Date   

Re: Marriage Records in Galicia #general

sallybru@...
 

The marriage would usually take place in the bride's home, so it would be
registered there-if it was registered.

However, I would differ in your saying that the couple usually lived in the
groom's home town. Often the couple was supported by the bride's family,
in their home, as part of the marriage agreement. That was to allow the
groom to continue to study if he was a student. So don't assume that they
lived in the place the groom was born. People moved around a lot more
than we think they did-they might even end up somewhere else.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: Marriage records in Galicia #galicia

Willie46@...
 

I am surely not the definitive authority, but I will give the reasoning
behind my answer. Maybe some more knowledgeable readers will chime in.

Since registration was the responsibility of the Rabbi in the Jewish
Administrative district town, and that Rabbi was appointed by the
Government, it would stand to reason that the marriage was registered in
the district town that was responsible for the town where the marriage
took place.

Having said that, you should know that Jews in Galicia during the period
of Austrian rule, up through the late 19th Century, did not usually
register their religious marriages with the civil authority. Many civil
marriages were, therefore, performed many years after the religious
ceremony. If the couple then lived in a different town, you wouldn't
necessarily know where the original religious ceremony took place. I have
found the civil marriage registration of one set of great grandparents in
1898 at the ages of 60 and 58.

I hope this helps.

Mark Halpern

In a message dated 5/8/01 11:29:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lspalter@netvision.net.il writes:

This questions refers to Eastern Galicia (now Ukraine), but may
apply to other areas, too. If a groom >from one town marries a
bride >from another town - where would the marriage be registered?
In the bride's town, where usually the ceremony took place or in
the groom's town, in which they usually settled?

Any insights will be welcome!


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Marriage Records in Galicia #general

sallybru@...
 

The marriage would usually take place in the bride's home, so it would be
registered there-if it was registered.

However, I would differ in your saying that the couple usually lived in the
groom's home town. Often the couple was supported by the bride's family,
in their home, as part of the marriage agreement. That was to allow the
groom to continue to study if he was a student. So don't assume that they
lived in the place the groom was born. People moved around a lot more
than we think they did-they might even end up somewhere else.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Marriage records in Galicia #general

Willie46@...
 

I am surely not the definitive authority, but I will give the reasoning
behind my answer. Maybe some more knowledgeable readers will chime in.

Since registration was the responsibility of the Rabbi in the Jewish
Administrative district town, and that Rabbi was appointed by the
Government, it would stand to reason that the marriage was registered in
the district town that was responsible for the town where the marriage
took place.

Having said that, you should know that Jews in Galicia during the period
of Austrian rule, up through the late 19th Century, did not usually
register their religious marriages with the civil authority. Many civil
marriages were, therefore, performed many years after the religious
ceremony. If the couple then lived in a different town, you wouldn't
necessarily know where the original religious ceremony took place. I have
found the civil marriage registration of one set of great grandparents in
1898 at the ages of 60 and 58.

I hope this helps.

Mark Halpern

In a message dated 5/8/01 11:29:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lspalter@netvision.net.il writes:

This questions refers to Eastern Galicia (now Ukraine), but may
apply to other areas, too. If a groom >from one town marries a
bride >from another town - where would the marriage be registered?
In the bride's town, where usually the ceremony took place or in
the groom's town, in which they usually settled?

Any insights will be welcome!


Famous rabbis and jewish leader ? #belarus

Francois Chetreanu <chetreanu.thesis@...>
 

Dear All,

I progress with my study about the Jewish emigrants who sailed from
Cherbourg (France) and there's a few days I've found two very
interesting documents.

On July 8 1923 and August 21 1923, before embarking, the jewish
emigrants who stayed at the the "Atlantic Hotel" (the establishment
dedicated to them) expressed their thanks to the staff of the Hotel,
in particular for the comfort which was given to them (kasherout,
synagogue etc.).

The first document is signed by MANDEL rabbi of New York (sic),
Mr. KAT and Mr. FALK or FAIK.

