Date   

Re: FISCHER - STERN #hungary

HungarianRoots
 

Hi John,

The answer is no. Another good source is the indexed civil vital records av=
ailable via MACSE. Let me show you what you can find there if you are a lit=
tle more open. It is a great wealth of information and can prove or disprov=
e things for you.

I have checked the MACSE database for you and Janka was married at least th=
ree times. Married Armin Eisler in 1906, who died in 1907 and Mr Jonas Ster=
n only in 1922 when she was already a widower.
So her son, Bela Somogyi must have been the son of the second husband whose=
identity we have no info about. Maybe the third husband was the brother of=
the second one.

Marriage 1 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6FZS-917?i=3D21=
5&cc=3D1452460
Death of husband 1. https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12344-=
240729-20
Marriage 2.: did not find it. (Reason?: the district they married still may=
not have been indexed)
Marriage 3 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRPS-Y9T?i=3D15=
7&cc=3D1452460
Death of Husband 3 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L87-N9=
C?i=3D35&cc=3D1452460
Janka was still alive when husband 3 died in 1938. And his death was report=
ed by a Bela Stern, who must be identical to the one you mentioned in your=
message.

So the answer is, NO, the Janka Stern you have there (d 1913) is NOT your g=
g-aunt.

Regards,

Karesz Vandor
genealogist/Historian/Private tour guide

Hungarian Roots
web: www.hungarianroots.com
e-mail: info@hungarianroots.com
cell: +36-30-546-6950

You can see our Data Processing Information by clicking here http://www.hun=
garianroots.com/en/impress/ If you do not wish your data to be processed by=
us please send us a message to be removed. By not sending a message you ag=
ree to the above agreement.

This is our World and we only have One. Please consider not printing this e=
-mail thus saving trees and lives. If you need to print use the double-side=
d option.

-----Original Message-----
From: H-SIG [mailto:h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 3:28 PM
To: H-SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: [h-sig] FISCHER - STERN

I am searching for information on a great-great aunt, born Janka FISCHER on=
25 Sep 1878. I have no location except by word of mouth. My grandmother al=
ways said her family was >from Hungary, possibly Budapest. However, I have i=
nformation that her father, Eleazar FISCHER and his first cousin, Jonas FIS=
CHER, were born in Czarny Dunajec which, according to Jewishgen.org Town Fi=
nder, is (now) in Poland but was in the Austrian Empire:
Czarny Dunajec
Nowy Targ
Galicia
Austrian Empire

Janka married Jonas STERN, and the only information I have on him is that h=
e was >from Csernadurnajci, Poland, a place I cannot locate anywhere.

In any event, Janka and Jonas had a son, Bela Somogyi STERN, who was born 1=
7 Sep 1912 in Budapest and died 14 Nov 2002 in Flushing, Queens, NY.

A search of Ancestry for Janka shows me this information >from Find-a-Grave:=


Janka Stern

BIRTH1877
DEATH1913 (aged 35=E2=80=9336)
BURIAL
Kozma Street Jewish Cemetery
Kereszt=C3=BArid=C5=B1l=C5=91, K=C5=91b=C3=A1nya, Budapest, Hungary Add to =
Map PLOTSection 37, Row 14, Grave 39 MEMORIAL ID168213852 =C2=B7 View Sourc=
e

Could this be my gg-aunt? Where else can I turn for information?

John Anderson,
Orlando, FL

Moderator: Please continue this discussion off-list unless information will be of
general interest.


Re: New oroklet website #hungary

HungarianRoots
 

1. use the old version as it is much better to navigate through.
2. The login name and password of the old site are still valid and can be
used on the new version.


Regards,

Karesz Vandor
genealogist/Historian/Private tour guide

Hungarian Roots
web: www.hungarianroots.com
e-mail: info@hungarianroots.com
cell: +36-30-546-6950


Re: new oroklet website #hungary

tom
 

my apologies for posting an incorrect url (although it didn't seem to deter very
many of you) - i was interrupted before testing it, as i should have done. the
corrected link is <http://www.oroklet.hu/>.

