavens have an idea of what town this might be?
My closest guess, so far, would be Sonsk.

Jeff Marx
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Town of Tsanusk? #general

Jeff Marx
 

A number of Jewish inhabitants of Kaunas in the 1860s, were said to be
from the town of Tsanusk/Chanusk in Poland. I'm not finding it in the
JewishGen databases or on the Internet.

Any of you geography mavens have an idea of what town this might be?
My closest guess, so far, would be Sonsk.

Jeff Marx
WWI - Which army? #general

Roberta Berman
 

By 1914 my gr-grandfather Abraham Schoenholz of Zalesczcyki in Galicia
had sent all of his children to America. He and his second wife were not
able to leave until 1921.

I was told the following by Abraham's grandson, who was told it
by his mother (Abraham's daughter). I wrote it down word-for-word as the
grandson was talking.

In 1916 Abraham and a group of people in Zaleszczyki were going
to travel together to get a ship and go to America.
On the day they were leaving, Abraham and his wife got to the bridge
when he remembered that he promised a widow who had a disabled child
that when he left he would take them with him. He turned his wagon
around and went back to get them. By the time they got back to the
bridge the Russians had destroyed it, so they couldn't leave.

He hid in the woods >from the Russians and was found by the army and
drafted on the spot, even though he had served in the army years earlier
when he took the place of his married brother.

Since Abraham lived in Zaleszczyki, he most likely served in the
Austrian Army earlier when he took his brother's place. He was born about 1860
and his oldest child was born about 1885. So the earlier army service would
have ended a couple of years before 1885.

I searched military records for Austria at the Family History Library in
Salt Lake City. They all seem to be for officers only and I couldn't
find him in those records.

Are there any records of men taking the place of someone else in the
Austrian Army?
Could he possibly have been drafted into the Russian Army? Are there
any records?

The grandson is no longer available for clarification of the story.

Thank you for your guidance and suggestions.

Roberta Berman
So. California
rwberman@att.net
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WWI - Which army? #general

Roberta Berman
 

By 1914 my gr-grandfather Abraham Schoenholz of Zalesczcyki in Galicia
had sent all of his children to America. He and his second wife were not
able to leave until 1921.

I was told the following by Abraham's grandson, who was told it
by his mother (Abraham's daughter). I wrote it down word-for-word as the
grandson was talking.

In 1916 Abraham and a group of people in Zaleszczyki were going
to travel together to get a ship and go to America.
On the day they were leaving, Abraham and his wife got to the bridge
when he remembered that he promised a widow who had a disabled child
that when he left he would take them with him. He turned his wagon
around and went back to get them. By the time they got back to the
bridge the Russians had destroyed it, so they couldn't leave.

He hid in the woods >from the Russians and was found by the army and
drafted on the spot, even though he had served in the army years earlier
when he took the place of his married brother.

Since Abraham lived in Zaleszczyki, he most likely served in the
Austrian Army earlier when he took his brother's place. He was born about 1860
and his oldest child was born about 1885. So the earlier army service would
have ended a couple of years before 1885.

I searched military records for Austria at the Family History Library in
Salt Lake City. They all seem to be for officers only and I couldn't
find him in those records.

Are there any records of men taking the place of someone else in the
Austrian Army?
Could he possibly have been drafted into the Russian Army? Are there
any records?

The grandson is no longer available for clarification of the story.

Thank you for your guidance and suggestions.

Roberta Berman
So. California
rwberman@att.net
Name change search in Israel #galicia

Peter Jassem <pjassem@...>
 

Dear Galitzianers,

I am doing research on my relative Edward Rostal b. May 19, 1907 in
Krakow, Poland. He graduated >from the law department of the
Jagiellonian University in Krakow in 1932.

His parents were:
Karol Kalman Rosthal, a commercial agent b. 1872 in Tarnow, Poland,
d. 1944 in Auschwitz
Eugenia Gittel Statter b. 1887 in Nowy Targ, Poland, d. 1944 in Auschwitz

Edward Rostal had a wife by the name Ella b. 1911. I don't know her
maiden name. They were Holocaust survivors and moved to Israel (likely
when it was still called Palestine) after the war. They were already married
before arriving in Israel.

Edward Rostal was an editor of the Polish-language paper "Nowiny" and
later "Nowiny i Kurier." He was a candidate to Knesset at least three times,
in 1955, 1965 and 1969 and to General Council in 1959 but I am unable
to verify if he won the respective elections. He was a member of the
Independent Liberal Party in the 60-ties.

Edward Rostal died in January 1980 and his wife Ella is not alive either.
They had one son Adam but he changed the name Rostal to a Hebrew one.
He may know more about his father and have valuable documents but I
cannot find him. Adam is married.

Does anyone know if there is any way to trace a name change in Israel so
that I could look for Adam or his descendants under their current Hebrew
surname?