The second document is signed by Emanuel LIEBERMAN (Profesor at
Budapest University), Rabbi Zallel GOTHAM, A. ABRAMON, and Frank
GRUNEY.

It seems that E. LIEBERMAN, R. Zallel GOTHAM, A. ABRAMON and F.
GRUNEY were in Cherbourg on August 1923 to participate to a meeting
with Cherbourg's Rabbi, Chaim BARRAS.

I wonder if these people were well known at that time. I inquired
the Jewish museum in Budapest about E. LIEBERMAN but I have never
received an answer.

Has anybody heard about them ?

Thanks in advance,

Fran=E7ois Chetreanu
Cherbourg / France


Belarus SIG #Belarus Famous rabbis and jewish leader ? #belarus

Francois Chetreanu <chetreanu.thesis@...>
 

Dear All,

I progress with my study about the Jewish emigrants who sailed from
Cherbourg (France) and there's a few days I've found two very
interesting documents.

On July 8 1923 and August 21 1923, before embarking, the jewish
emigrants who stayed at the the "Atlantic Hotel" (the establishment
dedicated to them) expressed their thanks to the staff of the Hotel,
in particular for the comfort which was given to them (kasherout,
synagogue etc.).

The first document is signed by MANDEL rabbi of New York (sic),
Mr. KAT and Mr. FALK or FAIK.

The second document is signed by Emanuel LIEBERMAN (Profesor at
Budapest University), Rabbi Zallel GOTHAM, A. ABRAMON, and Frank
GRUNEY.

It seems that E. LIEBERMAN, R. Zallel GOTHAM, A. ABRAMON and F.
GRUNEY were in Cherbourg on August 1923 to participate to a meeting
with Cherbourg's Rabbi, Chaim BARRAS.

I wonder if these people were well known at that time. I inquired
the Jewish museum in Budapest about E. LIEBERMAN but I have never
received an answer.

Has anybody heard about them ?

Thanks in advance,

Fran=E7ois Chetreanu
Cherbourg / France


Ship mainfest #ukraine

Nelson, David (DHS-CDIC) <DNelson3@...>
 

Hi Genners:

Now that I have found the ship the family came on (SS Friesland) in 1910,
how do I go about getting a copy of the entire manifest so I can check for
them all. They didn't come through Ellis Island afterall, but came directly
from Liverpool, England to Philadelphia.
Any Philadelphia ships manifests online? So far, I have not discovered any.
I was sent the original intention to naturalize for an Uncle and there was
the ship and date of arrival. I just need to get an entire manifest to
check for all the Grechevskeys, Gritzewskys >from Kirovograd. Thanks in
advance for any assistance. David Nelson in Sacramento.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Ship mainfest #ukraine

Nelson, David (DHS-CDIC) <DNelson3@...>
 

Hi Genners:

Now that I have found the ship the family came on (SS Friesland) in 1910,
how do I go about getting a copy of the entire manifest so I can check for
them all. They didn't come through Ellis Island afterall, but came directly
from Liverpool, England to Philadelphia.
Any Philadelphia ships manifests online? So far, I have not discovered any.
I was sent the original intention to naturalize for an Uncle and there was
the ship and date of arrival. I just need to get an entire manifest to
check for all the Grechevskeys, Gritzewskys >from Kirovograd. Thanks in
advance for any assistance. David Nelson in Sacramento.


Re: origin and provenance of name "MEHLMAN" #ukraine

Roberta Sheps <roberta_l_sheps@...>
 

"Mehl" is Yiddish for flour and Mehlman could, I suppose, denote someone
whose living was involved with flour, probably a miller. On the other
hand, he could have been called Milner, which is miller in Yiddish.

Anyone else?


Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England

Bob wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
could someone tell me where and how the name MEHLMAN originated? there are
lots living in the u.s. i've also seen it as MILLMAN and MELMAN. is it
always a jewish name? do MEHLMANS tend to be related?