....... tom klein, toronto

tomk@ecologicaltech.com wrote:

the oroklet website, <http://www.ororklet.hu/>, has been given a facelift.

[snip!]


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: FISCHER - STERN #hungary

HungarianRoots
 

Hi John,

The answer is no. Another good source is the indexed civil vital records av=
ailable via MACSE. Let me show you what you can find there if you are a lit=
tle more open. It is a great wealth of information and can prove or disprov=
e things for you.

I have checked the MACSE database for you and Janka was married at least th=
ree times. Married Armin Eisler in 1906, who died in 1907 and Mr Jonas Ster=
n only in 1922 when she was already a widower.
So her son, Bela Somogyi must have been the son of the second husband whose=
identity we have no info about. Maybe the third husband was the brother of=
the second one.

Marriage 1 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6FZS-917?i=3D21=
5&cc=3D1452460
Death of husband 1. https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12344-=
240729-20
Marriage 2.: did not find it. (Reason?: the district they married still may=
not have been indexed)
Marriage 3 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRPS-Y9T?i=3D15=
7&cc=3D1452460
Death of Husband 3 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L87-N9=
C?i=3D35&cc=3D1452460
Janka was still alive when husband 3 died in 1938. And his death was report=
ed by a Bela Stern, who must be identical to the one you mentioned in your=
message.

So the answer is, NO, the Janka Stern you have there (d 1913) is NOT your g=
g-aunt.

Regards,

Karesz Vandor
genealogist/Historian/Private tour guide

Hungarian Roots
web: www.hungarianroots.com
e-mail: info@hungarianroots.com
cell: +36-30-546-6950

You can see our Data Processing Information by clicking here http://www.hun=
garianroots.com/en/impress/ If you do not wish your data to be processed by=
us please send us a message to be removed. By not sending a message you ag=
ree to the above agreement.

This is our World and we only have One. Please consider not printing this e=
-mail thus saving trees and lives. If you need to print use the double-side=
d option.

-----Original Message-----
From: H-SIG [mailto:h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 3:28 PM
To: H-SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: [h-sig] FISCHER - STERN

I am searching for information on a great-great aunt, born Janka FISCHER on=
25 Sep 1878. I have no location except by word of mouth. My grandmother al=
ways said her family was >from Hungary, possibly Budapest. However, I have i=
nformation that her father, Eleazar FISCHER and his first cousin, Jonas FIS=
CHER, were born in Czarny Dunajec which, according to Jewishgen.org Town Fi=
nder, is (now) in Poland but was in the Austrian Empire:
Czarny Dunajec
Nowy Targ
Galicia
Austrian Empire

Janka married Jonas STERN, and the only information I have on him is that h=
e was >from Csernadurnajci, Poland, a place I cannot locate anywhere.

In any event, Janka and Jonas had a son, Bela Somogyi STERN, who was born 1=
7 Sep 1912 in Budapest and died 14 Nov 2002 in Flushing, Queens, NY.

A search of Ancestry for Janka shows me this information >from Find-a-Grave:=


Janka Stern

BIRTH1877
DEATH1913 (aged 35=E2=80=9336)
BURIAL
Kozma Street Jewish Cemetery
Kereszt=C3=BArid=C5=B1l=C5=91, K=C5=91b=C3=A1nya, Budapest, Hungary Add to =
Map PLOTSection 37, Row 14, Grave 39 MEMORIAL ID168213852 =C2=B7 View Sourc=
e

Could this be my gg-aunt? Where else can I turn for information?

John Anderson,
Orlando, FL

Moderator: Please continue this discussion off-list unless information will be of
general interest.


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: New oroklet website #hungary

HungarianRoots
 

1. use the old version as it is much better to navigate through.
2. The login name and password of the old site are still valid and can be
used on the new version.


