Ellen Korpi writes:

"Is there any way to correlate the Lviv house numbers >from the 1800s
with actual locations to see which houses were in the same
neighborhood?"

The answer is yes, but the research involves a variety of sources,
including taking into account the dates of records.

You can do a surname or house number search with the online directory
for Lwow, published in 1871/2 that shows the correspondence between
the old house numbers and the new street addresses. (This revision
took place in 1871 with many old street names updated.)

It's important to note that street names were revised again during
WWII and it is also possible that house/street renumbering might have
taken place if you want to match a current map. Nevertheless, by
finding the street name and approximate location that corresponds to
an older map, you can study the current map to determine the location.

A very thorough analysis of how to research house numbers and street
addresses in Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg/Lviv is provided by Logan Kleinwaks
here:

http://genealogyindexer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118

You can look up names and addresses in the 1871/72 Lwow Directory
here: http://genealogyindexer.org/frame/d49/272/d

Or go to the home page of GenealogyIndexer here:
http://www.genealogyindexer.org and search for "Lwow 1871." You
need a specific plug-in to view the directories, details are explained
on the site.

The directory is organized by residents on each street and provides
the "Dawny numer" -- the old house number -- which should be what
appears on metrical records and would correspond to a pre-1871
cadastral map. The directory links the new street name and number to
this old house number. (Note that families in Lwow also had an
"ordinal" or family number assigned to them as part of the Lwow Book
of Residents or Evidence Book (available on LDS Microfilm and in the
archives) and that this number is different >from the house number
indicating their place of residence. The Lviv vital records indexed on
the All Galicia Database, which are in Lviv, will have both of these
numbers listed. The JRI Poland records >from AGAD, do not provide
house or ordinal numbers in the indices, but if you view the online
images or the records or order copies, you should find them.

This directory is quite useful in identifying the location based on
old house numbers found in documents. Keep in mind that the fractions
you also see are not apartment numbers, but refer to the districts in
Lwow at that time: 1/4, 4/4, etc. , which refer to: Srodmiescie,
Halickie, Krakowskie, Zolkiewskie, Lyczakowskie. Today, however,
Lviv today is divided into different districts.

Here is one example >from the 1871 directory:

At #5 Ul. Ormianska (which is the street's new name, the old name was
Ul. Uniwersytecka) we find Bach, Abraham Leib. The old house number
listed was #115. So now you've matched the house number to the old
street name and the new street name.

The Gesher Galicia Map Room has several Lviv street maps, but no
cadastral maps showing house numbers yet:
http://maps.geshergalicia.org.

On the Gesher Galicia website, as part of the Lviv House & Street
Photography Project, we have photographed many of these addresses.
Here is the link to this web page where you can read about the project
and scroll down for an alphabetical listings of streets we have
photographed:

http://www.geshergalicia.org/projects/the-lviv-house-and-street-photography-project/

See the Center for Urban History's website for a selection of maps.
Here is the page for Lviv maps:
http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/umd/location/lviv/

This map pertains to your specific question. It is called: "Plan of
the Royal and Capital City of Lwow with Data on New Names of Streets
and Squares."

http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/umd/map/?ci_mapid=126

The Center for Urban History also has details on certain streets in
the Jewish district of Krakowskie, with explanations like the
following which show you the many layers of the city you need to
examine to link old house numbers with various street addresses
throughout the years:

Sianska Street lies in the Halytskyi rayon (district) of the city,
between Khmelnytskoho Street and Lazneva Street. Up to 1871 the street
was known as Synagogi Street, later as Boznicza Street, and, in
1942-1944, as Trodlergasse. Boznicza Street was the main street of the
Jewish district in the Krakowskie przedmiescie (Krakivske peredmistia,
Cracow outer district). >from 1945 the street was known under the name
of Sianska, >from the name of the river Sian (San in Polish). The
original stone pavement of the street is partly preserved, and was
re-laid in 2008.