--bob alexander, washington state


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: origin and provenance of name "MEHLMAN" #ukraine

Roberta Sheps <roberta_l_sheps@...>
 

"Mehl" is Yiddish for flour and Mehlman could, I suppose, denote someone
whose living was involved with flour, probably a miller. On the other
hand, he could have been called Milner, which is miller in Yiddish.

Anyone else?


Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England

Bob wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
could someone tell me where and how the name MEHLMAN originated? there are
lots living in the u.s. i've also seen it as MILLMAN and MELMAN. is it
always a jewish name? do MEHLMANS tend to be related?

--bob alexander, washington state


Re: Marriage records in Galicia #galicia

Willie46@...
 

I am surely not the definitive authority, but I will give the reasoning
behind my answer. Maybe some more knowledgeable readers will chime in.

Since registration was the responsibility of the Rabbi in the Jewish
Administrative district town, and that Rabbi was appointed by the Government,
it would stand to reason that the marriage was registered in the district
town that was responsible for the town where the marriage took place.

Having said that, you should know that Jews in Galicia during the period of
Austrian rule, up through the late 19th Century, did not usually register
their religious marriages with the civil authority. Many civil marriages
were, therefore, performed many years after the religious ceremony. If the
couple then lived in a different town, you wouldn't necessarily know where
the original religious ceremony took place. I have found the civil marriage
registration of one set of great grandparents in 1898 at the ages of 60 and
58.

I hope this helps.

Mark Halpern

In a message dated 5/8/01 11:29:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lspalter@netvision.net.il writes:

This questions refers to Eastern Galicia (now Ukraine), but may
apply to other areas, too. If a groom >from one town marries a
bride >from another town - where would the marriage be registered?
In the bride's town, where usually the ceremony took place or in
the groom's town, in which they usually settled?

Any insights will be welcome!


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Marriage records in Galicia #poland

Willie46@...
 

I am surely not the definitive authority, but I will give the reasoning
behind my answer. Maybe some more knowledgeable readers will chime in.

Since registration was the responsibility of the Rabbi in the Jewish
Administrative district town, and that Rabbi was appointed by the Government,
it would stand to reason that the marriage was registered in the district
town that was responsible for the town where the marriage took place.

Having said that, you should know that Jews in Galicia during the period of
Austrian rule, up through the late 19th Century, did not usually register
their religious marriages with the civil authority. Many civil marriages
were, therefore, performed many years after the religious ceremony. If the
couple then lived in a different town, you wouldn't necessarily know where
the original religious ceremony took place. I have found the civil marriage
registration of one set of great grandparents in 1898 at the ages of 60 and
58.

I hope this helps.

Mark Halpern

In a message dated 5/8/01 11:29:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lspalter@netvision.net.il writes:

This questions refers to Eastern Galicia (now Ukraine), but may
apply to other areas, too. If a groom >from one town marries a
bride >from another town - where would the marriage be registered?
In the bride's town, where usually the ceremony took place or in
the groom's town, in which they usually settled?

Any insights will be welcome!


Wrong email address #latvia

Craig Sugerman <csug18@...>
 

Could Reuven Lacob of Israel please check on the working status of his
email. He responded to me on Latvia SIG. Thank You, Craig S.
email csug18@hotmail.com


Latvia SIG #Latvia Wrong email address #latvia

Craig Sugerman <csug18@...>
 

Could Reuven Lacob of Israel please check on the working status of his
email. He responded to me on Latvia SIG. Thank You, Craig S.
email csug18@hotmail.com


Mehlman-Goldberg in Toledo and LasV egas plus Sokolov and Volkhov from Nikolaev and Mexico #ukraine

Bob <rjalexand@...>
 

Dear List -- four of us MEHLMAN progeny are comparing notes. no hits so far.
here's where we stand, thanks to the collecting efforts of angela kirby.

readers please examine the names to see if any fit into your scope:

EMET SCHNEIDERMAN'S Family

1. Ichil-Mechil Mehlman
2. Beryl/Baruch Mehlman -m- Leah???
3. Harry/Zvi Mehlman -m- Minnie Breitman
4. Ben Mehlman, Harriet Mehlman -m- ???Schneiderman, ????Mehlman -m-
???Robinson
5. Emet Schneiderman

MARC MEHLMAN'S Family

1.Beryl/Baruch Mehlman -m- Leah???
2. Harry/Zvi Mehlman
3. ???Mehlman -m- ???Robinson
4. Marc Mehlman b, Toledo, Ohio, circa 1960

ANGELA KIRBY'S Family

1. Ichil-Mechil Mehlman (anglicised Mark Harris) -m- Fanny Berkovitz
2. Rebecca (Betty) Harris -m- (Danny) Waterman
3. Shirley Waterman -m- Stanley Kirby
4. Angela Kirby

By way of further info, my great grandfather (Ichil Mechel Mehlman/Mark
Harris) had several brothers and sisters:-

Fannie Mehlman -m- Harry Strumwasser/Strumwater and emigrated to Baltimore via Southampton in 1904. I am in contact with some of their great grandchildren in Baltimore.

Ida Mehlman -m- ???Goldberg and had two sons; Abe and Harry. They settled in Toledo, Ohio but moved to Las Vegas. Abe's son Mark now lives in Las Vegas.

There is also another brother (Abe Mehlman) and sister (Rose Mehlman) of my great grandfather, but can find no record of what happened to them, but have asked the family in Baltimore if they know.
BOB ALEXANDER's family

BENJAMIN MEHLMAN--b.1842, Kishinev d. 1907 Kherson

MORRIS MEHLMAN [b. 1871, KHERSON--d.1937, Toledo OH]
married
DORA BELSKY [b. 1873, ukraine -- d. 1931, Toledo]



??? MEHLMAN [brother of MORRIS] immigrated to Detroit, 1890s
MORRIS immigrated to Detroit solo via Turkey in about 1900. DORA and
children came via Germany to Detroit in 1905-6. Family moved to
Toledo in 1910.


MORRIS claimed to have a blood relationship with a SOKOLOV family living in NIKOLAEV, Ukraine.

Known members of that family are ALEXANDRA LVOVNA SOKOLOVSKAYA [b. 1880],
her brother ILYA, and her sister MARYA. Their close friend in nikolaev--i
have a studio photograph--was a man identified as DR. ZVI.

ALEXANDRA had two daughters in 1900-2: ZINAIDA BRONSTEIN and NINA
BRONSTEIN. One of them married a VOLKHOV and had two sons named
SIEVA [ESTEBAN] VOLKHOV and LEVA VOLKHOV, both born in Russia and both
brought up in Mexico. Their sister, ALEXANDRA VOLKHOV, remained in the
Soviet Union all her life and died in 1958



Continuing MORRIS's children: ISADORE MEHLMAN b. kherson, 1894 d. Toledo ???

ANNA MEHLMAN b. Kherson, 1896. m. JOSEPH GROSS. D.TOLEDO ??

SADA MEHLMAN [b. Kherson, 1898, raised in Toledo . 1922 m. Alex
Ginsburg [b. 1895 Johnstown PA d. Los Angeles 1992]. Sada died
in Seal Beach CA 1985

LOUIS MEHLMAN [b. Kherson, 1900. d. Chicago

CHARLES MEHLMAN [b. Toledo, about 1907. m. JEAN CHARLTON, 1943. d. Menlo
Park CA 1987]

HARRY MEHLMAN [b. Toledo. about 1909 d. Washington DC 1945]


There seems to be a Toledo, Ohio connection among these different Mehlmans.
It is interesting that the name Mark has been passed down through the
generations.

Another connection might be mathematics. MARC is a math professor and
CHARLES and HARRY were insurance actuaries.

Hope someone else out there might be able to provide some more information.

