Date   

Re: Where is Montefiori, Argentina? #latinamerica

Carlos Glikson
 

Carol Rombro Rider wrote that
I am researching family that were born near Ceres, Santa Fe Province,
Argentina. They were born in a place called Montefiori. Can someone
tell me where exactly this is located and was there a Jewish community
living there in the early part of the 1900's?
I am copying below two mails I sent to the JewishGen Discussion Group four
years ago.

I have not checked for updated information. Hope this helps.

Carlos Glikson
-------------------------------------
From: Carlos Glikson
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Cc: Marty Meyers
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: Colonia Montefiore--what was it?


Marty Meyers asked about what the "Colonia Montefiore" was. It was indeed an
agricultural colony, 15 km >from Ceres in straight line (28 by car), in the
9 de Julio Department, mid to North Western sector of the Argentine province
of Santa Fe. There are no paved roads reaching Montefiore, no buses, and no
hotel to stay overnight. You must drive >from Ceres, where there is bedding.
It is better to drive by day, and not to do so if it has rained on the night
before...

According to Shalom Argentina - "Tracing Jewish Settlement", a guide to the
colony circuit, Colonia Montefiore was established by the Jewish
Colonization Association of Baron Maurice de Hirsch - one of the latest
colonies to be founded (1912).

In 1914 there was a great flood, and five years later 140 families remained
of the 208 at the time of the flood. Yiddish was spoken, and many of the
natives farmhands learned Yiddish expressions before the settlers learned
Spanish. Montefiore grew to have three bilingual schools, five synagogues
and two libraries in the 1940s. It has a few hundred inhabitants today, none
of them Jewish. Many sons and grandsons of pioneers emigrated to the greater
cities in the province, such as Rosario and Santa Fe, or to the national
capital, Buenos Aires. Some descendants
still administer the farms, but moved to the cities or nearby towns.

Marty mentioned relatives leaving Poland prior to WW II. The section in the
book mentions fifteen families arriving >from Poland, Czechoslovakia and
Rumania shortly before WW II. The last group of new settlers arrived in May
1940 under the JCA on board the French ship Florida. With prosperity in the
1950s came depopulation, with settleres moving >from the farms to town.

The only record of burials that survived the floods is kept at City Hall, is
very incomplete, and lists burials for 1942-1962. The cemetery has only 5
rows of graves. The book gives a phone for a contact, Ricardo Colombo, in
City Hall in relation to coordinating visits to the cemetery, calling
earlier than 1 PM. It also mentions you may ask for Ricardo at the town bar
after hours, or at home!. I can't post the phones but I can mail the phone
numbers privately.

Hope this helps,

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires
-----------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Glikson
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: Colonia Montefiore--what was it?


I may add a clarification to the sources quoted, but it does not clear the
conflicting information on when Montefiore was really founded.

"History of the Argentinean Jews" by Ricardo Feierstein, published by
Planeta, Buenos Aires, 1993, mentions

- pg. 102. There is a list for Colonies established between 1905 and 1914.
It includes Montefiore
(source: Abraham Gabis, quoted by Jose Liebermann in "Los judios en
Argentina, Editorial Libra, Buenos Aires, 1955).

- pg. 104. Montefiore is mentioned as established in 1902, over an area of
29,075 ha

- pg. 411 The Chronology mentions Montefiore as established in 1902

The sources for info in pg. 104 are an unspecified combination of data from
the Jewish Colonization Association and >from Boleslao Lewin. Apparently, the
dates were taken >from Lewin's work, and the areas in hectares >from JCA
official data.

Lewin's data in page 144 of "Como fue la inmigracion judia en Argentina",
Editorial Plus Ultra, Buenos Aires (second edition, 1983) also mentions
1902.

A search on-line for other data did not help in gaining precision, since
data on-line seems to copy the sources already quoted here. There is a
mention to foundation previous to 1908, though, which also contrasts with
the 1912 info in Shalom Argentina - "Tracing Jewish Settlement", the guide
to the colony circuit I mentioned in my original mail yesterday.

For those interested, perhaps the official info may be required at the
Commune of Colonia Montefiore itself. The eMail in official sources is
mentioned as

comunademontefiore@arnet.com.ar

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires, Argentina


Latin America #LatinAmerica Re: Where is Montefiori, Argentina? #latinamerica

Carlos Glikson
 

Carol Rombro Rider wrote that
I am researching family that were born near Ceres, Santa Fe Province,
Argentina. They were born in a place called Montefiori. Can someone
tell me where exactly this is located and was there a Jewish community
living there in the early part of the 1900's?
I am copying below two mails I sent to the JewishGen Discussion Group four
years ago.