Peter Jassem
Toronto
WWI - Which army? #galicia

Roberta Berman
 

By 1914 my great-grandfather Abraham Schoenholz of Zaleszczyki in
Galicia had sent all of his children to America. He and his second wife
were not able to leave until 1921.

I was told the following by Abraham's grandson, who was told it by his
mother (Abraham's daughter). I wrote it down word-for-word as the
grandson was talking.

"In 1916 Abraham and a group of people in Zaleszczyki were going to
travel together to get a ship and go to America. On the day they were
leaving, Abraham and his wife got to the bridge when he remembered
that he promised a widow who had a disabled child that when he left he
would take them with him. He turned his wagon around and went back to
get them. By the time they got back to the bridge the Russians had
destroyed it, so they couldn't leave.

"He hid in the woods >from the Russians and was found by the army and
drafted on the spot, even though he had served in the army years earlier
when he took the place of his married brother."

Since Abraham lived in Zaleszczyki, he most likely served in the Austrian
Army earlier when he took his brother's place. He was born about 1860
and his oldest child was born about 1885. So the earlier army service
would have ended a couple of years before 1885.

I searched military records for Austria at the Family History Library in
Salt Lake City. They all seem to be for officers only and I couldn't find him
in those records.

Are there any records of men taking the place of someone else in the
Austrian Army? Could he possibly have been drafted into the Russian
Army? Are there any records?

The grandson is no longer available for clarification of the story.

Thank you for your guidance and suggestions.

Roberta Berman
So. California
rwberman@att.net
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Name change search in Israel #galicia

Peter Jassem <pjassem@...>
 

Dear Galitzianers,

I am doing research on my relative Edward Rostal b. May 19, 1907 in
Krakow, Poland. He graduated >from the law department of the
Jagiellonian University in Krakow in 1932.

His parents were:
Karol Kalman Rosthal, a commercial agent b. 1872 in Tarnow, Poland,
d. 1944 in Auschwitz
Eugenia Gittel Statter b. 1887 in Nowy Targ, Poland, d. 1944 in Auschwitz

Edward Rostal had a wife by the name Ella b. 1911. I don't know her
maiden name. They were Holocaust survivors and moved to Israel (likely
when it was still called Palestine) after the war. They were already married
before arriving in Israel.

Edward Rostal was an editor of the Polish-language paper "Nowiny" and
later "Nowiny i Kurier." He was a candidate to Knesset at least three times,
in 1955, 1965 and 1969 and to General Council in 1959 but I am unable
to verify if he won the respective elections. He was a member of the
Independent Liberal Party in the 60-ties.

Edward Rostal died in January 1980 and his wife Ella is not alive either.
They had one son Adam but he changed the name Rostal to a Hebrew one.
He may know more about his father and have valuable documents but I
cannot find him. Adam is married.

Does anyone know if there is any way to trace a name change in Israel so
that I could look for Adam or his descendants under their current Hebrew
surname?

Peter Jassem
Toronto
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia WWI - Which army? #galicia

Roberta Berman
 

By 1914 my great-grandfather Abraham Schoenholz of Zaleszczyki in
Galicia had sent all of his children to America. He and his second wife
were not able to leave until 1921.

I was told the following by Abraham's grandson, who was told it by his
mother (Abraham's daughter). I wrote it down word-for-word as the
grandson was talking.

"In 1916 Abraham and a group of people in Zaleszczyki were going to
travel together to get a ship and go to America. On the day they were
leaving, Abraham and his wife got to the bridge when he remembered
that he promised a widow who had a disabled child that when he left he
would take them with him. He turned his wagon around and went back to
get them. By the time they got back to the bridge the Russians had
destroyed it, so they couldn't leave.

"He hid in the woods >from the Russians and was found by the army and
drafted on the spot, even though he had served in the army years earlier
when he took the place of his married brother."

Since Abraham lived in Zaleszczyki, he most likely served in the Austrian
Army earlier when he took his brother's place. He was born about 1860
and his oldest child was born about 1885. So the earlier army service
would have ended a couple of years before 1885.

I searched military records for Austria at the Family History Library in
Salt Lake City. They all seem to be for officers only and I couldn't find him
in those records.

Are there any records of men taking the place of someone else in the
Austrian Army? Could he possibly have been drafted into the Russian
Army? Are there any records?

The grandson is no longer available for clarification of the story.

Thank you for your guidance and suggestions.

Roberta Berman
So. California
rwberman@att.net
Discussion forums for towns like Dubno, Lutsk (Luck), and more #ukraine

Genealogykid20 <genealogykid20@...>
 

We have discussion forums for various towns in the Wolyn area, as
follows:

Luck/Lutsk: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lutsk-Jewish
Dubno: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dubno-Jewish/
Sokal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sokal
Vladimir Volynsk: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Volynsky
Luboml: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Luboml

If you are interested in these places, please join the forum.