Best regards,


Angela Kirby jointly with bob alexander of washington state

tracing MEHLMAN, SOKOLOV, VOLKHOV, BRONSTEIN iRussia , esp. KHERSON,
NIKOLAEV, KISHINEV, ODESSA . Also searching VOLKOV and VOLKHOV in Mexico.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Mehlman-Goldberg in Toledo and LasV egas plus Sokolov and Volkhov from Nikolaev and Mexico #ukraine

Bob <rjalexand@...>
 

Dear List -- four of us MEHLMAN progeny are comparing notes. no hits so far.
here's where we stand, thanks to the collecting efforts of angela kirby.

readers please examine the names to see if any fit into your scope:

EMET SCHNEIDERMAN'S Family

1. Ichil-Mechil Mehlman
2. Beryl/Baruch Mehlman -m- Leah???
3. Harry/Zvi Mehlman -m- Minnie Breitman
4. Ben Mehlman, Harriet Mehlman -m- ???Schneiderman, ????Mehlman -m-
???Robinson
5. Emet Schneiderman

MARC MEHLMAN'S Family

1.Beryl/Baruch Mehlman -m- Leah???
2. Harry/Zvi Mehlman
3. ???Mehlman -m- ???Robinson
4. Marc Mehlman b, Toledo, Ohio, circa 1960

ANGELA KIRBY'S Family

1. Ichil-Mechil Mehlman (anglicised Mark Harris) -m- Fanny Berkovitz
2. Rebecca (Betty) Harris -m- (Danny) Waterman
3. Shirley Waterman -m- Stanley Kirby
4. Angela Kirby

By way of further info, my great grandfather (Ichil Mechel Mehlman/Mark
Harris) had several brothers and sisters:-

Fannie Mehlman -m- Harry Strumwasser/Strumwater and emigrated to Baltimore via Southampton in 1904. I am in contact with some of their great grandchildren in Baltimore.

Ida Mehlman -m- ???Goldberg and had two sons; Abe and Harry. They settled in Toledo, Ohio but moved to Las Vegas. Abe's son Mark now lives in Las Vegas.

There is also another brother (Abe Mehlman) and sister (Rose Mehlman) of my great grandfather, but can find no record of what happened to them, but have asked the family in Baltimore if they know.
BOB ALEXANDER's family

BENJAMIN MEHLMAN--b.1842, Kishinev d. 1907 Kherson

MORRIS MEHLMAN [b. 1871, KHERSON--d.1937, Toledo OH]
married
DORA BELSKY [b. 1873, ukraine -- d. 1931, Toledo]



??? MEHLMAN [brother of MORRIS] immigrated to Detroit, 1890s
MORRIS immigrated to Detroit solo via Turkey in about 1900. DORA and
children came via Germany to Detroit in 1905-6. Family moved to
Toledo in 1910.


MORRIS claimed to have a blood relationship with a SOKOLOV family living in NIKOLAEV, Ukraine.

Known members of that family are ALEXANDRA LVOVNA SOKOLOVSKAYA [b. 1880],
her brother ILYA, and her sister MARYA. Their close friend in nikolaev--i
have a studio photograph--was a man identified as DR. ZVI.

ALEXANDRA had two daughters in 1900-2: ZINAIDA BRONSTEIN and NINA
BRONSTEIN. One of them married a VOLKHOV and had two sons named
SIEVA [ESTEBAN] VOLKHOV and LEVA VOLKHOV, both born in Russia and both
brought up in Mexico. Their sister, ALEXANDRA VOLKHOV, remained in the
Soviet Union all her life and died in 1958



Continuing MORRIS's children: ISADORE MEHLMAN b. kherson, 1894 d. Toledo ???

ANNA MEHLMAN b. Kherson, 1896. m. JOSEPH GROSS. D.TOLEDO ??