I have not checked for updated information. Hope this helps.

Carlos Glikson
-------------------------------------
From: Carlos Glikson
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Cc: Marty Meyers
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: Colonia Montefiore--what was it?


Marty Meyers asked about what the "Colonia Montefiore" was. It was indeed an
agricultural colony, 15 km >from Ceres in straight line (28 by car), in the
9 de Julio Department, mid to North Western sector of the Argentine province
of Santa Fe. There are no paved roads reaching Montefiore, no buses, and no
hotel to stay overnight. You must drive >from Ceres, where there is bedding.
It is better to drive by day, and not to do so if it has rained on the night
before...

According to Shalom Argentina - "Tracing Jewish Settlement", a guide to the
colony circuit, Colonia Montefiore was established by the Jewish
Colonization Association of Baron Maurice de Hirsch - one of the latest
colonies to be founded (1912).

In 1914 there was a great flood, and five years later 140 families remained
of the 208 at the time of the flood. Yiddish was spoken, and many of the
natives farmhands learned Yiddish expressions before the settlers learned
Spanish. Montefiore grew to have three bilingual schools, five synagogues
and two libraries in the 1940s. It has a few hundred inhabitants today, none
of them Jewish. Many sons and grandsons of pioneers emigrated to the greater
cities in the province, such as Rosario and Santa Fe, or to the national
capital, Buenos Aires. Some descendants
still administer the farms, but moved to the cities or nearby towns.

Marty mentioned relatives leaving Poland prior to WW II. The section in the
book mentions fifteen families arriving >from Poland, Czechoslovakia and
Rumania shortly before WW II. The last group of new settlers arrived in May
1940 under the JCA on board the French ship Florida. With prosperity in the
1950s came depopulation, with settleres moving >from the farms to town.

The only record of burials that survived the floods is kept at City Hall, is
very incomplete, and lists burials for 1942-1962. The cemetery has only 5
rows of graves. The book gives a phone for a contact, Ricardo Colombo, in
City Hall in relation to coordinating visits to the cemetery, calling
earlier than 1 PM. It also mentions you may ask for Ricardo at the town bar
after hours, or at home!. I can't post the phones but I can mail the phone
numbers privately.

Hope this helps,

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires
-----------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Glikson
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: Colonia Montefiore--what was it?


I may add a clarification to the sources quoted, but it does not clear the
conflicting information on when Montefiore was really founded.

"History of the Argentinean Jews" by Ricardo Feierstein, published by
Planeta, Buenos Aires, 1993, mentions

- pg. 102. There is a list for Colonies established between 1905 and 1914.
It includes Montefiore
(source: Abraham Gabis, quoted by Jose Liebermann in "Los judios en
Argentina, Editorial Libra, Buenos Aires, 1955).

- pg. 104. Montefiore is mentioned as established in 1902, over an area of
29,075 ha

- pg. 411 The Chronology mentions Montefiore as established in 1902

The sources for info in pg. 104 are an unspecified combination of data from
the Jewish Colonization Association and >from Boleslao Lewin. Apparently, the
dates were taken >from Lewin's work, and the areas in hectares >from JCA
official data.

Lewin's data in page 144 of "Como fue la inmigracion judia en Argentina",
Editorial Plus Ultra, Buenos Aires (second edition, 1983) also mentions
1902.

A search on-line for other data did not help in gaining precision, since
data on-line seems to copy the sources already quoted here. There is a
mention to foundation previous to 1908, though, which also contrasts with
the 1912 info in Shalom Argentina - "Tracing Jewish Settlement", the guide
to the colony circuit I mentioned in my original mail yesterday.

For those interested, perhaps the official info may be required at the
Commune of Colonia Montefiore itself. The eMail in official sources is
mentioned as

comunademontefiore@arnet.com.ar

Carlos Glikson
Buenos Aires, Argentina


VM 9698 Arabic/Tatar & English Tombstone (Two bodies?) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Assistance please, as to your knowledge of burial customs.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9698

Tombstone is in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA.
Date of birth Dec 18, 1913 - date of death Nov 2, 1916.

Two names are on stone. It doesn't appear likely that twins would be born on the
same day and die on the same day three years later.
Any ideas ?
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VM 9698 Arabic/Tatar & English Tombstone (Two bodies?) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Assistance please, as to your knowledge of burial customs.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9698

Tombstone is in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA.
Date of birth Dec 18, 1913 - date of death Nov 2, 1916.