Aaron Biterman
Milwaukee, WI
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Discussion forums for towns like Dubno, Lutsk (Luck), and more #ukraine

Genealogykid20 <genealogykid20@...>
 

We have discussion forums for various towns in the Wolyn area, as
follows:

Luck/Lutsk: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lutsk-Jewish
Dubno: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dubno-Jewish/
Sokal: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sokal
Vladimir Volynsk: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Volynsky
Luboml: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Luboml

If you are interested in these places, please join the forum.

Aaron Biterman
Milwaukee, WI
Nichiniac #romania

Kathryn Perrier <kaysbag@...>
 

Greetings,

I recently found documentation of a border crossing >from Mexico to U.S. for
Saba Weincemar (Weinzimmer) DeVega, my husband's Great-Aunt. She listed her
birth place as

Nichniac. Any idea where this is?

Her brother, my husband's Grandfather was born in Poland. Is it possible to
find records of immigration >from Europe to Mexico?

Thank you for any information you can share with me.

Also searching for information about my cousins >from Sibiu (Curciu) area of
Romania. Family name Jager (Jaeger - Yeager) Would records be
found in city records? Thank you,

Kathryn Perrrier
Westlake, Ohio
Romania SIG #Romania Nichiniac #romania

Kathryn Perrier <kaysbag@...>
 

Greetings,

I recently found documentation of a border crossing >from Mexico to U.S. for
Saba Weincemar (Weinzimmer) DeVega, my husband's Great-Aunt. She listed her
birth place as

Nichniac. Any idea where this is?

Her brother, my husband's Grandfather was born in Poland. Is it possible to
find records of immigration >from Europe to Mexico?

Thank you for any information you can share with me.

Also searching for information about my cousins >from Sibiu (Curciu) area of
Romania. Family name Jager (Jaeger - Yeager) Would records be
found in city records? Thank you,

Kathryn Perrrier
Westlake, Ohio
Viewmate Translation Request French #france

sbittker@...
 

Hello,

I located some wonderful documents in the Paris Archives relating to my
great-great-grandmother and two of her children. It is truly a testament
to the greatness of the French state that details of birth, marriage,
and death were recorded in this way. Unfortunately I do not know French
and reading the script is especially difficult with this handicap. If I
could read the script, I could put them into google translate.

So I would be extremely grateful if someone would be willing to translate
some or some parts of them. I realize this is not an easy task and if
there are no takers, I would like to hire somebody to do it and would
welcome referrals for people with expertise in this area who would do
the work for a reasonable fee.

The documents are up on viewmate. Briefly they are:

1) Death record for my great-great grandmother Chaya Lea Merslarsky Grosmann.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42289

2) Marriage record for my great-great aunt Helene Grosmann and her husband
Jacob (Joseph) Erligmann.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42298

3) Marriage record for my great-great aunt Marie Grosmann and her husband
Jacob (Jhen) Leib.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42297

If you wish to translate any, I would be thrilled and please use the
viewmate application to reply. If you have a referral for somebody
who is good at this kind of work, please contact me via email.

Thank you,
Seth Bittker

Researching:
BITTKER, TOKARSKY, LEYBOVITCH - Alexotas
ROZIN, LINKOVSKI - Slobodka
GROSSMAN, MIROSLOVSKI - Paris, Fountainebleau, Prenai
ROTH - Onod, Hungary
HIPSCH, WEISZ - Hernadszentandras, Hungary
French SIG #France Viewmate Translation Request French #france

sbittker@...
 

Hello,

I located some wonderful documents in the Paris Archives relating to my
great-great-grandmother and two of her children. It is truly a testament
to the greatness of the French state that details of birth, marriage,
and death were recorded in this way. Unfortunately I do not know French
and reading the script is especially difficult with this handicap. If I
could read the script, I could put them into google translate.

So I would be extremely grateful if someone would be willing to translate
some or some parts of them. I realize this is not an easy task and if
there are no takers, I would like to hire somebody to do it and would
welcome referrals for people with expertise in this area who would do
the work for a reasonable fee.

The documents are up on viewmate. Briefly they are:

1) Death record for my great-great grandmother Chaya Lea Merslarsky Grosmann.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42289

2) Marriage record for my great-great aunt Helene Grosmann and her husband
Jacob (Joseph) Erligmann.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42298

3) Marriage record for my great-great aunt Marie Grosmann and her husband
Jacob (Jhen) Leib.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=3DVM42297

If you wish to translate any, I would be thrilled and please use the
viewmate application to reply. If you have a referral for somebody
who is good at this kind of work, please contact me via email.

Thank you,
Seth Bittker

Researching:
BITTKER, TOKARSKY, LEYBOVITCH - Alexotas
ROZIN, LINKOVSKI - Slobodka
GROSSMAN, MIROSLOVSKI - Paris, Fountainebleau, Prenai
ROTH - Onod, Hungary
HIPSCH, WEISZ - Hernadszentandras, Hungary
94341 - 94360 of 668768