Regards,

Karesz Vandor
genealogist/Historian/Private tour guide

Hungarian Roots
web: www.hungarianroots.com
e-mail: info@hungarianroots.com
cell: +36-30-546-6950


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: new oroklet website #hungary

tom
 

my apologies for posting an incorrect url (although it didn't seem to deter very
many of you) - i was interrupted before testing it, as i should have done. the
corrected link is <http://www.oroklet.hu/>.

....... tom klein, toronto

tomk@ecologicaltech.com wrote:

the oroklet website, <http://www.ororklet.hu/>, has been given a facelift.

[snip!]


Searching for Michael Anthony PICARD #unitedkingdom

Ruth & Bruce Lynn <lynn33@...>
 

Hello,

I'm searching for a "lost" cousin, Michael Anthony PICARD, who was born
in England in 1947. His parents were Claus Wolfgang PICARD and (Hilde)
Inge(borg) GROSSMAN, both born in Berlin. They lived in Welwyn Gardens
and Bramley, Leeds, UK in the 1950's. Claus's parents (Michael Anthony's
grandparents), Dr. Ernst Jacob PICARD and (Minna) Edith Eva RUSS, lived
in London in the 1950's. Inge's parents, Dr. Fritz GROSSMAN and Gertrud
Paula FRANK, lived in New York City. Claus's brother, Heinz Hellmuth
PICARD, lived in Tel Aviv. Inge's brothers Herbert Otto GROSSMAN and
Helmut/Henry GROSSMAN, lived in Newark, NJ and Englewood, NJ.

Michael's grandparents, Dr. Ernst Jacob PICARD and (Minna) Edith Eva RUSS,
escaped >from Berlin to Palestine in 1935, and later moved to England.
Edith was my father's cousin. What she never knew was that her sister,
Charlotte Henriette RUSS HEILFRON, managed to escape >from Berlin to
Ireland, where she and her family lived out their lives in Dublin. Their
only living brother, (Wolfgang) Guenter RUSS, committed suicide during or
after his 1943 deportation >from Berlin. Each sister thought that she was
the only surviving family member.

I have recently re-connected with Charlotte's granddaughter in Ireland.
She had no idea that she had close cousins in the UK and the US. But I
have been unable to trace Michael Anthony PICARD, other than two passenger
records for 1947 and 1951 voyages >from England, with his mother, to visit
her parents in New York.

If this story, or any of these names sound familiar to you, please reply
privately.

Thanks very much.

Ruth Nadelman Lynn
Lexington, MA


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Searching for Michael Anthony PICARD #unitedkingdom

Ruth & Bruce Lynn <lynn33@...>
 

Hello,

I'm searching for a "lost" cousin, Michael Anthony PICARD, who was born
in England in 1947. His parents were Claus Wolfgang PICARD and (Hilde)
Inge(borg) GROSSMAN, both born in Berlin. They lived in Welwyn Gardens
and Bramley, Leeds, UK in the 1950's. Claus's parents (Michael Anthony's
grandparents), Dr. Ernst Jacob PICARD and (Minna) Edith Eva RUSS, lived
in London in the 1950's. Inge's parents, Dr. Fritz GROSSMAN and Gertrud
Paula FRANK, lived in New York City. Claus's brother, Heinz Hellmuth
PICARD, lived in Tel Aviv. Inge's brothers Herbert Otto GROSSMAN and
Helmut/Henry GROSSMAN, lived in Newark, NJ and Englewood, NJ.

Michael's grandparents, Dr. Ernst Jacob PICARD and (Minna) Edith Eva RUSS,
escaped >from Berlin to Palestine in 1935, and later moved to England.
Edith was my father's cousin. What she never knew was that her sister,
Charlotte Henriette RUSS HEILFRON, managed to escape >from Berlin to
Ireland, where she and her family lived out their lives in Dublin. Their
only living brother, (Wolfgang) Guenter RUSS, committed suicide during or
after his 1943 deportation >from Berlin. Each sister thought that she was
the only surviving family member.

I have recently re-connected with Charlotte's granddaughter in Ireland.
She had no idea that she had close cousins in the UK and the US. But I
have been unable to trace Michael Anthony PICARD, other than two passenger
records for 1947 and 1951 voyages >from England, with his mother, to visit
her parents in New York.