Two names are on stone. It doesn't appear likely that twins would be born on the
same day and die on the same day three years later.
Any ideas ?
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


VM 9700 Arabic/Tatar Tombstone - Anything legible ? (Image 1240) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation assistance please.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9700

Circa 1907 - 1930

Tombstone is in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA.
Even partial names or dates would help.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VM 9700 Arabic/Tatar Tombstone - Anything legible ? (Image 1240) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation assistance please.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9700

Circa 1907 - 1930

Tombstone is in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA.
Even partial names or dates would help.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


VM 9697 Arabic (top of tombstone) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation requested, please.
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9697

This is probably top of tombstone VM 9696 (cyrillic)

Tombstone in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA. circa 1920's.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VM 9697 Arabic (top of tombstone) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation requested, please.
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9697

This is probably top of tombstone VM 9696 (cyrillic)

Tombstone in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA. circa 1920's.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.

They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns
of Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

Respond privately/directly to me.

Sincerely,
Edward Potereiko
Colorado Springs, CO
edwardp@writeme.com


VM9696 - (cyrillic) tombstone (Image 1233) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation requested, please. Respond privately/directly to me.
Tombstone in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA. circa 1920's.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.
They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns of
Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct URL of the image is
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9696


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VM9696 - (cyrillic) tombstone (Image 1233) #general

Edward Potereiko <edwardp@...>
 

Translation requested, please. Respond privately/directly to me.
Tombstone in Maple Grove Cemetery, Queens, New York, USA. circa 1920's.
My (Polish, Tartar, Moslem, and/or Turkish) ancestors who lived among
Jewish people and at times intermarried.
They are >from areas that today are Belarusia, Poland, Lithuania, towns of
Wilno, Lida, Ivye and the like.

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct URL of the image is
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9696


JGSPBCI, FL, April Membership Meeting Notice #general

Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
 

Jewish Genealogical Society Palm Beach County, Inc., FL., USA
Please read our website:
http://www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org

Jewish Genealogy Month 2007- March 20-April 18 (Nisan 5767), and Yad Vashem
Names Recovery Month: March-April 2007

Membership meeting: Wednesday, April 11, 2007
Where: South County Civic Center, 16700 Jog Road, Delray Beach, FL
Time: [Please note: SIG will not be held this month]
12:30 PM Brick Wall
Questions will be accepted >from the floor. For further
information about the Brick Wall program or to submit questions in
advance, e-mail Program Chairperson Harvey Brown: tobro4@adelphia.net

1:00 PM Program and brief business meeting

Guest Speaker: Ron Arons
Lecture topic: "The Internet, Beyond Steve Morse and Jewishgen."
The presentation will demonstrate other "best bet" websites that allow
researchers to find many other materials online, including historical
documents, newspapers and articles, living people, maps and photos, foreign
language translators and aids, and more. He provides numerous examples of
how to make the internet work.

Mr. Arons has earned degrees >from Princeton University and the University of
Chicago. He is a member of both the Los Angeles and San Francisco Jewish
Genealogical Societies. As a seasoned genealogist, he has traced his roots
to England, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania. He has given
presentations at the International Association of Jewish Genealogical
Society's annual conferences as well as to local Jewish Genealogical
societies across the country. He has published articles in Avotaynu, the
leading Jewish genealogy-oriented journal and is a recipient of the 2005
Hackman Research Residency Award. He recently published "The Jews of Sing
Sing."

Members - no charge
Guests are always welcome. Guest fee $5.00

Dennis Rice, President
DRTIGERS@aol.com

Jacqueline Fineblit, Email Editor
jsfine@adelphia.net

submitted by:
Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
President Emerita, JGSPBCI, FL
USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGSPBCI, FL, April Membership Meeting Notice #general

Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
 

Jewish Genealogical Society Palm Beach County, Inc., FL., USA
Please read our website:
http://www.jgspalmbeachcounty.org

Jewish Genealogy Month 2007- March 20-April 18 (Nisan 5767), and Yad Vashem
Names Recovery Month: March-April 2007

Membership meeting: Wednesday, April 11, 2007
Where: South County Civic Center, 16700 Jog Road, Delray Beach, FL
Time: [Please note: SIG will not be held this month]
12:30 PM Brick Wall
Questions will be accepted >from the floor. For further
information about the Brick Wall program or to submit questions in
advance, e-mail Program Chairperson Harvey Brown: tobro4@adelphia.net

1:00 PM Program and brief business meeting

Guest Speaker: Ron Arons
Lecture topic: "The Internet, Beyond Steve Morse and Jewishgen."
The presentation will demonstrate other "best bet" websites that allow
researchers to find many other materials online, including historical
documents, newspapers and articles, living people, maps and photos, foreign
language translators and aids, and more. He provides numerous examples of
how to make the internet work.