Here is a link to the page where this information appears:
http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/lia/description/?ci_objectid=231

To make sense of all of this it is helpful to list all the information
about a person or family in an Excel chart, by year and record, to
compare. Some work is involved, but there are enough directories,
maps, documents and resources to determine the exact location (then
and now) for people and residences in Lviv. You can then pinpoint
each house you are researching on a single map to see which family
members lived near each other.

Pamela Weisberger
President, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@...

Ellen Korpi writes:

"Is there any way to correlate the Lviv house numbers >from the 1800s
with actual locations to see which houses were in the same
neighborhood?"

The answer is yes, but the research involves a variety of sources,
including taking into account the dates of records.

You can do a surname or house number search with the online directory
for Lwow, published in 1871/2 that shows the correspondence between
the old house numbers and the new street addresses. (This revision
took place in 1871 with many old street names updated.)

It's important to note that street names were revised again during
WWII and it is also possible that house/street renumbering might have
taken place if you want to match a current map. Nevertheless, by
finding the street name and approximate location that corresponds to
an older map, you can study the current map to determine the location.

A very thorough analysis of how to research house numbers and street
addresses in Lwow/Lvov/Lemberg/Lviv is provided by Logan Kleinwaks
here:

http://genealogyindexer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118

You can look up names and addresses in the 1871/72 Lwow Directory
here: http://genealogyindexer.org/frame/d49/272/d

Or go to the home page of GenealogyIndexer here:
http://www.genealogyindexer.org and search for "Lwow 1871." You
need a specific plug-in to view the directories, details are explained
on the site.

The directory is organized by residents on each street and provides
the "Dawny numer" -- the old house number -- which should be what
appears on metrical records and would correspond to a pre-1871
cadastral map. The directory links the new street name and number to
this old house number. (Note that families in Lwow also had an
"ordinal" or family number assigned to them as part of the Lwow Book
of Residents or Evidence Book (available on LDS Microfilm and in the
archives) and that this number is different >from the house number
indicating their place of residence. The Lviv vital records indexed on
the All Galicia Database, which are in Lviv, will have both of these
numbers listed. The JRI Poland records >from AGAD, do not provide
house or ordinal numbers in the indices, but if you view the online
images or the records or order copies, you should find them.

This directory is quite useful in identifying the location based on
old house numbers found in documents. Keep in mind that the fractions
you also see are not apartment numbers, but refer to the districts in
Lwow at that time: 1/4, 4/4, etc. , which refer to: Srodmiescie,
Halickie, Krakowskie, Zolkiewskie, Lyczakowskie. Today, however,
Lviv today is divided into different districts.

Here is one example >from the 1871 directory:

At #5 Ul. Ormianska (which is the street's new name, the old name was
Ul. Uniwersytecka) we find Bach, Abraham Leib. The old house number
listed was #115. So now you've matched the house number to the old
street name and the new street name.

The Gesher Galicia Map Room has several Lviv street maps, but no
cadastral maps showing house numbers yet:
http://maps.geshergalicia.org.

On the Gesher Galicia website, as part of the Lviv House & Street
Photography Project, we have photographed many of these addresses.
Here is the link to this web page where you can read about the project
and scroll down for an alphabetical listings of streets we have
photographed:

http://www.geshergalicia.org/projects/the-lviv-house-and-street-photography-project/

See the Center for Urban History's website for a selection of maps.
Here is the page for Lviv maps:
http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/umd/location/lviv/

This map pertains to your specific question. It is called: "Plan of
the Royal and Capital City of Lwow with Data on New Names of Streets
and Squares."

http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/umd/map/?ci_mapid=126

The Center for Urban History also has details on certain streets in
the Jewish district of Krakowskie, with explanations like the
following which show you the many layers of the city you need to
examine to link old house numbers with various street addresses
throughout the years:

Sianska Street lies in the Halytskyi rayon (district) of the city,
between Khmelnytskoho Street and Lazneva Street. Up to 1871 the street
was known as Synagogi Street, later as Boznicza Street, and, in
1942-1944, as Trodlergasse. Boznicza Street was the main street of the
Jewish district in the Krakowskie przedmiescie (Krakivske peredmistia,
Cracow outer district). >from 1945 the street was known under the name
of Sianska, >from the name of the river Sian (San in Polish). The
original stone pavement of the street is partly preserved, and was
re-laid in 2008.