If this story, or any of these names sound familiar to you, please reply
privately.

Thanks very much.

Ruth Nadelman Lynn
Lexington, MA


Re: Landsmanschaftn Records #lithuania

Ann Rabinowitz
 

The Kupiskis Kehilalinks site has a section which identifies where
to find landsmannschaftn records in New York and has pictures of
the resources:

https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/kupiskis/nylandsman.htm

YIVO in New York has also published a Landsmannschaftn directory and
they have info on the groups. "Guide to YIVO's Landsmannschaftn
Collection," which has 1,380 organizations listed and "A Guide
to the YIVO Archives".

Ann Rabinowitz
arabinow@bellsouth.net


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania RE: Landsmanschaftn Records #lithuania

Ann Rabinowitz
 

The Kupiskis Kehilalinks site has a section which identifies where
to find landsmannschaftn records in New York and has pictures of
the resources:

https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/kupiskis/nylandsman.htm

YIVO in New York has also published a Landsmannschaftn directory and
they have info on the groups. "Guide to YIVO's Landsmannschaftn
Collection," which has 1,380 organizations listed and "A Guide
to the YIVO Archives".

Ann Rabinowitz
arabinow@bellsouth.net


Request for Translation Assistance - link correction #poland

Rick Zeckel <rz7923@...>
 

On Monday of this week I submitted a request for assistance in
translating some documents I received that be related to my
great-grandfather Szymon Moszek Kaufman. Unfortunately, the link I
provided did not take anyone to the right place, and for that I
apologize. Chalk it up to ignorance. In any event, below is a link
that should take you t0 the ViewMate Image Gallery site where they can
be found. For those who have not been to that page before, you will
find a multitude of images. The four specific images I am interested
in are labeled VM69507, VM 69510, VM 69511, and VM 69506. As before,
any assistance you can provide would be appreciated.

Below are the correct and direct links:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69507
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69510
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69511
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69506

--
Rick Zeckel
rz7923@gmail.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately or on the Viewmate form.


JRI Poland #Poland Request for Translation Assistance - link correction #poland

Rick Zeckel <rz7923@...>
 

On Monday of this week I submitted a request for assistance in
translating some documents I received that be related to my
great-grandfather Szymon Moszek Kaufman. Unfortunately, the link I
provided did not take anyone to the right place, and for that I
apologize. Chalk it up to ignorance. In any event, below is a link
that should take you t0 the ViewMate Image Gallery site where they can
be found. For those who have not been to that page before, you will
find a multitude of images. The four specific images I am interested
in are labeled VM69507, VM 69510, VM 69511, and VM 69506. As before,
any assistance you can provide would be appreciated.

Below are the correct and direct links:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69507
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69510
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69511
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM69506

--
Rick Zeckel
rz7923@gmail.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately or on the Viewmate form.


the given name BER #poland

mkaplan27
 

I have an Ellis Island manifest showing Ber SARAPIN arriving in 1913 from
Gorodok, Russia. He apparently went to my grandfather, Charles SARAPIN.

I can find no other record for this person.

What name might "BER" have been transformed to?

-Michael


SEARCHING: KAPLAN and FISH (Brest and Divin, Belarus), MANCZYK (Gombin,
Poland), KRIEGER (Ramygala, Lithuania), SARAPIN (Bialystok, Poland)


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland the given name BER #poland

mkaplan27
 

I have an Ellis Island manifest showing Ber SARAPIN arriving in 1913 from
Gorodok, Russia. He apparently went to my grandfather, Charles SARAPIN.

I can find no other record for this person.

What name might "BER" have been transformed to?

-Michael


SEARCHING: KAPLAN and FISH (Brest and Divin, Belarus), MANCZYK (Gombin,
Poland), KRIEGER (Ramygala, Lithuania), SARAPIN (Bialystok, Poland)


Re: DNA and Rabbinical Descent #rabbinic

rayvenna@...
 