Mr. Arons has earned degrees >from Princeton University and the University of
Chicago. He is a member of both the Los Angeles and San Francisco Jewish
Genealogical Societies. As a seasoned genealogist, he has traced his roots
to England, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania. He has given
presentations at the International Association of Jewish Genealogical
Society's annual conferences as well as to local Jewish Genealogical
societies across the country. He has published articles in Avotaynu, the
leading Jewish genealogy-oriented journal and is a recipient of the 2005
Hackman Research Residency Award. He recently published "The Jews of Sing
Sing."

Members - no charge
Guests are always welcome. Guest fee $5.00

Dennis Rice, President
DRTIGERS@aol.com

Jacqueline Fineblit, Email Editor
jsfine@adelphia.net

submitted by:
Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
President Emerita, JGSPBCI, FL
USA


London United Synagogue Burials and Marriage Records (New Resource) #unitedkingdom

N.Landau@...
 

I was just looking at

http://www.jewishgen.org/cemetery/brit/london.html (International Jewish
Cemetery Project).

I happened to notice that >from December 2006 it is possible to locate the
position of a United Synagogue grave if the cemetery, the first and last
name, and the year of death are known.

http://website.usintranet.org.uk/support_services/find_your_family/burial_records

In addition it is now possible to order online copies of marriage
certificates for marriages that took place under the auspices of the Chief
Rabbi >from 1880 to 1906.

http://website.usintranet.org.uk/support_services/find_your_family/marriage_records

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom London United Synagogue Burials and Marriage Records (New Resource) #unitedkingdom

N.Landau@...
 

I was just looking at

http://www.jewishgen.org/cemetery/brit/london.html (International Jewish
Cemetery Project).

I happened to notice that >from December 2006 it is possible to locate the
position of a United Synagogue grave if the cemetery, the first and last
name, and the year of death are known.

http://website.usintranet.org.uk/support_services/find_your_family/burial_records

In addition it is now possible to order online copies of marriage
certificates for marriages that took place under the auspices of the Chief
Rabbi >from 1880 to 1906.

http://website.usintranet.org.uk/support_services/find_your_family/marriage_records

Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland) WEITZMAN (Cracow), WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany),
THALHEIMER (Mainbernheim, Germany), KOHN/WEISSKOPF (Wallerstein and
Kleinerdlingen,Germany), LANDAU (only adopted
on leaving Russia/Belarus or later)/FREDKIN (?)
(Gomel, Mogilev, Chernigov, Russia/Belarus)


PAPIRNE /Stolin family tree #rabbinic

yoni ben-ari <yrcdi@...>
 

In reply to several requests I am inclosing several names of the
PAPIRNE family tree.

The tree which I have has as the most recent member, R' Noach Yosef
PAPIRNE who passed away in 5759 in Jerusalem. He was a Karlin
chosid. His father, Nachman Sofer PAPIRNE (5658-5747) seems to have
been the earliest to have the PAPIRNE name. Nachman's father was
Moshe (5619-5698) ben Noach Yosef ben Naftali ben Yosef ben Yisrael
of Ostrah.

This Yosef ben Yisrael is mentioned both by the PAPIRNE tree and
our tradition as the son-in-law of R' Aharon and Perl (PERLOW) of
Lechowitz.

Yosef's son, Naftali, is listed as having married (his cousin) the
daughter of R' Mordechai ("Hasheni") of Lechowitch.

The son-in-law of the most recent PAPIRNE told me that the name
PAPIRNE has not been in the family many generation but he did not
remember the original name. Does anyone know the family name of the
above Yosef who married R' Aharon of Lechowitch's daughter?

Wishing everyone a Kosher and Happy Pesach

Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic PAPIRNE /Stolin family tree #rabbinic

yoni ben-ari <yrcdi@...>
 

In reply to several requests I am inclosing several names of the
PAPIRNE family tree.

The tree which I have has as the most recent member, R' Noach Yosef
PAPIRNE who passed away in 5759 in Jerusalem. He was a Karlin
chosid. His father, Nachman Sofer PAPIRNE (5658-5747) seems to have
been the earliest to have the PAPIRNE name. Nachman's father was
Moshe (5619-5698) ben Noach Yosef ben Naftali ben Yosef ben Yisrael
of Ostrah.