Here is a link to the page where this information appears:
http://www.lvivcenter.org/en/lia/description/?ci_objectid=231

To make sense of all of this it is helpful to list all the information
about a person or family in an Excel chart, by year and record, to
compare. Some work is involved, but there are enough directories,
maps, documents and resources to determine the exact location (then
and now) for people and residences in Lviv. You can then pinpoint
each house you are researching on a single map to see which family
members lived near each other.

Pamela Weisberger
President, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@...

Dear Bessarabers,

I will tell you about my personal experience at the conference. You
probably all about Bessarabia related lectures, seminars, SIG Fair, Computer
Workshop, SIG meeting, Bessarabia Luncheon. I have already written about
it. Of course I have participated in all these events... I tried to find
as much material for my own family research, also for our Bessarabia group.
I will post all the material >from our Bessarabia sessions at the website.

You may ask if I found anything new for my family research at the
conference? The answer would be NO.
But I did meet several people who might have information about the place my
family used to live, and possible about my family. I also helped a few
people in their research of their families.

I also was fortunate to see my relative Ala Gamulka with her husband Larry

from Canada. We did not know about each other 6-7 years ago, and only met

BECAUSE of JewishGen - www.JewishGen.org!

For the first time I met Patricia Klindienst and found her lecture "No One
Remembers Alone: Tracing Three Missing Members of a Bessarabian Family" very
informative and wonderfully organized. I liked very much the content and
new ideas of how to conduct your family research. I am looking forward to
go to National Yiddish Library, Amherst , MA where Patricia will have an
exhibit on the same subject.

One thing I want to add - there was a SIG Fair on Sunday, and we had 30-40
people at our Bessarabia booth, where we had a great set of Bessarabia large
maps with a lot of details. These maps are owned by our Bessarabia group,
and will be available at every conference.

I also organized Bessarabia Board meeting... (I will let you more about
Bessarabia Board later), where gathered several of our members who are
project leaders, and active in our group. By the way if you would like to
participate in our Bessarabia Board, please let me know. Warren Blatt and
Abraham Groll >from JewishGen met with our Bessarabia Board and asked us how
JewishGen can help our group.

Did I go to other sessions, not related to Bessarabia? Of course I did. I
went to sessions for which I could not gain any new information for myself,
but I tried to find new research ideas. Because of that I went to Bukovina
BOF meeting. I do have some family lived in Chernovitz after the war, but I
am not researching them. I went to Bukovina meeting , because I know how
well organized is that group. I also went to Galicia SIG meeting. That
group exists for more than 20 years, and they are doing so many wonderful
things for the whole group or just a particular town, that I had to be at
their meeting.

I also did translation for several people... Are you aware that there were
translation services at the conference? It was very well organized and I
think everyone who needed something to translate was able to work with a
translator >from numerous languages.

One other topic was interesting to me - Cemetery Restoration and
Preservation. I see how the cemeteries are held in Bessarabia and hope that
we can do cemetery restoration in many Bessarabian places. I knew Michael
Lozman and Aaron Ginzburg >from prior presentations and hope that something
could be done with old Cemeteries in Vlad Rashkov, Kishinev, Beltsy.

I was invited to be on a panel of a session run by Pamela Weisberger from
Gesher Galicia. That session was fun and was great to help some people in
their question.

I also met my teacher and mentor >from Hebrew College - Yohanan
Petrovskiy-Shtern who made a great presentation about Jews in Russian Army.
I would suggest to you his terrific books on that subject.