Chaim,

Would you mind sharing more details about your methodology of
demonstrating relationships via DNA? How many documented descendants
have been tested? How closely are the documented tested people related
to each other? Are you using multiple people >from each family? I would
love to hear more about your fascinating work!

Thanks,
Mindie Kaplan

----- Original Message -----

In response to Phillip Minden, yes it is possible to prove descent from
people who lived hundreds of years ago, as explained in my article at
http://eliyahusbranches.blogspot.com/2018/08/genetic-master-list-for-relatives-of.html
That is using a full autosomal test, not just Y chromosome, and in
combination with the "Paper Trail".

Chaim Freedman


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: DNA and Rabbinical Descent #rabbinic

rayvenna@...
 

Chaim,

Would you mind sharing more details about your methodology of
demonstrating relationships via DNA? How many documented descendants
have been tested? How closely are the documented tested people related
to each other? Are you using multiple people >from each family? I would
love to hear more about your fascinating work!

Thanks,
Mindie Kaplan

----- Original Message -----

In response to Phillip Minden, yes it is possible to prove descent from
people who lived hundreds of years ago, as explained in my article at
http://eliyahusbranches.blogspot.com/2018/08/genetic-master-list-for-relatives-of.html
That is using a full autosomal test, not just Y chromosome, and in
combination with the "Paper Trail".

Chaim Freedman


Descent of Historic Epstein and Horowitz Families #rabbinic

Paul Berman
 

I know that there isn't full agreement as to the common descent of the
historic Epstein and Horowitz Families (both Leviiim), but is there
any strong evidence as to whether both, or either, are in fact
descended >from Aharon and Pinchas Benvenisti of Barcelona - 13th
century?
G'mar chatima tova - May you all be inscribed for a good New Year.
Irene Berman
Israel


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Descent of Historic Epstein and Horowitz Families #rabbinic

Paul Berman
 

I know that there isn't full agreement as to the common descent of the
historic Epstein and Horowitz Families (both Leviiim), but is there
any strong evidence as to whether both, or either, are in fact
descended >from Aharon and Pinchas Benvenisti of Barcelona - 13th
century?
G'mar chatima tova - May you all be inscribed for a good New Year.
Irene Berman
Israel


Re: Samuel OPPENHEIMER-HEIDELBERG (died Vienna 1703) #germany

Ralph Baer
 

David Dubin wrote in part:
Ralph Baer amazingly remembered a source >from work he did 30 years ago,
demonstrating that Sandela was not the mother of most of Samuel's children.

I have looked at that document much more recently than that and inserted a
translation of parts of it (not the part about Samuel OPPENHEIMER) into my
own genealogy. It just was that long since I paid attention to the dates
since Samuel was not an ancestor. I am, however, descended >from the
OPPENHEIMERs of Heidelberg, so he is a relative.

He also wrote:
Mr Baer is indeed grandson of hers, but with her first husband Moses Abraham
ASTRUC.

I am getting old faster than I thought. :-) She was actually a
7th-great-grandmother.

Ralph N. Baer Washington DC RalphNBaer@aol.com


German SIG #Germany Re: Samuel OPPENHEIMER-HEIDELBERG (died Vienna 1703) #germany

Ralph Baer
 

David Dubin wrote in part:
Ralph Baer amazingly remembered a source >from work he did 30 years ago,
demonstrating that Sandela was not the mother of most of Samuel's children.

I have looked at that document much more recently than that and inserted a
translation of parts of it (not the part about Samuel OPPENHEIMER) into my
own genealogy. It just was that long since I paid attention to the dates
since Samuel was not an ancestor. I am, however, descended >from the
OPPENHEIMERs of Heidelberg, so he is a relative.

He also wrote:
Mr Baer is indeed grandson of hers, but with her first husband Moses Abraham
ASTRUC.

I am getting old faster than I thought. :-) She was actually a
7th-great-grandmother.

Ralph N. Baer Washington DC RalphNBaer@aol.com

36881 - 36900 of 659804