This Yosef ben Yisrael is mentioned both by the PAPIRNE tree and
our tradition as the son-in-law of R' Aharon and Perl (PERLOW) of
Lechowitz.

Yosef's son, Naftali, is listed as having married (his cousin) the
daughter of R' Mordechai ("Hasheni") of Lechowitch.

The son-in-law of the most recent PAPIRNE told me that the name
PAPIRNE has not been in the family many generation but he did not
remember the original name. Does anyone know the family name of the
above Yosef who married R' Aharon of Lechowitch's daughter?

Wishing everyone a Kosher and Happy Pesach

Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel


Congregation Chasam Sofer #hungary

Marian Brown
 

To all!

I have a mariage certificate dated 26 August 1894 for members of may
family. The rabbi was Adolf/Abraham Tannenbaum, also a relative, and
the ceremony took place at Congregation Chasam Sofer, 8 Clinton Street,
New York City.

I know that the original congregation was Rodeph Sholom, founded in 1842
by German Jews and built in 1853. At some point the German congregation
moved uptown. My relatives were Hungarian Jews. Would anyone know
whether the congregation was reform Orthodox in 1894? Or exactly when
the German Jews move uptown?

Thanks,

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH


Hungary SIG #Hungary Congregation Chasam Sofer #hungary

Marian Brown
 

To all!

I have a mariage certificate dated 26 August 1894 for members of may
family. The rabbi was Adolf/Abraham Tannenbaum, also a relative, and
the ceremony took place at Congregation Chasam Sofer, 8 Clinton Street,
New York City.

I know that the original congregation was Rodeph Sholom, founded in 1842
by German Jews and built in 1853. At some point the German congregation
moved uptown. My relatives were Hungarian Jews. Would anyone know
whether the congregation was reform Orthodox in 1894? Or exactly when
the German Jews move uptown?

Thanks,

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH


Re: GYULA equals.....? #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Just one more on Gyula. Though Julius is considered as the equivalent, Gyula is a truly Hungarian
given name. It was originally a "title", given to the "Number two ruler" in Mongol,Turkic,Khazae,
Hungarian(Magyar), Transylvanian etc Realms. For a fuller reading just "Google" the word.

Robert Neu
Salt Lake City
UJGS President
--- Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: "Pamela Weisberger" <pweisberger@hotmail.com>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: RE:[h-sig] GYULA equals.....?
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:20:59 -0700

to add to the answers on:

can/will someone please advise me as to what the first name GYULA would translate to in English?

The point has been made by many other genners over the years that there are no hard-and-fast
rules when it comes to how our Hungarian ancestors Americanized their names once they moved to
the States. In most cases they arrived with both a Magyar name and a Hebrew or Yiddish one.

I recently heard a story >from a 90 year old cousin who emigrated >from Csa (Transcarpathia) as a
child in 1921. Her father had been taking English lessons >from a local Catholic priest, prior to
moving, and asked the priest to suggest name modifications. "Sandor" became "Alex," "Ferencz"
became "Frances" (but then "Frances" hated the feminine-sounding name once at school and dificed
it to "Frank"), "Marketa" (the cousin relating the story) became "Maragaret," and Anna and Oscar
got to keep their names intact!

On the other hand, my grandmother, Szerena, a lovely Magyar name, became Sadie when her
schoolteacher changed it for her at age 8 in New York City.

I doubt that many "Szerenas" lasted long in the U.S., and even though her Hebrew name was
"Sarah," "Sadie" was a very popular choice back then.

Best to gather as many family anecdotes as you can to discover the many variations of how names
evolved over time.

As for "Gyula," I notice that it is the prefix to several Hungarian towns ("Gyulahaza" for one)
and might have a specific meaning in that context.

Pamela Weisberger
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Hungarian Translation Help #hungary

Larry Kohn <larry@...>
 

I am transcribing the records of Tolcsva, Hungary for the All Hungarian
Database. I have two marriage records for 1845 which are not in the
typical, columnar format. I am not confident I can correctly identify who
is getting married to whom and what is the relationship of the other people
that are mentioned.
I have posted the image of the page in question to ViewMate as file VM7910.
This can be accessed directly by clicking on the following link:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=9710
If someone can help me with this, I would greatly appreciate it.
Please reply off-list if you can help.
Thanks in advance,
Larry Kohn
Reston, Virginia