Another great part of the conference is to meet new people, and hope that
some of them will become friends. Several people approached me and now we
have 3 new translators for Bessarabia Revision project, one translator for
Yizkor book project, 2 people who will start KehillaLinks websites for towns
in Bessarabia. I also met in a corridor Anna Royzner, a person >from a town
in Ukraine. Before the conference she went to many places in Ukraine to
photograph Jewish places... and one of such towns was Khotin, which used to
be part of Bessarabia. We will soon have at our website her photos >from her
trip. Anna also will volunteer at one of our projects.

Unfortunately at this conference I did not have time to go to movies. I
remember in Washington and Philadelphia conferences I saw a number of
terrific films on Jewish life, Holocaust, Genealogy.

I also missed several sessions I did not have time to go, among them
presentation by Yale Strom, great Klezmer musician and ethnographer,
collector of Jewish Klezmer music in Bessarabia and other regions... sorry
Yale. I did not have time to come to JewishGen presentations on
KehillaLinks and many others.

What else I did? We had good food at the conference... one more thing...
there was an exhibit hall, where I browsed several book sellers, among them
Henry Hollander >from California. I found a number of very interesting book
on Bessarabia at his shelves, bought a book: " The Political Status of
Bessarabia", 1931, Washington with great maps and also list of Jews who
participated in Bessarabia government in 1917-1918 (I never knew their
names).

I think this is already too long posting...

I am looking forward to hear about your experience at the conference.

All the best,
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania.

I posted 5 documents in Cyrillic for which I need your very helpful
assistance -

The documents are >from the Lublin area.

I'd appreciate any assistance with exact dates, names of parents,
spouses including maiden names, occupations, ages, where they came
from, if they were still alive at the time, other relatives etc.

They are on ViewMate at the following addresses:

Birth registration of FRENKEL Szmul Dawid.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28659

Death registration of FRENKEL Dawid.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28660

One of the following should be the Death registration of FRENKEL
Ruchla. I only need the translation of Ruchla's registration:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28661
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28662

Birth registration for WAGNER Liba
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28663

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.

Thank you very much,

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Researching: (FRENK)IEL, GEWIRCMAN, WAGNER, RAJSBAUM, BRONFENBRENER,
SZPILER, RACHMAN/ROJCHMAN all >from the Lublin area

Dear Bessarabers,

I will tell you about my personal experience at the conference. You
probably all about Bessarabia related lectures, seminars, SIG Fair, Computer
Workshop, SIG meeting, Bessarabia Luncheon. I have already written about
it. Of course I have participated in all these events... I tried to find
as much material for my own family research, also for our Bessarabia group.
I will post all the material >from our Bessarabia sessions at the website.

You may ask if I found anything new for my family research at the
conference? The answer would be NO.
But I did meet several people who might have information about the place my
family used to live, and possible about my family. I also helped a few
people in their research of their families.

I also was fortunate to see my relative Ala Gamulka with her husband Larry

from Canada. We did not know about each other 6-7 years ago, and only met

BECAUSE of JewishGen - www.JewishGen.org!

For the first time I met Patricia Klindienst and found her lecture "No One
Remembers Alone: Tracing Three Missing Members of a Bessarabian Family" very
informative and wonderfully organized. I liked very much the content and
new ideas of how to conduct your family research. I am looking forward to
go to National Yiddish Library, Amherst , MA where Patricia will have an
exhibit on the same subject.

One thing I want to add - there was a SIG Fair on Sunday, and we had 30-40
people at our Bessarabia booth, where we had a great set of Bessarabia large
maps with a lot of details. These maps are owned by our Bessarabia group,
and will be available at every conference.

I also organized Bessarabia Board meeting... (I will let you more about
Bessarabia Board later), where gathered several of our members who are
project leaders, and active in our group. By the way if you would like to
participate in our Bessarabia Board, please let me know. Warren Blatt and
Abraham Groll >from JewishGen met with our Bessarabia Board and asked us how
JewishGen can help our group.