SADA MEHLMAN [b. Kherson, 1898, raised in Toledo . 1922 m. Alex
Ginsburg [b. 1895 Johnstown PA d. Los Angeles 1992]. Sada died
in Seal Beach CA 1985

LOUIS MEHLMAN [b. Kherson, 1900. d. Chicago

CHARLES MEHLMAN [b. Toledo, about 1907. m. JEAN CHARLTON, 1943. d. Menlo
Park CA 1987]

HARRY MEHLMAN [b. Toledo. about 1909 d. Washington DC 1945]


There seems to be a Toledo, Ohio connection among these different Mehlmans.
It is interesting that the name Mark has been passed down through the
generations.

Another connection might be mathematics. MARC is a math professor and
CHARLES and HARRY were insurance actuaries.

Hope someone else out there might be able to provide some more information.

Best regards,


Angela Kirby jointly with bob alexander of washington state

tracing MEHLMAN, SOKOLOV, VOLKHOV, BRONSTEIN iRussia , esp. KHERSON,
NIKOLAEV, KISHINEV, ODESSA . Also searching VOLKOV and VOLKHOV in Mexico.


Re: MULLNER #southafrica

Brest Family <angi@...>
 

Dear South African Sig

I am trying to help a cousin to find her MULLNER family in SA. She said
they came here in 1885 and had a clothing store. I have lived in
Johanneburg since 1961 but do not ever remember any family of this name.
Can anyone help?

Anne LAPEDUS BREST. ( Ex Dublin, Ireland). Sandton, South Africa..
RESEARCHING: LAPEDUS, Vieksniai, Lithuania. LAPIDUS (all spellings) all
countries, MARCUS, Ackmene, Lithuania, KLAPMAN, Ackmene, Lithuania, KARLIN
Zagera, Lithuania, BREST, Bauska, Latvia. , MIRRELSON , Kourland, Latvia.
ORKIN Zagera, Lithuania. ORKIN Joniskis (Yaneshik) Lithuania. KAHN
Vieksniai , Lithuania. SHILLMAN, Odessa, Russia. NOVGOROD, Yaneshik
(Joniskis), Lithuania.


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: MULLNER #southafrica

Brest Family <angi@...>
 

Dear South African Sig

I am trying to help a cousin to find her MULLNER family in SA. She said
they came here in 1885 and had a clothing store. I have lived in
Johanneburg since 1961 but do not ever remember any family of this name.
Can anyone help?

Anne LAPEDUS BREST. ( Ex Dublin, Ireland). Sandton, South Africa..
RESEARCHING: LAPEDUS, Vieksniai, Lithuania. LAPIDUS (all spellings) all
countries, MARCUS, Ackmene, Lithuania, KLAPMAN, Ackmene, Lithuania, KARLIN
Zagera, Lithuania, BREST, Bauska, Latvia. , MIRRELSON , Kourland, Latvia.
ORKIN Zagera, Lithuania. ORKIN Joniskis (Yaneshik) Lithuania. KAHN
Vieksniai , Lithuania. SHILLMAN, Odessa, Russia. NOVGOROD, Yaneshik
(Joniskis), Lithuania.


Could Lubar be close to Warsaw #warsaw #poland

David Saperstein <dsaperstein@...>
 

I found a possible match in the Ellis Island database for my grandmother =
and her family. There are certain discrepancies, however, one of which is =
that the place of residence is listed as Lubar, Russia. I have always =
been told (but not confirmed) that the family was >from Warsaw. Shtetlseeke=
r was mostly unhelpful. Has anyone heard of Lubar in connection with =
Warsaw? Is it possible that this is a district or neighborhood or am I =
barking up the wrong (family) tree?

David Saperstein


Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Could Lubar be close to Warsaw #warsaw #poland

David Saperstein <dsaperstein@...>
 

I found a possible match in the Ellis Island database for my grandmother =
and her family. There are certain discrepancies, however, one of which is =
that the place of residence is listed as Lubar, Russia. I have always =
been told (but not confirmed) that the family was >from Warsaw. Shtetlseeke=
r was mostly unhelpful. Has anyone heard of Lubar in connection with =
Warsaw? Is it possible that this is a district or neighborhood or am I =
barking up the wrong (family) tree?

David Saperstein