Did I go to other sessions, not related to Bessarabia? Of course I did. I
went to sessions for which I could not gain any new information for myself,
but I tried to find new research ideas. Because of that I went to Bukovina
BOF meeting. I do have some family lived in Chernovitz after the war, but I
am not researching them. I went to Bukovina meeting , because I know how
well organized is that group. I also went to Galicia SIG meeting. That
group exists for more than 20 years, and they are doing so many wonderful
things for the whole group or just a particular town, that I had to be at
their meeting.

I also did translation for several people... Are you aware that there were
translation services at the conference? It was very well organized and I
think everyone who needed something to translate was able to work with a
translator >from numerous languages.

One other topic was interesting to me - Cemetery Restoration and
Preservation. I see how the cemeteries are held in Bessarabia and hope that
we can do cemetery restoration in many Bessarabian places. I knew Michael
Lozman and Aaron Ginzburg >from prior presentations and hope that something
could be done with old Cemeteries in Vlad Rashkov, Kishinev, Beltsy.

I was invited to be on a panel of a session run by Pamela Weisberger from
Gesher Galicia. That session was fun and was great to help some people in
their question.

I also met my teacher and mentor >from Hebrew College - Yohanan
Petrovskiy-Shtern who made a great presentation about Jews in Russian Army.
I would suggest to you his terrific books on that subject.

Another great part of the conference is to meet new people, and hope that
some of them will become friends. Several people approached me and now we
have 3 new translators for Bessarabia Revision project, one translator for
Yizkor book project, 2 people who will start KehillaLinks websites for towns
in Bessarabia. I also met in a corridor Anna Royzner, a person >from a town
in Ukraine. Before the conference she went to many places in Ukraine to
photograph Jewish places... and one of such towns was Khotin, which used to
be part of Bessarabia. We will soon have at our website her photos >from her
trip. Anna also will volunteer at one of our projects.

Unfortunately at this conference I did not have time to go to movies. I
remember in Washington and Philadelphia conferences I saw a number of
terrific films on Jewish life, Holocaust, Genealogy.

I also missed several sessions I did not have time to go, among them
presentation by Yale Strom, great Klezmer musician and ethnographer,
collector of Jewish Klezmer music in Bessarabia and other regions... sorry
Yale. I did not have time to come to JewishGen presentations on
KehillaLinks and many others.

What else I did? We had good food at the conference... one more thing...
there was an exhibit hall, where I browsed several book sellers, among them
Henry Hollander >from California. I found a number of very interesting book
on Bessarabia at his shelves, bought a book: " The Political Status of
Bessarabia", 1931, Washington with great maps and also list of Jews who
participated in Bessarabia government in 1917-1918 (I never knew their
names).

I think this is already too long posting...

I am looking forward to hear about your experience at the conference.

All the best,
Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Coordinator
Researching KOGAN, SPIVAK, KHAYMOVICH, SRULEVICH, LEVIT in Kaushany,
Bendery, Tarutino, Akkerman, Kiliya - all in Bessarabia, KHAIMOVICH in
Galatz, Romania.

I posted 5 documents in Cyrillic for which I need your very helpful
assistance -

The documents are >from the Lublin area.

I'd appreciate any assistance with exact dates, names of parents,
spouses including maiden names, occupations, ages, where they came
from, if they were still alive at the time, other relatives etc.

They are on ViewMate at the following addresses:

Birth registration of FRENKEL Szmul Dawid.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28659

Death registration of FRENKEL Dawid.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28660

One of the following should be the Death registration of FRENKEL
Ruchla. I only need the translation of Ruchla's registration:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28661
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28662

Birth registration for WAGNER Liba
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28663

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.

Thank you very much,

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Researching: (FRENK)IEL, GEWIRCMAN, WAGNER, RAJSBAUM, BRONFENBRENER,
SZPILER, RACHMAN/ROJCHMAN all >from the Lublin area

Ellen Korpi asked, "Is there any way to correlate the Lviv house
numbers >from the 1800s with actual locations to see which houses were
in the same neighborhood?"

I previously posted to the Gesher Galicia mailing list detailed
instructions for finding the correspondence between Lwow house numbers
and street addresses in 1871. The post is called, "Re: Galician house
numbers but no street names," Mon, 16 Nov 2009. You can find it by
searching the JewishGen database called "The JewishGen SIG Lists
message Archives." I also posted the instructions at
http://genealogyindexer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=118.

Note that, as shown in that post, it is not generally true that
sequential street addresses correspond to sequential house numbers, or
vice versa.

There might have been renumberings or renamings before or after 1871,
and it would be useful for someone to explore this to determine the
extent to which the 1871 correspondence is valid for other years.

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.

Ellen Korpi asked, "Is there any way to correlate the Lviv house
numbers >from the 1800s with actual locations to see which houses were
in the same neighborhood?"

I previously posted to the Gesher Galicia mailing list detailed
instructions for finding the correspondence between Lwow house numbers
and street addresses in 1871. The post is called, "Re: Galician house
numbers but no street names," Mon, 16 Nov 2009. You can find it by
searching the JewishGen database called "The JewishGen SIG Lists
message Archives." I also posted the instructions at
http://genealogyindexer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=118.

Note that, as shown in that post, it is not generally true that
sequential street addresses correspond to sequential house numbers, or
vice versa.

There might have been renumberings or renamings before or after 1871,
and it would be useful for someone to explore this to determine the
extent to which the 1871 correspondence is valid for other years.

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.

Dear Geners:

I am trying to identify a town which is likely in the Szepes area, listed as
the town of birth for Sali Weiser (nee GRUNBAUM)in the 1869 Hungarian Census.
My best read on it would be P/Bersevitz, but I cannot identify the writing
below that. Sz Co__? Would this town be Berzevice in Saros, Slovakia?

Additionally, her husband is found enumerated here (in Nedecz, Szepes) as
well as in Baldocz, living with his daughter. I would appreciate also an
interpretation of the writing on the rows furthest to the right for both
Jakob and Sali. One may explain why Jakob Weiser was in Baldocz, but not his
wife.

Here is a link to the document:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28478-18352-93?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-H19:218277038
[Moderator Note - shortened URL: http://goo.gl/45pKIk ]

Thank you!
Evan W. Wolfson
Pittsburgh, PA

I've posted a vital record in Polish for which I need a translation. It
is a birth entry of Naftali- the middle record. It is on ViewMate at the
following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28633

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Milton Koch
Bethesda, MD USA
SELZER-Trembowla
KOCH-Jagielnica

Dear Geners:

I am trying to identify a town which is likely in the Szepes area, listed as
the town of birth for Sali Weiser (nee GRUNBAUM)in the 1869 Hungarian Census.
My best read on it would be P/Bersevitz, but I cannot identify the writing
below that. Sz Co__? Would this town be Berzevice in Saros, Slovakia?

Additionally, her husband is found enumerated here (in Nedecz, Szepes) as
well as in Baldocz, living with his daughter. I would appreciate also an
interpretation of the writing on the rows furthest to the right for both
Jakob and Sali. One may explain why Jakob Weiser was in Baldocz, but not his
wife.

Here is a link to the document:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28478-18352-93?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-H19:218277038
[Moderator Note - shortened URL: http://goo.gl/45pKIk ]

Thank you!
Evan W. Wolfson
Pittsburgh, PA

I've posted a vital record in Polish for which I need a translation. It
is a birth entry of Naftali- the middle record. It is on ViewMate at the
following address ...
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28633

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Milton Koch
Bethesda, MD USA
SELZER-Trembowla
KOCH-Jagielnica

Hello,
I had previously inquired, as to what the House #, on Galitian vital
records actually meant.
I received a reply >from Suzan Wynne, author, The Galitzianers: The Jews
of Galicia, 1772-1918, that was so wonderfully insightful, I thought
others would find it helpful also, So with her permission, I post it
to the message boards.

Brian Lehman

"At the most basic level, house numbering was used before streets had
names. The numbering system was chaotic and was not necessarily stable
over time due to fires and tear-downs. You and I might think of
consecutive numbering of houses or buildings on a street as a given but
it didn't work that way. The larger cities had numbered neighborhoods
and, within the boundaries of the neighborhood, was an internal
numbering system. In large places, most people in the city core lived in
apartment complexes built around a courtyard where people strung clothes
lines for the laundry and children played under the watchful eyes of the
residents >from the balcony. Kind of like a modern motel.

The complex was typically entered >from a doorway on the street. >from the
street, you can't tell what is going on behind the door. The door opens
up to an entranceway leading to the courtyard. Typically, each building
has a staircase. Because there were no elevators when these buildings
were put up, they tend to be no higher than three or four floors. But
clinics, hospitals, synagogues and other types of non-residential
buildings also were numbered. If births took place in a clinic or the
home of the midwife, that was the address used. The naming ceremony or
the bris might have taken place in a public place or the home of the
mohel, not the home of the parents. Deaths might have occurred in places
other than home, too. In other words, you collect information about
house numbers but you can't depend on the data to draw firm conclusions.
You might be able to establish a pattern but maybe not.

The house numbers were on a map of the community showing the property
and the name of the owner, not necessarily the resident. These types of
maps were generated for multiple purposes, including property taxes,
census, and mail delivery. The maps are among the material that Gesher
Galicia is working toward making available on a subscription basis. The
maps were revised >from time to time to reflect changes. If there was a
large fire, the house numbers of the burned buildings might be
re-assigned to new buildings elsewhere. Can you imagine the chaos?
Eventually, street names were adopted, first in cities and then in
smaller towns, though, even today, really small places may not have a
street name system."
Suzan Wynne, author, The Galitzianers: The Jews of Galicia, 1772-1918

Hello,
I had previously inquired, as to what the House #, on Galitian vital
records actually meant.
I received a reply >from Suzan Wynne, author, The Galitzianers: The Jews
of Galicia, 1772-1918, that was so wonderfully insightful, I thought
others would find it helpful also, So with her permission, I post it
to the message boards.

Brian Lehman

"At the most basic level, house numbering was used before streets had
names. The numbering system was chaotic and was not necessarily stable
over time due to fires and tear-downs. You and I might think of
consecutive numbering of houses or buildings on a street as a given but
it didn't work that way. The larger cities had numbered neighborhoods
and, within the boundaries of the neighborhood, was an internal
numbering system. In large places, most people in the city core lived in
apartment complexes built around a courtyard where people strung clothes
lines for the laundry and children played under the watchful eyes of the
residents >from the balcony. Kind of like a modern motel.

The complex was typically entered >from a doorway on the street. >from the
street, you can't tell what is going on behind the door. The door opens
up to an entranceway leading to the courtyard. Typically, each building
has a staircase. Because there were no elevators when these buildings
were put up, they tend to be no higher than three or four floors. But
clinics, hospitals, synagogues and other types of non-residential
buildings also were numbered. If births took place in a clinic or the
home of the midwife, that was the address used. The naming ceremony or
the bris might have taken place in a public place or the home of the
mohel, not the home of the parents. Deaths might have occurred in places
other than home, too. In other words, you collect information about
house numbers but you can't depend on the data to draw firm conclusions.
You might be able to establish a pattern but maybe not.

The house numbers were on a map of the community showing the property
and the name of the owner, not necessarily the resident. These types of
maps were generated for multiple purposes, including property taxes,
census, and mail delivery. The maps are among the material that Gesher
Galicia is working toward making available on a subscription basis. The
maps were revised >from time to time to reflect changes. If there was a
large fire, the house numbers of the burned buildings might be
re-assigned to new buildings elsewhere. Can you imagine the chaos?
Eventually, street names were adopted, first in cities and then in
smaller towns, though, even today, really small places may not have a
street name system."
Suzan Wynne, author, The Galitzianers: The Jews of Galicia, 1772-1918

Dear all,

Recently I had my gg grandfather's (Adam Dawid KON) and - gg
grandmother's (Gana Idessa SZTABHOLC) marriage record >from Warsaw 1876
translated >from Russian. There I learned that the parents of Gana
Idessa were Aron Majer STABHOLC and Laja (n=E9e
MAJERSZTRAS/MARIENSZTRAS). In the marriage record >from 1876, it was
stated that Chana was 24 years old. The document was in good
condition, but the handwriting was difficult to read.

Now, recently, I found a birth record of a "Chana Ides SZTABHOLTZ",
born 1855 in Warsaw. Her parents are stated to be "Mosiek SZTABHOLTZ
[...] and Bayla, daughter of Szmul" (no maiden name stated). The
document was written in Polish and was written with a a lot more
readable handwriting.

Gana Idessa is most likely the same name as Chana Ides, but there are
a series of facts that don't match in the docuements: 1) the names of
the parents - Aron Majer vs Mosiek, and Laja vs Bajla, respectively.
2) The age of Chana Ides when she got married to Adam Dawid in 1876,
which should have been 21, not 24.

Could there have been two different Chana Ides SZTABHOLTZ born 3-4
years apart? The surname SZTABHOLTZ/SZTABHOLC was and is quite rare,
so it feels like something has gone wrong in the translation or
writing of the documents.


I would be grateful to get some input on this matter.


My e-mail address is kanski@...

Shavua tov!
Mikael Kanski (KON)
Malm=F6 Sweden

Greetings,

I just posted five documents in Polish I believe on View -Mate:

28682
28681
28680
28679
28675

If anyone could translate them I would be very grateful.
Thank you.
Ramona Mizne

Dear all,

Recently I had my gg grandfather's (Adam Dawid KON) and - gg
grandmother's (Gana Idessa SZTABHOLC) marriage record >from Warsaw 1876
translated >from Russian. There I learned that the parents of Gana
Idessa were Aron Majer STABHOLC and Laja (n=E9e
MAJERSZTRAS/MARIENSZTRAS). In the marriage record >from 1876, it was
stated that Chana was 24 years old. The document was in good
condition, but the handwriting was difficult to read.

Now, recently, I found a birth record of a "Chana Ides SZTABHOLTZ",
born 1855 in Warsaw. Her parents are stated to be "Mosiek SZTABHOLTZ
[...] and Bayla, daughter of Szmul" (no maiden name stated). The
document was written in Polish and was written with a a lot more
readable handwriting.

Gana Idessa is most likely the same name as Chana Ides, but there are
a series of facts that don't match in the docuements: 1) the names of
the parents - Aron Majer vs Mosiek, and Laja vs Bajla, respectively.
2) The age of Chana Ides when she got married to Adam Dawid in 1876,
which should have been 21, not 24.

Could there have been two different Chana Ides SZTABHOLTZ born 3-4
years apart? The surname SZTABHOLTZ/SZTABHOLC was and is quite rare,
so it feels like something has gone wrong in the translation or
writing of the documents.


I would be grateful to get some input on this matter.


My e-mail address is kanski@...

Shavua tov!
Mikael Kanski (KON)
Malm=F6 Sweden

Greetings,

I just posted five documents in Polish I believe on View -Mate:

28682
28681
28680
28679
28675

If anyone could translate them I would be very grateful.
Thank you.
Ramona Mizne

I've posted a postcard in Russian for which I need a direct translation.
The first address below is the actual postcard and the second address is a
"zoom in" of the handwriting on the postcard. Please let me know if
the actual postcard has any writing that would be beneficial to know.
They can be found on ViewMate at the following address ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28618
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28619

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Thank you,
Beverly J Rothman

I've posted a postcard in Russian for which I need a direct translation.
The first address below is the actual postcard and the second address is a
"zoom in" of the handwriting on the postcard. Please let me know if
the actual postcard has any writing that would be beneficial to know.
They can be found on ViewMate at the following address ...

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28618
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM28619

Please respond via the form provided in the ViewMate application.
Thank you very much.

Thank you,
Beverly J Rothman